Kerry on CNN, Dean campaign distributes fliers attacking Gep and Kerry.

[cindyw]

Right after article by Mike Glover quotes Dean asking for end to attacking.

Kerry appeared on CNN's Wolf Blitzer with a flier today that he said was distributed to Iowans just days after an Dean asks for an end to attacks.

KERRY: Well, the voters of Iowa will decide that. But what I will say to you is, I notice that Howard Dean, who yesterday called on people to not be negative, just sent out -- I have it right here -- a negative advertisement about me and Dick Gephardt.

So it looks like Howard Dean is trying to have it both ways. And the fact that he's attacking me, I think, indicates that I'm nipping at his heels and he's worried about it.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0312/21/le.00.html

[KaraokeKarlton]

1. Ahem...

So it looks like Howard Dean is trying to have it both ways. And the fact that he's attacking me, I think, indicates that I'm nipping at his heels and he's worried about it.


Bwahahahahahahahahaha

[mzmolly]

30. I second that

Bwahahahahahahahahaha

[JVS]

41. he must have confused himself with gephardt

[Myra]

2. I guess Dean's not into leading by example?

Too bad.

[mzmolly]

31. One more time...

Bwahahahahahahahahaha

[quinnox]

3. Hypocrisy from Dean

is par for the course. Dean isn't worthy enough to be the nominee of a fine party like the Democratic party, we can do much better.

[Cheswick2.0]

5. hypocrisy from Dean?

really, what does the flyer say?

[quinnox]

9. No, of course you are right

I'm sure the flyer is very complimentary of Kerry and Gephardt. Dean would never say an unkind word about his opponents, just look at recent history.

[LuminousX]

80. Produce a copy of the flier and then we can talk

otherwise it is speculation that the 'attack' is really a personal attack and not a policy attack.

Assume all you want, but without facts, there is no debate.

[Cheswick2.0]

4. this link is to a bush story and again, no information about

what the flyer says. I'd have to read it to believe it was an attack add. At this point if Kerry said the ocean was blue I'd go check before I'd beleive it.

[ibegurpard]

7. Indeed, Cheswick

n/t

[cindyw]

11. The link is to a CNN transcript page.

I can't help it if they talked about Bush on Wolf's show.

[Padraig18]

6. Dupe

I think this may be the second such you posted this afternoon. :eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=13981#14844

PS-- Still no substance regarding what the content of the flyers, either. :shrug:

[sandnsea]

10. It was locked

Too many paragraphs or some such nonsense.

[Padraig18]

12. Uh huh.

So repost the same stuff, and still without any specifics about what the 'attack' is. Okee dokee...:shrug:

[sandnsea]

15. Kind of like the Osama ad

There wasn't and still isn't any evidence linking Kerry and Gephardt to that ad, but the shit still flies.

[drfemoe]

75. Yes . a link has been found

Unions that endorsed Gephardt donated to group airing anti-Dean ads

Several labor unions that endorsed Dick Gephardt donated $50,000 apiece to a group broadcasting commercials that question Democratic presidential rival Howard Dean's credentials, including one spot that features Osama bin Laden and two others that align the former Vermont governor with President Bush.

One of the unions, the International Association of Machinists, called Tuesday for the group, Americans for Jobs, Healthcare and Progressive Values, to pull the ad and release the names of its financial backers. Other labor unions that gave money to the group include the Laborers International Union of North America and the Ironworkers Union, both of which have endorsed Gephardt for president.

"The ads are despicable and we ought to ask for the refund," said Rick Sloan, a spokesman for the International Association of Machinists. "They've done more to damage Dick Gephardt than anything any of his opponents could have done or dreamed of doing." ... con't

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/12/16/politics1842EST0673.DTL

[sandnsea]

76. Much much much later

The accusations came out of thin air, no ad had been run, no info was available. Just pure innuendo. That's how these Osama accusations started, there's nothing to support them, and yet they continue to get recycled in the press and here on DU. What's good for the goose and all.

[TeacherCreature]

84. no evidence?

there is planty of evidence. Their campaign workers made that adds.

[cindyw]

14. I guess I had a misleading title too.

I think this one is clear. I have no problems trying post under rules.

[maddezmom]

8. does anyone know

the content of the flyer?

