Be honest: Did Howard Dean scare you with his speech last night?

[kentuck]

Did you want to grab the kids and run from the room, as Tucker Carlson says? Did a chill run up your back and did your hair stand up on the back of your neck? What type of fear did you experience?

Was anyone really frightened? Are these people wimpy little babies that shouldn't be involved in politics because they are so easily scared? Or are they lying thru their teeth? I tend to believe the latter. :)

[Joe the Revelator]

1. I don't think "fear" is the right word

i was disturbed

[kentuck]

6. That's progress!

At least we are admitting we weren't "afraid"... :)

[kerry-is-my-prez]

46. Just concerned. ....

n/t

[styersc]

64. He was out of control

Had he won in Iowa and gave such a rousing, uncontrolled scream fest, everyone would have been screaming along with him. It sort of reminded me of the final scene in the Eddie Murphy/Dan Akroyd movie "Trading Places" where the old man who had lost all of his money in the stock market is screaming at everyone after the closing bell to "come back- its not over- I built this exchange."

I was saddened more then frightened. I loved watching Dean take the GOP (and party conservatives) to task but now the speech is all that will mark him for this campaign cycle.

[WilliamPitt]

108. It was more like Matthew Harrison Brady in the witness chair

[Shanty Oilish]

141. Apt

"Genesis....Exodus...Leviticus...Numbers...Deuteronomy...Joshua...Judges...Ruth...First Samuel...North Carolina...Massachusetts..."

[DemLikr]

210. Will, is repeating the "Crazy Howard" meme one of the tactics in your

larger strategy for becoming an official "Washington Insider?"

I'm serious. Please reply.

[leftynyc]

212. One of my favorite movies of all time!!!

n/t

[lurk_no_more]

161. The smile scared the hell out of me

I invisioned him saying...."Heeeeeres Howard"


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[bearfartinthewoods]

51. i have been afraid for months everytime he speaks

in fear of what he would say or do next, so no change here.

[West Coast Democrat]

2. I just felt embarrassed for him

because he sounded so hoarse or something

[beaconess]

3. Actually, it shocked me and once the shock wore off

made me laugh really really hard.

Not the reaction he was going for, I suspect.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

36. Reminds me of scene from Tim Burton's "Ed Wood"

when they're screening the film and decide that it was actually a comedy (but it really wasn't) and bust out.

[Kool Kitty]

Of course not.

It was a good, passionate speech.

[Jack_Dawson]

4. Look, the man was drunk

and I would be too. I probably would've stayed in my hotel room though.

[youngred]

12. that was necessary

and helpful to an open and honest debate :eyes:

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

191. it's true though, I think he was drunk

or on pills, he was buzzing and you could tell it. It's not that big of a deal really, if I was under that kind of pressure I'd probably be raiding the mini-bar too. Still, maybe he should lay off the liquor before big speeches? Just a thought?

[wryter2000]

5. Haven't watched it yet

We did hear a clip of what was probably the worst. It sounded like he was really hoarse. Maybe someone should tell him not to yell when he's hoarse.

Randi Rhodes is making fun who were scared by it. She hasn't endorsed anyone and says good things about everyone but Lieberman.

[Kira]

7. I have to say

I thought it was great. I couldn't believe it when I saw all of these people saying he seemed crazy. I really thought he was just energizing all of the people there. It made me laugh and feel better about the night.
Oh, and I always run out of the room screaming and grab my kids when I hear Tucker talking!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

162. You should send him an e-mail telling him that....

They actually love putting that kind of thing on....

[jmaier]

8. Nope

I read it as a 'pep rally' sort of thing which seems to be pretty common in the Dean campaign although it's not my cup of tea. I think it was a bit insensitive to the fact that ALL the media were scrutinizing the post-caususes reactions and that this sort of event might not be too inspirational for a broader audience. But, it's no big deal, imo.

[youngred]

9. not frightened

but very off put.

My major problem with it was when he said he was going to win in all the states of his opponents and listed them as a group.

It was I thought, rather interesting, that much of this morning's buzz was not Dean lost big, Kerry won, Edwards did great...it was did you see Dean last night? he was crazy. He's taken away all the positive buzz from last night and granted its negative spin for him, but there is no such thing as bad publicity.

[DuctapeFatwa]

10. No. He was not driving a car that I was in, or on the road with

[bigwillq]

11. I thought the speech was great..

Yes, I thought it was a little over the top and more jublient than it should've been since as the initial front runner, he managed a disappointing third. As a Dean supporter however, it proved that Dean is one of the more passionate candidates and he believes, as I do, that the race is far from over.

[lastliberalintexas]

13. Absolutely, positively terrafied!!

You of course have to read that with my southern twang! ;-)


To be honest, as a Dean supporter, I thought the speech was ok- not great, but not as bad as the pundits and some here have said. I really think he sounded more hoarse than anything. And I think some people who have freaked out over the speech only saw the first part of Dean's speech- not Harkin immediatley before and not the remainder of Dean's speech. The second half was much better. :shrug:

[kentuck]

14. If it was really "scary"...

I think the Dean camp should save the tape and run it as a commercial against the Republicans. :)

[jpgray]

15. It was quite off-putting, but not that frightening (nt)

[PretzelWarrior]

16. not frightened about it...just kind of amused.

like a guy who is trying really hard to overcompensate for a crushing defeat. Like he wanted to be in denial and his frustration at losing came out as his shouting about the other states' primaries.

[MoonRiver]

17. Honestly, and I hope I don't get a warning cause you asked....

I felt like I was looking at a pit bull about to snap my jugular.
:scared:

[LoZoccolo]

68. A pit bull about to snap your jugular...

...that starts smiling and laughing?

Right.

[MoonRiver]

97. Well, I actually think he was just a little inebriated.

But he does have an aggressive demeanor which turns my Libra nature off.

[DemBones DemBones]

183. A person in a manic state can smile, laugh, and kill you.

That's what a maniac is -- a person in a manic state. I've seen it for real and that's how Dean looked. His eyes looked manic, he moved and talked too fast, everything he did was just typical of mania. Read up on mania if you don't believe me.

[One Taste]

18. Not literally scared, just thought it was REALLY weird

eom

[Bundbuster]

19. I found it disturbing

I don't see how that speech could possibly help him win over undecided voters, which I think at this point in the campaign are the most coveted prize.

[mike1963]

76. Ding, ding! You get the prize. Exactly right. His core supporters will

continue to be. Swing voters will think "oh-oh, this guy ain't very stable"

And whether that's a true evaluation or not does -not- matter. Most of the electorate that isn't locked into a candidate will remember his tirade long after they've considered or forgotten any of his positions or issues.

It sucks, yes, but it's a political axiom.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

131. Axciom? What?!!

ARE YOU A CLARK LOVER?!!

[lurk_no_more]

163. After hearing and viewing the speech,

then hearing the negative laughter and ridicule for what will be endless fodder, undecideds will be afraid to side with dean even if they were leaning that direction, the last thing you want to do is tell your friends and relatives you've decided to support what most folks perceive as loony toons.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[ShaneGR]

20. Fear, NO. Shock, YES.... and the Harkin thing!

I really was shocked by it. The part that totally threw me for a loop was when he whipped off his jacket and basically forced it into Harkin's hand like "Here, hold this jackass."

I'd be surprised if Joe Trippi slept last night.

