Why is Kerry doing "chatty chat" with Condi...it's like gross....

[KoKo]

What's going on here. Kerry blasted her this a.m. and it seems he's caved in this "late session." They are "chatting with each other."

Boxer and Dodd had Condi caught in her own Lies. With Kerry in this late session I'm thinking maybe Condi is correct in her views. It reminds me of a discussion between two professors...over which GPA should be the standard. :shrug:

I know. He's a prosecutor...and he's catching her out..very skillfully even though she will be confirmed. I guess I thank him for trying to engage her in an intellectual conversation. It's good he wasn't too confrontational.

[E_Smith]

1. Kerry is loving this

i think he is hoping to make her hang herself w/ circular logic. i'm not a lawyer but this seems like some kind of "socratic" method of questioning.

[LittleClarkie]

9. Hoping that circular logic will make her dizzy?

Hmmm, interesting.

A wascally wabbit, this Kerry.

[Old and In the Way]

2. Gee, a negative post from you on Kerry?

Hard to believe.

[KoKo]

5. You know I take offense to your comment about me...I worked my butt

off for Kerry and convinced two Freeps to vote for the guy...you want to trash me? Let me tell you I don't deserve your misguided abuse on this...You don't know ME or WHAT THE HELL I'VE DONE FOR KERRY... STUFF IT, BUDDY!

BTW: worked on the ground...door to door...Poll Watched and am involved locally...I know what the hell the deal is here... DO YOU????

[LittleClarkie]

8. When does the GOTV whine currency run out

How much GOTV buys you how much abuse?

Analogy time: So you bought her dinner. Does that give you the right to abuse her afterwards?

[KoKo]

17. If you are speaking to me...I wasn't GOTV....

:D you got the wrong person, here.

[LittleClarkie]

22. No but you hold up your work for Kerry as giving you the right

I find this a questionable assertion. Does he owe someone like you, who worked for him, more than he does someone who didn't work for him? Does working for him give a person -- not just you because I don't know if you do this without stop -- the right to be continually negative in regard to him?

[KoKo]

26. What I hear you say is that folks who worked for Kerry within Dem Party,

gave up time and personal money on the ground, canvassing door to door, calling folks, volunteering time they could spend with their families, volunteering to watch the vote...attending endless meetings and convincing Repugs that Kerry was the one...are not important.

You are saying that those who worked for Kerry/Edwards gave up endless time and gave money from their own pockets for flyers and other materials don't have a voice about Kerry?

Is that what you are saying. That I'm some kind of puffed up person because I worked my butt off for a candidate...that I don't have a voice about the candidate. :shrug:

[LittleClarkie]

38. No, because that would be like saying I don't have a voice either

Sorry if it doesn't apply to you yourself, but I'm just tired of the snark. Not that folks shouldn't have a voice, but to be continually reminded that some people are disappointed, the same people, continueally disappointed, continually letting us know that their feelings of abandonment haven't changed since yesterday, gets a bit tiresome.

It's not that folks are critical. It's the "too little too late" posts. It's the "Maybe he should stay in Iraq" posts. It's the "I'm glad he lost" posts. Not constructive, not helpful, just freaking tedious.

And then many of them say, as you just said, "I have the right, because I worked for him." To criticize, yes. To bash, no. That's like excusing abuse because the man bought the woman dinner, and figured he owed her.

I don't think working for a candidate gives a person the right to bash and repetitively post the same sarcastic comments. And there is a difference between that, and honest criticism.

As I say, it might not apply to you. Sorry if my frustration spilled out onto you unduly.

[KoKo]

39. yes..

your criticism spilled out on me "unduly." IMHO :D

[Old and In the Way]

44. Odd behaviour for such a loyal and hard working Democrat, no?

I'm deeply saddened for this country that Kerry wasn't able to overcome the structural Republican advantages that are in play in our country today. My gut says he won, but it was close enough for the Republicans to steal and the media to validate it.

