Stick a fork in Kerry, he's done.

[MikeG]

There are no second acts in politics anymore.

The last was Nixon, and two Democrats had to be assassinated first before that could work.

Lets get someone else. How about Dean?

[Ratboca]

1. agree

John WHO???

[roguevalley]

2. Clark

[billbuckhead]

12. Dean's an NRA stooge from a state with a pop. smaller than Columbus Ohio

Why don't women or black people get a chance instead of another ivy league white guy who uses the Confederate flag to reach out to people who won't vote for us anyway.

[w4rma]

19. You are totally obsessed with doing away with gun rights, aren't you? (nt)

[billbuckhead]

24. Where did I say that I want to do away with "gun rights"?

I said Dean is an NRA stooge who brags about his "A" rating though he spins it in some venues as not an "endoresment".

[w4rma]

26. The NRA is the most well known NGO that fights for our gun rights

much like the ACLU is the most well known NGO that fights for the rest of the Bill of Rights.

[billbuckhead]

46. The NRA has an enemies list of prominent liberals

and such freedom hating institutions as the League of Women's voters.

[RafterMan]

22. Is it impossible

to support gun ownership without being an NRA stooge?

I like Dean's idea that gun laws should be made on the local level -- not every place has the same requirements, so why try to shoehorn them all into the same pattern?

[billbuckhead]

25. Dean brags about his NRA endorsements.

Dean even paints a picture of the gun owner in his pickup truck with a Confederate flag sticker on it. It offends me.

[Harry S Truman]

41. Great!

Guns are OUR issue! Damn repukes stole it, and the NRA uses it. When we take back the gun-rights issue, we'll gain more support from the rural vote than you could ever imagine. Right here in Pa., a lot of gun people voted for Kerry because they know * couldn't carry a gun unless it was full of cocaine. Dean is right with this, but IMHO if he ever got the nomination, the NRA, which doesn't really give a shit about gun rights as much as it cares about the Repuke party, would probably turn on him.
Gun rights = good
NRA = hypocrites

[JVS]

23. I had no idea that Clark was either female or black

[Grooner Five]

29. If we're going to support a person...

based only on them being black or female, we might as well vote for Clarence Thomas or Condi Rice.

I think it's better to focus on qualifications rather than race or gender. Voting on skin color or gender alone could easily be defined as "racist" or "sexist."

[billbuckhead]

50. That's why we've never a woman or minority

Let's never give anyone but an Ivy League rich white guy a chance. If not now, when?

[iwantmycountryback]

54. If there are any black or female candidates better than Dean

I'll be glad to have them. However, Wellington Webb is not nearly as good as Dean. Nor is Donna Brazile, who I have a hard time telling if she is even a Democrat.

[LittleClarkie]

65. Why did I just get an image of Dean in black face and a dress

I'll tell you why. Two reasons: I demented and sad, and I've run out of caffeine.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

42. Indeed

[purduejake]

3. He didn't stand up for us...

He brought it upon himself. Many people would be better than Kerry.

[merwin]

9. Not to start the Kerry fight again, but

if he had stood up and fought and fought his political career would have been OVER. He would have cried fraud, and the Repugs would have tore him a new one. Now, at least, his image with the general population is still good (note that DU is not representative of the general population).

[merwin]

4. Lately there's been a number of oddities, such as

No president ever being re-elected with a lower than 50% approval rating, etc, etc.

[meppie-meppie not]

67. well, that was very true but that was before Diebold...nt

[Mojambo]

5. I think Kerry is a good and honorable man

and any work he does in the next 4 years will be greatly appreciated...

That being said, I won't be supporting him in 2008.

[franksumatra]

14. I voted for him, but was really disappointed

Who else could I have voted for? I think he's too old school. We need fighters, to take on these monstrous Republicans.

[IndianaGreen]

6. But, but, he is talking to Chirac right now.... in French!

Why didn't Kerry do this before the elections, when it would have made a real impression, is indicative of a lack of political judgment.