[cindyw]

13. I'm just repeating Kerry's claim.

n/t

[maddezmom]

16. I don't doubt Kerry for a minute

wonder if anyone that goes to the Kerry blog has seen anything. Would just like to know the content. :)

[IndianaGreen]

17. Kerry also claimed that Saddam had WMD

Kerry is so full of shit that he is beginning to sound like Lieberman and Bush more and more each day. In the transcript one can almost hear Kerry accuse Saddam of trying to ice a fellow Skull & Bones member:

KERRY: I think that The Washington Post editorialized and called Howard Dean's view "ludicrous."

I think that for a major candidate for the presidency of the United States not to understand that the removal of a dictator who required our troops to go to war and die in the early 1990s, who invaded another country, who attempted to assassinate a former president of the United States, who lobbed 36 missiles into Israel to destabilize the Middle East, who developed and used weapons of mass destruction against another people and his own people, and who was pursuing a further nuclear program than we thought he was, when our own inspectors were in his country destroying those weapons -- for a major candidate not to understand that the capture of that man makes America safer, I think, shows an extraordinary lack of understanding of foreign policy and national security.

We are safer with the removal of Saddam Hussein. Do we still have very significant issues with the war on terror? Of course we do. But to confuse the two, I think, shows a lack of understanding. The fact is that we can run a far more effective war on terror. I wrote a book six years ago about how to do it. There's much that we can do that we're not doing. The most important thing we need is cooperation with other countries, the very thing that this administration is worst at.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0312/21/le.00.html

Kerry is a total puke! Kerry voted for IWR because is believes in the PNAC agenda as much as Bush does!

[XanaDUer]

23. So did Dean...

Here:

Transcript from a March 9, 2003 Appearance on "Meet the Press"


"...MR. RUSSERT: In 1999, the inspectors left Iraq. They compiled this report, and it is replete with intelligence data about what Saddam possesses. The Council on Foreign Relations did an analysis of this report. And let me show you. “Does Iraq have weapons of mass destruction?” “Yes.” And then you were asked the same question by the Roll Call people. “I would be surprised if didn’t have ” So you would agree that he probably does.
MR. DEAN: Oh, yeah, I think that’s likely.
MR. RUSSERT: OK. Let me go back to the Council on Foreign Relations. “Iraq has admitted that it produced 3,859 tons of chemical weapons in the 1980s, including mustard gas and lethal nerve agents such as sarin, tabun, and VX. When Iraq expelled the inspectors in 1998, it allegedly retained 6,000 chemical bombs, as well as 550 artillery shells filled with mustard gas and some amount of VX.”
That is devastating evidence. With that kind of arsenal, why would you want Saddam Hussein to stay in power with control over those weapons of mass destruction?
MR. DEAN: I don’t want Saddam to stay in power with control over those weapons of mass destruction. I want him to be disarmed. We’re talking about whether the United Nations goes it alone or essentially alone or whether—excuse me, whether the United States goes it alone or essentially alone or whether the United Nations does its duty and disarms Saddam. I would prefer to work through the United Nations..."

The entire transcript here at this link:

http://www.drake.edu/artsci/faculty/sshulman/Dean/Meetthepress.htm

**********************************************************************

In a similar vein:

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/000940.html


So, if Kerry is full of shite, so is Dean.

[madfloridian]

29. Kerry said it today. See the transcript.

Does Kerry still believe that?

[IndianaGreen]

32. Kerry voted for the war when we were counting on him to oppose Bush.

Kerry let us down, and now we must let him down, as far as his Presidential ambitions are concerned. We have a good group of antiwar candidates to rally around: Clark, Dean, Kucinich, Mosley-Braun, Sharpton.

Who needs Kerry now?

[sandnsea]

35. Dean used the war for his own ambitions

When I was counting on all the candidates to stay straight at Bush on the intelligence over the summer, Dean used it to attack the other candidates in order to pump himself up. For that, I will never forgive him.

[IndianaGreen]

38. and we will never forgive Kerry for his IWR

So as you can see, Kerry is as good as dead. The entry of Wes Clark in the race has pulled the rug from under Kerry. Kerry can no longer claim his war record and foreign policy experience as assets.

[clarknyc]

39. And I will never forgive Kerry

For the IWR vote. I guess we're even.

[Rose Siding]

43. Kerry's vote is a fact

Your conclusion about Dean's motives is subjective. I'm glad there was someone to hold them accountable and to oppose Bush.

