I saw Howard Dean this afternoon

[Eloriel]

In fact, I had my arm around him, and his around me.

It was a wonderful afternoon. He is in Atlanta for the DNC Regional Conference (who knew?) and spent a couple of hours with Georgia for Democracy, the wonderful organization that morphed from the equally if not even more wonderful Georgia for Dean organization.

It lifte my spirits considerably and gave me a dose of hope. I'll try to remember some of the things he said -- some of them aren't new, some of them were (to me at least).

He's still a fighter, and his opening words were to that effect (don't remember the exact quote). He said he hasn't deciced to run for DNC chair quite yet and that has called every DNC member (tho because of telephone tag hasn't talked to each one yet) and that he was getting GREAT response from people outside Washington, and not very good support from people inside the beltway. He said that if people wanted to write to party members IN THEIR STATE they could, especially if you know them personally, but by extension discouraged blasting party members in other states.

He said that people ask him what his "Southern Strategy" would be and (with considerable animation) he said, "That's easy. The first thing on the list is just two words: SHOW UP." He went on to say that had he won the nomination he would NOT have written Georgia off (he always was VERY impressed with the GA organization, and IMO for good reason), and that it's important to show up in states that you maybe know you're unlikely to win (like most of the South) for several reasons (trying to remember here):

* It excites the base and that helps candidates down ballot
* People who won't vote for you still respect you more: "Well, I might not agree with him, but at least he had the guts (or whatever) to come tell us what he stands for."
* It lessens the "INTENSITY" of the opposition. (This made perfect sense as he said it, but at the moment is a hazy point. Perhaps I'll capture itsessence again later, and be able to elaborate.)

He spoke about the need for voting reform, including the need for nationwide standards for federal elections, as well as electing Dems to the SoS positions, making sure they're not appointed by Governors (as is the case in FL), having a set of ethical guidelines for SoS (which would include non-partisanship and no conflicts of interest), etc.

He spoke highly of Instant Runoff Voting and how it changes the tone of a race because you don't want to offend anyone who MIGHT list you as their 2nd favorite candidate so you don't go bashing ANY of the candidates.

He spoke of some of the things he would do for the party as DNC chair, and he spoke about some of the things he'll (we'll) do in DFA if he's not. (Go, Howard!)

One of the things I love about him is his interest in listening and hearing The People. He spoke about 10, maybe 15 minutes, and then opened the floor up to questions and comments and spent the rest of his time interacting with the folks who were there. He is still as down to earth, as real, as bluntly honest, as purely wonderful (IMO) as ever.

And it was wonderful to see him, but it was also wonderful for me to see some of the friends I made in that organization and to make a couple of new ones. In fact, it made me realize that I NEED to become involved in that group again, for my own benefit. These are simply wonderful people. Everyday, bright, zany, terrific, normal, honest-to-God liberal (mostly ) people. Folks who believe as I do for the most part, folks who know the truth when they hear it, folks who share my values and interests and care about the country as much as I do if not more. Real people. My people. So I'm gonna spend more time with them.

I've just gotten back, after dinner with one of my special Dean friends (to keep me out of rush hour traffic before heading home), and I notice what seems to be a group of anti-Dean threads. Bullshit on all of them, unread. I'm so sick of the lies told about him, the miscahracterizations, the misunderstandings. The lies and so forth are bad enough, but what's really disappointing are the otherwise good DUers who parrot them, THINKING they understand Dean but who in reality don't have a clue. Very disappointing. But what can you do? There will always be unwitting dunces and dupes, I suppose. DU's got its share of them too.

[newsguyatl]

1. i'd planned on coming

but couldn't at the last minute... so glad you were able to meet him again!

[Eloriel]

18. I was actually hoping I'd see you there

But maybe I will soon. I miss you.

:hi:

[Cha]

2. Good for you, Eloriel! Some of us

could really use a shot of Dean's arm around us(and vice versa) ..right now..I'm happy that you got to be there and talk to him.

I think whether Dean gets the DNC Chair or not..that he will continue to be a leader and strong force in America. And I'm so glad he's out there.

Thanks for your riveting report!

[madfloridian]

3. His Southern Strategy: "Show Up!" I love it.

That is a beautiful story, and thanks so much for sharing it. It is very ugly here today, very childish.

[Cha]

5. Me, too! I loved that! This thread is the prize

we get for all the negativity we had to put up with regarding one of our leading Dems.

[Eloriel]

19. Thanks, mad.

It was a great day. It was especially good for me because I've been depressed (a little or a lot) for weeks now, and this helped a bit to lift my vision.

I don't think I'm even going to read the Dean trash threads. Bah, who needs it?

[madfloridian]

25. This will be on C-Span Sunday. 6:30 and 9:30, last I heard.

The conference part that is. I think they are allowing most of that time slot.

[janx]

36. Morning or evening?

?

[madfloridian]

43. Evening, I think. Check out the MyDD blog.

:hi:

[janx]

44. Thank you!

:hi:

[ChiciB1]

87. Did you find out AM or PM

I don't know what MyDD blog is????

[janx]

91. Not yet, but if you tune in early, CSPAN gives you the

agenda for the day, basically.

[ChiciB1]

97. Thanks....

I watch C-Span a lot. Guess I'll check it out tomorrow, they'll give a heads-up about it. Actually, WE could check the web site, huh???

Ah, Drain Bamage, I wonder about myself sometimes!

[NoPasaran]

100. Here's a link

http://www.mydd.com/

[calimary]

34. So simple. Two words. "Show Up!"

Another two: "He's BRILLIANT!"

