The best choice for the 2008 Presidency

[genius]

Poll question: The best choice for the 2008 Presidency

It's important for the next President to be someone who stood up for Democracy and opposed the theft of the 04 election. If someone did not do that, then he/she either has not been tested or failed the test. Here are some of the choices of thsoe who stood up for Democracy

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Tough call! Dennis is out in front for me, but dang a lot of

the others are only just behind him.

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[genius]

54. It looks like Kucinich-Boxer or Boxer-Kucinich for 2008

A good winning ticket.

[Thomas Jefferson]

3. Good poll.

So many great choices.

[messiah]

4. If you want someone with who's left with spine to win

then select someone with Bill Clinton's Charisma, white, has a devout christian background, working class background current or former, from the deep south, you would win the election. Nobody has the winning mindset to look for a candidate like this so good luck:beer:.

[phillysuse]

10. Winning candidate for 2008

Someone with Bill's Clinton's background - poor boy, raised by a single Mom in Arkansas, has charisma, looks better than Bill or any other candidate in a speedo as well as a uniform, devoted Christian with a Jewish father and a Catholic wife from Brooklyn, lives American values - country, God and flag, wounded in VietNam but no Swift boats, first in his class at West Point, Rhodes Scholar, author, statesman, savior of 1.4 million human beings from ethnic cleansing - more than Schindler with his 900 or so, honored by many foreign governments, internationalist, speaks four languages, accepted by foreign leaders throughout the world, Hispanic daughter-in-law, described by Michael Moore in 2004 as God's gift to the Democratic party, endorsed by the Advocate and the Indian Nation - General (ret) Wesley Kanne Clark

[xkenx]

20. CLARK--YOU SAID IT BEAUTIFULLY

Only one more thing to add. Clark ran his commands as a true progressive, pushing affirmative action, caring for subordinates, even winning environmental awards.

[For PaisAn]

21. Exactly what you said!

Yep, he's the one. Sure hope we don't blow it in '08 if we're fortunate enough that he decides to run again.

[Capn Sunshine]

53. better than Bill or any other candidate in a speedo

WHY do we have to trivialize Clark this way?

FYI You left off " Administrator of the School of the Americas, so bettr at torture than Bush"

[Jai4WKC08]

92. What crap

No one was ever tortured at the SOA. And no one was ever advised or taught to torture at the SOA while it was under Clark's command. Absurd to compare it to what the Bushies have done at Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, etc.

And please try to keep your smears of good Democrats a little more precise, ok? He was never an "administrator" of the SOA, which implies a direct and personal hand in running the training there. He was regional commander-in-chief for all US forces in Latin America. Might as well blame Clinton for it--he was commander-in-chief of all US forces, to include those in Latin America.

Sheesh.

[melnjones]

81. Amen.

And welcome to DU newbie!

[AntiCoup2K4]

42. But Jimmy Carter's 80 years old

And besides, he's already been President. Wish he would have had a second term in 1980, but it's too late now.

[zulchzulu]

5. All of them would lose badly in the primaries...so...um...whatever

Of course you forgot Kerry, who actually was doing many efforts with the Kerry/Edwards legal team to investigate what happened...

If anything, Cobb or Nader should be in the poll.

[dolstein]

6. How about Susan Sontag? At least she has the virtue of being dead.

That's a pretty good excuse for losing all 50 states. I'm not sure what kind of excuse the people you listed would give.

[mr715]

65. She'd Win In...

She'd win in Missouri. They vote dead people in.

And she'd take the northeast (cept for NH and maybe Maine), the West coast (cept for Oregon), and Michigan.

Thats way better than what Kucinich would get.

And Maxine Waters. I dont think our conservative republic is ready for an angry, outspoken, black, woman president.

[Osamasux]

7. Other.

[StephanieMarie]

8. Give me someone who's not a Senator or in Congress. n/t

[phillysuse]

11. Why not General Clark?

See my post #10.

Yet another reason to support General Clark - yes a liberal in
stealth (camouflage) clothing.

[genius]

27. Rev Jesse Jackson and Greg Palast are on the list. They stood up

for democracy. This should be a criteria.

[Clarkie1]

9. I'm not clear on this poll...do you mean best person to be president, or

the best person to be a winning democratic nominee?

[phillysuse]

13. Best person to be president or best person tobe a winning nominee

General (ret) Wesley Kanne Clark fits for both.

[Clarkie1]

18. Personally, I agree with that statement; I was just trying get the purpose

of this particular poll.