[gulliver]

21. It was a bad imitation of a professional wrestler.

He was trying to fire up the crowd, but blew on past them. It wasn't even all that bad. He just hit the wrong note. He was trying to do what Harkin did just before him. Harkin hit a defiant, fighting note. Dean should have tried to go low key but let himself get carried away.

[WilliamPitt]

22. Scare me? No.

He is a national punchline today because of it, though. It wasn't scary. But it sure as shit wasn't smart.

[xultar]

23. No Way, I was a little shocked but he was having fun. I laughed

but when I stopped I started to think how his behavior translated. I don't think it wen't over well for those people who didn't know him. I also think that people are just now waking up and they don't know the real Howard Dean. It may have put off some new commers but it solidified his base. So, it's not all bad.

[waterman]

24. It will just be remembered as a bad moment for him

He started out ok, but just got too caught up at the end. It didn't seem like his sound system was that great either. It shouldn't overshadow the good he had done up to that point. He'll get past it and move ahead, just like any of us would try to do.

[lucidmadman]

25. At least he knows...

...the names of the states. Dubya probably doesn't.

[ACPS65]

26. Yes

.

[KittyWampus]

27. Stunned Is More Like It.

It was so beyond the pale of what the public would consider "Presidential".

And the expression on Dean's face was NOT just "Passion". He looked like he was overloaded.

[windansea]

28. actually at first it did

I was in another room and started hearing someone yelling...I thought..who changed the channel...then when he went :arrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" I actually ran to see WTF was happening...then I saw it was Dean

Then I wasn't scared...I felt sorry and embarrassed for him.

[cjbuchanan]

29. He did not scare me

However, I think that he was in a real bad situation. If he had gone out there and been calm, the media would be saying his campaign is depressed. Now I don't know if that is worse then the current charge of "crazy" but he was going to get hit no matter what. One thing, he was laughing and enjoying himself, so I think it was not that bad.

That said, I thought back to a media piece on McCain after winning NH. Before he gave his speech to national TV, he kept saying to himself, must be calm, this is the first time people are going to see of me, must be calm. Dean should have taken some of his advice.

Still, I don't think it's as big as a deal as many seem to be saying it is. He was fired up and that's okay.

I just have to say, I am looking forward to his speech (win or lose) next Tuesday night.

[DancingBear]

30. No - but I watched it like one would watch a train wreck

It was a back room speech to the faithful broadcast live to mainstream America. Someone earlier made a very astute comment - imagine if your mother or grandmother watched that speech.

That is the scary component - as in "too scary to be President."

The cons far outweighed the pros, for he will lose the fence sitters and undecideds, and perhaps already has. Comparing the speeches of Kerry and Edwards with that is enough to "scare" them into those camps.

[seventhson]

31. I LOVED it. I thought it was funny.

It feels good to make that sound. It DID look like he mighta been drinking -- but I tend to think he was deleriously exhausted from campaigning and was just experiencing MONSTER JOY that:

1. The damn Iowa Caucus was FINALLY over and he had PLACED in the top three (his goal) and

2. He had after all not done badly at all considering his almost unknown status just a year ago. This was actually a BIG victory for him; and

3. He was celbrating his FIRST real victory like the preppy ivy leaguer that he is (just like Bush the cheerleader, Kerry, Lieberman, Clinton, and probably even Clark would)


MONSTER JOY.

I don't blame him really.

[jsw_81]

53. Joy? I don't think so

Dean got trounced. He had been campaigning in Iowa for nearly two years and ended up a distant third when the votes were counted. Believe me, there was no joy in the Dean campaign last night. Unless he wins New Hampshire by a convincing margin, Dean is finished as a presidential candidate.

[Old and In the Way]

92. "He was celbrating his FIRST real victory"

Are we talking about the same guy here? If you considered this a Dean win, I'm curious what your definition of a real loss is.

[beaconess]

119. This was a VICTORY? Nice spin but I don't even think Dean believes that

n/t

[overground1]

211. top 3 in Iowa are contenders

it was a victory, and he was having a bit of fun. No harm done.

[kentuck]

32. I think Dean should consider running part of it as a campaign ad....

A voice over: "They say that Howard Dean scares them...Well good! If he can scare some of the politicians in Washington and the Republicans that send our troops to war without a good cause, then he has done a good deed for America."

(show a clip of the speech)

A voice over: "Howard Dean is passionate about America. He is ready to fight for America. He is ready to wake up the voters and take back our country. If you agree with him, join the campaign against those "scaredy cats" in Washington..." (then show a black cat running across a darkened room)
=============================
:) just an idea...

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

67. Exactly, I love it!

People have their priorites backwards, I think. What's scary is Bush and his handlers. THEY are the dangerous psychos. If a guy gets a little red in the face and jokes around and yells and people think that's weird and unpresidential, then why don't they talk about all the bizarro, radical things that Bush does -- things that have bad effects on people and on policy.

[Melodybe]

33. I think that the person that let the TV cameras into that room should be

fired this instant. I have spent my own time and money working my ass off for Dean here in MS. We had a table at the LSU/UM game for pete's sake, we got there at 4 am to set up. That is the lions den and to see the high ups fuck up this baddly makes me want to cry.

[beaconess]

40. The problem was not the cameras - which are standard procedure

for events like this, but that Dean didn't seem to know how to behave in front of them.

[jsw_81]

55. So you want a candidate who acts like a nutcase behind closed doors?

[West Coast Democrat]

34. I Laughed when Dean mentioned the Oregon Primary

as one of the states he'll win. Our primary is May 18!!! Really, he's stretching there!

[rumguy]

35. What "scares" me is his bad judgment

I'm thinking more and more that Dean has a tin ear...

[LoZoccolo]

37. Not a bit.

I don't see how they expect me to be convinced of something I really doubt they believe themselves. I think the idea is to get each and every person to think everyone else thinks that Dean's crazy, and fall in line with conformity. This thing is spreading more because a big number of the people who know it's no big deal aren't calling anyone else on it being no big deal. Some people are all worried about Rove using it against us, so they're applying the same spin the Republicans would put on it, thus adding a false sense of legitimacy to what they're afraid of. Thanks a lot.

If these 46% of people that supported Dean that were polled a couple weeks ago would just stand up and call it like they see it, we could embarass a lot of Republicans that are making it a point of hookum-spookum. But everyone else is afraid of everyone else or whatever.

"That keeps the chain of mediocrity going, and that's evil." - Jeanine Garafolo

[LoZoccolo]

43. I guess a simple thing to say about this is...

...if some of us want to perpetuate a political climate where this is a big deal, we'll have to campaign in that same climate in November. Do you really want that?

[bearfartinthewoods]

71. some of us realize change isn't going to happen and that we need

to compete in the existing reality

[LoZoccolo]

74. Yes...46% of us need to adjust to the reality that...

...the other 54% live in. No ground can be gained.

:eyes:

[LoZoccolo]

83. And that's only half the point.

When something like this comes up, you have a choice. You can reinforce the climate and serve to make it a little more dumbfuckity, or you can fight it and try to make it a little less so. Now, if during the general election some stupid little thing like this gets taken and run away with by the Republicans about whoever finally does get nominated, don't come back here crying because you didn't do your work back in January to fix the climate.

[fob]

38. No. And I honestly don't get what the hubub is about.

I watched it and there was NOTHING remarkable about it(as in the reaction here kind of remarkable). Seemed like a run-of-the-mill stump speech.