I needed to re-read this also, for a shot in the arm. But I'm still feeling a bit of the leftover cheer from Barbara Boxer Day yesterday (Thursday) when she, MY Senator, boldly stood up and alongside John Conyers and the rest in the House who cried foul. A party with people like Howard Dean and Barbara Boxer need not worry about being written off.

Thanks for posting this, Eloriel. I lapped up every word. Again.

[NMDemDist2]

4. I didn't support the good Doctor in the primaries (I'm a Kerry fan all the

way) but I have already contacted my local party to support Dean in the DNC chair position

he would be a wonderful chairman and lead the party in the correct direction IMHO

glad you had a great day!

[janx]

6. Perfect timing, Eloriel!

Thanks for taking the time to post about what happened. I have so many questions.

[ClarkUSA]

13. Good for you, Eloriel...I support Dean for DNC Chairman

I'll call my local Dem officials on Monday. By the way, I feel the same way about the anti-Clark folks as you do about the anti-Dean foks. Well-said.

[FarLeftRage]

7. Thanks for sharing this

About this:

"I notice what seems to be a group of anti-Dean threads. Bullshit on all of them, unread. I'm so sick of the lies told about him, the miscahracterizations, the misunderstandings. The lies and so forth are bad enough, but what's really disappointing are the otherwise good DUers who parrot them, THINKING they understand Dean but who in reality don't have a clue. Very disappointing. But what can you do? There will always be unwitting dunces and dupes, I suppose. DU's got its share of them too."

Most, if not all of these "DUers" are on my ignore list and sooner or later they expose themselves for the hate they have and get tombstoned.
I have also noticed they live and breathe their hate for Howard Dean... kind of like a sick, obssesive stalker and they only post whenever Dean is mentioned... they never post in the lounge or any of the other forums.

[w13rd0]

10. Almost like the...

..."Clenis and Hitlery" obsession types. Maybe it's something chenical. Or as Zinn put it on The Daily Show last night..."narcotics"...

[FarLeftRage]

26. Bingo!!

You've got the idea.

[Pharaoh]

14. You go girl!

I DO BELIEVE!!!!!!

:dem:

[FarLeftRage]

29. Actually, I'm a guy.

Thanks for believing.

[Eloriel]

21. Is this really true?

I have also noticed they live and breathe their hate for Howard Dean... kind of like a sick, obssesive stalker and they only post whenever Dean is mentioned... they never post in the lounge or any of the other forums.

If so, I think you could make a good case for them being disruptors, if you can document it well enough and send it to the mods or admin or both. Or at least if *I* were admin I'd consider it that.

[madfloridian]

23. I know who is meant, but no way to prove it.

There is a group which does it to Clark supporters, and a group which does it to Dean supporters.

[janx]

31. And then there are many people who come to DU

to stir up a firestorm by posting flamebait threads.

The intensely partisan jump into these threads without thinking and nurture them.

[FarLeftRage]

40. Yes, Eloriel it is true...

If I had the time and patience to do this documentation, I would.

Ever since I posted about my trip to Dean Headquarters back in September, 2003 I was attacked for mentioning Dean's name and one even cyberstalked me.

So, I took it upon myself to start an ignore list and I noticed that most if not all of these "DUers" were indeed the same group.

I also noticed by now that most of the more nastier anti-Dean types were being tombstoned and still are...

[Maat]

72. I've been noticing the negative stuff about Dean too.

Anymore, I hang out in the DFA DU Group, along with my other favorites. I only look at a Dean Thread while scrolling down the Main Page when it looks like this one did - as a special account of a meeting, speech, etc.

[Eloriel]

75. Oh, THANKS for the reminder.

I'll have to spend more time there myself.

[H2O Man]

80. Dean remains an unresolved issue

in the republican theater. It remains an extremely important goal for the administration to try to totally discredit Dean, especially before he takes a position of authority & respect in the democratic party.

I started two threads in the past month; both actually in the last 48 hours. Per chance they may bear some relationship to the issue of Dean. The first was about the British policy of internment & torture in Northern Ireland. This is the exact policy, and the exact tactics, with absolutely the exact tortures, that we see as the Rumsfeld/Gonzales "policy" in the Middle East. (I urge people to read "Alberto Gonzales vs Bobby Sands" on GD: politics; it explains the relationship between Blair & Bush.) One of the things that should stand out, perhaps especially so to older DUers who remember Fred Hampton etc, is that those with ideas are more of a target than those with weapons.

My next thread was in regard to the likelihood of a military draft in the next 12 to 18 months, and the need for people to begin to organize and prepare to help young adults file as conscientious objectors. And I urge parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents, teachers, etc -- meaning the 'older" generation(s), to help organize this.

Because the truth is, there are very few people in the House or Senate that dare to do battle with the beast we call the Bush Administration. They will not protect you, your sibling, your son, daughter, or the young people in your extended family or neighborhood. But there are a lot of people who will wait, like bumps on a log (though they may be vocal bumps) until that draft is firmly in place. And don't think for a minute that this administration cares in the least about the flag-draped coffins of your children. Not in the least.

As democrats, we hoped for a high turn-out of youth in the November election. They have more at stake than the rest of us. Most of our lives have past, while most of theirs should be before them. When Dean was the candidate, he was able to reach young Americans, He was able to excite them. His words light a fire. His ideas were powerful in a way that reached the youth in a manner that neither John Kerry or John Edwards could.

