The reason *I* encourage people not to come to 1/20's protest.

[Jackie97]

This is just my reasoning. I'm sticking my neck out on this one by saying it.

I have a fear that somebody might do something really bad on that day. It might be anarchists who care about nothing but their cause. It might also be a far right winger who thinks Bush is too far to the left.

The reason why I think this is because of the march I went to after the Iraqi war was officially over. People felt like they shouldn't come to the march, so they didn't. We had went down from hundreds of thousands of protesters to about 12 thousand. I was looking around me and discovered a heck of a lot of cops on horses and cops in general. It was argued that they were up there because World Bank protests were there that weekend, but I had been to protest on the same weekend of that before. There weren't a tenth of the cops. The real idea was to try to stamp out any form of protest against the occupation in Iraq.

The cops kept trying to scatter us and so forth. They almost went in for the kill at one point. At one point, some anarchists pulled some serious junk (don't know what it was because I couldn't see) and blocked the marchers. The cops decided to use that as an excuse to try to go after all of us. The motorcycles started racing up front. In one case, I saw a little girl get all snotty and stand out in front of a cop's motorcycle. One could argue that her parents shouldn't have brought her there, but this wouldn't excuse what the cop would do next. The cop screamed at her to move. She wouldn't move. He started up his motorcycle and started riding. He *would* have hit her if she didn't move in time. What if she didn't move in time? I would have witnessed a cop running over a child.

As we went further to the front, the cops were scattering us more. We were hanging onto each other not knowing if we were about to be arrested for no good reason or beaten up for no good reason. The anarchists had pulled their stunt, and now the cops would take full advantage of it. I was holding hands with some of the other protesters to try to stay together through the scattering. One girl just whined "Why don't they tell us where to go? We'll go there?". I just fussed out "Because they don't want us to know where to go". They wanted their excuse to get us. We got on the sidewalk for the moment. A few moments later, we went back out in the streets to try to continue marching. However, the anarchists were still blocking us and the cops were still about to go in on us. We had to start screaming "Let's keep marching!" to the anarchists and at the same time scream out "Cops, back off!" at the cops. After a few minutes, we got through the anarchists and the cops left us alone. I found out immediately afterwards that the cops had beaten up a libertarian.

What's the point in my story? The point is this. I fear that on January 20th, something really nasty is going to be pulled. What if it actually involved the president? THE COPS WOULD TAKE IT OUT ON EVERYBODY AND GO IN FOR THE KILL. They wouldn't give a hoot that a crowd is miles away from somebody pulling junk. They would take it out on all marchers.

This event is so different because the president will actually be a part of it, and because angry tentions will be very high. If something really nasty gets pulled, I don't want to find out that any of you all were in a lightyear of the incident. Plus, it will look like you're more there just out of hatred for Bush than out of hatred for his policies. Imagine going through junk just to be misunderstood.

This doesn't mean laying down and not fighting Bush's policies. This means picking your battles. I want everybody to seriously think about this before going to this protest. The truth is that if the cops beat the daylights out of you and arrest you for something some anarchists pull, it WON'T be considered an honor to America. The media will portray you and everybody else involved as some crazy ancarchist who is a supposed danger to America. They won't care if it isn't really true, I think they'll still claim it to be true.

Wait until later for the other protests to come. We will be having them. I promise.

For those of you who are going, try to stay away from anarchists. For those of you who don't know who they are, a lot of them might have an ANSWER sign. I think they're considered to be anarchists. Try to stay away from those people. They're polite to your face, but they will get you in trouble. They won't do it because they actually care about Bush's policies. They'll do it because they want to promote their revolutionary cause. They don't care much about anything else, so don't hang around them if you go to this protest.

I'm not saying this to encourage not fighting. I'm saying this because I've been in the game for a while. I'm a little unsure how long some of the others have been into this stuff.

[nadinbrzezinski]

I guarantee infiltrators

watch a video of the protests in the South. What you described is EXACLTY out of that playbook. To stop going to protests, out of fear is a victory to them.

I knwo you mean well, but if I were in DC right now, I would be there on the 20th, and yes I expect some shit to be pulled... but that is not a reason NOT TO GO. It is more of a reason, after all you will have all the foreign press covering this as well.... and if shit does go down, you will have to watch it on foreign press. It is also the only chance we have to let the world know, sorry this guy is NOT popular.