What gives? I've read posts here where people were aghast that he repeated "Si, se puede" enough to lose their support for him. WTF is that?


fob (PV = Sharpton)

[sandnsea]

39. For the second time

The first was the J&J Dinner and everybody thought we were just being mean then too. :shrug:

[OKNancy]

41. The word "scare" and "fear" is way overused on DU

I always chuckle when someone writes: Clark scares me, Kerry makes me afraid, and now this. It wasn't scary, it was just intemperate and it looked bad. It didn't scare anyone.

[Melodybe]

50. It was fine for Dean supporters but really bad for nation wide

If it wan't the cameras someone should have given Dean a chill pill before he stepped on stage. Dean people wake up we have work to do and it started last night.

Time fore a little reflection here, things are not working!!! We have to figure out how to fix them.

[Kbick]

42. No, It was a good blistering Dean speech…

This is the image people have of Dean already.
It is not going to hurt him one bit.
This is the kind of energy we will need to win in November.

If Dean were more of a lefty like Clark, I would support him.

[displacedtexan]

44. It was embarrassing.

We need a statesman.

[jsw_81]

45. It was very disturbing

And not at all what I'd expect from a serious presidential candidate. Note that I no longer have a large "Dean for America" sign on my posts. It's not that I'm abandoning my candidate because he got trounced (and yes, he definitely got trounced in Iowa), I just don't think that he's ready for prime time. His "speech" was Karl Rove's dream come true.

[kentuck]

47. I would say that was the type of speech that would go over well ..

..in the South. If they keep showing it, I would not be surprised to see Dean gain strength in the South. I hope they keep showing it...I think it may backfire on them. :)

[beaconess]

123. Why do you think that Southerners are more likely to warm to

an out-of-control performance than the rest of the country?

[kentuck]

134. They're more likely to see it as passion than an 'out-of-control"...

performance, as you say.

[Fleshdancer]

48. Bush leads us into a war based on lies and Dean is the one who scares you?

Ridiculous thread....the 168th ridiculous thread on the same ridiculous topic.

[Ramsey]

49. Oh please!!

No, of course not. What a bunch of stupid hyperbole.

[deminflorida]

61. Deleted..by user..

n/t

[Riptide]

52. I was cringing as I watched it..

It didn't really bother me personally. But, I knew it was not going to play well with the average Joe. I think it would have been a fine speech for just his supporters (no cameras).

My husband is not interested in politics like I am. He watched Dean's speech, and then turned to me and said, "What the hell was that?"

I admire his passion, but I just don't think it came across as passion, it was more like an outburst.

Dean is not my first choice, but I would absolutely support him 110% if he wins the nomination.

[mrdmk]

54. Dean was losing his voice (horsed)

Dean’s campaign is built on the premise of getting the younger vote. He was probably over compensating to his younger crowd. His speech was improvised as everyone else and truthfully none of them was that good.

As for the media, Bush and Schwarzenegger are better public speakers when their backs are up against the wall, aren’t they boys. Better sharpen them pencils.

One more thing about the media, I rather hear more from the candidates than the commentators. C-Span was using a local TV station for their broadcast but still the candidates were not finished speaking when they were cut off, except for Dean.

Was that scary, :hurts:

[Dookus]

56. Not scared...

but shocking. I watched it with my jaw on the floor, then when he let go with the "yeeeargh" I just broke out laughing.

It seems that what was shocking to so many is exactly what makes a lot of Dean supporters like him. I guess it's just a fundamental difference in taste.

I thought he appeared unhinged, and I knew immediately that we'd be seeing a lot of this performance.

[paulk]

57. in the context of having just lost badly

it seemed very strange. It seemed like a celebration. It was the wrong speech at the wrong time and it will probably end up hurting his campaign.

[RUexperienced]

58. If you didn't DU last night, here are the comments...

Here are some deomcratic comments from last night.

I am beside myself right now.
Thats putting it mildly.
LOL... Dookus
he was shrieking the names of a bunch of states
Picture a psychotic truck driver headed full steam for a bridge abuttment
Very unattractive and manic display.
More like a man on the edge
Oh my God, he said Yeeha
That was strange. YeeeeHa?
The Yeeha seemed forced to me..
Maybe he will get the southern white male vote after all ;-)
Hey look, he can name all 50 states
I wonder if someone spiked his coke with crystal meth soleft
Does his wife double as a phychologist? The guy needs a tranquilizer.
Who's that scarey man on TV mommy?
Good god, he's like a drunk whirling dervish... Holy cow. Is this what Dean is really like?
sure am glad I'm not the only one who thinks he's acting looney...
I think his card table is folding fast
I'm a Dean Support too and I'm stunned
he's speaking in tounges!
He was acting really scary!
He was yelling all the states in this angry hoarse voice then yeeehaawed
And growling like a mad dog.. Man I hope they show that again...
Look, I love Dean's passion, but that was scary.
It was one of the most shocking things I've seen in a long time
MSNBC: Would you want a doctor like THIS in the ER?
Yep. Imagine you're an NH voter watching this display...
Several months ago, I predicted Dean would implode, he just did
He looked like Jimmy Swaggart.

[LoZoccolo]

65. I think the question is addressed to you, sir.

My point exactly about "everyone's worried about what everyone else thinks."

[Ramsey]

72. Once again, unattributed quotes

The vast majority of these comments were made by Clark supporters, so pardon me if I find their motives for making them highly suspect.

[The River]

59. What Scares Me

is the thought of seeing that video clip
as part of a GOP sponsored ad being played
100 times a day. They will spin
his passion & anger into something
quite scary.
I've been to my last Dean Meetup

[Feanorcurufinwe]

60. It sounds worse without the video than audio only.

And the text version actually reads like a normal speech.

It was just Dean being Dean. Unfortunately for his campaign, that turns a lot of people off.

[Fleshdancer]

62. does your own shadow scare you too??

How about the dark, is that scary? It was a pep rally for the supporters. Get over it. If it scares you too much, turn off the tv and call your mommy.

[carpetbagger]

63. It did until I saw it on TV.

I was driving across the Texas plains when the results came in, so all I got was the short audio clip at the same time I heard how poorly he had done. It sounded like something from one of those Iron John retreats, like Dean was going to start banging on a drum, like he wasn't wearing any clothes except for body paint, and maybe some poison ivy.

After I saw the clip, it made sense.

[el_gato]

66. what scares me is how easily people are manipulated by the media

[youngred]

69. some us thought that while watching it live

without the media's help, thanks

[beaconess]

126. Everyone who doesn't think that Dean is the end-all-and-be-all

is either stupid or manipulated, don't you know?

Just like the 82% of Iowa voters who voted against him were all tricked by the media.

[Fleshdancer]

73. exactly. The talking heads said it was scary, so they must be right

Drudge said it too, he must be right. :eyes:

It was a pep rally for supporters. He wasn't biting the heads off puppies for cryin' out loud.

Like I said before...Bush led us to WAR based on a lie and Dean is the one who is scary??? Please.

[Uzybone]

81. Yep its the medias fault

those who watched it live and felt Dean was embarrassing were somehow pre-manipulated by the media.

[kentuck]

88. "embarrassed' is not the same as "afraid"...

More people could agree with your comment about embarrassment, I would guess? :)

[ArtieBoy]

90. Love it.

I thought it was a beautiful moment. He was showing that you can't snuff out his fire, even if he comes in third. Imagine that passion focused at Bush and Rove! They SHOULD be scared!

I'm all for a Dean/Edwards, Edwards/Dean ticket. But then, I'm a white male from the South. Is that so wrong?