I like both Kerry and Edwards. A lot. But I am convinced they mainly appealed to those young people from wealthy backgrounds. There's nothing wrong with that. But they didn't connect with those young people from the middle class, that see their future becoming bleak as Bush rampages. They didn't connect with those young people who live in Fred Hampton's old neighborhood. And, after the Ohio vote theft, even those young people who believed in Kerry and Edwards are seriously questioning the crooked system that denies their vote its true value.

So the last thing this administration wants is Howard Dean coming back on the scene. Howard Dean who opposed the Iraqi invasion from Day 1. Howard Dean, who can communicate the measure of thought, and the power of ideas. Howard Dean, who can help young people compare ideas, to understand options, and to say "NO!" to a draft. The truth is that we are confronted by an administration that seeks to destroy ideas.

[DFLforever]

86. You should start a thread with this post:

"o the last thing this administration wants is Howard Dean coming back on the scene. Howard Dean who opposed the Iraqi invasion from Day 1. Howard Dean, who can communicate the measure of thought, and the power of ideas. Howard Dean, who can help young people compare ideas, to understand options, and to say "NO!" to a draft. The truth is that we are confronted by an administration that seeks to destroy ideas."

Dean the man of ideas as DANGER and Dean and the young.

[H2O Man]

88. Thank you.

I must be honest and say that at first, I did not see Howard Dean as being as powerful as others did. My conservative republican brother told me that this was the guy that could cut into Bush's support with a significant amount of moderate republicans and fiscal conservatives. All of my nieces and nephews told me to listen closely to his message. I am an old man, who remembers Eugene McCarthey and others of the similar cloth. (Of course, when I looked at John Kerry, I saw Adlai Stevenson's image updated.)

I came to see that this administration fears Howard Dean for the same reasons they feared Robert Kennedy. So we hear silly things like, "He's really conservative," as if any adult human being is so shallow that they can be defined by a single word. Dean, like Kennedy, has some values that appeal to conservatives. But he's not about conserving the "business as usual" that defines the bumps on the log in Washington today.

There are those who point out the progress made this week with the business on the voting issue. Again: Malcolm X spoke of EXACTLY this issue, including the law passed in the late 1800s to contest the results from states with fraud, in 1965. So 40 years later, people in congress take that first step. I say thank God for Howard Dean. We don't have 40 years to sit idle and wait for some decency to take root in Washington. We need voices like Robert and Malcolm. I ask you, what would happen to a young Muhammad Ali today? If a young Islamic athlete were to say, "No!" to a draft and a war in the Middle East?

[mattclearing]

101. You are dead on right on all counts.

And everyone had a hand and an interest in destroying Dean. Dean threatened to split up the media oligopolies...so of course the producers of the tv news shows went overboard on the Scream speech.

The Bush Administration had a plan to deal with Dean, which would have painted him as soft on defense. However, a Clark sign-on would have put a severe dent in that strategy, as it would with the liberal Northeasterner strategy they used against Kerry and surely would have at least attempted to use on Dean.

The other Democrats felt betrayed by Dean because he blew up their spot on the war. They felt that voting for war in Iraq was a litmus test for national security competency, and Dean also felt that way, but correctly (as Al Gore so aptly noted) chose to oppose it, not rubberstamp it blindly because it would put him in a rough spot in the general election.

Dean has an unquantifiable degree of power in that he is prone to random acts of candor and common sense. Republicans had this problem a while back with John McCain, who since seems to have fallen in line.

It will be interesting to see if Dean can pull his party from the brink of appeasement and cobble together a worthy opposition.

I am glad to see from Eloriel's post that he plans to do what he is going to do whether from the DNC or DFA. I plan to stick with him regardless.

[H2O Man]

103. I agree.

It's funny, I had been an early Clark supporter .... since long before he entered the race. One can only speculate, but a Dean-Clark ticket would have been powerful. And still could be.

I fully supported Kerry-Edwards. I honestly believe that they won. But the democratic party can simply not afford to run Adlai Stevenson a second time. We do not have the luxury of time. We do not need a four-year plan -- we need a "right now" plan, a let's do it today, here and now emergency plan. I think that is what Howard Dean represents.

[Zhade]

112. The Bobby Sands thread is fantastic.

And this post is, as well.

[H2O Man]

116. Thank you, Zhade

A young lady from Ireland had asked me to write a thread that explained where the policy of internment & torture actually comes from. The British participation in Bush's war of aggression is not limited to the few thousand troops that are visible. It is from those forces that remain invisible.

[Zhade]

117. No, thank you - it was very illuminating!

I've admired your clear and concise writing for a while now, and that thread is superb. I only hope it doesn't fall off the page!

[politicasista]

8. He is right.

Unfortunately, the Kerry campaign didn't listen when we told them not to write off the South. Just another of their many patheic mistakes.:mad:

[imenja]

9. hearing from the people is what distinguished the Dean campaign

They used the INTERNET as a two way street, to hear ideas from people as well as disseminate their own. For Kerry, it seemed to be primarily about raising funds and recruiting volunteers and not listening to his supporters.

[janx]

51. Yes, and Dean writes about this in his latest book.

The other campaigns copied a lot of what the Dean (and now DFA) effort was using, except for one thing:

the bottom-up nature of the campaign.

[Eloriel]

77. He touched on that a bit today too

probably in response to some question or another.

He repeated something that was posted from an interview elsewhere in the thread, that we had such a great grassroots organization, and really had a terrific comment that the more power you give away (by allowing the grassroots to do their own thing), the more you have, and that the people in Washington don't understand that.

