What Democrats should do on Social Security

[DaveinMD]

To win on this issue, Dems should get rid of the ceiling. However, we should also cut the percent of taxation. This would be a tax cut on most workers. Cutting the rate and eliminating the ceiling could put the system on solid footing for a generation and help us take back the tax issue. We could also propose taxing stock dividents as part of the system. This is the kind of populism that can win.

[cthrumatrix]

1. why can't the Dems speak up? Are their coprorate owners keeping them quiet

The repugs are spouting lies all damn day and we have to rely on Paul Krugman or others to get the truth out.

The dem leaders should be EDUCATING people to the truth DAILY !!!

This is too important

[sandnsea]

6. They are

Why is it when Limbaugh spouts Republican TP's Democrats understand he's part of the RNC structure. But when Krugman does it, Democrats aren't getting their message out. :crazy:

Maybe Democrats need to visit their own party web site a little more often:

From DNC website < http://www.democrats.org/ >

Take Action: Stop Bush's Social Security Cuts

The George W. Bush plan to dismantle Social Security has begun.

The administration floated a proposal to cut benefits to future retirees by changing the way those benefits are calculated. And these cuts are guaranteed -- whether you opt in to the Bush plan or not.

Here's what the Bush plan will mean for your retirement:

„h If you retire in 2022, Bush will cut your benefits by almost 10 percent.
„h If you retire in 2042, Bush will cut your benefits by more than 25 percent.
„h In 2075, our children and grandchildren will face a staggering cut of 46 percent to their benefits.
And this is just the first step of the Republican Party's plan to dismantle the entire Social Security system that has kept generations of America's seniors out of poverty. Soon Bush will launch a $40 million TV ad blitz to convince Americans that our grandkids will be left out in the cold if Social Security is not privatized.

We will not stand by and allow that to happen.
Help us take our first step today by writing a letter to the editor of your local paper demanding that President Bush abandon his plan to cut benefits for tomorrow's retirees. Click the link below to write your letter today:

http://www.democrats.org/action/

[dolstein]

2. I'd rather raise the capital gains tax and the estate tax

NT

[DaveinMD]

4. why

we can put more money in the hands of people right now. It would save the system and put Democrats on record of cutting taxes for most people. Its a win-win.

[dolstein]

9. Because I pay a lot of payroll taxes and have no capital gains

I already pay nearly half my income in income and payroll taxes. What you are proposing would raise my tax burden even more. And there are people far richer than I am who pay a much smaller share of their income in taxes because capital gains (i.e., rich person income) are taxed at a much lower rather than ordinary income (i.e., what the rest of us get). I'm tired of subsidizing people like Bill Gates, Warren Buffent and Michael Bloomberg.

[DaveinMD]

11. that's the point

my proposal would tax those people at the same rate that you are taxed. Furthermore, it would cut the rate of taxation on payroll taxes.

[dolstein]

16. I'm pretty confident my taxes will go up under your plan

Only half of my income is currently subject to the social security tax. So unless you cut the tax in half, I'm worse off.

I'd rather ask millionaires and billionaires to pay the same tax rate on their income that I pay.

[DaveinMD]

21. I don't know your income

but my plan would subject all income to the fica tax. My plan would make millionaires and billionaires pay the same tax rate for fica. And my plan would be a tax cut for the vast majority of tax payers. Its a winning issue. Doing so would be a huge tax for most people. Remember, median income in this country is below 40,000.

[amazona]

14. capital gains/estate tax don't pay into Social Security

While I support both of these positions, please be aware that SOcial Security is only funded out of EARNED income.

Correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge, no tax from capital gains or estate has ever gone into Social Security in the first place. It is a worker's program. We put in while we're working, then take out when we're disabled or retired. It is not a welfare program that takes taxes from other unrelated areas.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[dolstein]

19. I don't like how Social Security is funded

I'm not a big fan of the payroll tax. I'd rather scrap the payroll tax entirely and simply raise income taxes, eliminate the capital gains differential and fund social security out of general revenues.