Oh and yes the boy king will be there, with a reinforced brigade (2600 troops) and 6000 officers, from multiple agencies. So WHAT? Fear is what they want to push... and hate.

[Rockerdem]

2. FBI agent provocateurs are a bigger worry

They will use it as justification for bigger slice of Homeland Security Budget and to win brownie points from AWOL.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. I was not specific of who I was talkng when I

said infiltrators

When it comes to the FBI can you say CONTIELPRO?

;-)

But they are just one of the many concerns.

[PassingFair]

17. Yup, here is that "picking your battles" meme again.

Anyone within driving distance should try to go. I see this as an attempt to manipulate us. MSM says "turn out will be low". Our own Manchurian Candidate posters say "stay home".
GO!

[Jackie97]

18. Not suggesting that.

I'm not suggesting not to go to protests out of fear. I'm saying to pick your battles.

Ask yourself if this protest is worth getting the heck beaten out of yourself? I don't think it is if it's made to look like all the protesters against Bush were "bad". As for the foreign news, we're not trying to convince foreigners of our case. We're trying to convince Americans (who are often too afraid to trust the foreign news).

[annabanana]

20. exactly at what point are you willing to risk something

like a whack with a billy club? or a trip to the clink? Which battle would you pick to actually stand up?

[Jackie97]

29. I've picked several battles....

and was completely okay with the idea of suffering the consequences. I decided a long time ago that most of the progressive causes were worth getting hurt for, being put in prison for, and dying for.

So, don't even start with that junk.

There's a difference between being brave and doing something that can make your cause worse. Going to a protest of an event where something might happen to the president is not a good idea. It's just plain stupid.

It's called picking your battles.

We need you all FOR THE FUTURE PROTESTS. Do not sacrifice your freedom or something worse on a protest that is entirely not worth risking yourself on. We need you in future protests. We need you in the abortion rights protests, the anti-war protests, the gay rights protests, the women's rights protests, the anti-globalization protests, and other protests. We don't need you to risk your freedom and yourself in general just for the stupid crowning of the emperor. This one isn't worth it.

[Mojambo]

1. Entirely reasonable advice

Protect democracy, but also protect yourself.

[oneold1-4u]

34. Tranquilizers

will be in order for many on that day. The president, himself, is very fearful, to the point of schizo paranoia. That type of thing is like a bad germ spreading easily and rapidly. Those who go to be with bush at this time (supreme court, congress, present and former cabinet members etc.) have reason to feel the fear. Fear has been the tool of this administration from the beginning and they deserve to have a big share in it for at least a day.
My concern would be any small error; a backfire, firecrackers, a siren or many unexplained things that will set up a day of destruction. A security person, scared that he hasn't noticed something is very much like it was at Kent state, only worse.

[Grace]

4. Why bother with any protest?

Has all the protesting in the last four years changed one Bush policy?

Or is it about not looking like such assholes to the rest of the world? Sure let the world know that a chunk of Americans do not support Bush, but it is only a statement. A statement that will get a measly 4 seconds of airtime on the major networks, and be dismissed as crazies... There has to be a more productive way to use our energies. What does the enemy do?

For some reason I never hear stories of the right wingers staging massive protests. Is it the media, or do they just not protest much? Other than the Alabama Ten Commandments fiasco and the occasional abortion rally, I have not heard from much of the right in the way of protest. Anyone have any idea what they do on the grassroots level? It seems to be working better than what we do.

On Thursday I will be watching the 4 second clip of you on the evening news. Give 'em hell! (and acomplish nothing)

[MichiganVote]

6. Sounds like you should stay home

[Piperay]

I have to agree

I protested throughout the 'dirty dozen' years of Raygun/Bush and feel I totally wasted my time. I'm not making that mistake again.

[Jackie97]

19. Protests have helped to a point.

They helped to raise awareness to the issue that all Americans don't support certain policies (like the war), causing more Americans to take up the cause. So many people supported the war with Iraq at first. I thought the protests were almost pointless. The next thing I knew, Bush was being exposed as somebody who "lied" about WMDs and about 50% of America said that the war with Iraq was a mistake. Now, Americans don't even want to go to Iran and North Korea for the most part. After the pro-choice march, Bush backed off of allowing our private records to be non-private. It does matter.