I would have liked to have told him that his interest in returning power to the people is the very reason that he'll (IMO) never be DNC chair, if the party bigwigs have anything to say about it. I'm not sure he understands that, frankly.

[janx]

82. Maybe Howard Dean has faith in human nature, or at least

more faith in human nature than you or I have right now. He might believe that he can get this point across to the D.C. contingent, and he may be right. It sounds naive in a political context, but sometimes great things happen when we choose to believe in the better aspects of people. It certainly proved true to a great extent in his primary campaign.

He knows how he got his backside kicked in that process; that much is clear from what I've read in his latest book and from various interviews I've read and listened to.

Ironically, the DNC chair decision is going to determine a lot about the future of the Dem party. But Howard Dean is in no position to lose anything either way, and by extension, neither are we.

Cheers. :toast:

[Zhade]

114. Does he go into things like the "Osama ads" in the book?

Dean was always my #2 choice, after DK, but the more time goes by the more I realize how important his populist approach was (and still is).

I'm now convinced that the power brokers in the party distrusted We the People and torpedoed Dean's run - a realization that infuriates me to no end.

[janx]

119. He touches on it but doesn't dwell on it.

The torpedo job caused him to lose faith, but that was temporary. Apparently he hashed the whole thing out with Gore, who reminded him of the larger picture.

The book is a nice read (I don't read many political books). It's very enlightening.

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. Great Post. Very encouraging n/t

[Rose Siding]

12. Well shoot

I am SO happy to see you write this way that it makes me a little weepy. Sounds like the Doctor was just what you ordered :crazy:

Re: "It lessens the "INTENSITY" of the opposition." -Maybe by cutting the saturation level of the opponent's appearences?

[NYCGirl]

15. That's so great, Elorial!

What a wonderful post. Thank you so much.
:yourock:

[sarahlee]

16. In case you did not see this

HOWARD DEAN LOOKS BACK. . . AND FORWARD
http://www.alternet.org/story/20878/



HOWARD DEAN: The conservatives have very efficient coordination among the think tanks, the training institutes, their media messages and their grassroots efforts. We don't do . . .

ALTERNET: The Republicans have effective grassroots - churches, legion halls, gun clubs, chambers of commerce. What do you see on the Democratic side that can challenge the conservatives at the base?

HOWARD DEAN: We can do the same as they do with unions, with more moderate churches and efforts like our Democracy for America, where we engaged people to run for office. We only raised about $5-$6 million this time, but we can do much more, and a bunch of our people who have never run for office before won.

People learned from a lot of the innovations from our campaign - we did the Internet, we blazed the trail for grassroots fundraising, but the most important innovation in our campaign . . . wasn't tried in the Kerry campaign. We truly learned from the grassroots of our campaign.

ALTERNET: Can you give me an example of how that happened?

HOWARD DEAN: Well, the Meet Ups themselves . We didn't plan them, they planned us. . . There were meetings in 850 different locations once a month . . . focused on how to get me elected. Some of them are still doing it today. On the day after the election there were a number of Meet Ups. The Kerry people went. They needed a place to go and talk . . . They had just got clobbered in the election. In a sense, the Meet Up model could do some of the things that the right-wing church provides - a place where people can go that has community, and common views and values. And by the way, the Meet Ups aren't progressive, they are reformist.

ALTERNET: What's the distinction?

HOWARD DEAN: Well, what brings people together is not ideology. There are progressive as well as moderates, McCain Republicans, Greens, and even some evangelicals. They are united because they all feel the need for change. The evangelicals are attracted because they see the hypocrisy of the pro-life people who are pro-life only until the child is born. They don't accept some of the teachings. They are against gay-bashing. We have a powerful moral attraction, because we care about the lesser among us . . . Our movement empowers those people who have been left out, the young people who have been left out. . .

ALTERNET: What was the single lesson you took away from the 2004 election?

HOWARD DEAN: Oddly enough, it is hope. We ran a better campaign in the field than I have ever seen. There is genuine difference out there and we have to prosper by moving outside, by empowering people in the community . . . and I know - in giving up power some people are going to screw up, but that is part of the process. We really do have to believe. We are not automatons like the Republicans are. We don't get the orders on high.

[madfloridian]

49. And this part was great! Face the pain of change.

Do you think that the national DNC should control the state parties like they do in the RNC?

No, I don't. In order to make good on the new empowerment, we have to genuinely give power to the states and grassroots. That's what we did in our campaign. I believe in order to have power, you have to give up power. I know that sounds Zen-like, but it is true. In order to get it back, in order for us to win, we have to empower the grassroots.

Ultimately outsiders have to take over the party and that is very painful for the insiders ... insiders can't make this work out. Power needs to come from the grassroots. The current Democratic Party is the old mode. You know, they say people go to see the psychiatrist when the pain of doing the same thing becomes more than the pain of changing. It is time to face the pain of change..."

[Eloriel]

79. Yes, points also echoed today

and well-made.

One of the things I love so much about Dean is that he's what my husband calls a "thinker/doer," someone capable of VISION but also implementing that vision. Not just some starry-eyed dreamer but a pragmatic sort with managerial and executive ability, but one with a grander view of what's possible.

[madfloridian]

17. "It lessens the intensity of the opposition"...here is why he said that.

When you run a candidate, even knowing you can't win.....you get out your viewpoint, you make them spend money, and you call attention to your views.