For example, I think my senator Barbara Boxer is a political hero, and I started a post urging patriots to send her their thanks. From a policy perspective, and a "spine" perspective, I think she would make a great president. However, I don't think she could win the general election.

And even if I did think she could win, I feel Clark would be a better choice. He has skills and experience important the leader of the free world Barbara Boxer, God bless her, simply has not had in her life experience. So yes, for me Clark is the best choice for a "winning" candidate as well as the best choice for president I have seen in my lifetime. I suppose a candidate who impresses me even more may come along, but Clark is so unique in what he brings to the democratic party, America, and our cause I frankly doubt it.

[genius]

30. As of November 3rd, we found out that "war hero" means nothing polically.

[Clarkie1]

64. But Clark is so much more than that n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

96. Clark wouldn't be running as a "war hero",

rather, as someone whose career and life experience make him uniquely equipped to deal with the complex global situation we're in (no doubt severely exacerbated by the time Bu$h is done with his second term).

His qualifications and experience are vastly different than those of Kerry. It's comparing apples and footballs.:)

[For PaisAn]

23. Good distinction!

[mattclearing]

12. You missed Michael Moore, Bruce Springsteen, and the Easter Bunny.

:toast:

[dolstein]

14. Compared to those listed, I like the Easter bunny's chances

NT

[Darryl Cramer]

15. Dennis Kucinich?

Who are these 8 people who voted for this guy? You've got to be kidding? I think he's great, but the Republicans could run Dan Qualye against this guy and win.

[dolstein]

17. Hell, they could run Marilyn Quayle against him and win

NT

[genius]

28. Guess you don't like people with integrity.

I remember all those sure winners conceding early in the prmary process and Mr. Electable War Hero going down for the count on November 3rd. Dennis was still in the game fighting for the Democrats to get the Presidency on Nov 3rd.

[Freddie Stubbs]

38. He sure helped in carrying his home state of Ohio

;)

[dolstein]

60. Apparently, you equate integrity with lack of political viability

There are plenty of people with integrity who, unlike Dennis Kucinich, actually have a prayer of winning the nomination.

[mr715]

63. Yeah, integrity

He's pro-life when it elects him in his socially conservative home state

He's pro-choice when hes running as Captain Planet in the primaries.

He thinks we should ban flag burning. But not if its considered free speech, which it isnt. But it is. But it isnt.

Stop the messiah worship. Just cause he's a vegan doesnt make him a good liberal. It takes more than soundbytes, wanting bizarre Departments of Peace (which is already called 'The Department of State'), and being unpresidential looking to be elected President.

That being said - I have a hunch Al Gore will run in 2008. If not Al Gore, it'll be Warner, Bayd, Clark, Vilsack.

We will not have an unelectable liberal candidate in 2008 like John Kerry - yes, he was TOO liberal to win in this nation, even though I love him to death.

We will have an extremely conservative (real) Democrat a la Bill Clinton, Al Gore, or Evan Bayd

[mvd]

74. No candidate is perfect

Dennis Kucinich is a GREAT liberal and has as much integrity as I've seen in a politician. BTW, I'll eat my words if he goes back to being pro-life, but I'll say right now that he will not.

I was proud to vote my principles in the primary, where I voted for Dennis Kucinich. I will vote for Kuninich or Boxer in 2008 if they run. I think Kerry is a liberal, just not as much as one as me, and I didn't hold my nose voting for him in the GE. I'll tolerate more moderate than him just to get the Bush neo-cons out. But I see no problem with a poll such as this where we state who we WANT most.

[mr715]

77. Here.

Its the God worshipping I dont like.

Everything out of Person X's mouth is KUCINICH!!! KUCINICH!!!

[mvd]

78. While devotion is good,

It can get annoying when people say he's the only good Democrat - I understand.

[loyalsister]

88. We need a governor

I really think a governor is going to make the best candidate. Coming out of congress gives the opposition way too much ammunition.
A federal voting record is not a good thing to have when running for president.
I also have a personal preference for candidates who have executive branch experience. They seem to be able to hold their own with an audience better sometimes. Vilsack has that sort of folksy way of talking that would be very beneficial in the south and midwest. I also happen to like the guy.
Don't know much about Warner yet. I'll have to check him out.
I can't understand the Clark fixation. I find it astonishing that anyone would want to run a guy who would be shredded over his lack of experience. Remember, it's going to be a whole different set of circumstances in 2008. They will be able to spin his lack of experience very differently as there is more and more time distance from military service. Don't forget, Dick Cheney only ran for VP and IKE was eons ago.
He is not bullet proof. Noone is. We need someone who can keep the Democrats and has the advantage of having had at least SOME vetting in earlier elections.