[KittyWampus]

46. Dean's Opposition Is Subjective

all we have is his OPINION on what he'd have done.

[clarknyc]

50. Clark's Opposition Is Subjective

all we have is his OPINION on what he'd have done (as well).

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

55. Ouch!

[drfemoe]

68. He stood up to the

pro war, pro nclb, pro tax cut, pro patriot act democrats long before last summer! And for that I will always thank him.

[Andromeda]

78. Kerry lost all his credibility with me when he voted for IWR...

Dean's stance on the war has been consistent---even before it was popular. He's made his position crystal clear and I respect him for it.

The candidate I will never forgive is Kerry. Kerry thought if he voted with Bush he would help his political career. His vote had nothing to do with principle---just political opportunism IMHO. Kerry has been completely two-faced and continues to take part in these back-stabbing maneuvers that only make him look worse. He should get off Dean's back and drop out of the race.

Kerry needs to remain in the Senate where he can pontificate to his heart's content and hopefully help pass some meaningful legislation that will be good for America---for a change.

[oasis]

18. Minor screw up. Obviously just another Trippi/Dean miscommunication.

Why do the other candidates react in such a petty manner when they know that a Dean apology will soon be forthcoming. :shrug:

At least that's been the pattern.

[clarknyc]

19. What did the flyer say?

I'm sure if it's an authentic attack, it will be posted at the Kerry website. Right?

[clarknyc]

21. Just checked

Nope. Nothing posted at the blog or the campaign website, just links to the CNN story. Which means this continues to be an unsubstantiated charge.

So what did it say, Senator?

[clarknyc]

48. Just checked again

Still no reference to the "attack" flyer on the Kerry websites. I wonder why. Does anyone know?

[unfrigginreal]

20. LOL - Kerry says someone else is "trying to have it both ways"

That's pretty funny. :7

[quinnox]

22. Dean needs to denounce this and apologize

How could Dean say he is tired of attack politics and then the next day his campaign distributes flyers that attack his opponents. Smacks of rank hypocrisy, and Dean should apologize if he has any credibility.

[clarknyc]

24. Why?

Until the Kerry campaign tells anyone what the flyer actually says, it simply remains an allegation. What does the flyer actually say?

[madfloridian]

28. What did the flyers say? I need to know that to make a decision.

Thanks.

[LuminousX]

81. And if the flyers don't exist, or were actually 10 pieces printed up

and handed out by people not associated with the campaign? What then?

I'm not saying Kerry doesn't have the right to 'be outraged' but I have a feeling he is once again stepping in front of the train to cry victim.

[babzilla]

25. do you have the content of the flyer yet?

Kerry whipped it out of his pocket on Blitzer, but I couldn't quite read it. What did it say?

How can we judge whether Dean is "trying to have it both ways" unless we know the content of the flyer?

I have checked the Kerry and the Dean site and no luck yet.

Please advise.

[zulchzulu]

82. Screenshot of Kerry with negative flyer on CNN interview

[maddezmom]

83. can you make out what it says?

How come it's not on the Kerry's website? or is it and I just can't find it.

[zulchzulu]

85. I'm guessing it's about the Osama ads

Kerry mentioned that the ad was directed at him and Gephardt, so I figure it's a hit piece on the Osama ads which the Dean camp smeared that they were responsible for (without any proof, of course).

[Scott Lee]

26. How many threads are you going to post about this, cindy?

Again I have to remark on the glaring lack of material coming from the attack Dean camp these days.

Wassup, guys? Well running a little dry there?

[madfloridian]

27. I did not know Kerry thought this still.

I found this statement. I am very surprised to know that Kerry said this, especially in light of the fact of the orange alert today.

SNIP.." think that for a major candidate for the presidency of the United States not to understand that the removal of a dictator who required our troops to go to war and die in the early 1990s, who invaded another country, who attempted to assassinate a former president of the United States, who lobbed 36 missiles into Israel to destabilize the Middle East, who developed and used weapons of mass destruction against another people and his own people, and who was pursuing a further nuclear program than we thought he was, when our own inspectors were in his country destroying those weapons -- for a major candidate not to understand that the capture of that man makes America safer, I think, shows an extraordinary lack of understanding of foreign policy and national security.

Did we establish that Iraq was pursuing a further nuclear program while the inspectors were in there?

I missed that. I apologize if I am wrong.

