well, lefties ... I think I'm finally coming over to your side. (R)

[Pepperbelly]

Today was tragic. Beginning to end. Tragic. As one wag once pointed out, someone's playing with my dick and it ain't me.

The certification of the Electoral results --people for whom I have had the utmost respect over many years voted no. My own Congressman ... Vic Snyder ... who I believed was a truly principled man, voted 'no' on the question. I do not understand why.

For those of you who know me, you know that I rarely support symbolic gestures but today ... when they signed off on the EC results, or hid as many did, they pissed all over the right of the people of some teeny bit of confidence that the whole thing isn't rigged from the get-go and that this isn't 1984, 21 years late. But damn it ... why could they not support the challenge. I know it would have been an empty gesture without any consequence in the outcome but Jesus, it's like they're just standing there and watching while the fucking GOP sodomizes the nation without the common courtesy of a reach-around (thanx to R. Lee Ermy for that one in full-metal jacket).

In one of Thomas Harris' books ... I think it was Hannibal, there was some discussion of a painting. Although I do not recall the artist nor the complete title (I think it was the Flaying of St. somebody ... Gregory maybe), it depicted an individual being flayed alive. Lecter pointed out a detail in the painting where Pan assists the process by noting "Look! Helpful Pan brings a bucket of water."

And that was how the Democrats were. Helpful Pan bringing the bucket of water. The useless fucks!

And on Gonzalez ... what's going to happen? Most of the Democrats will vote for the motherfucker. Count on it. They will vote right the fuck for the torture pimp with his slavish sychopancy for the evil bastard for whom he works. Oh ... yeah ... they gave him a "hard" time in the hearings. Hair-plug Biden showed out a little, talking sarcastically and Lahey solemnly intoned about his fucking concerns but when it's all done, they'll fetch the pail of water.

Guys, I have been a hardcore Democrat since 1968 and have stood by the party through thick and thin but now ... I am left to wonder...

What the fuck good are they?

:grr: :grr: :grr:

no offense to baldies. i, too, am a baldie. but what hair i have is down on my shoulders.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

1. You answered your own question

What the fuck good are they, indeed?

They're good for nothing, in my estimation. I lost my faith, something that's sustained me since I first voted in 1968. Today, I didn't watch, because I knew what would happen (one of the virtues of getting older is that there aren't many surprises, so you can do other things). This fascist regime owns those folks who are called "Democrats," and that's all there is to it.

Why is this happening? How did this happen? I guess the theft of the election in 2000 was a big tell, but 9/11 was the best thing that ever happened to these monsters.

In my lifetime, I've never seen anything so blatantly corrupt. I am watching these people use our sacred Constitution to wipe themselves.

I lost my faith. I don't think I'll be taking part in any of it any more.

You said it well, my friend. Kudos to you.

[0007]

47. Organized crime is alive and doing well within the limit of the law.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. You interested in some grassroots work to better the situation?

----------------------------------------------------------------
Election reform can help save this country!
Same day primaries with ranked voting ballots for the Dems, and
THESE reforms for your town, county, and state.
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm

[Pepperbelly]

5. Right now, I don't truly know what I am interested in.

Maybe old Tim Leary had it right. Turn on. Tune in. Drop out.

At this point, I am truly confused. The whole process sickens me and the most attractive thing to me at this moment is playing my guitar, working, living. At this moment, I am whipped. I may feel better tomorrow because we all know how quickly things can change but for now, I am heart-sick and disgusted.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. Well, when you get yer fight back, we'll be here ready to add your

energy to the cause.

*hugs*

[NuttyFluffers]

58. dance the art of sublime cynicism, be taoist.

not everyone can be confucist. not everyone can be perpetually cheerleading do-gooders out to change the world. those who can, awesome, the world really does need more of your type to help put in the elbow grease to fix the world's ills.

but some of us work best as taoists. to travel through sublime cynicism and accomplish passively what confucists accomplish actively. travel your heart-sick and disgust, sprinkle it around, shock some into questioning and rain on others' (preferrably repukes) day. passively lead change through entropy, disillusionment, and disinterest. disrupt the mundane dream people lock themselves into with spontaneous outbursts of what you are feeling. wear away the resistence by flowing through this inner moment.

there's more than one way to fight.

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. You really think that a Repug Congress

and a Repug President are going to a damn thing about election reform? Then I've got a bridge I'd like to sell in Brooklyn.

