How come BUSH the LIAR doesn't mention the UK's social security DISASTER?

[LynnTheDem]

Oh that's right...because BUSH is a LYING POS.

Conservatives rarely point to Britain's partial state pension privatization program, because it's been a total disaster.

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=8997

STOP LYING TO AMERICA, bush.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. He has smoke perpetually wafting up from his behind

----------------------------------------------------------
Save our country one town, county, and state at a time!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm#why

[whistle]

2. Shhhhhh, Bush is trying to do the same thing in America....

....130,000,000 people's disaster is 453 rich fat cats' gain!

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

3. I like the way that

"Bush the Liar" rolls off the tongue...nice, like these words were always meant to be together...

Quite practical as well, since they have been together for a long time...

[oscar111]

5. Chile ss disaster, too: anyone have stats Chile?Milton Friedman "only 3 th

Friedman quote is at the end here.

milton friedman, econ guru to the RW, craftd the Chile disaster, i think i recall.

Anyone have the good bottom line stats to sum up the Chile disaster?

not partial stats, but good overall ones.

ps milton said "gov should only do army, courts and treasury"
I think we all must tell folks that such is the REAL RW goal... zero welfare, zero college aid, and zero pension ss.. etc for every dem program.

ZERO.

Like ..um, Haiti? anyone know for sure how Haiti is set up?

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[LynnTheDem]

8. Yeah actually it DOES compare.

It IS a strong argument; privatization is a CRAP SHOOT.

Our SS is NOT in a "crisis".

As ALWAYS, bush is LYING to America.

It's that simple.

[Technowitch]

6. You answered your own question, honey: He's a pathetic liar.

[Skittles]

7. Bush Inc has complete disregard for facts

it's all smoke and mirrors. The main objective of tamperin with SS is for the Greedy Old Pig party to reward its biggest thieving fans - the financial sector. They don't give a flying f*** about how it affects WE THE PEOPLE.

[LynnTheDem]

9. EXACTLY.

As bush said; "You're my base; the HAVES and the HAVE-MORES."

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

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[LynnTheDem]

13. Bullshit.

We're not as "naieve" as you think we are.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[LynnTheDem]

19. Bottom line, dear.

BUSH IS LYING HIS ASS OFF.

Period.

[Skittles]

25. our?

republicans are thieving, lying bastards and that ain't no stereotype

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[LynnTheDem]

30. Ahhh yes...the old "loose"...

Uh huh.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

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[Skittles]

37. THAT BASTARD LIED OUR WAY INTO A G.D. WAR

don't EVEN compare that piece of SHIT republican to ANY OTHER *REAL* PRESIDENT

[PA Democrat]

38. Thanks for coming here and spreading right wing talking points

Yes, we dems need to stop being so angry. Yes, those RW talk radio hosts are NEVER angry. Yes, we should have run polite ads like those sweet Swift Boat veterans.

"Blind rage"? Give me a break.

[LynnTheDem]

39. The rightwingnut can't answer you.

THANK YOU, MODS!!!!!

That one REALLY got up my nose, lol!

[PA Democrat]

15. In your dreams

BTW, what does "naieve" mean?

[oscar111]

17. naieve means "a person who lacks certain knowlege because of , usu, being

young or non "worldly". Also used to mean one who is too trusting of evil people.. and the slur slinger usu sees all people as evil, untrustworthy"

both LW and RW use the term... tho i think the RW uses it a bit more than we do.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[Skittles]

36. rich fat cat bastards ARE HIS BASE

nt

[PA Democrat]

33. Don't you mean "naive"?

"naieve" is not in the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary, the American Heritage Dictionary, or Merriam-Webster.

[Skittles]

23. BULLSHIT

he has said it more than once; stop believing FAHRENHYPE 911 GARBAGE

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

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[Skittles]

26. he has said it at several fundraisers

pay $2000 buck and you will hear it too. I work with conservatives who have been at those fundraisers and it's a standard line.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[LynnTheDem]

31. Some people sure do try hard

apologizing for bush.

Let the rightwingnuts apologize for that piece of shit; he's THEIR fault, not ours.

[oscar111]

11. 5 Failures of Bush plan where tried before!

1. the Thirties saw market-based pensions fail. That was the exact reason for our current non-market ss plan. In the early thirties, 225 people outright starved to death in NYC. Hospital records. Who knows how many tens of thousands starved nationwide? Very hard to get these facts, by the way.