[sandnsea]

33. Yes, in 1995-96

Somewhere in there. That was when the IAEA was about to clear Iraq and the defector came out with information that led the IAEA to the nuclear program. And it was alot further along than anybody had imagined.

[clarknyc]

36. So

What did Clinton do to quell that at the time? Something must have happened because there's no evidence of it now.

BTW, is the defector's information still legitimate, or was it discredited somewhere along the way?

[IndianaGreen]

The "defector" was Chalabi

who had not lived in Iraq in 30 years.

Kerry believed in Chalabi and did not believe in Scott Ritter. What a jerk!

[sandnsea]

62. No, it was Khidhir Hamza in 1995

This is when the IAEA uncovered the program. This is why they have uranium under seal in Iraq.

And I never said I didn't believe Scott Ritter. I quoted his words from 1998 to show that there is more to what he has to say than what people are willing to believe or understand.

[madfloridian]

40. Oh, I thought he was referring to this set of inspectors.

Sorry. Yes, that would have been Hussein Kamel, Saddam's son in law, I think.

I have a few articles about that. Need to go back and read them. So Kerry realizes that most of the nuclear ability was gone by this invasion?

On Edit
Oops, just saw IG's post, so might have been Chalabi.

[IndianaGreen]

49. Hussein Kamel, told us that Saddam had destroyed all of his WMD

He told us this while in Jordan. If you remember, he returned to Iraq, together with another of Saddam's sons in law, after their wives pleaded with them because they were homesick. Saddam had them executed.

[madfloridian]

52. Is he the one who left with documents and papers...testified at UN?

....that the weapons had pretty much been destroyed? We were discussing this on here once, that his interview with the UN was still on record there.

Then he went back and was murdered. Yes, now it is coming back. Wasn't that UN testimony even online at one point?

I would think if we know about him that our congressmen would as well. Maybe not.

[IndianaGreen]

53. I cannot remember anything about the UN

I am sure he was interviewed while in Jordan.

[madfloridian]

57. Yes, in Amman. I found a whole page on this at Fair.org. Interesting.

http://www.fair.org/press-releases/kamel.html

This is from February 2003, and some of the links may be outdated. There is a link to the full transcript of Kamel's interview uncovered by Glen Rangwala,the Cambridge University analyst who in early February revealed that Tony Blair's "intelligence dossier" was plagiarized from a student thesis.

Well worth the read. It was good to find I was remembering correctly. There has been so much pro-war stuff lately, that we tend to forget what was going on before the invasion.

[IndianaGreen]

59. Excellent find, madfloridian!

You are also right that we are forgetting a lot of the stuff that went on before the invasion.

[sandnsea]

64. What's this got to do with the IWR vote???

That's what I can't figure out. What the hell does any of this have to do with voting in October 2002?

[IndianaGreen]

66. The point is that we knew Saddam had destroyed his WMD stockpile

at the end of the Gulf War, and that this information was readily available to the public, as well as to the members of Congress's intelligence committees, who apparently prefer to rubber-stamp whatever the government does than to exercise their oversight duties.

[madfloridian]

69. Actually, IG, this deserves a post of its own, not hidden.

I also have an article or so about Kamel that I could add. It would not really be a dupe would it, if you started it? I could later on with the article.

Alas we have forgotten a lot.

[IndianaGreen]

74. It is close to my bedtime

but I think it will be good to post some of this info sometime tomorrow.

[sandnsea]

72. Not all of it

Not even according to Scott Ritter. He himself said Saddam was likely to have bio/chem weapons within 6 months of inspectors leaving. And that wasn't the entire issue or even the main issue in October 2002. It was reconstituting the same buildings in the same ways that they had been used before.

It was enough of a new threat to get inspectors back into Iraq. The entire world agreed. That's all. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

[Meshuga]

79. Kerry Said In His Floor Speech No Nukes, No Imminent Threat

The selective bold letters make it seem like he is saying that this is a current thing, but he was talking about the hijinks that surrounded the UNSCOM inspections - which were a circus on both sides.

Saddam had lost his nuclear program after the Gulf War, but had retained his nuclear scientists - you know, the ones he refused to let be interviewed earlier this year - and all intelligence indicated that he was interested in starting up again (and not publicly!).