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. Of course not. Hence the grassroots plan

----------------------------------------------------------------
Election reform can help save this country!
Same day primaries with ranked voting ballots for the Dems, and
THESE reforms for your town, county, and state.
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. I'm all for forming

a viable third party but for me it needs to be something that has a broader representation than the Greens. I love you guys but the mainstream middle American is never going to sign on.

Now if we take the Greens, the Independents and all the disenfranchised Dems, maybe we can come up with something new? Like the Greener Independent Democratic Party or some other better name?

[GreenPartyVoter]

44. I don't want to be mainstream, myself. But I would be happy to form

a coalition with other parties that share some similar goals. And I think that could definitely happen if start working towards proportional representation.

http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm

[radio4progressives]

69. Please be more specific?

What exactly do you mean in reference broader representation than just the Greens? It always makes me wonder when people say the Green party won't be signed on by Mainstream America, begs the question for me, does Mainstream America know anything about the Green party? And it's funny, i think of mainstream America as the working class - (i never consider Corporate reps and their CEO's as representative of mainstream America) - so it seems to me that Greens represent working class America very well, they just don't know anything about the party to sign on or not, imo.

i don't think Greens have ever been given a "fair hearing" - the Dems the Reeps make sure that they're kept out of debates, so Americans can never hear their platform, can never hear Greens frame the issues - never given media coverage.

That's gotta change, whether people sign on to the Greens or not. We need to build a grassroots party to replace the Do Nothings but Roll Over for the Reeps Democratic Party, it could be the Greens or a different Populist party, like maybe the Progressive Democrats of America for instance. (PDA).

[sendero]

3. Over the last few days...

... I'm starting to come to a realization that makes me ill.

I'm starting to understand what Ralph Nader (who I loathe, check my archives) means when he says "there's no difference".

Sure, MAYBE we wouldn't have started this horrible war, and MAYBE we wouldn't have trampled all over the constitution - but that MAYBE just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

In my sad opinion we have another crisis also. A huge proportion of DU is acting like a bunch of starved and abused dogs. When the master throws them a single bit of kibble - they go crazy, thinking the long drought is over and more kibble is coming.

It's not coming - because our Congressmen and women (except for a heroic few) are a bunch of comfortable lap dogs just looking to keep their cushy ass jobs.

Fuck them all.

[Child_Of_Isis]

4. Same here.

Fruitless or not, I would have liked to have seen them stand with Boxer. And the Dem Senators to have voted against shrub. And I honestly believe that all Dems should have been there, even Kerry. If so, I would have backed them all until death. I would have cried and proudly claimed them as my party. Again, they would get my money and my time. But now I cannot. And so I move on...without them. I don't give up loyalty very often, but when I do, it's gone for good.

[pretzel4gore]

9. many of them voted for bush too, even kerry (the kudos, the kudos!)

thank god for global warming!

[Zhade]

31. Indeed. I would have re-registered as a Dem.

Now, I'm going left (Green) - or, to be more precise, they're going right while I stand still.

[kodi]

6. yes, paraphrasing capt Renault "I'm shocked to see gambling going on"

pepperbelly, i feel ya' dog.

the democratic party does not speak for me any longer. if the entire leadership died tonight the only reason i would travel to their graves would be to piss on them.

its nothing but kabuki theater on the Potomac.

at least the GOP is honest about their dishonesty.

[Phoebe_in_Sydney]

68. Kabuki theater on the Potomac

... sums it up with more panache than any other phrase I've seen.

Count me in as another who thinks Wes Clark is the best chance the Dems (and US democracy) have got for 2008.

At least if they let him stand, he'll fight.

Of course, if they desert him before the battle starts like they did last year then it'll be politics as usual. Some loser who's paid the right dues will go through the motions and get to put on his/her CV that they won their party's nomination for the Presidency. And lost.

If the party deserts Clark after the battle starts, that's fine. I think he's the kind of leader who'd rally the people and if the general public gets involved, the party machinery becomes irrelevant.

If Kerry had refused to accept electoral fraud -- and called the GOP on it -- maybe Americans would've started behaving like Ukrainians. And some in the media would've broken their gag orders, like Ukrainian reporters did.

But you need to be a leader for people to follow. You've got to be prepared to risk defeat. Seems not one Dem Senator apart from Boxer has the guts for that.

Kerry not only didn't want to fight, he didn't even want to be there at the final battle. Still can't believe he's in Palestine. Hopefully he'll give Mustafa Barghouti some timely tips on quick, painless concession speech-making.