[dawn]

153. Me too!

It is damn scary how manipulated people are by the media. Just wait until tonight, after Bush's SOTU speech. The media will be having multiple orgasms.

[tridim]

70. Here's the deal

A. Dean was shouting because the crowd was very loud at the moment.

B. Dean's voice was mic'ed and amplified, the crowd wasn't (watch the video, you can see the crowd going nuts). I used to run sound for live shows, when you monitor audio from a single vocal channel on a mixing board the results are exactly like the audio of Dean last night.

C. Dean was smiling the entire time.

D. Everyone is free to interpret the speech however they want.

I thought it was a great speech and no Freeper, media whore or anti-Dean person is going to change my mind. Perception is personal.

[Fleshdancer]

75. You're not jumping on the "Dean is a lunatic" badwagon???

You mean a pep rally to supporters doesn't make you wet your bed either???

It's getting very childish in here. Bush led us to a war based on lies and they're scared of Dean. Great priorities people. Wonderful. Very progressive.

[WilliamPitt]

80. Come on, now

The speech was a matter of perspective. For a lot of people, it was over the top. Your response - to question people's progressive ethics - isn't very nice, nor does it reflect well upon your own progressive ethics. Just my humble o.

[Fleshdancer]

85. Once again, we have a neocon president who led us into war....

...based on a LIE and we spend 20+ threads on how Dean is scary. I don't think we are progressing at all. It's an honest opinion.

[WilliamPitt]

87. So you are connecting the happenings in a DU forum to the real world

There's your mistake.

[shance]

174. Where in the world did you come up with that comparison?

Her point is how the media treats a passionate speech by a Democratic front, runner versus a war killing thousands led by a Republican.

One man is pilliored for a speech the other is praised for murder.

Can you see the double standard going on here?

See if you can figure out which one is which.

[tridim]

86. Of course not..

People have been telling me Dean is a nut for at least a year. My Republican parents, the entire media, freepers, even an unnamed group on DU (you probably know who I'm talking about), they have all said over and over and over again that Dean is a wack job. Funny thing is, they've never met the guy, I have. If I wanted people to tell me what to think, I'd be a Republican.

[arewethereyet]

160. I've thought he was a lunatic for months and months

that was just what has been marginally under the surface all along.

I'll tell you who was scared, Harkin saw what credibility he had go down the toilet and was ACTUALLY worried. Look at his face. And he's a polititian skilled at managing his outward appearance.

[molly]

95. I cannot even imagine ANY of the other candidates

going into such an "in-your-face" rage. He looked like the incredible hulk on steroids. If you disagree - visulaize Edwards, Kucinich, or even Kerry in that scenario.

This is what Mr and Mrs America visualizes with his finger on the BIG button.

:shrug:

[RetroLounge]

105. He was smiling and laughing...

Where do you get rage from?

[LoZoccolo]

111. Let's get footage of Kerry cheering vigorously at a basketball game.

"Oh no! He's a lunatic! He's the guy who's gonna have his finger on the button!"

:eyes:

[beaconess]

135. But this wasn't a football game . . .

[LoZoccolo]

149. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

He got excited about a contest. Whooptee-do.

[beaconess]

132. If you ran sound, you certainly know all about direct feeds and multboxes

and know that if Dean's voice was mic'ed and amplified, there was no need to yell. Dean's voice was carried by direct feed to the press riser. He was screaming for no reason. (Notice how none of the other candidates found the need to scream like banshees, even though their audiences were just as boistrous as Dean's).

And yes, he was smiling, and that smile is one of the things that scared the bejeezus out of people.

[tridim]

144. Was his monitor functioning? Did he even have a monitor?

Was the house PA turned up loud enough to counter the crowd noise? If you can prove that the answer to these questions is yes then I'll grant you that he didn't need to yell. Problem is, neither of us can answer these questions because we weren't there. There are too many unknown variables to make a judgment. I've seen him do the "states we're going to win" routine a few times, and he always gets fired up when he does it. It's not new, and nobody freaked out about it before last night.

My point is that there is no way to judge the overall sound of the rally when all we heard was the direct feed from his mic. For all we know the crowd might have been so loud that Dean felt it was necessary to yell so he'd be heard.

[fishnfla]

77. it was like that scene in blazing saddles

Where the sherriff is holding himself at gunpoint
"Nobody move or the * gets it"

and then the guy goes

"Oh Lawdy Lawd, do what he say! Do what he say!"

[2cents]

78. What I saw ...

...was a fighting spirit that was loud, proud and genuine.

Hope to see more of it.

[jsw_81]

96. If we see more of that...

Dean won't even be allowed into the convention hall in Boston. He really ought to apologize before it's too late. Unfortunately, I think it's probably too late for Dean to recover.

[Fleshdancer]

79. Maybe this is why Republicans think Democrats are so weak

if a pep rally scares you, then I hope we never have a draft in this country again.

Bush leads us to a war based on lies and you're scared of a pep rally for supporters? Scared???

[MarkTwain]

82. Not only fear...

... but disgust that this was the performance of the one time presumed nominee of our party.

A total embarrassment for our party and our country.

[Jerseycoa]

84. Okay, honest

I had my back to the TV which is across the hall from my study but not far away. I heard what I heard without knowing who it was. I would never say here whose image came to mind with the sound I heard, but it was a rush of fear I felt initially. I got up and looked and saw it was Dean. Naturally, I didn't continue to feel fear once I knew who it was. What I felt was a mixture of disgust, pity, and horror. What on earth could that campaign have been thinking? Clearly the candidate was not thinking at all. Today, having considered a close friend of mine whose behavior in extreme situations has brought out similar displays, I wonder if Dean has bipolar disorder. This brought with it another level of fear, and with it the sayings "going nuclear" or "going postal" and all they imply for a president. But that fear dissipated soon enough. Even as I didn't want Dean to win the nom, and I have made no bones about it, I always figured he might. I don't see any way in hell anymore.

[Neecy]

89. no, not scary

Dean has never been my second, or even third choice. Still, I understand his base of support and if those folks get dispirited by an 18% outcome his campaign is over. He had to come out and fire them back up, unseemly as it seems to the rest of us. Those are his field workers and financial backers.

Not to say that the swing voters who watched that understood what he was doing. It wasn't a good move if you have an eye toward the general election.

I'm don't support Howard Dean for the nomination, but I'm the first one to thank him for demanding more of our party and of our elected officials. We've all, at some point, been infuriated at the Democratic butt-kissing of little boy blue over the last three years and Dean speaks to that frustration and anger. He makes me feel good again about being a Democrat. I just don't think he can win, which is why he's never been my choice, but I won't attack him for last night or, for that matter, for anything. We have CNN for that.

[quaker bill]

91. No.

In fact, I liked the speech. Of course, I saw the whole thing, not just the 30 second loop on Fox/MSGOP/CNN. You can see it all on CSPAN.com

[bhunt70]

93. no, not scared but it reminded me of the movie "Falling Down"

[cmf]

94. Repuglicans are the only ones who fear Dean.

My husband and I found it funny. First we burst out in laughter, then we mourned about the fodder just handed to the Repuglicans.

[Baclava]

98. I must change my stand...

Last night I thought it was simply a "rah-rah" a bit overdone...
However, this a.m. I decided try a different approach...

I played all the exit speeches back to back with Dean's last...the cat and dog were the captive audience...positioned approx. 6ft from the TV.