[merwin]

11. Kerry would have been skewered and labeled a Frenchie.

Name calling goes far with them, and seems to actually work.

[pretzel4gore]

31. if that's so

and you're correct in thinking that a majority of americans see kerry's fluency in one of the world's main languages as a bad thing and such a mindset implies that they're as coarse and brutish as the bush gangsters are....means that the war is over and the good guys lost, period. in that case let's eat drink and be merry (lol)

[Eloriel]

44. By all means

let's continue to live our lives -- each and every one of us -- under the control of Repugs by being mindful of what the Repugs may do, say, or call us under any given circumstance. I'm sure it will be a much more productive way to live.

[FrenchieCat]

47. I'm French (but Naturalized American).....

and Kerry ain't getting my vote in 2008 either....conversation with Chirac or with no Chirac!

[Downtown Hound]

7. Dean or Clark would be fine with me

[secedeeconomically]

8. I agree. At this point I’ll vote for a pickle before Dubya

[saltpoint]

10. Your predictions about Kerry's electoral chances --

-- may or may not be right, but to his credit, he is in France, he is in the Middle East, he is here and there on the globe in discourse with nations' leaders, iin effect doing Dubya's job for him.

It reflects poorly on the U.S. when a sitting president can't stand up for himself, in part because he behaved like such an infantile little shit in the months leading up to an unprovoked assault on a sovereign nation.

I'm glad Kerry is representing us in Syria and France, for example, instead of Dubya, who probably can't find either of the two countries on a map.

[babylonsister]

13. I just hope Kerry

regales us with stories of his travels, so much so that the MSM picks it up and everyone hears about what he's been up to, if for nothing else than to disgrace *. Oh, wait, he's pretty much above being disgraced, or he'd have slung off into the sunset long ago.

[saltpoint]

15. Kerry might be more at ease with his defeat --

-- than Dubya is with his "victory" -- and you probably know why I put 'victory' in quotes there.

I wonder if anyone has sat Dubya down to tell him that history might not be that kind to his presidency.

As it stands now, it's pretty much a trail of deceit and bloodshed, much of it needless.

Yuck. Bush is bad news.

[LittleClarkie]

18. I just hope he's in the Condi hearings

And that he talks tougher about her than he did in the Rolling Stone. There he said he didn't know that much about her, but that she seemed a smart woman.

Rumsfeld, on the other hand, he tore a new ahole. He really doesn't like Rummy, thinks he incompetent.

Right now I'm more interested in Kerry the Senator. I have local races to worry about before 2008 rolls around.

[saltpoint]

39. Yes. Kerry and Rummy don't seem to be --

-- the best of friends, do they?

Well, I'm not crazy about Rumsfeld either.

I'd kind of like to see him on the next Greyhound out of town.

[fujiyama]

51. Does anyone like Rummy

other than Cheney and Bush?

I've noticed that Hagel and McCain seem to really dislike him as well.

Don't forget the Europeans...

He seems to be good at making enemies...and having people hate him. He really does seem to be an incompetant fool.

[saltpoint]

69. Yes. I wonder if after the elections at the end of --

-- this month if Rumsfeld will pick a late Friday afternoon and resign from Defense.

[Pirate Smile]

56. How long has it been since Kerry first called for Rummy's resignation?

Years?

[LittleClarkie]

16. Says he doesn't wanna if they can't fix the vote

How about Al Gore?

[Paulie]

17. Who?

All I hear is the sound of crickets chirping...

[LittleClarkie]

Look out for that plague of locusts

I hear they can be murder.

[welshTerrier2]

20. hmmmm ... not sure ...

no second acts ?? hmmmmm ... wasn't there something recently about a "comeback kid" ... i think it was in the papers ... Bill something or other ...

regardless of his loss, regardless of "he didn't stand up for us", and regardless of his damned position on Iraq, my two cents is the jury is still out on Kerry ... the real battle for leadership has yet to be fought and it's not clear to me who will emerge ...