[Jai4WKC08]

93. Clark has plenty of experience in governing

More than any state governor, at a higher level, and with experience working with Congress and the federal bureaucracy to boot. And I'm not exactly talking ancient history here. He's been "out of office" a whole 8 months longer than Al Gore and I don't see you attacking those who think he should run again.

The only thing Clark lacked was experience in running for office. He's got a hellluva lot more of that now, from his own campaign, from watching and participating in the Kerry campaign, and for having worked to elect a bunch of congressional candidates. More importantly, he's smart enough to put his experience into practice. I can think of one likely '08 contender (*cough* Kerry *cough*) who has run for office many times and seems to have learned nothing.

You're right that it will be "a whole different set of circumstances in 2008." If Clark decides to run, you'll see a whole different Clark campaign. If you're not impressed by the change, don't vote for him. But pre-judging is kind of stupid.

I don't get the Dick Cheney reference. He's the ultimate chicken-hawk. Had "other priorities." And fwiw, Cheney has loads of "experience" (Congress, Sec of Defense, VP)--does that make him a good candidate?

Just remember, what you call "vetting in earlier elections" the Repubs will call "attacking a voting record." 'Course, they will attack whoever we nominate--they've already started on Clark. What we need is someone with guts to fight back. That's Clark in spades.

[Leilani]

16. If you want to set a record for the worst loss in Dem history

They are great choices.

[sellitman]

19. Where is Dean?

Howard would of wiped the floor with bush the lesser. (If it not for Voting Fraud) :kick:

[JohnLocke]

22. Bob Graham (nt).

[dolstein]

61. His 2004 campaign was a slow motion train wreck

Perhaps you hadn't noticed that Graham sought the nomination in 2004.

[JohnLocke]

62. Plenty of time for a second run.

[Lexingtonian]

24. where is the "None of the Above" option?

It gets my vote.
I hope you're not too afraid to add it in.

[genius]

29. Which of the other 31 Representatives would you like to see added?

I'll do another poll and include whichever of the other 31 you want added in. Anyone who failed to stand up for Democracy on 1/6 pr failed to work hard to prove the election was rigged is toast in my book.

[Lexingtonian]

34. Oh well, I'm part of the reality-based community

I suppose our lists will never overlap.

[The Gigmeister]

48. No offense, but your book is small.

And your book is a loser.

It's everyone else's book I'm concerned about. I want to win in 2008.

[ScaRBama]

44. I agree!!!

[earth mom]

25. None of the above because

I agree with what Michael Moore said on the today show last week. Which was to find an extremely popular celebrity who would win by an overwhelming margin-like Oprah or Tom Hanks. If only either one of them would run, I think it would be a slam dunk! :bounce:

[Mutley]

84. it's worked for republicans....

ie.. jesse ventura and arnold swartzkdhjahgdkakflwhatever... why not us?

[FrenchieCat]

26. If you want to win the presidency.....

then "none of the above".

They are all great people and patriots and in a United States where each state was like California or Vermont, each would have a great chance. However, the reality that gets in the way also screams that none of those listed could win a general election in the United States today. Sad, but true.

General Clark....well, that's a different matter all together.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[genius]

32. I liked Kennedy but he voted for Bush on 1/6.

[TSIAS]

33. If I HAD to pick

I guess this was supposed to be a serious inquiry. Of the names listed, Boxer would probably have the best chance to get elected. I don't think she could win, but she'd do better than Kucinich, McKinney, and Palast.

[deignan]

35. Dean

Why was Dean left out of the poll?

[MHalblaub]

36. Senator Rodham Clinton?

And be glad that Bush will show 4 more years the people that he is incapable. Then the next President will be able to make a real big clean up.

If the next President is the present Vice President then the whole world got a real big problem.

[Bampa]

37. You need to do this poll over - add more people

President Jimmy Carter (Again)
Howard Dean
Conyers
Gen. Clark
Michael Moore
H. Clinton
Senator Carl Levin
Others?

[LiberalCat]

39. I voted Boxer, but Kucinich was a very close second.

The main problem with Boxer is that she is another senator, like Gore and Kerry. Senators are so used to compromising and playing nice that they don't have a clear message and they back down way too easily.

Of course, the main concern with Election 2008 is that a truly viable candidate that will fight will either be taken down by the neocon's media during the primaries, like Dean was or she/he will be taken down by an assassin's bullet during the campaign, like Robert Kennedy was. The big money interests can't afford to have a viable candidate expose their true nature and goals.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. Jackson-Kucinich...