Everything was non-reactive until Dean...the cat got up and walked to the screen and pawed it...the dog rolled his eyes back, looked at me (like I was yelling at him?) and slunk off under the kitchen table...

(the plants were the control group and remain still living)

What does this all mean?

[Clark Can WIN]

99. For a Chris Farley skit it wasn't bad................

But for a presidential hopeful, it was a disaster.

[boxster]

100. "wimpy little babies"?

Hmm, that's interesting. I find it quite interesting that a Dean supporter would use a statement like, "Are these people wimpy little babies that shouldn't be involved in politics because they are so easily scared?"

That question might more accurately describe Dean supporters of late. They claim that many, many other Dean supporters have left DU because of "attacks" and "nastiness" of other members. They call for everyone to lay off of Howard Dean for the good of the party and call every negative statement ever made about Dean an attack. They constantly criticize other candidates for "bashing" Dean while he does the exact same thing to the others. They act like Dean is the only person ever criticized on DU.

That being said, you bet we're scared.

We're afraid that even after this ludicrous tirade, Dean is still going to win the nomination, and we realize that this kind of tirade is not going to play well in the South, Midwest, or with Independents and swing voters.

We're afraid that he's going to win the nomination and get soundly trounced by Bush in November.

We're afraid that he can't beat Bush.

We're afraid that he has enough money to buy his way back into the race and beat candidates that stand a much better chance of beating Bush in November.

You're damn right we're afraid.

[kentuck]

107. Just for clarification....

I am not a "Dean supporter"....I simply want to see people treated fairly. I think the reaction to Dean's speech was exaggerated, mostly by those that would prefer to see Dr Dean defeated.

I am on record as a Kerry supporter, with Clark as possible second choice.

[boxster]

112. Did you actually see it?

What shocks me is that ANYONE could not see it as negative. You can choose to believe it or deny it, but Dean had a meltdown, pure and simple. He overreacted to a very difficult and unexpected loss.

At the very, very least, he looked extraordinarily un-presidential. I live in the Midwest, and I guarantee that this type of behavior is NOT going to play well out here.

I don't even blame Dean. I blame his campaign staff for putting an overworked, stressed out human being who just got unexpectedly pounded by his competition in the beginning stages of one of the most important experiences of his life OUT ON THAT STAGE.

That was inexcusable.

[kentuck]

115. Yes, I saw it. It was not "scary"...

It may have been embarrassing, over the top, un-presidential, et al...but I don't think it was "scary". I felt sympathy for him when I saw it but it did not 'scare' me as many Repubs and some DU'ers were saying...Just trying to keep it in perspective.

[boxster]

121. Your definition of "scary" is too narrow.

I'm sure hardly anyone was "scared" in that definition. What scared many people, however, was the fact that he lost it before our very eyes.

I cannot see how he can possibly beat George Bush if this is indicative of his behavior. Many Dean supporters tell me that it is similar to his stump speeches.

That is what is "scary" in nearly every form of the word, except the definition equating it with "terrified" (which is, of course, the form you're using in this post.)

Was I terrified? Of course not. Did his behavior "scare" me? You bet it did - in that I'm afraid that it's going to cost him dearly, and we can't afford that if he wins the nomination

Look, I'm a Clark supporter, but had Clark not entered the race, Dean was my guy and was still my #2 until recently.

Not anymore. Kerry, Clark, and Edwards are all better choices at this point. We cannot afford for Dean to win the nomination if this is a preview of what's in store.

[beaconess]

137. Maybe the staff inadvertently did him a favor . . .

since if Howard Dean loses all control this way when he's overworked, overstressed and unexpectedly pounded, he should be looking for another line of work. The presidency would kill him.

[Clark Can WIN]

170. I saw it live in it's appalling entirety.

No force on the face of this earth could have orchestrated a better Anti-Dean appearance than Dean did that night.

[Julien Sorel]

184. What do you think being president is abolut?

I don't even blame Dean. I blame his campaign staff for putting an overworked, stressed out human being who just got unexpectedly pounded by his competition in the beginning stages of one of the most important experiences of his life OUT ON THAT STAGE.

Presidents, real presidents, not the permanent vacation fuckup who currently sits in office, are overworked, stressed out human beings who are on stage practically every minute, like it or not. Ever see the before and after pictures of presidents, the ones where they show them before they were in office, and when they leave? It's shocking -- they look like they age 20 years in 4 or 8. If Dean melts down from the stress of this campaign, there is simply no way he could hack four years in the most demanding, stressful job in the world.

[boxster]

186. Excellent point.

You're right - if this is his reaction to losing 1 state in a 50-state race, it raises questions regarding his ability to handle the job that he is seeking.

Yes, I'm always amazed at the before/after presidential pictures. Even Bush in his limited role as figurehead for the Cheney machine is looking a decade older than he did three years ago.

[LoZoccolo]

109. Fear of this "tirade". Is that the same kind of fear...

...that led Democrats to:

- Concede the 2000 election?
- Sign the Patriot Act?
- Sign the Iraq War Resolution?

We're sick of this kind of fear. Read my posts above about how we can use this to change the climate or keep it going (and ultimately, have to try to campaign within it) if you haven't already.

We can gain ground.
Or we can lose ground.

[boxster]

114. Screaming at the top of your lungs accomplishes nothing.

This isn't about the Patriot Act or the IWR. This is about the fact that the Democratic front-runner had a fricking meltdown on national TV and looked like the world's sorest loser. He overreacted to a huge, stunning loss as a human being would.

The problem is: the public doesn't want a human being in the White House. They want a President with a capital P. Presidential candidates are rarely allowed to be human beings, and Dean's tirade (which is exactly what it was) is NOT a positive thing.

He most certainly did not appear presidential, especially in the context of the speeches given by the others: Kerry, Edwards, and Gephardt. They looked presidential.

Anger is one thing. A delusional screaming fit is quite another.

If he's losing ground because of this, he has no one to blame but himself. This was a poor decision and if anyone is to blame, it is Dean and his staff for putting him in this position.

[LoZoccolo]

120. A sore loser that...

...starts smiling and laughing right after his "delusional screaming fit" and "tirade".

:eyes:

Well, now we have Democrats to thank for keeping soundbite politics alive and healthy. Like I said, hope they like when it comes back to them in November.

[boxster]

130. That wasn't smiling.

Even if it was, do you think delusional people are incapable of smiling? Do you think insane people frown all the time? Dean is neither delusional nor insane, but he looked like a psychotic, smiling or not. This whole "oh, but he was smiling" claim that Dean supporters are using is ludicrous. So what if he was smiling? Does that mean he can't smile and rant at the same time? I think not.

And, believe what you want, but he was NOT having fun. I think it's more likely that he was extremely disappointed and overreacted to the accumulated stress and strain.

Blame his staff for putting him in that position in the first place. They're obviously in denial about it today, as well.

Frankly, I don't blame his staff and his supporters for being in denial about this, because it was so over-the-top that it was almost impossible to believe it was actually happening.

[LoZoccolo]

154. If you can't see that or won't admit it, this is futile.

It's really obvious. A little pep assembly after an unexpected defeat.

:boring:

[Clark Can WIN]

185. People have differing opinions

You might think he looked passionate. I might think he looked like a freakin lunatic who's wheels had fallen straight off the bus.

In the end it is the votes who decide, and I will not insult them.

[boxster]

187. You better watch it again, because if you think Dean was smiling and

having a good time, you don't know your candidate very well. A snarl and a smile are two different things.