[Cha]

46. Precisely! And you would think anyone

in politics would instinctively know that!

[sarahlee]

118. I think this survey

Help prove your point.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x269982

And I think this is why Dennis Kucinich's running was so important as well.

I love that the Kucinich PDA people and the Dean DFA groups are working together. I belive that together, we can grow them into a single, powerful grassroots movement. I know that most all of the former Kucinich supporters are lobbying heavily for Dean to take on the DNC Chair.

[madfloridian]

20. And oh, did I say I was jealous?

He spent time here with our meet-ups in Florida, and the DFA folks. Our friends got to spend most of the day with him....not many politicians would do that.

[calimary]

22. Jealous, here, too. Did you get a photo of yourself with him?

GREAT way to wind up the week! Congrats! You'll be walking on air all weekend, I suspect.

[Eloriel]

109. Yep, that's what the arms about one another was all about.

:-)

However, after she snapped the photo, I realized I was biting my lip, not smiling. Don't know why, but there I was. Hopefully Howard was smiling and I'll just cut me out of it. I don't like having my picture taken anyway.

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Eloriel, thanks so much for spreading some enthusiasm around! :^)

------------------------------------------------------------
Help save our country one town, county, and state at a time!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm#why

[meppie-meppie not]

30. I concur! :) nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

37. Welcome to DU :^)

------------------------------------------------------------
Help save our country one town, county, and state at a time!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm#why

[meppie-meppie not]

52. TY! :-) nt

[jpgray]

27. Sadly, I think some who self-identify as supporters don't understand Dean

He is committed to helping the Democratic Party become the vessel of progressive, populist energy and then to use it to defeat the corporate influences in Washington. To do this, he has used and worked with *gasp* corporate, spineless Democrats. He didn't sulk and threaten to leave the party when Kerry beat him. He sucked it up and worked for Kerry, and as himself, not as an unenthusiastic (and therefore unconvincing) sockpuppet for Kerry's talking points. Dean's group is willing to support corporate and spineless Democrats, totally anathema to a progessive's idea of a true Dem, when the alternative is a wholly depraved and malignant Republican. In other words, he is thinking long term, he is thinking strategically. He recognizes that strong beliefs alone aren't enough--he doesn't want to be Peter the Hermit.

And he understands the most important flaw with the DLC. It's not about knee-jerk hatred of three letters of the alphabet and all who identify with them, it's about their attempt to duplicate Republican success with Republican strategy. They forget that Republican strategy is predicated on alliance with big business and corporate power at the expense of the regular people. So in their attempts to make it work, they cast away more and more of the populism and progressive stances that made this party great. And this rejection of the party's soul will never be enough unless we wholly sell out all our values, and Dean recognizes this. Some of his supporters would rather throw out every senator but one and then start from there--he has more sense.

[NYCGirl]

33. Who are these self-identifiers you're talking about?

It's consistently the right wing who tries to paint Dean as something he's not, or ever pretended to be.

We all know who he is, we've read his book, we go to DFA meetups (and the great framing workshops), and we understand and appreciate who he is, and DFA.

[meppie-meppie not]

42. I'm reminded of his one defeat during the primaries

the right wing media was all over his rally speech to the troops at the end of the evening and within 24 hrs had aired his rallying cry some 600 plus times. Problem was there were as many democrats decrying Dean as "unpresidential" because of it. They had bought into the right wing propaganda hook line and sinker.

[madfloridian]

45. So you are speaking of Democrats in general, not Dean supporters?

Maybe I misunderstood you. I don't think I misunderstood the other post though.

[meppie-meppie not]

50. yes I was sorry...I really have got to get a handle on the clarity thing..

now to dawn my cap :dunce:

[madfloridian]

55. See my post below. Still trying to understand.

:shrug: but open minded if I am wrong.

[janx]

65. A lot of misunderstandings happen in these fast-moving threads.

So don't worry about it. And welcome to DU! :hi:

[meppie-meppie not]

68. TY and hi back! :) nt

I will improve, really I will :-)

[meppie-meppie not]

35. excellent point and dead on IMHO..nt

[madfloridian]

41. You concur that Dean supporter are clueless? Or what do you concur on?

And why is this thread being turned into something ugly.
Eloriel had a happy day, and this is wrong.

[meppie-meppie not]

48. I concur on this posters analysis of Dean

they voiced all of the attributes that have made me respect,admire and support him. I wasn't meaning to be sounding negative and I very much appreciate Eloriel's post.

[madfloridian]

54. Then you should have stayed out of Eloriel's nice post.

That poster you admire is bashing Dean supporters. Not nice to jump in the middle of the thread where someone has had a good day.

It is sad.

[meppie-meppie not]

59. then I misinterpreted their post completely, sorry I'll try and be

more circumspect b/c I surely wasn't trying to rain on anyones parade :dunce:

[madfloridian]

60. Well, I still don't know what you are saying.

.

[meppie-meppie not]

63. quite alright because I just went back to review the post I was responding

to and, well um, I just realized I had initially posted to the wrong bloody poster...that being said I'll just slither away..

[madfloridian]

39. Oh, you are so wrong there. We do know.

We know exactly what he is about. In just a few words, funding. He was going to win using grassroots funding....which would harm the DLC. His supporters have deep pockets, and we will continue to have them.

We know exactly...we just are not willing to see more rejection of the grassroots. We understand a lot.

This was a happy thread, so thanks so much for jumping in and talking about Dean's bad supporters. Thank you, thank you.