You are right though. The right are doing things that we're not in my opinion. They often try to participate in activities that lets the common man know that they care about them. Those right winged fundamentalists do a lot of charities for example. I realize that we (as liberals) do often go into secular charities, but maybe it's time to start up our own charities and similar groups to reach out to the community. Let the common man/woman know how much we care about them instead of just preaching at them about why they need to support a cause. Black Panthers did this when they helped bring food to the poor years ago.

[leesa]

5. There's always someone coming out with this junk before a major protest

Do you think they are going to have a picnic? If you are afraid, stay home.

[rzemanfl]

8. The fact that the Bush Administration has so abruptly changed

its tune on this one make me leery. Good luck and make sure you have an escape route.

[musette_sf]

12. but I think this is different

There is something about all this, this time, that gives me a bad feeling. For me it is the RoboCop uniform and gear provided for the LE, and the actual bleacher space for protest on the coronation parade route. (This stinks out loud to me.) And today, the silly red herring from Time (hahaha) about a limo bomb rumor or such other ridiculousness, gives me the feeling that we're about to see some of the old ultraviolence.

My bet is on an fall-person infiltrator, who will pretend to attempt a very bad thing, and the response that will make Kent State look like a love-in. And all "investigation" of the perp will point back to the left. S/he'll be kinda like a Lee Harvey Oswald kind of person. (Not that s/he will ever get that far... only that this will be how s/he is painted by the media.)

Then it'll be martial law and Bar The Door, Katie.

(Obligatory message to that Fibbie dude who hangs around here: I am nothing, a no one, I haven't got a bloody clue, I am a mushroom like the rest of the American people. I just watch a lot of Forensic Files, and have been around long enough to remember history and to buy a clue.)

[Telly Savalas]

13. Ya really think the GOP want their day of self-adulation...

to be spoiled by news footage of a kids having their heads bashed in by riot police?

[Vinnie From Indy]

14. Great Name! Great Post! n/t

[musette_sf]

26. oh please

that would be the Cool Whip atop their Marie Callender's pie!

[Telly Savalas]

30. I disagree...

but that's a good way of putting it. :-)

[jonnyblitz]

7. we always get a slew of these 'don't go" posts for every protest

there is ALWAYS a reason it seems not to protest. fortunately nobody pays attention...

[justiceischeap]

9. Were people this concerned for the 2001 coronation?

What's funny is how much this attitude parallels the Montgomery, Alabama Bus Boycott led by Dr. King. I just finished watching "Boycott" and there were people with the same attitudes, including Dr. King's own father. There were many people who also thought marching on Selma was a bad idea. I guess they were right, huh?

A great line from Coretta Scott King in the movie:

"History is not an accident, history is a choice."

What choice will you make?

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. We could still be fighting

in Vietnam if not for the massive protests that, IMO, helped bring that war to an end.

[Vinnie From Indy]

10. A Quote From Martin Luther King Addresses Your Position Perfectly

"Our lives begin to end the day we become
silent about things that matter." MLK

[Jackie97]

21. Oh, don't put words in my mouth!

I hate it when somebody does that. I'm not saying to be silent. I'm saying this particular protest is a bad idea. They're all dangerous, but this one is dangerous for a really good reason, which I'll state in another post in this thread.

[IndianaGreen]

11. And you are now sliming anarchists?

I have a fear that somebody might do something really bad on that day. It might be anarchists who care about nothing but their cause. It might also be a far right winger who thinks Bush is too far to the left.

Need I remind you that the Bush/Cheney regime has been the most violent and murderous Administration in our country's bloody history? And you worry about violence by the anti-Bush forces? If there is any violence it will come from rightwing provocateurs. If we become paralyzed by fear of what "they" might do, we will become unwilling accomplices in their crimes.

[Jackie97]

22. Not all anarchists, just some.

Any anarchist that tries to get their fellow protesters beaten to a pulp by the police to gain political power as the anarchists in the protest I was at tried to do is slime.

You act like all leftists care about you. THEY DON'T.

Just like all right wingers don't care about their fellow right wingers.

[peacetalksforall]

15. The cabal and cabal supporters have more to gain by getting

through it all without any violence.

Did anyone watch CBS Sunday Morning? What exesses of money - the packages these attendees are buying is gross - parties with chocolate boots - 3000 foot hotel rooms.

Do they want to ruin this and not get the money from this next time? Do you think the hoteliers haven't met with everyone to make sure it isn't bloody?

On the other hand, if I were them, I might want something to deflect from gross excesses.