But do I have bad feelings about Kerry? No way. I worked and voted for lots of Democrats who've run and lost. I wouldn't change my vote or my respect and admiration for these people.

Sadly, I doubt anyone would have beaten Bush given the forces at play today. I'm afraid the big losers are the 50% or so who voted for Bush, given the record of mismanagement and criminal malfeasence of the past 4 years. They helped to lay the groundwork for the destruction of the country that they claim to love so much.

[LittleClarkie]

46. I wonder what it was like for the Germans who supported Hitler

when they finally woke up to what Hitler was and had done. Shame, utter shock, excuse-making. I wonder.

This was my first real campaign. Does it normally feel like somebody died when you lose?

[Q]

74. I just left another discussion...

...where YOU and certain other posters have hijacked threads over your disapproval of what DUers have to say about Kerry.

Is it a coincidence? Or are you intentionally trying to prevent people from discussing their concerns about Kerry by disrupting their threads?

[Dr Fate]

55. I agree- we can alway find moderates & swing voters do it instead!!!

And they dont whine & complain.

I hope they work as hard-but even if they dont, at least they wont keep questioning if our time honored strategies have somthing to do with this 3 election national losing streak!!!

Keep the faith baby!!!

[cindyw]

20. So you worked hard and do not deserve criticism, but Kerry who spend

24 hours a day for a year and a half trying to help us defeat Bush, he deserves your reproach. Interesting logic.

[KoKo]

27. What did you do for Kerry? Or, did you work for anyone

in the last election or in any years before? Who did you work for and what are your experiences. What have you learned from working for a candidate who lost...or any candidates who won or lost? :shrug:

[cindyw]

30. I don't have to answer to you about my support for Kerry.

I am just suggesting that it is hypocritical for you to trash Kerry who worked his ass off and then suggest that you are beyond reproach because you worked hard.

[0007]

73. Get off it sister, who in the hell do you think you are, Mother Teresa?

The old Tokyo KoKo act again, 'eh?

[lojasmo]

76. She was obviously Kerry's scheduler...Duh! N/T

[Old and In the Way]

42. Please, spare me the overworked histrionics.

I have no idea what you did or didn't do to help Kerry's campaign in this election. What I do know is that you've been consistantly trashing him since the primaries here. So pardon me if I don't take your professed outrage too seriously.

[KoKo]

43. Please spare me from your posts which do nothing but attack. n/t

[Old and In the Way]

45. No attack, just an observation. nt

[Dr Fate]

52. Hi KoKo- I've been getting the same shit too.

And I've been heavily involved and was practically a fucking cheerleader for the guy.

Dont sweat it- some will demand action and some will make excuses.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

4. I think it's great.

It's a very different, subtle style. He's just trying to out-intellectualize her. He's also touching on some very deep issues, like when he was talking about the Iraqi people feeling so isolated- he layed out this emotional blanket over the whole war.

[Carni]

15. He could sit there with his thumb up his ass and out-intellectualize her

The woman is a whiny buffoon.

ooops! I think Kerry just jammed her so maybe you are right (according to my husband who is listening in the other room, so perhaps I should shut up! lol)

[AlCzervik]

6. probing...digging

[rodeodance]

7. yes, kerry is asking deep questions--I like them chatting

[LittleClarkie]

10. A quiet snare?

Lulled to sleep and then SNAP, perhaps?

[Guaranteed]

14. No, he's not doing that.

He's engaging her, and I think he's filibustering, too, trying to tire her out. Force another day.

[Leilani]

21. They already planned another day hours ago

EOM

[Guaranteed]

32. They were talking about a vote, though, at the end of the night.

And Lugar suggested having another day after the vote, it seemed.....

I think Kerry was waiting for everyone to leave so there wouldn't be a vote, because after that they could get out of more hearings.