[Dr Fate]

21. Kerry died in my heart when I opened his cowardly Jan 6 email.

Where he told me that he would not fight against voter fraud, but told me to call Bill Frist & Denny Hassert. "Its up to you" were hthe words someone told him to use. What a joke.

So long John, and thanks for all the fish.

[New Earth]

27. nope, i'll stick with Kerry thanks

[zann725]

68. Me too.

Fool that I am.

[rockymountaindem]

28. Wouldn't Dean trying to get the nomination also be a second act?

He didn't get it this time, Kerry did. That means that Kerry got 1 step closer than anyone else. It seems to me that would indicate that he's a better choice than any of the others who ran this time.

I'm not saying he is, but since winning is everything in politics, then Kerry sure came a lot closer than Dean ever did.

I guess by your standards, all the candidates from 2008 would be unable to compete. That includes Edwards, Clark and Dean, who many here are very fond of. Are you still going to rule out second acts?

[Mend]

30. Kerry is healing his bruised ego

which is a good thing for him but doesn't do much for us.

[Darth_Kitten]

32. of course there are.....

You can run more than once.:)

[LittleClarkie]

34. Just wait. Some day you won't have John Kerry to kick around any more

He'll just take his wife's cloth coat, and his little dog, Checkers and go.

Kerry pulling a Nixon. Oh, the irony.

[LittleClarkie]

35. Delete

delete

[hamerfan]

36. I dunno...

I've been a member here for almost three years although I don't post much. I am ready to go full Libertarian. I have never voted Repug but I have voted Independent (Anderson in 1980 and Perot in 1992). Dem's just seem to be the lesser of two evils anymore. Look at how they're worried about their stand on abortion, immigration, etc. They still lick the corporate hand. Sure, I know I'll never see a Libertarian elected President, at least I'll sleep better after voting. Comments?

[Pirate Smile]

59. I'm hoping one big lesson they learned in 2004 is that we do NOT

need to "lick the corporate hand".

The people will dish out $$$ both big and small. Money wasn't a problem.

It is a bigger problem to sell our soul to keep the Corporations happy.

[Gay Ranger]

38. And He Will Get Carved Up Again...

A lot of people bought into what the Swiftboat Vets had to say and Kerry is not going to get them back. There is the flip-flopper issue that he is now defined by, that is not going to go away. The "I voted for it; before I voted against it" flub.

Dean was not exposed to the extent that Kerry was. Dean's only negative was that yell in Iowa, but I am sure that can be explained away as passion, which is what it was.

Kerry's lack of charisma is a big detriment when fighting of the allegations mentioned above. His infuriating penchant for nuance is no help either. People voted for Bush IN SPITE of all his baggage, people were turned off by Kerry by all of his. If people don't like a guy, his faults will seem much bigger the the faults of a guy they do like.

Kerry is a good man and he may be what works for Massachusetts, but he is not the kind of candidate who will inspire people on a national level. Just look at how dismally he did in the South. A do over may work for some people, but sadly Kerry is not one of them.

[Slickriddles]

64. Yeah, but if you run more than twice

You will be compared to Adlai Stevenson, which ain't a good thing.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[babylonsister]

40. Excuse me, I don't agree, and realize you're

entitled to your opinion, but I wish you'd tone yourself down. Kerry would have been so much better than what we wound up with, but to insinuate the deaths in the next 4 years are a result of his actions is total bullshit. Even if he were prez, it's going to take a long time to resolve this bloody mess in Iraq.

[LittleClarkie]

37. Kerry Krishna... Kerry Krishna... Krishna ... Krishna...

Kerry ... Kerry...

(pins carnation on Mike G and dances away with tamborine)

Kerry Krishnaaa... Kerry Krishnnnaaaaa....

[lojasmo]

43. I can only hope. N/T

Dean got me, and lots of folks like me, involved in politics. I'm now on our county central committee, and thinking of running for school board.

kerry has been bending a knee for the bush administration for the last four years, hoping to remain "electable" how'd that work out, anyway?