[JDPriestly]

30. Day trading is work.

Some people do it full time. Why not tax investment from the stock market that exceeds a certain amount per year as earned income?

[sandnsea]

3. Is there a crisis or not?

First we have to decide whether there's a crisis. Why do we need to fix something that we're currently saying isn't in crisis?

[DaveinMD]

5. there is no crisis

but this a perfect chance for Democrats to get back on the right side of the tax debate. We'd be cutting taxes for most people and they wouldn't have to wait for April to see it. They'd see it every paycheck. Its the perfect plan.

[sandnsea]

7. Get out of their arena

If they hadn't made this an issue, I might agree with you. But it seems to me that engaging in any debate at all on changes in SSI plays into their hands. It's fighting in their arena. To win, we want to pull them into our arena. Our arena is that they stole the FICA money with irresponsible tax cuts and we need to get back to fiscal responsibility. Get the money back from the people Bush gave it to. Our arena is social security is a safety net for the elderly, widows and children, and the disabled. It's a basic moral value. No negotiations. We start proposing changes, then we concede that there's a problem to fix and that will give them the edge. Seems to me.

[DaveinMD]

10. I've been advocating this for a while

so I don't view it this way. Cutting payroll taxes is a winning issue for us. And that's what we'd be doing.

[sandnsea]

13. Time and a place

This isn't it. Kerry proposed a FICA tax holiday a couple years ago. Where was everybody supporting him? It's psychological, if you give people even an inkling that SS is really in trouble, it'll snowball against us. I'm really convinced of that.

[DaveinMD]

15. that's not enough

This is how we get this issue back. The country trusts us more on this issue. We need to take advantage of it. But I do see your point.

[sandnsea]

20. Really?

Funny, I hear alot of young people who really like the idea of private retirement accounts. ALOT. I don't think we can be cocky and think we've got this one wrapped AT ALL. We have to go back to the drawing board and resell young people on what the program actually is and why they need it, as is. Until we do that, any changes in the way it's financed are going to fly right over their heads.

[DaveinMD]

23. giving them back money now

would put them on our side. And at the same time it would convince them that we are putting the system on sound footing. It already is, but they don't believe it. Young voters are the group that supported us in this election so they trust us more. We need to do something to continue to earn that trust.

[sandnsea]

24. 25 - 40?

No, they didn't support us. Very young people did, I should have clarified who I meant. I see your point. But it just seems that when we start down a path we always end up negotiating with disastrous results. And then get called spineless and lose even more. I'd rather rally behind the New Deal and Great Society; remind young(er) people how these programs really transformed America and what they'd be giving up if we start dismantling them. Just a difference of opinion I guess.

[JDPriestly]

31. Much of the tax relief would go to young

people just starting out. They tend to earn lower salaries than older people. This is a good idea.

[FrenchieCat]

34. As a tax accountant.....

I agree that, thus far, it's the best idea in keeping long term SS solvent without reducing benefits. Heck, medicare stopped having a limit a few years back.....and FICA should as well.

The self employed (sole proprietors) pay through their nose in FICA....they pay 15.3% to make up for the 1/2 that no employer pays. But again, that's still stops at the limit. But if the "small" businesses FICA was reduced, many would love it and would vote DEM! To have to pay more than $6,000 in FICA and MEDICARE if all you netted in a year was $40,000 (that $6,000 doesn't even include Federal or state taxes!).....that's why those self employed people are so mad and are voting Bush.

The reason that your idea is so good, is that this would help them too...as well as helping employers, if you are proposing reducing their percentage share as well....although they may not be as happy if the is no ceiling.

In the end, it could be a win-win proposal. The only people complaining would be the ones who would continue to be taxed, when currently they hit the ceiling at $87,900. However, if they understand that this would keep Social Security solvent, many would go for it.