2. Britain's ss disaster

3. Chile's ss disaster

4. Argentina's ss disaster

5. Even the now one/fifth RW Sweden had a ss disaster. {the RW lied their way into some power there, just like here}

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[oscar111]

14. N Zealand's "noncontributory ss": anyone know details?

i suppose they get money from general revenue as needed.

Much fairer, it seems to me.

Never any "low ss Fund " crisis or made up crisis.

=====
did u know that folks here who have been unable to earn "quarters" get no ss at all? I hope there is something for them, but i just dont know of any plan.

Anothere reason for NONCONTRIBUTORY ss.

[KittyWampus]

18. Question! Should Democrats Mention Britian's Disaster With SS Reform?

wondering what others think.

[oscar111]

20. Of course, no question. Odd to even think of not mentioning a RW flop.

Mention it a lot.

[LynnTheDem]

21. Of course.

And it ain't going great for Sweden either.

Chile? Disaster.

Argentina? Disaster.

Britain? Disaster.

Even the incredibly clueless rightwingnuts should be able to figure out that gee maybe "privatization" tends to be a DISASTER.

[oscar111]

28. 105 Trillion is US wealth: we COULD pay as we go from General Revenues

there is no crisis.

1O5 Trillion is plenty to cover ss.
==========
Switch thinking now to the 1O Trillion GDP...

Truman's top tax rate of ninety percent.. triple the current pathetic 35%... would add 2. 7 Trillion to revenue.

enough for a new total of 108,000/yr for the average retired couple. Double what they were earning before retirement.

There is no crisis.

=================
now, back for a moment to Wealth:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/accessible/l5.htm

see bottom line for US wealth

==================
OK, now back to the Truman Plan, using his tax rates on the GDP...
enough for every dem program and more.

300 billion to end all poverty
30 billion to double NIH, cutting in half the time to find every new cure
12 b. to end hunger
4 b to end all homelessness

346 b. total.. so 2. 2 Trillion left over for pothole repair, more firefighters, cops, school repair, water main repair, bridge repair, etc. Everything the repubs destroyed during their reign of taxcut madness. Without even touching our US wealth. Just from the GDP each year.

[oscar111]

34. URL above jst now corrected: try it now

,,,,

[PA Democrat]

35. Consider Argentina as well

The Role of Social Security Privatization in Argentina's Economic Crisis

By Dean Baker and Mark Weisbrot <1>

April 16, 2002


In July of 1994, with the strong support of the World Bank, Argentina partially privatized its Social Security system.<2> In December of last year, Argentina finally removed its currency from its peg with the dollar, and halted payments on its debt, after four years of recession. These moves came in response to a situation that had clearly become untenable. The nation was paying ever higher interest rates to finance a debt that was continually growing, due to the country's extraordinary interest burden.<3> By December it was clear that there was no way out of this vicious circle without both a devaluation of the currency and some reduction of the interest burden. Argentina is currently negotiating with the IMF to allow for a resumption of normal credit relations, but regardless of the outcome of these negotiations, it is generally expected that Argentina will see a further large decline in its GDP.

While the decision to peg its currency to the dollar would have created problems in any case, the decision to privatize Social Security made Argentina's situation more precarious. The reason is simple—Social Security privatization deprived the government of a large amount of tax revenue. Payroll taxes that had gone to the government to support the old pay-as-you-go Social Security system were instead diverted to private accounts. As a result, the government lost an amount of revenue that has been estimated at 1.0 percent of annual GDP (the equivalent of $100 billion a year in the United States) (International Monetary Fund, 1998, p 9).

Argentina's government had to borrow to make up for this lost revenue.<4> Argentina was forced to pay a very high interest rate on its new debt, as a result of a series of external events beginning with the US Federal Reserve's interest rate hikes in February of 1994, and the series of emerging market financial crises (Mexico, East Asia, Russia, Brazil) that followed. Therefore, the borrowing that was needed to finance Social Security privatization came at a very high cost. This cost quickly grew, as higher debt led to higher interest payments. Table 1 shows the impact that Social Security privatization had on Argentina's deficits and debt in the years from 1994 to 2001. These calculations assume that no offsetting adjustments were made to Argentina's budget to compensate for these deficits. As can be seen, the deficits created by the lost Social Security tax revenue and resulting interest payments grew rapidly, so that by 2001 they were nearly equal to 3.0 percent of GDP.

http://www.cepr.net/argentina_and_ss_privatization.htm

[KittyWampus]

40. Really Nice Article. Many Thanks!