[LoZoccolo]

188. Better yet, let's have everyone watch it.

And then they can decide whether or not you're lying:

http://news.yahoo.com//p/v?u=/ap_av/20040120/av_ap_us/982bb15da7dc05ae66e52a52e10e8eda&cid=448&f=53746353

Right there. I'm not posting this for you; I don't think you're going to "change your mind". I'm posting this so that people can see what kind of credibility people have when they make this argument.

[LoZoccolo]

189. In case you can't find it.

Said smile begins at :55.

[boxster]

194. Oh, boy. Look...Dr. Dean is smiling.

That must mean he's happy and having a good time.

Yes, a smile always means that you're having a good time. Even if it's a grimace. Even if you're smiling only to keep from crying.

If that's what you really believe, more power to you.

[LoZoccolo]

197. So you concede it was a smile.

So it's not a snarl. OK. Go on to my other reply.

[boxster]

201. If you didn't see him snarling, you didn't see the speech.

Watch it again. He snarled a hell of a lot more than he smiled.

And, again, your point that he smiled is meaningless. What's your point - that a raving lunatic should be ignored because he smiled at the end? Yeah, right. Have a nice time vacationing in the state of denial. All roads lead to a happy place.

If your goal for the day was to call other people liars and to make some pointless rant about Dean smiling, congratulations. You have succeeded.

[LoZoccolo]

202. My point is that he wasn't out of control.

Theatrical, yes. The whole point is that if you look at it in context, with him coming in smiling and being happy with the crowd, and him smiling and laughing at the crowd's response, that this thing is not some sort of lunatic fit. It's a bit of theatrics that's put on for a few seconds, and you can see that it's sandwiched in between a whole lot of mirth. If he was out of control, if it wasn't just show, he wouldn't have snapped into and out of it like that.

And you know what? Everyone else knows that too. That's why I wasn't afraid to let everyone see it.

[boxster]

203. Call it what you want.

The bottom line is that you can call it whatever you want. The reality of the issue is that his rant is going to do nothing positive for him.

You can't see that however, because you'd rather call me a liar and play semantics games. Oh, but he was smiling and that makes it all better. Yes, denial and personal attacks will certainly help your candidate.

Whether it was an act or not, he's been a national punch line for the past two days and it WILL negatively effect him. The length of that negative impact has yet to be seen, but he's already dropping in the polls in NH and will very likely be behind Kerry in most NH polls by Friday. If he loses NH to Kerry, his candidacy is in real trouble.

[LoZoccolo]

204. On "calling you a liar".

I'm sorry.

But I'm still holding you accountable for perpetuating the spin, and perpetuating the climate that allows this to be a big deal. Every single person here has a choice - they can call it like they see it, or go along with the meme, possibly for a temporary political advantage. Look at some of my other posts - part of my point is that when you keep this kind of a climate going, where someone can put spin on something that's so obviously not what they're claiming it is, then whatever candidate happens to win will have to campaign in that climate. And Republicans tend to do better at the blowing-something-out-of-proportion game, especially when they have such a huge echo chamber of pundits such that you can hear the same meme several different places and it looks like it's well-established fact to certain people. This isn't good for any of our candidates.

I've said before, that about a week and a half ago, 46% of people polled said they'd elect Dean. Now if these 46% of people would stand up and call this meme on the falsity that it is, it would just go away and the other 54% or less would lose some credibility in the process. But it looks like we're returning to our pusillanimous ways as a party.

[boxster]

205. I'm not perpetuating anything. I have just as much right to my opinion

as you do to yours.

My opinion is that he looked like a raving lunatic, and I watched the speech live, unencumbered by 2 days worth of spin and denial.

My opinion is that this is going to hurt him. Again, this opinion was formed as my mouth hung open watching him rant live on national TV.

My opinion was formed after living my entire life in the Midwest, where to many voters, the only thing on the planet worse than an obviously-pandering politician is a politician who acts completely over-the-top and demonstrative. Dean fit that description to a T, no matter what you believe. My opinion is that this is not going to go over well with independents and moderates.

My opinion is that Howard Dean is more responsible for any drop he has in the polls than ANYONE criticizing him for his behavior. If this hurts him, he has no one else but himself to blame. It was stupid, and it was reckless. It is remarkably sad that this one stupid action may doom his campaign.

Blaming the effects of his behavior on me, the media, and everyone who saw it differently than you did is misguided, at best. Especially when it seems pretty obvious that you're in the vast minority, at least where DU is concerned.

There is no doubt in my mind that I will vote for Dean in November, should he win the nomination, regardless of this screwup. The people you should be worried about are the voters who do not share your happy view of Dean's tirade. Those are the voters that are going to be turned off by Dean.

Not because of the media. Not because of me. Not because of other people on DU and elsewhere. Because of Howard Dean.

[boxster]

193. Oh, please. If you can't see the obvious frustration and disappointment

on your candidate's face, you're not paying attention.

That is NOT a happy man. That is incredibly obvious to anyone who bothers to look.

If you're insistent on putting a happy face on this, feel free, but I'm confident that the vast, vast majority of people would disagree with you.

Even many of Dean's own supporters: http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=express&s=crowley012004

"it's clear that a great many Deaniacs, people who once spoke almost no ill of "Howard," are now angry, disillusioned, and losing hope. It's what you might call the Deaniacs' first brush with the cold reality of politics--and reality seems to be winning."

Besides, this is a ridiculous argument. If you can't understand that a smile does not always mean that someone is happy and having a good time, there's no point in trying to convince you otherwise.

[LoZoccolo]

198. Ah good...so you move out of the "psychotic" column...

...into the "frustrated and disappointed" column.

Yeah, I'd believe he was frustrated and disappointed. I'll grant that. But he looked ready to take it on too.

This thread is about him looking crazy and scary anyways, so I trust this conversation is over.

[Castilleja]

214. OK, I finally saw the video,

(Thanks LoZoccolo!) And I don't know what some of y'all are smoking, but there was nothing scary or wrong about that speech at all. Alot of what I have been reading in here sounds like sheer joy and hopefulness on the part of those who support other candidates at the thought that Howard Dean is now toast.

The media has and will play this up, since that is what they do nowadays. This is a really lame thing to try to nail Dean over. gods forbid he should be unscripted or show an emotion of any sort which is not poll-tested and pondered before hand. I like Howard Dean, I think he behaves like a real person. Too bad if it scares anyone.

[beaconess]

138. Exactly!

[ArtieBoy]

122. Here here!

I agree completely. We're in danger of proving the Republicans right that we prefer our representatives milqueotoast and bland. I'm all for a Dean/Edwards ticket, but I would support Clark and Kerry if they won. But Dean has a spunk and in-your-face fire that this party has been missing since at least 2000.

Hear our battle cry! "Yeaarrrgh!!!"

[Tactical Progressive]

101. I wuz terrafied

Save me, Geowarge Dubulyuh Boosh! Save me!

[indigo32]

102. NO

eom

[mmonk]

103. no

but the thought of the media using it instantly crossed my mind.

[boxster]

104. Yep. I had visions of this thing running often for at least a few days...

and then making repeat appearances in the general election if Dean won the nomination.

[arewethereyet]

106. I was worried he'd have a heart attack

but its hard to hurt me 2000 miles away through a TV.

He was clearly well past disappointed and only had one speech prepared.

Really sad.

[markus]

110. No, but the reaction from other candidates partisans does

As I suggested earlier, if the people starting in the "Deans flipping out on CNN" threads last night think that was civil discourse, I think Mommy and Daddy need to set a Cable News moratorium for them.