[DaveinMD]

37. by cutting the percentage people pay

I think it could be a tax cut until 130,000 or of income. I also believe all income should be subject to this tax.

[Andromeda]

26. I see your point and agree

that cutting payroll taxes would be a good start. I don't think Social Security is broken, however, but I think the Dems need to convince people that Bushes plan would be disasterous.

We need to control the message.

Most older people understand that S.S. really isn't broken but the younger people really don't understand how damaging it would be if the privatization plan is implemented. They're only hearing that broken record Bush is playing.

[Leilani]

8. Dems need to have their own ideas to counter the other side

I get tired of them always being reactive rather than proactive.

[dolstein]

12. Agreed

As a progressive, I'm embarassed by the position of so many in my own party that none of the laws passed during the New Deal and the Great Society can be improved upon. That's not progressive, that's conservative.

It's beginning to look increasingly like the Democratic Party ran out of ideas during the Johnson Administration, and that we've spent the last forty years doing nothing more than defending our past accomplishments.

[sandnsea]

17. Everything doesn't need improving

Isn't it possible some things are actually working, just as they are? There's plenty of things we could propose new ideas for, the environment and energy particularly. Bush wants to dismantle social security and we shouldn't be suggesting ways to help him do that.

[dolstein]

27. Nothing's perfect

The Democrats used to be the reform party. Now they've become the status quo party.

Social Security is far from perfect. It has a long-term funding problem. Not an immediate crisis, but it's still a problem, and the longer we wait, the harder it will be to fix. It also has a short-term funding problem, in that the government keeps borrowing from the social security trust fund. If a private company tried to do that, people would be going to jail.

America also has a savings problem. We don't save enough, and that requires our government and our business to look overseas for capital.

If the Democrats are afraid to deal with these problems, they don't deserve to govern.

[sandnsea]

28. So Bush is right

Now go try and tell people that, but that the Democrats have the solution to the problem. And also, don't whine when Democrats have to compromise and the left spins that as yet another reason Democrats don't deserve to govern. And people wonder why we lose elections. :eyes:

[DaveinMD]

18. I've outlined how I'd improve it

There were some very good ideas during the Clinton years.

[kentuck]

22. If they only had the courage to propose it......

that's all that is needed. Offer an alternative.

[DieboldMustDie]

25. Eliminate, or at least raise, the cap and make the first $10,000 exempt.

This would represent a tax cut for everyone making less than $100,000 per year.

[DaveinMD]

29. I think my plan is simpler

and has the benefit of getting the money back to people sooner.

[flaminbats]

35. a real cap, limiting the burden on those Social Security should help..

eliminating the cap for high income earners would keep the program solvent, while reducing any negative impact future increases would have on our economy. Do the same with Medicare, then raise the rate so that everyone will be covered.

Will it happen..how many Democratic leaders have the courage to support such a plan?

[JDPriestly]

32. Off topic

It's a bit off topic, however, we need to point out that Bush's fears about Social Security reflect a deep pessimism about the economic future of our country. And why is he so pessimistic? Because he doesn't have a plan for prosperity. That's what we need to say right now.

[OneBlueSky]

33. Social Security is the Democrats' line in the sand . . .

if they fail to protect it -- aggressively and successfully -- they're roasted donkey meat. . . Social Security is the flagship of successful Democratic social programs . . . the most successful and cost effective in history, in fact . . . if BushCo gets their way, that's the end of the Democrats for the foreseeable future -- quite possibly forever . . .

[unibill13]

36. clear simple messages

dems need to harp on the prospect of losing benefits and keep to a simple message. If baby boomer Joe smoe worked hard all his life and payed his due taxes he will be very alarmed at the prospect that he could be losing his hard earned benefits when he retires a few years down the line, especially if he has done little to prepare for retirement otherwise.

In addition to this keep on bringing up Enron and get people to speak who lost their whole retirement plan due to it. Show corporate America can not be trusted with your retirement