Saddam's record of screwing with UNSCOM, playing Security Council nations like Russia that Iraq owed tons of money against the US, the fact that they were still finding major VX deposits a month before Operation Fox, and that Saddam was already talking about re-establishing the bullsh*t "Presidential zones" of no inspections led both Bill Clinton and John Kerry to believe that the real threat of force was the only way to hold gamemaster Saddam accountable.

[mzmolly]

34. Kerry commented some time ago that in politics your either on offense

or defense. He knows how the game is played. Too bad for him he's losing.

[sandnsea]

37. Kerry plays defense best

Dean is now on offense. Dean is now under the horrific media scrutiny of the "frontrunner". Welcome to the game.

[madfloridian]

44. That was sweet.

Thank you.

[mzmolly]

47. OK?

:crazy:

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

42. Don't you feel dirty after posting

this garbage?

[AWD]

45. Come on Kerry...

Nipping at his heels?

Come on Kerry.....You need a bike courier with binoculars to even SEE Dean's heels.

[Nazgul35]

51. Just three points....

First, I agree with many here that we in fact need to see exactly what the plyer stated....going by Kerry's past laments about what was an attack doesn't lend me to think it was that bad...

Second, this is an extremely decentralized campaign...that flyer could have been made up by any Dean supporter....and done without the approval of the Dean campaign...so claiming that it was sponsored by the campaign is rather stretching it unless he can verify it was...

Third, anyone could have made this thing up and handed it out if it was done at the local level....

I think everyone is so eager to find something negative about Dean that they run amok with the first wiff of rumor available to them....so everyone take a deep breath and let's see if the Kerry campaign posts it on their web page....

After all, Dean has appoligized before for mistake he has made...I however am waiting for my apology from the senate Dems over a plethora of spine-lacking events that I havent gotten yet....how long do you think i'll have to wait for that?!

[killbotfactory]

54. "Sure we're running a slimeball negative campaign against Dean..."

"...but at least we're honest about it!"

Anyone have this flyer?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

58. I just wiped my ass with it...

...still want to read it?

[killbotfactory]

61. Nah... that's okay....

I take it that because Kerry didn't quote anything off of the flyer, that this is just a negative campaign ploy to attack Dean.

[babzilla]

63. could be

we'll know for sure when the OP supplies the contents of the shit stained flyer.

[Tom Rinaldo]

56. Without reading the Flyer

I can't reach any judgement about who if anyone was being underhanded here. In fairness to Dean I am reminded about Shelton's "statement" on Clark with nothing to back it up. Kerry said "I have the flyer right here". Since he made an issue of it, I think he should let others judge also if he is right about it being an attack from Dean. It may very well be. I doubt Kerry is making up that charge out of thin air, but maybe it isn't an "attack", maybe the flyer pointed out policy differences. Who knows but Kerry?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

60. "I have, here in my hand, a list of Communist sympathizers."

-Joseph McCarthy

[clarknyc]

65. Yeah

That one popped up in my head also...

Anyone know what the flyer said? Bueller???

[drfemoe]

67. The mysterious 'attack' flyer ..

could it be something like this? >>
We know John Kerry’s been attacking Dean on guns, and Dick Gephardt’s been attacking Dean on Medicare and NAFTA. And just two months ago the New York Times reported that, “at least at a staff level, the Gephardt and Kerry campaigns… are sharing information about Dr. Dean that helps fuel each another's attacks.”

Maybe it’s all a coincidence that this new secretive group-- founded just last month-- has picked up the same line of attack that Kerry and Gephardt have been using for months.

We hope that their campaigns would have nothing to do with this ad—the type of ad that Senator Kerry denounced as “political hate speech” when one like it was used against Senator Max Cleland in the 2002 election.

Will the Kerry and Gephardt campaigns, as well as the other campaigns, now step forward as Kerry did for Cleland and denounce this ad, as all Democrats should do?

http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/002665.html

Put me in the line with those who don't believe a word from the mouth of John Kerry.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

71. No, no, no.

Nothing like that.

[mouse7]

70. This is the thread with "phantom" flier, right?

Has the ghost revealed itself yet?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

73. Yes.

[Hippo_Tron]

77. Time to once again throw my support behind Clark...

Who does not appear to be heavily involved in the bashing of his fellow candidates. It's a shame the things that they are saying of each other as I think that some of these people would be great on the ticket together but frankly I don't think they can be after what they've said about each other.