It was a pethetic echo of the right-wing spin in a cynical "enemy of my enemy is my friend" view of how to handle intra-party disputes.

[Piperay]

113. Gee I guess I am the only

person who didn't catch a bit of it and now I don't know what everyone is talking about. :shrug:

[boxster]

116. Believe me...you'll have plenty of opportunities to see it.

It's going to get a little media attention, guaranteed.

[Jerseycoa]

148. I suspect seeing it after you've heard of it

wouldn't produce the same reaction. This is why blaming the media doesn't work in this case. Almost everyone on DU last night saw it as it happened, before the press ever started reporting it. It was live and it was real and it was a public meltdown and it was very scary to anyone who wants the Dems to win the White House.

[Blitz]

117. Mostly. I felt relief

I imagined what may have been if he had held it together, become president and THEN came unglued under pressure. Is this a man that I would have wanted in a Cuban Missile Crisis-type situation? I don't think so.

I was relieved that he did this when he did.

[Zinnola]

118. Hell No!

I saw the whole speech and think this is such bullshit. If people scare that easily wait until the Bush cartel goes after your candidates. Really. This is soooo silly. Just because Dean did not follow the script and act like some subservient third place candidate rankles the establishment and I say GOOD! Give them hell Howard!

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ozone_man]

125. I confess, a chill ran up my back.

Dean always manages to do that to me. He has the spark to ignite a revolution from the establishment and all the candidates representing it. The Gepkerwardsark is a terrible creature, but one that has to be slain.

[Razoor]

140. no it did not make me mad

what made me mad though was tucker carlson's comments on crossfire
it wasnt that scary to grab your children and run out of the room.
but I also feared the media would have a field day with the clip
and looks like they did. but the speech he did today at that hotel seemed better.

[David Zephyr]

127. It Scared the Poo Poo Out of George Bush.

Thanks for your thread and for putting this in the right perpsective, dude! You're one of the very best here, Kentuck.

:thumbsup:

[SeveneightyWhoa]

133. Are you kidding?

You think George W was SCARED by that? He and all of his handlers were probably laughing their jolly asses right off.

[jpgpenn]

136. "Scared the Poo Poo Out of Bush" or made him laugh so hard he SHIT himself

?

edit; text fix

[TexasSissy]

128. I was terrified, stupefied, mortified, petrified (to steal from "A Beautif

ul Mind."

[theboss]

129. Scared? No. Alarmed? Yes.

I had my back to the tv when it started and did spin around pretty quickly. It was just so damn weird.

[Bonobo]

139. Honestly? He scared me.

You asked. I answered Believe it or not.

[Tatiana]

142. I wasn't scared. I was embarrassed.

As it was carried live, and I watched what started out as a pretty good speech go downhill, I thought to myself, "They're gonna play this video over and over again to show what crazed looneys those Democrats are." And what happened? All night they kept replaying that damn video. Nevermind Kerry's inspiration. Nevermind Edwards' eloquence. Nevermind Gep's farewell. The story was Dean and it didn't matter what channel, MSNBC, CNN, Faux, national news, local news... they all carried it, with commentator after commentator just sitting in stunned silence and then laughing uproariously.

I wish we could just forget about it and move on. Unfortunately, the pundits are still laughing about it today. They won't ever let us forget it.

[Ripley]

143. Unbelievable how people no longer know how to recognize reality.

I guess those "reality" shows on TV have totally oozed out what was left of common sense in Americans. They now think a politician must puff out his chest and in long monotonous never a decible raised-diatribes announce what he has done for 30 years or smile and wink and talk in "shiny happy people" sing-songy words.

What is wrong with passion I ask?

[Chomskyite]

145. It's the reaction that scares me

If you're at all passionate about politics, about the issues that are affecting our lives in America, and if you show it . . . you're going to be called crazy.

That's how apathetic we've become in this country. If you care and you show it, you've made a horrible mistake. You have self-destructed.

If you show you care, that means you can be trusted with NO position of responsibility.

I'm not disturbed at all by Dean's speech. I'm disturbed by your being disturbed.

[theboss]

155. Passion is not the same as gesticulating wildly

He gave the type of pep talk that a football coach about to lose his job gives.

I love passion. Gimme gimme passion. But have a point.

[Killarney]

146. I was embarrassed

It was replayed on the radio over and over today and everyone laughed at him.

[Chomskyite]

175. You obviously have never played much team sports

n/t

[dawn]

147. No, not at all.

My husband and I giggled a bit, but we just thought he was riled up.

Then again, I am a passionate person, from an Italian family, so I'm used to those kinds of things. :)

[Jerseycoa]

152. Heh heh

:D

[K8-EEE]

150. It Was Embarassing

Well, "fear" as in, if he gets the nam I'm "afraid" we will have 4 more years with GWB -- although I will vote for him if he gets the nom.

[adadem]

151. Honestly, yes.

My husband thought he was having a meltdown...called me to the tv. This has not done him one bit of good...people are laughing at him.

[Skip Intro]

156. I loved it!

Dean has passion. The media got its talking points quick on that one. I finally saw it today for the first time, and the whole time I wondered, "is this what some people are going on and on about?"

He was obviously naming state after state to illustrate that he's in this for the long haul. And that yeeehaa, or whatever it was at the end was perfect. It enthused me, as it did the crowd.

If you want to see a really scary speech, watch the SOTU tonight.

[Melinda]

157. Not fear - empowerment. :-)

[Southsideirish]

158. Your question scares me. Didn't you ever see a person who was

exhilarated? He is a human being, folks and was excited and exuberant. Howard Dean isn't a robot or a blow dried, vapid hair sprayed robot.
Go Howard - be yourself - the media will condemn you anyway as they will never tolerate an "outsider" getting anywhere - look what they did to Al Gore ("liar") and Jerry Brown ("Governor Moonbeam")

[KoKo]

159. Kick! This isn't "move along time" even though Chimp has stolen the

night. The vitriol against this speech needs to still be sorted out.

:kick:

[Spider Jerusalem]

164. Frightened? No.

However, it has changed my opinion of Dean somewhat. Before, I thought him a little unstable. Now I think he's barking mad. Passion is good. Raving is not. Herein lies the key to Dean's problem. To people who already support him, he's "passionate", "fiery", etc. But to the vast mass of undecided voters, he's a bloody nutter. He's preaching to the choir, but he's not winning any converts doing it.

[Aunt Eunice]

165. I thought it was over the top...

..and reinforced the argument that some make that his head is about to explode.

[Samantha]

166. I heard it described and thought it was going to be something horrendous

Then I saw it replayed on television and couldn't believe what a mountain people had made of this molehill. Then I started hearing suggestions Dean is subject to panic attacks. Where is this going from here, I couldn't help but wonder. This is the start of the open attack questioning his stability and sanity. How dirty. And if he tries to fight back, they will call him "negative."

The absolute worst thought I had about Dean was that he must be slaphappy and near exhausion. I don't know how he's done what he has done over the last two years.

I guess the only way he can respond to these criticisms is with humor. Remember what happened when people started calling him a liberal -- he embraced it. So here goes:

If you believe criticizing cutting taxes three times during a economic turndown is crazy, then call me crazy ...

If you believe criticizing starting a war against a country that hasn't fired a shot at you is crazy, then call me crazy ...

If you believe protesting a president in office who doesn't tell the truth to the American people is crazy, then call me crazy ...