That's the ticket...

[genius]

55. I love it. I'm also a big Jesse Jackson fan.

[AntiCoup2K4]

41. Howard Dean!

[Guns Aximbo]

43. none of the above

I like them all but none of them would have a snowballs chance in hell if winning agains the troll (gingrinch) or loafer boy (bushbro) .

[Crunchy Frog]

45. Wes Clark! n/t

[moggie12]

46. Wow, this stuff is getting repetitive

Personally, I prefer the "DLC sucks/no it doesn't" argument currently raging on this same DU "Politics" category. If people would quit taking sides and actually get to the bottom of that one, it would make discussions of Presidential candidates much more useful and productive. Me personally, I'd like to figure out whether corporate interests actually "bought" the Party or not and, if so, what to do about it.

Also, and this is probably going to upset you, but if you're selecting candidates only from among those who "stood up for democracy", as defined exclusively by "opposing the theft of '04", boy is that going to narrow your base!! As it is, approximately 21% of voters in this past election identified themselves as "liberal" (I think 45% said moderate and 34% said "conservative" but I can double-check the exact figures if you're interested).

[The Gigmeister]

47. You're kidding, right?

Did anyone who's voted here pay attention to the last election?

May God Bless the honorable Senator Boxer for standing-up for principle, but you do know she (Or most anyone on this list) would lose to most any puke? And lose by Mondale proportions.

[TeddyKGB]

49. None of the above.

Sorry.

[Norquist Nemesis]

50. Current or former Governor is probably the best choice

er...chance. Congressmen/women don't have as strong a track record at winning as do Governors.

Now, who exactly THAT would be... :shrug:

[ThorsHammer]

51. Conyers from that list; Dean/Clark overall

[American Tragedy]

52. No Congressmen, dammit!

[Ripley]

56. I'm sorry, but not one of those people would even get

as many votes as nutty Perot. Will not happen.

[ArtVandaley]

57. As much as I love Maxine, Conyers, Kucinich and the rest . . .

There is no way any would ever get elected. I'm not a DLC who wants Evan Bayh or Goebbels or whoever else is "centrist" enough, I want a strong progressive candidate like Russ Feingold in 2008. But can you honestly say you think anyone of them could possibly win?
As for this "anyone who didn't vote in protest isn't a real democrat and doesn't deserve my vote" nonsense, can you honestly say Ted Kennedy or Bob Byrd wouldn't be worthy of your vote for president? I think people should settle down a bit and try to focus on our future instead of bitching about losing unwinable battles. Focus on election reform for 2008.

[txaslftist]

58. UGH...Sorry dude.

That's a fantasy post.

[manhattanite]

59. John Kerry. nt

[Clarkie1]

66. Here's another poll if your choice wasn't on the list

You might find your favored candidate on this one. Unfortunately some names like Dean, Biden, Kucinich, Boxer, etc., are missing, but you can vote for "other."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1480121&mesg_id=1480121

[JNelson6563]

67. Wait and see

let us see who hammers on the naked emperor and his court for the next few years. Rousing Dem troops is a consideration too.

Julie

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

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[LynnTheDem]

73. "Lieberman with charisma"???

ROTFLMAO!!!

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

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[PA Democrat]

76. Neither Jackson nor Kucinich ever called NY "hymie town"

that was Al Sharpton.

[fatal101]

69. Kucinich!

We need to run a REAL democrat if the party has any life left in it.

[genius]

86. BTW, there is a Kucinich supporters group here at du.

[XemaSab]

70. Where's Peter the Hermit?

When's Peter the Hermit going to get some respect around here?

If Peter the Hermit isn't the candidate, I'm going Green!

[mr715]

71. Pshaw

Peter the Hermit is a hopeless HINO and everyone knows it.

Dennis Kucinich is the only hermit whos really a hermit!


M

[XemaSab]

79. Peter the Hermit

has lived in a karst sink in Missouri since losing the nomination in '76. His only company has been his 5 large, shaggy, mixed-breed dogs. He eats wild-gathered greens for breakfast, organically grown quinoa for lunch, and free-range acorn gruel for dinner. On sundays he occasionally eats a sustainably-harvested morel which he eats on his one very small plate, which he carved himself from part of a downed tree limb, while thanking the tree for the wood and apologizing to Gaia for removing coarse wood from the ecosystem.