[zeemike]

7. I agree with all of that

But I will not give into it by just going away.
We have to think of other options like recalling our elected officials weather they are Democrats or not and perhaps begging Nader, Dean The Black caucus or anyone that we can to ditch the party and start a new one.

[Cheswick2.0]

61. starting a new party will get you no where unless it is a cenrist party

Taking over the structure of the existing Democratic party is a much more effective and obtainable goal. They already have access to all the state ballots and half the voters.

[DistressedAmerican]

10. I'm bald too

and I for one do NOT respect Rugs, plugs, or Repugs!

[Trillo]

11. Now we know who supports democracy, and who does not.

I don't know what good it will do with a fraud-filled election system. If you can't trust that the votes were counted properly, then how will we ever get those who don't support democracy out of power?

I suppose there's always the general strike, but there's going to have to be some powerful catalyst to get most people worked up enough to agree on that. Outside of that, how do you change your government peacefully when the voting system is rigged?

I wonder when they're going to start being honest with us and tell us that our votes no longer matter? Why keep up the charade of democracy, if voting is rigged; why not just tell us the truth?

[Q]

12. We're not 'lefties'...

...we're Democrats with verve!

I started a thread BEFORE the vote...predicting that it would be nothing but a staged event. I called it Theater for the Masses.

One could tell by their language and gestures of capitulation that they planned on doing nothing more that putting on a show and the voters be damned.

"Lefties" don't complain and protest just for the fun of it. They have valid complaints in a country where redress of greivances has become impossible and protests are thought of as 'focus groups' by both parties.

[greenohio]

15. Thats for sure.

[Zhade]

32. Holy -- are you actually agreeing with Q?!

Things HAVE changed! :D

[eleny]

13. Well - who among them gave us a reason to support them?

Only a few, right? Tubbs-Jones, Boxer and the others.

The time will come when we get those donation requests. I don't live in California or Ohio. But I know who's going to get my support.

I'm barely hanging onto the Dem Party. I'll give it more time. But hanging in there doesn't mean I can't support other groups like the Greens. What will happen is that my resources will spread farther than the Dems. After all, they told me they don't need me, didn't they?

[IndianaGreen]

18. don't forget Cynthia McKinney

who the DLC wanted defeated in 2002 as much as AIPAC and the repukes did.

Nice to have Cynthia back in Congress!

[eleny]

24. Yes it is!

Thanks for the reminder!

[Rowdyboy]

14. I share your disgust, Pepper but please don't tell me you've

given up on your cousin, Wes. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater!

[Pepperbelly]

41. to tell you the truth, friend Rowdyboy, I wish Wesley would stay out.

I hate to see him dragged through the raw sewage that is a modern American political campaign for national office. He has not been a politician his entire life and to listen to those vicious bastard make up shit to slander him with is fucked up. They don't deserve, from Ed Wood, when Lagosi spoke of Karloff, to smell his shit. He doesn't deserve that kind of character assasination and I sincerely hope that he kicks back and enjoys retirement.

He probably won't. He's a warrior first and I suppose he feels the need for battle and for putting things right. What worries me is that his own party does not have the stomach for dealing with these rat bastards in the gop, so it would be him and us and the party organizatiion (DNC) staying in the rear when the shit starts.

[Clark2008]

51. Pepper

I trust our Wesley.

I he's a go, then so am I. He won't get hurt because he IS said Warrior. If the Dems don't have the stomach for it, the people do. We start this now.

He's your kin and you're protecing him. But, my son NEEDS him.

[Pepperbelly]

52. friend Rowdyboy ...

You have to know though that if the going gets tough, those professional pols that run things would leave him to twist slowly in the win. It's going into battle with the general staff all ready to bolt at the first clash of arms.

[lastknowngood]

16. My party has left me. I stand alone. The only solace is that

"when peaceful revolution becomes impossible
violent revolution becomes inevitable"
It may take time and I mean generations but eventually the slaves
will rise against the master.

[Totally Committed]

55. Ronald Reagan was once asked why he left the Democratic Party...

... and he said, "I didn't leave the Party, it left me."

It's a sad day when you can understand where Ronald Reagan might be coming from... <shudder>

TC

[grasswire]

17. did we do all we could to give them cover?

I wasn't protesting in the street. I was at home, watching television. Only a hundred people were in the street in Washington.

That's the difference between us and the Ukraine. And I guess that's why the Ukrainian election was overturned.

