I'm sorry, but NBD is a ludicrous position and points to the real problem.

[bhunt70]

The real problem of the democratic party. Specifically the "winnowing down" of each candidate based on one issue or so, thus casting aside another candidate who doesn't hold this litmus test view.

First, Howard Dean is not dissimilar to other candidates. Many of his views are similar to views held by Kucinich, Clark, Kerry, et al.
I'm not doing the research for you, there are similarities between many of the candidates...you want someone who didn't VOTE for the war, the go Kucinich, Clark, Sharpton...You want someone who doesn't like Bush, vote any of them. There are a myriad of issues that are similar, far more than are different.

Second, Howard Dean is not the first populist to run a campaign, nor will he be the last. If it is any indication, his showing in Iowa didn't show much of a populist movement at all. Sure, that's only Iowa you might say, but what about Idaho, North Dakota, Alaska...? I find it hard to conceive of a firebrand that moonlights as a populist, seeing as how many people don't exactly feel comfortable with that manner of discourse. Some people may not like the president but still respect the office... I hardly think Dean is a populist of any great magnitude, just the one who got to carry that mantle in this race. Look at Edwards or Kucinich, look at the people who have shown up for these guys.

Third, Dean didn't/won't save the democratic party. I understand the support, I feel like Clark is something special also, but I make no bones about it that Clark will change some small things in the party, inching us over to a more copacetic position on the political scale. I am sure every candidates supporters feel this way, and they are right. Truthfully though, we won't have a new invigorated democratic party that sheds all vestiges of its former self. Every candidate has the opportunity to bring new people into the party. What good are the new people in the party if they leave if their "dog" doesn't win the race. Are we sunshine democrats or are we here for the long haul?

Seriously, think about it. We are all mad at George Bush and his cronies. We want them out at all costs, right?! Don't give me the crap about voting on principle, not one of the candidates are pure and like I said before I challenge any one of you to take a view from your candidate that is unique and not be able to find a similar one with another candidate or it's reasonable alternative.

Voting on principle is getting that jerk out of office.

[KissMyAsscroft]

1. I wouldn't pay much attention to it...

Some of them are disruptors.

Some of them are just upset.

Some of them might acutally want four more years of Bush, which makes them completely insane and hypocritical.

I am a Dean supporter, yet I will vote for any of the Dem frontrunners over Bush.

[lastliberalintexas]

2. I disagree on one major point

Dean is the only candidate I have any faith in to fire McAuliffe. Prior to yesterday, I would have included Kucinich in that group, but now I'm not so sure. Maybe Sharpton could be included- I'm not so sure how he feels about things, either.

I agree that most of them have very similar positions on the issues. But they have an *entirely* different idea of how much fight our party should have. The last 3 years haven't been hell for me because Shrub was president- they've been hell because my party has rolled over and played dead!!! I will neither forgive nor forget the treatment and actions of our supposed Dem "leaders" over the past 3 years.

And just a year ago, probably 99% of the posters here agreed with that sentiment. I guess things have changed so that we can support candidates, rather than a real Dem platform.

[bhunt70]

3. good point.

I do think McCauliffe is a problem and it is possible that The Governor would fire him, but I don't doubt that others may do the same. All of the candidates are running on fire and backbone, something which is lacking with McCauliffe I think. Is he a bad democrat, no I don't think so, I just think he's the wrong one for the job. With that being said I don't think we should hire the axeman just because he's the only one with the stomach to behead the old king.

edit- I don't mean to imply with that last sentence that I wouldn't vote for Dean, just that I think others can do the job just as well.

[lastliberalintexas]

4. Perhaps

And for the record, I'm not actually a NBD person. But given their relative similarities on the issues, this is something I'd like to see discussed by the candidates. Yes, I know they can't actually come out and directly say how and when McAuliffe will be fired. But even a coded discussion would be greatly appreciated. :)

And I guess my other problem is that some of our candidates are *now* running with backbone. But I have to ask- where were they when it came to voting on the Patriot Act, Homeland Security, IWR, NCLB, tax cuts, etc.? Dean, Kucinich, Sharpton and Braun made it possible for the "leaders" to start standing up to Shrub- they acted as the sacrificial lambs testing the waters in standing up to Shrub. Which is why one of them gets my vote in the primary, and no one else. Even if I have to write in someone's name in March. (and btw, one of Chris Dodd's criticisms of Dean LAST NIGHT was that he's too tough on poor King George :eyes: )

I'm still voting Dem this year. But things must change- or else we *will* begin to bleed voters to the Greens.