[Radical Activist]

45. But didn't Dean run and lose

So there are no second acts...except for Dean?

[zulchzulu]

66. Hush your mouth, boy :->

You just interrupted another perfectly uninformed petty Kerry bashing thread.

Let's gather around the circle again folks!

Now load your weapons.

OK...

SHOOT!!!

[graywarrior]

48. How much longer are we going the Kerry this on.

This is so fucking old now.

[LittleClarkie]

61. As long as they still have breast enough to beat I suppose

I would think they'd be concave by now.

[Redleg]

49. Yeah, we Dems need to keep kicking our candidates to the curb.

Perhaps after we abuse a few more of them no Dem will want to run for office.

[LittleClarkie]

52. They're our sidekicks

We do enjoy kicking them to the side.

[Laurab]

53. Well, I can't join the Kerry bash or anything

but what I think I'm going to do is see what these people do in the next 4 years (or less, hopefully less - how many crimes can these guys commit?) A LOT can change in 4 years (or less), and so I think maybe I'll hold off on deciding who I'm voting for until then.

If nothing happens to fix the voting process, I may not vote at all, cause my vote won't be counted. Why go through the charade and the expense and the trouble I did this year if that's the case?

Nope, I think I'll hold off and see who I think the best candidate is in '08, and whether my vote is going to count. Until then I'm just going to watch what happens with election reform, social security, and all the other upcoming battles. Also, I want to try to work to make that vote count, and do whatever I can to keep dummya from doing too much more damage.

I'm a Kerry fan, I believe he won, and I have no problem at all with him. Still, who's to say who the best candidate will be in 4 years? I'm far more worried about what's happening NOW.

[LittleClarkie]

60. Indeed. A popular County Exec in my state will be gunning for Gov

I need to save our Dem Gov! The Exec is too Blackwell-like for my tastes, as in "had control of the ballots and was also co-chair of the Bush campaign." He tried to short or minority areas on their ballots. With the turnout looking like a record-breaker, he tried to give us fewer ballots than in 2000 or 2002, and then accused us of wanting three times the number we needed. Well, yeah, same as in the other years. They only wanted about 500 more per ward. The guy didn't give me the creeps until this election, but he does now. I hope the minorities remember what he tried to do.

I do NOT want to go Red next time around. Having a Dem Gov will be key. Sooo, I will watch Kerry, but I ain't fretting over his chances until we get much, much closer. I have a Dem Gov to rescue first.

[sistersofmercy]

55. Geez, I'm tired of the post election Kerry bashing!

I love John Kerry and yes, I'm disappointed about the election, no, I'm pissed but he did his absolute best and I'm still a supporter of his. If JK runs in 08 I'll be there to support him again. I hope he does! Peace!

[LittleClarkie]

57. Wouldn't be so bad if they were anchored to some event

rather than a free-floating "By the way, in case you were wondering, I'm still pissed at Kerry" out-of-the-blue thread.

[Laurab]

63. Maybe a special forum - what stage of Kerry bashing are you in?

In case anyone IS wondering. I'm sure as hell not wondering. I just think "oh no, ANOTHER one?"

LittleClarkie, your posts crack me up sometimes!

[Freddie Stubbs]

58. Bill Clinton lost a race for Congress back in the 70's

His second act was pretty impressive.

[osaMABUSh]

62. Kerry or not - it may not matter - can a repuke win in '08

if * has another 4 years to fuck up? OK, we know 58,000,000 Americans (give or take a few million) were stupid enough to vote Bush. But my thinking is that the Iraq War will be such an obvious mistake in a couple of years and * will have nothing to show for it or anything else that the 'worst president ever' label may finally sink in.

I'd like to see Dean as the party head to get us back to being Dems and not repub-lite. Then get a popular Dem Governor not from the Northeast to take the Whitehouse in '08.