:shrug:

[Leilani]

35. No, Some Senators couldn't stay tonight

like Biden, who had an appointment to be on TV, so Lugar scheduled more hearings for 9 AM tomorrow.

[Dr Fate]

54. No no- hes "giving her enough rope to hang herself with"

"Playing rope a dope"

"Moving chess pieces"

"Trying not to upset swing voters"

"using strategy"

"being nuanced"

"afraid Rove will send him anthrax"

(insert excuse here)

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dr Fate]

60. He's waiting for just the right moment...Its a quiet trap!!!

And then hes gonna come off the ropes and really get those Republicans!!!- Just like he did to Bush.

Very nuanced. Perhaps it will actually work someday in the distant future, when all those precious swing voters get their library cards and start watching CSPAN.

Hey- I'm half kidding- but if you think I'm gonna make excuses, forget it.

[LittleClarkie]

63. Riiiight.

No, just going about the unglamorous business of asking questions of the nominee. No excuses needed. Just a lowering of expectations to normal levels. I think we're approaching fantasy land in here lately. Nevertheless, I'm not looking for a quiet trap. This isn't the movies. I have no expectations. I never watched the process this close before. It can be a touch boring, can't it.

The man's just doing his job, folks. Sorry he's interrupting the Boxer Variety Hour, but might I suggest that some of y'all need to let her off that pedestal before she falls off.

[Dr Fate]

65. Everythings going to be wonderful . Condi will do a great job.

She probably wont lie again. And even if she does, we will let it slide-we need to "do our jobs" after all!

I'm looking forward to moving on- I'll bet she will do some GREAT things!!

There- hows that- is that clear-eyed, and restrained enough? :)

Good night- thanks for all the fish.

[LittleClarkie]

67. No, your eyes seem clouded by animosity, frankly

I doubt she will do great things.

You don't seem restrained at all. I think it would take a wrap around leisure suit that buckels in the back to accomplish the kind of restraint you seem to need at the moment.

Even so, I'd be surprised if she isn't confirmed. To think otherwise is the same to me as thinking we were going to flip the election on 1/6. We must face reality even as we fight for what is right. There are battles that will be won, and some that will be lost. Right now, at least the Dems are bringing up some really good stuff. Nevertheless, do they have enough to hold against her that would prevent her nominationr? Would the ones who don't want to confirm her have a majority. We shall see.

Should be interesting to see who votes yea or nay. May I invite you to add some crow to your fish if your favorite punching bag votes nay? Would you do that for a sister Dem?

[Dr Fate]

68. I praise him when he does right.

And during the election, I praised him and made excuses for him even when he did wrong.

He did alright today, and I would be very happy if he symbolically votes her down.

Hope he does. I never said he would not.

If we had been agressive all along, things would be REALLY diiferent- thats why I'm defending the notion that its okay to "bash" or ask for more, better & different tactics from DEMS.

Again, dont expect me to make excuses-I call it tough love! :)

[CWebster]

72. Dr Fate!

Seems you finally hit that threshold with eyes wide open.

;-)

[hector459]

11. He needs to stop. He is taking the news focus off of the whipping Boxer

and Dodd gave her. She appears to be holding her own with Kerry so this is counterproductive.

[KoKo]

19. Yes...that was the point of my post...He cancelled out what Boxer did..n/t

[Carni]

12. Hopefully he has some diabolical plan because this is indeed nauseating

I am not into this warm and fuzzy, casual *sharing of ideas* BS at all...I am not interested in Bucky Beaver's lies and spin.

I preferred the approach of Dodd and Boxer!

[robbedvoter]

33. More Kerry secret plans? Wow!

[LittleClarkie]

59. Nah, he's just questioning the nominee

ie, just doing his job. Imagine that.

Sorry he's upstaging the wondrous Boxer, but then darlings, she's not the only senator of worth.

I fear for that poor woman when she falls out of favor.

God forbid she should vote for Condi, for example.

Please, let her off the pedestal before she falls off. I don't need my fightin' senators bruised, ya know.