And that same evening and on those same days, hundreds of women will be checking into homeless shelters with their hungry kids. Hopefully, if in Washington, DC, any protest skirmishes won't be in front of the shelter.

We are back to the days of extreme wealth and extreme poverty - the stuff of fairy tales.

[candy331]

16. I watched Hitler on the History channel today, all the interviewed said

they did not know nor had any idea what was happening, they thought the people were deported or simply let go but never did they imagine that they were being slaughtered by the thousands/millions which was found out later to be. You have to suppose they did not want to know but they sure as hell found out when Hitler started out on them along with the Jews. "Live for nothing/Die for Something"

[Jackie97]

23. Okay guys, let me put things another way.

I really didn't want to put it this way in fear of drawing attention to myself.

I fear that an assassination attempt could get made on Bush. I have no evidence or direct reason to believe that. It's just that I can't help but think that if anybody is going to try to kill Bush, it would be January 20th.

Now, ask yourself. Do you really want to be in the crowd of protesters if Bush gets wacked?

There are plenty of protests to fear going to, and I admire the protesters who go to every single one of them (ones for leftist ideas that is). I admired those who went to the GOP convention protest for example. However, I honestly believe that if somebody is going to make an attempt to kill Bush, it will be that day. You do NOT want to be in the crowds that day if that happens. I'm not talking about avoiding all dangerous protests. I'm not talking about becoming silent against Bush. I'm saying it would be a good idea to be millions of miles away from Bush on a day when he might very well be killed.

I have no evidence that this could happen, and I don't want assassination to. Imagine how bad the left would look if it did happen. Imagine the backlashes to our causes in general. The belief that this type of violence could happen that particular day just common sense. If anybody's going to try it, it might be that day. Do not go.

[annabanana]

24. so "a really bad feeling" is your point?

While I respect hunches as much as the next person, this is about as compelling as the "color alerts" and the "raised awareness" episodes whenever some new (old) piece of semi-intelligence came to light.

[Jackie97]

28. Common sense is my point.

That's where some of my really bad feelings come from.

Common sense wise, if somebody was going to try to do something to the president, what days might it happen on? It's common sense.

[American Tragedy]

27. That sort of thing hasn't happened in a long time in America, Jackie.

If it did, I would be more likely to attribute it to a criminally insane individual seeking public attention, as in the cases of Hinckley or Arthur Bremer, rather than a political dissident.

I too hope with all of my heart that such a thing doesn't happen.

[American Tragedy]

25. What disturbs me most is the heavily armed military presence.

What the hell could possibly happen, that would justify forces carrying grenade launchers, in addition to the requisite snipers and Secret Service guards?

My God, you would think that the Chinese army was descending on Pennsylvania Ave. with AK-47s.

Seriously, what are they anticipating? It's got to be more than just a few pissed off young radicals.

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. Don't forget to do this

------------------------------------------------------
Join the new Boston Tea Party!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/index.htm#shopping

[LittleClarkie]

32. I was having "Kent State" feelings today

I don't like how the area has been declared a near war zone.

[burn the bush]

33. I think the shrub is just paranoid as hell

I think it goes with the delusions of grandeur thing. As far as violence, I always worry in a crowd about something stupid happening. But I think that the shrub is totally safe and I think that there will be few problems with the coronation. The feeling that we are getting is most likely due to us understanding how low they will go. None of us can doubt that they would love to get us in a group and ooops us.

[Tinoire]

36. Bull. If YOU have a bad feeling- YOU stay home

stay away from anarchists...A lot of them might have an ANSWER sign...

LMFAO!

ANSWER is & has been the LOUDEST voice against this war and the largest organizer of protests.

What's your problem with ANSWER? The fact that they're also a very loud voice supporting justice for the Palestinians?

Everytime there's an antiwar protest these same posts pop up. Stay home... Stay away from ANSWER. ANSWER is communist. ANSWER is Al-Qaeda. Now it's ANSWER is anarchist!!!

Unfrigginbelievable.

We're going to be there in large numbers to shame Bush and shame all those who dare pretend that thinking Americans agree with any of his policies- especially the ones for re-arranging the Middle East.

[Bake]

37. I too am concerned about the heavy military presence

Posse comitatus just went out the window, and nobody said a word.

One thing about the military: they like to "play with their toys." IF anything happens, it will turn into a bloodbath.

I saw the Hitler program on the History Channel, and it fucking gave me cold chills! There are just so many parallels, it's downright eerie.

Bake