That's what America needs in the White House at this time, and I am just crazy enough to go for it ....

Together we can buy that one-way bus ticket for George W. Bush back to Crawford, Texas, so I am hoping you are just crazy enough to vote for me...

:)

[Cassandra]

167. NO

He looked like he was having fun whipping up the crowd. Dee Dee Myers had a point that he should have used the TV time and attention to get more policy message across, but he wasn't scary.

[HuckleB]

168. No.

I just got back from a chat next door with about a dozen neighbors, including the lone Limbaugh dope, who was out to get his digs in on SOTU night. Of course, he brought up the Dean speech. Interestingly, no one else understand the hype about it. And, excepting myself, there are no other Dean supporters in that crowd, which included three Republicans (in addition to Limbo's pal) and a Kerry supporter, with the rest all in the Clark camp. They all looked at it as the press hyping nothing in something. And I didn't say a word on the subject.

[beaconess]

169. My experience has been just the opposite

Everywhere I went today, friends and co-workers (mostly Democrats) wanted to talk about the election and the somewhat surprising results. And the second thing they brought up, almost to a person, was "Did you see Howard Dean's speech? What up with THAT?"

[Toucano]

171. Not scared, really. More like uncomfortable.

I'm not sure it came across on televison the way it would have in person.

Mostly, I guess, it was unexpected.

[DoNotRefill]

180. Yup.....they expected him to come out wearing sack-cloth and ashes...

and being positive after a minor setback just blew their minds...HOW DARE HE NOT SURRENDER!!!!

[fujiyama]

172. MY first impression was...

"I guess this isn't too bad" (when he was discussing how far they had come from a year ago), then he started listing the states, and I'm thinking, "Ok, this is the usual Dean", then as he kept on going, I was honestly afraid he would simply fall over of a heart attack or aneurism. As he kept going, it became more and more bizarre. I also found it in poor taste when he mentioned all of his opponents states, including Gephardt (who had conceded by then). I couldn't believe many independants would be convinced to vote for him in the fall against Bush...Because frankly, that's all that matters.

[DoNotRefill]

182. Hate to point this out:

"I also found it in poor taste when he mentioned all of his opponents states, including Gephardt (who had conceded by then). "

but the states putting forth Democratic candidates (considering that many of them are elected officials already) are probably the same states that have a largly Democratic population. HOW DARE HE say he's going to fight for the Democratic "hearts and minds"!!!!

Also, how many candidates are there? He mentioned a buttload of States. Surely they're not ALL the home states of Democratic Presidential candidates, are they? And watching the speech, I noticed that he only mentioned Mass after somebody in the crowd yelled to him about leaving it out. Given that Kerry's from Mass, if he was targeting other candidate's home states, he probably would have hit Mass before he got called for leaving it out, wouldn't he?

[clarknyc]

173. No.

It energized me and reaffirmed my belief in this campaign.

[KaraokeKarlton]

176. Here's why people who don't support Dean responded as they did to it...

They just didn't expect it and didn't want to see him come out optimistic and still full of energy. They wanted to see a bruised and beaten Howard Dean. They wanted to see Dean react as Gephardt did. They wanted to break him, hoped to break him...and they didn't. Since they can't gloat and rejoice over his reaction, the only thing left to do is to imply that he behaved inappropriately simply because he didn't react the way THEY had hoped he would. I say too fucking bad! :D

[Toucano]

195. That's not what I was expecting.

Maybe what you say is true of some people. But I'm not (officially) a Dean supporter, yet I expected him to come out and address the reality of what happened.

I wanted him to say something like, "Tonight, Iowa has taught us that our mission is a formidable one. The Establishment and politics as usual will not surrender easily. If we're going to take this country back, it means we'll have to work even harder than we did here as we move on to New Hampshire, Carolina, Oklahoma..." etc. And fire up the crowd from there. He's better as an underdog anyway, and some humility at a unexpected defeat would be natural.

The approach he took only added fuel to the notion that he's out of control. He should never use that "growling" range of his voice.

Plenty of Dean supporters didn't care for that speech. Is it the end of Howard Dean? No way!

[DemBones DemBones]

177. I was shocked because he seemed close to a full-blown manic episode.

If you have no firsthand experience with someone having a manic episode, you wouldn't know that. Mania is a very frightening condition for anyone around the person. It's also frightening for sufferers, when the episode starts leveling off and they realize they've acted inappropriately.

Maybe Dean is McGovern AND Eagleton all by himself?

[Triana]

178. Not scared...

...I think the neo-con rightwingnuts and their media punditocracy blew Dean's commentary all out of proportion.

Dean is NOT the first candidate with a passionate delivery. Jeeze. I was not embarassed, 'skeered', nor did I think his response/speech to be at all frightening or angry. For chrissake the man was smiling broadly during the whole thing. He may have been passionate and enthusiastic - but I saw nothing wrong with that....

[DoNotRefill]

179. when Winston Churchill gave his "We will fight on the beaches" speech...

he didn't deliver it in a monotone.

Passionate belief doesn't frighten me.

[JI7]

181. i thought it was funny

didn't scare me at all. but i did think it was kind of funny. the biggest and probably only problem with it was perception , especially among those not really into politics as much as we are. i also wonder why dean did it. i'm sure it was aimed at his base, his most loyal supporters. but did he consider the consequences of it among a wider audience ?

[Monument]

190. He scared my wife but not me <eom>

[arwalden]

192. It Was Like Watching An Off-Key Contestant On American Idol

It gave me the creeps and made me feel embarrassed for him. :-)

-- Allen

If all else fails, he's got a good job doing commercials for tractor-pulls. (Sunday! Sunday!! SUNDAY!!)

[adadem]

200. LOL n/t

[evil_orange_cat]

196. Dean's speech scared me away...

Not because it scared me because I'm a wimpy baby... it scared me in the sense that Howard portrayed himself exactly as the media has been labeling him: an angry, angry man...

Let me tell you, if I wasn't a Dean supporter at the time; his speech would have made me laugh.

[Algorem]

199. His vocal chords were screwed up from campaigning(as were Kerry's),

had to yell so he could use the parts of his vocal chords that weren't wrecked he was smiling the whole time,he tried to do the "Rawhide" yell at the end,making a motion with his arm like he was snapping a whip,and the yell came out the way it did because of his messed up vocal chords, and I'm sick of hearing this Rove-inspired dirt.

[barbaraann]

206. Nope. You should see me screaming about the BFEE.

It's a good thing we don't have any close neighbors because they might call think there was a domestic violence situation and call the cops.

I must admit my husband was a little taken aback, but he always ends up voting how I vote anyway. :-)

[genius]

207. He embarrassed the party. He is a liability.

We need someone who can control himself.

[DemLikr]

208. You realize you sound just like anyone of the Repub pundits

Interesting how well we do their work for them

[DemLikr]

209. He was energized, full of fire, having fun...we can't have THAT in

the Repub-controlled Twilight Zone of the American Zeitgeist, which must be populated at all times by Pod-People who take their talking points from the RNC.

[Butterflies]

213. No, not scared

Dean is not my choice for our nominee, so I'm not defending him because he's my man or anything. I had read about the speech and the strange yell before I saw it on TV and I assumed it must've been horrible because it got so much negative attention. But when I saw it on the News and then again on the Daily Show last night I didn't think it was a big deal at all. These guys are under enormous pressure and he was letting off some steam while keeping his disappointed supporters energized. I read that he didn't know a camera was on him at the time. Nope, no big deal.