[Cheswick2.0]

63. We were in the street for years

There has been a massive effort to protest ever since the inauguration of 2001. Tell me once when our elected officials responded.
People are tired and worn out from protesting with no response from democratic leaders.

[cally]

20. Well, I'm a Green now...on the local level

I don't support the Democratic Party. I'm pragmatic enough to support Dems for national office but I'm going to work supporting Greens at the local level.

I will work to support Sen. Boxer and Rep. Woolsey. Both are courageous.

[Bouncy Ball]

21. When injustice becomes law

resistance becomes duty.

[Zhade]

35. Man, I love that quote. Inspiring.

NT!

[formernaderite]

23. One of the reasons I really support terms limits...

..is we don't have to watch the aging dinosaurs pay for hair plugs. No, seriously....the group we have to deal with make me ill on a weekly basis. Years ago, I worked on the Hill, until I literally couldn't physically take it.
It's nice to think these politicians really believe in the lofty positions they take. They don't in the philisophical sense. It all becomes a step in retaining the momentum of power. I've seen men(back then there were few women) cut each other to shreds on the floor and leave to go to a chummy dinner afterwards. It's just a job, and it's their job to beat the other team.
From time to time you'll get a politician who promises to self term limit themselves...but once they get there they just love to see themselves as indispensable. Bullshit, no one in any industry outside the hill believes this.

Today should prove we need to vote them out and get some fresh braincells working. Not because I expected this to change anything, but once I heard these blowhards on the floor stating the obvious but then refusing to vote for it.....well it was business as usual, except the men and women had full make-up on for the cameras.

[hansolsen]

25. Dem Party like am old alchy - needs to hit bottom with a thud before cure

will take.

I sleep with Boxer tonight, the rest of them can go to hell.

[janx]

26. I'm not a lefty, but I want to remind you, Pepperbelly, of your

simile of the expressions on the faces of the dogs after they nailed the chicken from the table...

It was more meaningful and prophetic than you know.

It's not a question of left and right; it's a matter of right and wrong.

Cheers. :toast:

[shance]

30. Janx, you are a DUer after my own heart.

Beautifully said***

Thanks.

[no name no slogan]

27. National Democratic Party == fuX0r3D

thankfully I live in a state (MN) where the state party has a long tradition of being further to the left of the national party. In fact, our state Democratic-Farmer-Labor party (DFL) is the only coalition Democratic party in the nation. It was formed in 1946 when the Farmer-Labor Party merged with a "third party"-- the MN Democratic Party. If not for the merger, MN would not have a Democratic Party.

I'm staying active at the local and state level, as we've suffered far too much under the Republican/Ventura malaise of the last decade. But I will NOT support a DNC who believes that corporate cash matters more than standing up for the TRUTH.

[Zhade]

36. OMFG - NNNS iZ l33t!

Heh, thanks for the post, made me grin. :)

[BrklynLiberal]

28. My feelings put into words much better than I could have...

Thank you.

[Zhade]

29. Welcome aboard, but most of us are in reality moderates, not lefties.

I know it pisses off the DLC rightists when I say that, but nonetheless it's true.

Great post.

[Debs]

33. Well

I'm a lefty not a moderate

[Zhade]

34. That's awesome by me...I'm just too lazy to be a radical.

Wish I had more courage to really commit - I have to admit that today's performance (excepting the good House members and Boxer!) kinda sucker-punched me a little. Gave me a fleeting hope, which I think hurts more than not hoping at all.

[Zhade]

37. Okay, PB. I give. What does "(R)" mean?

NT!

[Pepperbelly]

40. rated 'R' for language.

Don't want to make the kiddes' ear bleed, ya know.

[Zhade]

45. Ah! I thought maybe it signaled a rant or something.

NT!

[KnowerOfLogic]

39. I too have been a life-long Dem, but i voted Nader in 2004; i was

really close to not voting for dems in 2002 because of the IWR vote and the way dems had rolled over for Bush since 9-11 (and before), but i held my nose and voted for them. But when the DNC and dem primary voters chose Kerry as the nominee I knew that the democratic party no longer represented me. And btw, i agree w/ another poster on this thread wrt the fact that we are not all 'lefties.'

[dbt]

42. Right ON, BrotherMan!

I am DONE with being a Democrat. Yesterday just nailed the coffin lid shut for me: buncha timid sissies (EXCEPT FOR SOME WOMEN!!!) who would not stand up against what they all know happened in that supposed election.

