Does a more conservative stance on abortion simply alienate women,

[elperromagico]

one of our more loyal voting blocs?

I assume - wrong or right - that this talk about the Democratic Party taking a weaker stance on abortion is an attempt to court male voters, a group we typically lose.

But would we be cutting off our nose to spite our face? Would whatever we gained among male voters be lost among female voters, thereby leaving us right where we were before?

And how exactly do you soften the stance beyond the Clinton/Gore/Kerry "safe, legal, and rare" standard, without just coming out against a woman's right to choose?

Aside from the ideological pitfalls of such a stance - I myself am pro-choice, as is most of the country - how on earth does it work in our favor when it comes down to the numbers?

[portal]

1. Aren't college girls now more anti abortion than they use to be?

I thought I read this somewhere.

[Zhade]

6. Where, the Moonie Times?

NT!

[Mountainman]

11. Depends o whether they have an unwanted pregnancy or not

[ieoeja]

13. I was in college in the 80s.

I knew one gal who was staunchly anti-abortion. Then she found out she was pregnant and changed her mind. Then she found out she was wrong about being pregnant and changed her mind back.

I know as a Liberal I am supposed to admire one's willingness to change positions. But still I somehow found her lack of resolve disappointing.

[elperromagico]

18. People's positions always are more open to change

when they are directly affected by an issue.

It's selfishness, of course.

[leftynyc]

20. Feel free to provide a link (eom)

[sandnsea]

2. Reproductive responsibility

We can totally change the debate on abortion if we focus on the responsibility a woman has to make reproductive decisions, including health decisions. Reproductive responsibility includes everything from prevention to abortion to prenatal care to care for the child after it's born. We don't have to give up anything and can broaden the discussion dramatically, which we really need to do as a country anyway.

[elperromagico]

3. I think you may be right.

The "choice" argument doesn't seem to hold as much water as it used to.

[eShirl]

4. YES! (oops - meant as a reply to the original post)

It alienates THIS woman. I won't vote for any anti-choice candidate, I don't care what party's name they carry.

[sandnsea]

7. What's anti-choice?

In anything I said? YOU have the responsibility to make decisions about YOUR health. Nobody has a right to take that away. It's your reproductive organs, your responsibility.

[RafterMan]

5. Here's the CNN exit poll

              Bush             Kerry

Male (47%)	52% 		47%
Female (53%)	50% 		50%

Doesn't seem to hurt Bush.

But I still don't see a need for it.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/OH/P/00/epolls.0.html

[elperromagico]

8. I thought Kerry won women by three or four points.

Damn adjusted polls.

[murielm99]

9. Let's mess with your male rights for a change.

Let's see how would that affect the numbers.

"Safe, legal and rare" is the compromise. There can be no other.

[ieoeja]

14. "Safe, legal and rare" - sounds like my sex life. n/t

[elperromagico]

15. I agree.

I don't see how you can move beyond "safe, legal, and rare" without it becoming simply a matter of being anti-choice.

[noamnety]

10. I'll vote for anyone who takes away my rights

Heck, if they forbid me to divorce a man who abuses me, I'll even donate to them!

(is that how the DNC expects us to respond?)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. I'm a male and it alienates the hell out of me.

As does anything that reduces people to slavery.

[Greybnk48]

16. I have been a loyal Dem voter for 35 years.

I will leave this party in a heart-beat if they allow the R party to erode what we stand for. Human rights of all kinds including a woman's right to govern her own body. What's next, ban all birth control?

I will also leave if we do not stand up for the rights of gays--and I'm hetero womanwith three kids. But I, like most Americans have gay members of my family who I love and respect.

Abandoning the right to autonomous determination of one's life is a deal breaker for me--in all of it's forms.

[htuttle]

17. I doubt we'd get 10 votes from changing the position on abortion

And we'd lose a LOT more.

Right wingers who are pro-life think they are voting for Jesus 2.0 when they voted for Bush. Why would they vote for anyone else, whatever their positions?

We are FAR past the point of rational decision making by the electorate -- at least as concerns the segment that voted for Bush.

[Kber]

19. Gotta echo the pervailing sentiment here

Reproductive freedom is indictive of the party's attitude toward women in general and goes way beyond the issues specifically related to abortion.

Do or don't we trust women to make decisions about their families, futures, and health. Or do we feel that the state must intervene to help this segment of the population with the "right" choice.

I recently tested positive (falsely, thank God) for a fatal birth defect. It's not only irresponsible teens who are affected. I'm in my mid thirties, married and am pregnant on purpose after several years of trying. What my decision would have been in, frankly none of anyone elses business (except my husband's of course), but I can tell you this: We did not need Bush's, Falwell's, or Keyes' input in our decision.

[elperromagico]

22. And I agree with the prevailing sentiment.

The Democratic Party has long stood for women. The Republicans certainly haven't.

I realize it is not as simple as I make it sound, but I'd just like to hear the logic behind this idea that we need to move to the right on reproductive issues.

As far as I can tell, there isn't any logic behind it, aside from Kerry saying he met some voters in PA who wouldn't vote for him because of abortion.

Now, I know quite a few people who voted for Kerry because of his stance on a woman's right to choose.

I like Kerry - always have - but I can't grasp his logic here.

And he did win PA.

[lapislzi]

21. Rare WHY?

That's the kicker. Abortions should be rare not because of restrictive legislation but because of the myriad options (that should be) available to prevent and address pregnancy.

IF ample and comprehensive sex education were available
IF ample and comprehensive women's health care were available at low or no cost
IF contraception (all forms) were freely available at low or no cost, to anybody, anytime
IF adequate prenatal care were available at low or no cost
IF infant and child care were available at low or no cost
IF real effort was made to break the destructive cycle of poverty through education, training, affordable housing, etc.
IF people could earn a living wage

THEN you will see abortion becoming a rarity.

[elperromagico]

23. I agree. The abortion rate has gone up since Bush took office,

for many of the reasons you state.

Which is more immoral - an abortion, or encouraging ignorance when it comes to the alternatives?

The Republicans want this: Either you don't have sex, or you have the baby. Don't you dare have an abortion - life is precious. But if that child is born into poverty, it's just a worthless welfare baby being popped out annually by a welfare queen mother.

The extremes are truly chilling, aren't they?

[earthboundmisfit]

25. Misogynists' club

Seems like they're members of the "make the bitch pay" club, huh.

[sandnsea]

24. Reproductive responsibility

That's why we need to change the debate.

[ohkay]

26. How?

I would love to change the debate, but how? How do we get more
young women to be in a position so they don't HAVE to use
abortion as birth control?  

The sex ed in this country isn't working, and I don't see it
changing anytime soon.

[sandnsea]

27. See #2

For starters. Broad discussion is necessary. But on sex ed, yes it is working, or was. Did you know teen pregnancy was down to its lowest level since 1960, back in 1998 or so? Only difference is teens got married then and don't now.

I personally think the way we teach sex ed is part of the problem. We don't focus on the responsibilities of parenting enough. We have pictures of a teen mom being sacked with a child and a teen dad being sacked with a child support check. Not two people figuring out how to parent a child, real parenting. We don't teach kids that birth control fails and that they should always consider the possibiity of a baby when having sex. We could focus on real responsibility more, without going to strict abstinence, which has never worked. Before we do any of this, we have to open up the discussion. That's going to be the real trick.