If you don't like Dean people....kick em out. :think:

:silly: :evilgrin:

[jpgray]

47. Ah, then you don't understand

Because Dean will use that grassroots money to prop up DLC-type spineless moderates if he has to--hardly what one who aims to harm the DLC would do. He has done it already with Daschle and others. Why? Because he doesn't expect to pull this off in a month or two. He isn't going to work just for a single election cycle, expect the world and then give up when it isn't given to him. And more than this he is willing to compromise and work with those who disagree with him as long as he can make progress by doing so. Some of his supporters refuse to take a first step unless it will reach the finish line--Dean is willing to go a small step at a time if he has to, and is willing to do what he can to keep moving forward, rather than bitch at the starting line about how imperfect the track is, how tight his shoes are, etc. without moving an inch.

He will make the DLC obsolete if he succeeds, but I doubt he frames his goals in terms of harming them.

[madfloridian]

53. You are totally clueless. You are not willing to see.

You have done this over and over.....You are the one who is unwilling to give us a chance.

Some are so radically left that they are just as dangerous as the radical right.

If you never compromise, you will never stand for anything either. You will just pontificate...you won't do anything...you will just talk about it.

Meanwhile we are working the best we can at local levels to get more control over the party and get the DLC types out. Here 4 of 7 of our local DEC were Dean supporters....the DLC advocate who was written up at New Republic several years ago...for wanting to stick the DLC in our face....well he is gone now. All voted out.

[jpgray]

57. I appreciate what Dean is doing

He's right to recognize that DLC moderates--even those in as weak and helpless a position as Daschle--have value to a movement that will help deliver politics from overwhelming corporate influence. That Dean is inclusive toward the DLC even as they are so violently exclusive toward him is one of his most admirable qualities. The "spineless" DLC moderates can have a role in reshaping the party--I reject the view that holds a politician is either a paragon of Democratic values or a worthless DLC corporate stooge. There are grey areas in there.

[Eloriel]

71. Yeah, it took me a couple of readings

to see that your post about HIM wasn't a slam. Not quite as sure about the part of your posts about his supporters. I understand fairly well, and it's my observation and experience that all the hardcore Dean supporters know him VERY well.

His tolerance and ability to forgive people in his own party is admirable (even I have to begrudgingly admit), but it's not something *I* have to do. I'm not a politician and in fact I hate politics, with a passion -- precisely because what Dean is doing and has done is reasonably required, in appearance if not in fact. I, for instance, will never forgive John Kerry and all his rowdy friends for what they did to Howard Dean. Never. Of course, in kerry's case there are a number of worse or more important things I'll never forgive him for, so at some point the Dean stuff became somewhat moot. Dean is a far better person than I'll ever be, and I'm quite content to let that be the case...and nurture my grudges as perhaps one of the few things I can actually enjoy about politics, in my perverse way.

Let me say why I'll never forgive John Kerry and his cohorts for what they did to Dean: undermining Dean (or anyone) to the point that they did, with dirty tricks and backroom deals, deprives The People of a fair, honest primary election season. There ought to be NO ROOM in Democratic politics for dirty tricks. None. That should be the exclusive province of Republicans.

In fact, one of the questions to Dean today, SO well put, ended up with the poignant question (paraphrased here because I can't quite remember the exact words), "So how can we avoid our Party defeating itself?"

[madfloridian]

73. You are right about Dean's qualities in that respect. He has no ego.

He never blames anyone, and he never looks back. Unfortunately, I have yet to be able to be that way....at least not right now.

It is a special quality, and few have it. A lack of ego allows a person to accomplish a great deal.

I don't think he can do it within the current party atmosphere, though.

I am not over the way they ganged up on him. I think 6 against one with Clinton on the the side was a little much.

[Rose Siding]

58. He is forthright about his goals.

And if we accomplish them, the repulsive parts of the DLC (pols who grant more access to their stockbrokers than their constituents) will be starved to death.

Hate the sin, love the sinner :silly:

[janx]

62. HA!

What an appropriate line!

[Cheswick2.0]

84. You have no idea what you are talking about

Now you have his supporters all figured out huh?
LOL

[greenohio]

106. "Dean's group is willing to support corporate and spineless Democrats,"

Really. Hadn't heard that. Which Dems are these?

[killbotfactory]

28. Did he rip the arms off a baby?

I hear from the Teeveee that he's Kuuuurrraaazzzeeee like glue!

[janx]

64. No, he didn't...but SOME of his supporters did.

No, no! I'm not going to name names! No sirootie. But we all know who "SOME" of them are...;-)

[ashmanonar]

32. i don't even know much about howard dean

in fact i didn't hear about him til i joined up here...but i'd much much rather have someone like him in the president's seat (bush's legs are too short, he just kinda kicks his feet)

dean seems like someone who really cares about america, rather than bush or even kerry, who seemed like they just wanted to be president, and didn't/don't care about america and how to make it better.

[meppie-meppie not]

56. Shrub was toted as being "authentic" (gag) but anyone with

a even a few marbles would know just how phony the little turd is. Dean was and will always be, to me, authentic, genuine, intensely passionate about what he cares for and a straight shooter.

[ladjf]

38. Dean is an "outsider" and so are we. We've either got to

turn into "Republican Lites" or find leaders who are liberal, progressive and reality based. Somehow the voting fraud must be stopped. That is the number one priority obviously. That might be possible as their is no way to rig all of the voting places. I may be wrong but I don't think that every Republican would be willing to cheat at the voting place (just most of them).