Vic Snyder owes us all an explanation, too.

I will never work for, or support, another Democratic Party candidate for any office, anywhere. My vote will now be cast against the greater of the two evils.

I will be bending the ears of every Black officeholder or party operative that I can find, asking them "How ya like them Democrats NOW?"

It's way past time for a third party in this country and we have the Democrats to thank for that.

:argh:
dbt

[Pepperbelly]

43. Exactly, home skillet! Helpful Vic brings a pail of water. nt

[Mutley]

46. great full metal jacket reference...

one of my all time favorite movies...

[IrateCitizen]

48. What good are they?

Sadly, the majority of them are really no fucking good. Then again, if you've labored under the assumption that the Democratic Party is or really was a "party of the people", you've labored under a false impression.

The Party did have its moments, I'll readily admit that. The New Deal was probably the closest we ever came to actually having a major party left-of-center in the country's history. However, the path of the party from 1980-onward has largely been one of accomodation of corporate interests at the expense of the common man. They just would rather use lubricant to sodomize us, as opposed to the GOP, who goes in dry and without warning.

The Democrats are, at heart, a status quo party. They aren't interested in rolling back the current path of corporatism or a militarist and bellicose foreign policy. The only way they will possibly participate in such actions is if they literally see people coming for them with torches and pitchforks. Meaningful change will be initiated from the same place it always has been -- outside of the political system. Change has to be forced upon the system, it will not be started from within.

The conclusions you are currently reaching are painful. Things won't get any better on that end, I'm afraid. However, once you stop placing your hope in the hands of self-interested politicians who consistently disappoint you, and instead start to place your hope in yourself and other like-minded people, it can be both comforting and empowering.

I'm coming to realize that the biggest mistake among progressive and leftist elements this past election was to stop the momentum of organizing against the war and against the Bush administration, and to throw that energy toward supporting John Kerry, when Kerry's main arguments were ones of difference of style, not serious substantive differences. Even if Kerry would have won, there would have still been little to celebrate. And we lost the momentum we had either way you look at it.

My advice to you is that if you want to get involved politically, look to the local, county and state level. Get involved where you can still find Democrats who actually stand for what they believe in, and where your efforts really make a difference. The Democratic Party, on a national level, is a sinking ship. It will still sink even if you join it.

[theHandpuppet]

62. Excellent post!

I heartily agree. To think of the time/money/energy this household spent on the 2004 campaign just makes me sick to my stomach. Well, the next Dem presidential candidate might as well pass up this house when he or she comes knocking with hat in hand. There will be no more from this house.

Count me and my SO as more lifelong Dems now looking for a viable alternative.

[Adelante]

49. Useless fucks is right

It's not easy to say after 35 years a Dem, but they showed themselves yesterday to be useless fucks, all right.

[HollyC]

50. Flock of Penguins

The Dems currently remind me of nature documentaries I've seen of a flock of penguins standing at the edge of an ice floe scared to go into the water because they know there are killer whales about. If they all jump in together, their individual chances of survival skyrocket. But what they do instead is push & shove until some hapless witless penguins get shoved in- and if the shoved ones bob back up okay without being eaten, then they all jump in!

If they continue to act like prey animals, you don't have to imagine too hard to see bones & blood all over the place.

Hats off to Barabara Boxer & those few upstanding members of the House who felt the right to vote is worth four hours of our national time.

By his absence, Kerry squandered millions & millions & millions of dollars, hopes, wishes, dream, effort, blood, sweat, tears, treasure, opportunity... "Shameful" doesn't even come close. Why would you work that hard- and he really did- and not "get it?" in the end.

One wonders.

Traitors, collaborators, Skull & Bones? Collusion? Incompetent? Inept? Take your pick.

Here's my advice, "Democrats":

Get some balls. Run Wesley Clark for President with Barbara Boxer or Hillary Clinton as VP in 08, period. Never, ever, ever let us hear from John Kerry & John Edwards again. Use the filibuster to your best advantage. Get rid of Terry Mac immediately. Don't backslide into GOP lite. Get yourselves a reliable media outlet to counter Faux. Try acting together- it was extremely pathetic that you sent Barbara Boxer out there on the ice all alone- ALL OF YOU SHOULD HAVE SIGNED IN UNISON.

And once again, don't distance yourself from actual patriots like Michael Moore. Its called free speech- you should be defending it.

Wesley Clark is the sole reason I would even DREAM of ever supporting Democrats again.