He believes in freedom, sustainability, and calcium carbonates. He is committed to the importance of protecting a companion animal's right to be spayed or neutered, as long as the animal is okay with that.

He also believes strongly in grassroot principles, such as nutrient uptake, maintaining a good osmotic balance, growing stolons, and nurturing strong mycorrhizal partnerships. These principles will be the basis of his campaign, as well as of his foreign and domestic policies, should he be elected.

Peter the Hermit in '08!

[mr715]

80. Excuse me.

The same can be said for Dennis Kucinich.

Dennis Kucinich is superior because he has

(a) a weird, unpresidential last name

(b) the facial expressions of Santa's elves

(c) a problem with women

(d) understands the healing capacity of crystals

(e) gives uninspired and very Goebbles-esque convention speeches

(f) has crap that doesnt smell to his supporters

(g) is just sooo cute in the Wizard of Oz


M

[XemaSab]

94. Well I heard...

Kucinich once ate a conventionally grown potato, owns an undershirt made of domestic cotton grown with unfair subsidies (thereby undercutting prices so that countries like Egypt and Turkey are left without a valuable export commodity), and in college Kucinich owned a car that got 15 miles to the gallon.

Peter the Hermit has a little more integrity than that.

[amjucsc]

72. I doubt that any of those people have a snowball's change in hell...

Maybe Boxer. But after what happened to the last Senator from a blue state, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

[mzmolly]

82. I don't think most of these people will run?

;)

[DemGirl7]

83. Does anyone else feel that Reps. & Senators don't make good Candidates?

I'm sorry but in my personal opinion I don't really think Reps and Senators don't make good candidates for President...it's just they are more easier to label as "flip-flopers" and by judging by the last election...that was hard in trying to disprove...

[Freddie Stubbs]

90. Its been 44 years since a sitting member of Congress has been elected Pres

There is a reason for that. Governors (and to a lesser extent Vice Presidents) seem to make better candidates.

[Mutley]

85. these are all good picks...

however... i still like clark (i know you avid clark haters out there will now hate me as well, and i don't care). where is the 'none of the above' category?

[Crunchy Frog]

97. Well, us Clark lovers will like you for it,

and that will more than make up for the haters hating you.

Welcome to DU and please check out this forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

You need a star to be able to post there, but you can lurk as much as you want without one.:hi:

[Bill Lumbergh]

87. Support Bill Lumbergh

I am a Democrat who drives a sweet-ass ride and I like playing checkers. I also like saying "Yeahhhh..." a lot. You can usually find me talking to Milton in the basement or in my office worrying about corporate accounts receivable.



But if you don't want me, I suggest going with the Bobs, for a co-presidency.




If you're not satisfied with the Bobs or myself then I suggest supporting Russ Feingold. He is almost as cool as me.

Your friend,

Bill Lumbergh

[XemaSab]

95. Excuse me...

I believe you have my stapler?

[NoPasaran]

89. I'm going to say Clark

Assuming Dean is DNC Chair and is out of the running

[LuLu550]

91. Helll-oooooooo!

Gotta be Wes Clark. He was the right person in 2004 and he is the right person in 2008. :bounce:

[Jackie97]

98. Sorry....

but Hilary really does stand the best shot in 2008.

You know, I'm do think some cheating was done by certain people in certain states (like Florida). However, can voter fraud really make up for a gap of three million? I don't believe it can.

I believe it's been an established fact that certain people (probably Republicans) are the ones who make those machines. So, it's assumed that they would cheat. Okay. Why didn't this happen during the Clinton years? Why didn't this happen more on a national scale with Congress? Republicans have Congress, but not by nearly as big of a gap as they would like. How did so many Democrats in my state get elected if the machines are rigged?

With all those people voting, I'm sure it did cause some problems in the machines. Those machines need to be rebuilt and ran by the government (and have nothing to do with companies or any particular political party). However, let's face it. Bush won.

Just like Sharon, Putin, and Karzai won. It's a time of war, and people want their war time President or Prime Minister. I realize you're bitter after the BS Bush pulled in 2000 by becoming president with only the electoral vote. I feel the same way. I can't deny reality though.

I'm not a conservative in disguise, so please don't go hitting the alert button. I'm very leftist. I'm on the left of the left. I'll probably get on most Democrats nerves if I discuss politics (although I'm a registered Democrat). As a progressive, I believe that the way to make change in society is to fight like hell for it. It's not by looking to a messiah in the Democratic Party. History shows that change happens when the people fight for it, not when people wait for some messiah for a leader. I think that's the direction where the efforts of progressives should head toward.