[janx]

61. Eloriel, I am wondering most about this:

"He spoke of some of the things he would do for the party as DNC chair, and he spoke about some of the things he'll (we'll) do in DFA if he's not. (Go, Howard!)"


Can you tell us more...or not?

[madfloridian]

66. Win, win, janx....love it.

:hi:

[janx]

69. I know, but I want to know the details!

:evilgrin:

[Eloriel]

74. One of the things he mentioned

as DNC chair was to borrow a page from the GOP and fund (from the DNC level) a basic core staff from the DNC level in each state.

Another biggie (he didn't speak about this today, other than his "show up" comment, but had it in his speech the other day) is to run candidates in every race, everywhere. All the time. What he DID allude to today that goes with that is encouraging people to run for office everywhere in the state -- county commissions, school boards, state legislature (or "assembly"). He talked also about having referenda on the ballots, like the GOP does, to bring out the base, and he mentioned that they start working on this and each election 2 years in advance.

He made a very strong plea for people in attendance to consider running for office. That's certainly part of what DFA will continue to do -- help encourage and fund candidates. In fact, one of our DFA successes, a new GA State Senator, was in attendance today.

One of my Dean friends mentioned to me that Georgia for Dean had been successful in getting a number of people, including herself, elected to the state party apparatus. Hooray. "We're going to take over this party." Heheh.

And, who should show up at the end, but the State Party Chair, a man who does NOT have a very good reputation with me (aka: snake in the grass). Dean, however, treated him warmly and with respect -- after all, he DOES want Georgia party activist votes come DNC chair-voting time. Like I said, Dean's a better person than I.

[janx]

76. Thanks so much for these details.

I have read/heard that a good amount of state DNC folks are behind Dean because they feel cut off from decision making. His idea of funding the state apparatus (as long as it is accessible to its constituents and communities) is the best idea I've heard about in a very long time.

Some of these state DNC people are not happy. They'd be thrilled to be given the responsibility they deserve, and I'm sure they would treat it with care and respect.

Thanks again, Eloriel. I've never met Dean. The times he came to my state I had scheduling problems--mostly work. I did send him a copy of my book via DFA, and I got a nice thank-you note in return.

Maybe next time he comes to my state, I'll be able to make it.

[madfloridian]

67. Yes, I love this part...."real people".

Your description of your fellow DFAers there:
SNIP.."Folks who believe as I do for the most part, folks who know the truth when they hear it, folks who share my values and interests and care about the country as much as I do if not more. Real people. My people. So I'm gonna spend more time with them...."

Yes.

[AgadorSparticus]

70. thanks for sharing. i am so jealous though. :)

I hope the good Doctor gets the nod for DNC chair. I think he is EXACTLY what we need--more now than ever.

[janx]

90. And your screen name is STILL one of my favorites.

Just watched the film again a couple of nights ago!

[AgadorSparticus]

94. hey janx. think i might watch that again this weekend.

:hi:

[Eloriel]

78. It was an emotional day for me -- little did I know that

this thread would be an emotional experience as well. I am surprised by how my small, hastily drawn, incomplete and rather sketchy report has been a ray of sunshine for so many. (Goodness, just how deeply depressed and utterly defeated ARE we, for heaven's sake? I thought I was the only one, or one of few feeling this way.)

And I'm deeply touched by all the positive responses. Thank you, each and every one.

Another thing he mentioned, and I see it so very clearly today, both when I was there this afternoon and now here in this thread: community. He talked about how the Democracy for America organization was more than just a political organization, that it was family and "family is always there," and we are building community and interested in building community. Thank you all for helping me SEE that, helping demonstrate it, helping me experience it.

Yes, madfloridian, I absolutely will be spending more time with those wonderful "real people" -- my family and community -- and also in the DFA forum here at DU.

[madfloridian]

81. I think I will spend more time there. I am too prone to attacks...

that never stop. I heard it was going to happen today, but I really did not believe it.

I am so glad for your post, and I am very sad for our party.

[janx]

85. How many among us (at least those over the age of 40) don't

recognize what he's talking about? When I grew up, the people in my neighborhood always spent time together, at barbeques or on camping trips, or just relaxing in the neighborhood. It didn't matter then whether you were a member of either political party or no political party.

My parents were like Dean's parents in that they were old Goldwater Republicans (or voted that way, anyway). But we'd go camping with other families of Democrats, and although the adults might get into political discussions or debates around the campfire with their drinks, nothing--absolutely nothing--hindered their friendship or love and respect for one another. It is not that way today.

Our society is so fractured now that we rarely even know our neighbors, let alone help them out. And we're so fractured politically that it's almost surreal. The right-wing tactic of division has worked so well that we imagine ourselves all but genetically different from those who live in another part of the country, for instance. Look at the "red versus blue" state fallacy.

And anyone who doesn't follow the Bush* line feels marginalized, too, because the the far right's manipulation of the media.

What Dean emphasizes (as I read it) is that *it doesn't have to be that way anymore.* We can take our country back to that place of community and respect, both domestically and internationally.

Do you remember (I think it was during the summer of 2003, but it may have been earlier) when he spontaneously grabbed that flag and declared that it didn't belong to Jerry Fallwell or Rush Limbaugh, etc.--that it belonged to all Americans? It was fairly early in the campaign.

How I wish my mother were alive today. She would have loved Howard Dean.

Edit: By today's standards, my mother would be considered a "librul."