[Totally Committed]

54. Wes Clark is the answer...

Especially now that we know that the question is: WHAT GOOD IS THIS WIMP-ASS, WEAK-AS-DISHWATER, BUNCH OF QUIVERING, "BALL-LESS" COWARDS CALLED THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO US ANYWAY?

HollyC just posted this: "Wesley Clark is the sole reason I would even DREAM of ever supporting Democrats again." I cannot tell you how much (completely) I agree with this statement.

Unfortunately, by forcing Sen. Boxer to stand alone, they have positively poisoned her viability for higher office. She and her running-mate would be batted around like a sorry pinata if she were chosen as a VP candidate now. She gave up a lot to stand up for us, and after Wes Clark and the House Members (that stood in numbers greater than ONE), and Barbara Boxer are the ONLY Democrats left that will get my vote or support in any way.

I have to say I would understand his sitting it out from here on. The Democrats used him for a punching bag during the Primaries, then like a Kleenex during the GE campaign. He owes them nothing, at this point. But, he's got a big heart, a great mind, and courage up the wahzoo, AND he looks upon what he is doing as serving his country, so he just might run again... So, if Wes decides to bravely go again, I will support him to the hilt.

Selfishly, I just wish he'd form a VIABLE Third Party, at this point. He's got "Red State" manners and charm (I can't tell you how many of my Indy and Repub friends and family were ready to vote for him...), but is an actual (if you read his position papers) LIBERAL. I think he could make a "go" of it where Nader coul not. I am just SO SICK AND DISGUSTED with the Democrats right now I could scream.

Anyway... WES CLARK is the way to go if we really mean business next time out.

TC

[ulysses]

53. we all have our breaking point, Pepper.

I haven't decided what I'm going to do either, other than be glad that we put McKinney back in the House down here.

[Mend]

56. Divide and conquer, is that the plan?

We are almost there, a bigger, stronger coalition of progressives. The repukes would like nothing better than for us to splinter into a zillion little flaccid factions. We have to eat this like everything else because it is a two party system and change must come from within. When I hear anything else, I think 'troll".

[ulysses]

57. we are?

We are almost there, a bigger, stronger coalition of progressives.

Where? Tell me so that I may join them.

[Mend]

59. BuzzFlash...A Gathering Swarm...Mother Jones...Todd Gitlin

If you think angry little groups who sneer and get even with Democrats will do a better job, so be it. I don't think so.

[deutsey]

64. I do think that angry big groups who sneer and put pressure

on the Democrats and the system in general are our only hope.

That's what the early labor movement did prior to the '30s. They didn't sit around and wait for the Democrats to save them (in fact, many were socialist and communists before those became dirty words in America). They organized on their own, took to the streets, agitated, grew a base, and finally the Democrats came around to them (more or less) under FDR. Of course, the near total collapse of our economic system helped labor's cause, too...

[Totally Committed]

65. No offense, but if you believe this...

... you are delusional.

But, I support your right to believe this.

TC

[Pepperbelly]

66. Troll?

Are you making some sort of accusation.?

[Totally Committed]

67. You must be young...

I have been working HARD for change within the Democratic Party for 46 years (started stuffing envelopes for JFK when I was 9), and even I have had it now. You must be younger, and not as beaten-down as I feel right now.

So, bless your heart, you just keep plugging away. Maybe YOU will nake a differenece.

After 46 years of working my fingers to the bone marching, protesting, campaigning, petitioning, you name it! -- I feel I have mattered not one iota today. I feel all that hard work has been squandered by this Party.

Just please... not everyone who is disillusioned or disagrees with you is a troll. That is a derogutory term that I see bandied about WAY too often here. Disagreement is the last bastion of Freedom. While we still have any rights at all, let's use 'em.

Thanks,

TC

[Cheswick2.0]

60. You don't have to be a leftie or go green to think this way

It is not a matter or right left or center. It is a matter of right or wrong. voting for a states electors when it is clear that there was fraud is not a "centrist thing", it's just a gutless or non-comprehension thing. I think our representatives in government need to be reminded who they work for and that they can lose their jobs.
Party reform is the answer. The beltway insiders have to lose their jobs in large enough numbers that the party can be taken back for regular people. Bottom up grassroots organization is not just for the left. Populists are not just liberals.

[Tinoire]

70. I always knew you would

Always knew you were already on our side Pepperbelly just by reading your posts and seeing what you believe in; your sincerity and real concern always shone through.

:hug: to you.