[DaveinMD]

83. I agree with everything

he told you. I don't care who the chair of the party is and I have no dog in this fight. But that's a good recipe. Any party leader would be wise to take from that list.

[madfloridian]

89. "Show up"....how simple and clear. Just had to repeat that.

I know I already said it. I had to say it again.

You used the word real a lot. That is the same word our friends used after a breakfast, a meeting, and then a afternoon with him in Orlando. "Real"....

[wicket]

92. Dean for DNC!!!!

[Vadem]

93. Eloriel, I'm so envious! Howard was my choice for Pres., in the...

primaries. Of course, once we had a candidate, we all collesced behind our Dem candidate, Kerry. I was happy with Kerry, since my late husband went on many codels with John regarding the Iran-Contra fiasco as well as many other fiascos! Oh, dear Lord, you know we all are in the same family (and we all know what that family is)...email me if you are confused!

[JohnOneillsMemory]

95. "Show up." Ha! And run for every office you can. Great advice.

I accidently saw Dean in Philadelphia in 8/03 across the street from the Liberty Bell. This was when 3000 people showing up at a Dean rally was big news.

Then I accidently walked into a Dean Meet-Up at my local restaurant during the primaries.

I'd like to accidently bump into him at his inauguration in 2008.

[elshiva]

96. I'm jealous!

"In fact, I had my arm around him, and his around me." I am a crushie and a want a hug too!
If you're going South, stop by Maryland sometime, Dean!
BTW, I'll still take Kerry up on his offer to embrace his supporters, like he said in his concession speeches.
Just hugs, mind you, these are happily married men!

[Eloriel]

105. Okay, I'll confess

I have what feels for all the world like a school girl crush on Howard and have had just about all along -- except that it's really, really platonic.

It's the strangest thing to me, BUT I notice I'm not alone. There were a good handful of other women there yesterday who seemed to feel the same way about him. The simple truth is that I have always been emotionally and intellectually turned on by that level of honesty, integrity, vision, competence and blunt truth-telling, and heroism in the realm of bucking the system as well. And if recognizing and speaking the truth isn't precisely that kind of heroism these days, I don't know what is.

So, there it is: I adore Howard Dean and always will. Politically speaking, I would follow him just about anywhere (as long as he stayed on a true course, naturally).

Can't help it. :shrug:

[XemaSab]

111. I heart Dean

he put his arm around ME for my photo with him.

:-)

[Carolab]

98. Eloriel, lucky you!

I hope someday I too can meet Howard and put my arm around him. He is my hero. I never cared about politics AT ALL until Dean came along. In my opinion, he is the one who started this Democratic revolution. I am always so inspired when he speaks, by his truth, his knowledge, his wisdom, his optimism and his sparkling eyes and that charming smile!

Like you, I find it very dispiriting when people diss Dean who simply do not know him as we do. They are victims of the lies and media spin that have been planted. So I do what I can to explain and leave it at that. One needs to find out on one's own what we already know to be true about the good doctor.

I still belong to DFA and will continue. I got on DU's forum because the numbers are large and therefore contributes mass to the activism necessary for our efforts. But I still post at DFA and I have lately been spending a little more time there and will migrate back. I will also start going to the DFA meetups again soon (and those of the Democratic Progressive caucus).

You're right, Dean people are special people.

[eridani]

99. Anyone going to any of the other meetings?

Good options for promoting the reform agenda if you can do it--
http://www.mydd.com/story/2004/12/26/213528/41

In January, they'll be 4 regional DNC member gatherings. I encourage all the Netroots activists out there to attend one of them nearest to you, if possible. It's very likely that the active candidates for the DNC Chair will be in attendance, and be accessible to the public. I'll try to confirm that as we get nearer the event, at least for the Reform candidates attending. Again, here's the January dates and cities (exact locations will be available later): 1/8, Atlanta; 1/15, St. Louis; 1/22, Sacramento ; 1/29 New York City. DrivingVotes.org is going to be organizing roadtrips to the events, so you can also sign up there to be informed.

[Eloriel]

110. I had not been under the impression these DNC Regional Mtgs

were open to the public. Dean certainly didn't invite or encourage us to attend the Atlanta one.

He DID however invite everyone to the June Democracy for America convention (or whatever it is) in Austin, TX, I think it is. Sorry the details are fuzzy on my part. I'm sure there's info on the blog somewhere.

[NoPasaran]

102. Eloriel, you are so lucky

The only thing better than seeing Dean is seeing Dean and reconnecting with some old DFA friends.

I want to invite everyone who is posting in this thread to join us in the DU DFA Group http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=244

More importantly, go to your DFA Meetups! If there isn't a local Meetup, start one!

And start planning now to come down to Austin June 17-19 for Democracy Fest. A splendid time is guaranteed for all.

[Adelante]

104. I am very much in favor of a Dean DNC

Somebody's got to kick the party in the ass and I know he can do it.

[mdmc]

107. I went to a dfa meetup today

:kick:

[Cookie wookie]

108. Eloriel, you beat me to this.

I was waiting to post until I had processed the photos and gotten permission to link to them, and oophs, and didn't do a search so I posted them and my remarks in a new thread.

The photos are linked from here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1478412#1478475

[Eloriel]

113. Great photos, great report

And great seeing YOU!! It was a great day for me, and it was all your fault. LOL. Thanks again for inviting me to go.

[Cookie wookie]

115. Did the ole heart good to see you as well.

Isn't he photogenic!! I have more pix, but big files so could burn a CD for you and mail. Look for mssg in your inbox.