You can stop rabbit punching Kerry any time, too.

Criticism is cool. The continuous bash (meaningful stare at the robbed voter) is not.

[PassingFair]

47. He has a diabolical plan alright...

to bore us all to death.

[noamnety]

13. The longer they chat

The more of her statements are on the record. And the more comfortable she feels, the more she speaks. This can only be a good thing.

Aside from that, aside from wanting to trap her in logical falsehoods, I think he has a genuine interest in schooling her a bit in what's needed, foreign policy-wise, in the interest of what's good for our country. Not for his ego, but for the country.

Also he's getting his own opinion of what's needed, and what might happen, on the record, so when they fuck things up again, she can't say "I had no idea that would happen."

[Carni]

18. Logically I know this...but my gut reaction is revulsion

Those saying he is probing etc are right... but as a hot head without any patience (that would be me) this is hard to take.

[femme.democratique]

34. I think this is likely the case.

[Pastiche423]

16. Thank god he finally shut up!

What the hell was that all about?

[Leilani]

36. I believe that was part of Kerry's plan to stay in the forefront

look Presidential, & run again in 2008.

[Gloria]

40. Yeah, I got the feeling he was going on the record for himself as well

as trying to question Rice. As he talked and talke about his trip, I got the feeling he was trying to build himself up.

Maybe I'm just overly suspicious at this point....

[LittleClarkie]

69. But this was one of the reasons he went on that trip

I would think he brought it up because it lends weight to what he's saying. He has first-hand knowledge. They can't say he doesn't know what he's talking about. He's been there and seen for himself.

I'm disappointed, by the way, to once again see the "He's running for 2008" meme again.

I refuse, absolutely refuse to see everything he does through that "He's running for 2008" lens, when it could just as easily be the "I'm not going away and neither should you" lens instead.

How is he supposed to do what he said about continuing to fight the Bush agenda when every time he opens his mouth or appears anywhere, someone says "He's running for 2008! Well, fuck him then!" It's so self-defeating.

Someone refused to sign his petition against Rummy today because they didn't support him for 2008. For pity's sake, that's 3 1/2 years away! Can we get some work done before the primary season comes to tear us apart again. Can we stop fighting primary battles for just five minutes. Geez louise!!

[Malva Zebrina]

23. I agree

this was like they were chatting over a glass of wine, a slice of apple and some cheese and crackers.


This exchange made no sense to me at all. It was a contest over who knew more than the other.

I am sorry,I think Senator Kerry is a good man, but this was a little out of it, imo and contributed little except to display Kerry's grasp of events, and also,btw, Rice's.

As for the condition of our nation-as for the deaths in an illegal war,--as for the lies, as for the abject disregard of the people of this nation and their condition--neither of them seem to have a clue or seem inclined to want to change it.

He might very well vote for her confirmation and I would not be surprised.

[sandnsea]

24. Chatty chat?

He just called her on not spending the money on nuclear proliferation. Not even having it on the agenda with the Russians. Eliminating uranium enrichment altogether, which also means OURS. Chatty chat? I don't know why I'm even surprised at this shit anymore.

[KoKo]

41. He came out "guns blazing" this a.m....but late today on 2nd round..he

did "chatty, chat." If C-Span replays it, you can see... I watched it all day...eyes falling out of head. I think he's got jet lag or something but it was "chat."

[sandnsea]

49. I watched 2nd round

Missed the first round. It was definitely NOT chatty chat. Unless you can't communicate without screaming in your own life and just don't know what civilized questions and answers sound like. I honestly don't know what perverse pleasure you get out of being so hateful towards Kerry. It's like you can't go a day without posting some divisive shit about him.

[kerrygoddess]

50. He left no stone uncovered... Chat my ass!

I just finished reading through the almost 30 pages of exchange between Kerry and Condi in the NYTimes.

There was not a stone left uncovered by Kerry today. Boxer, who I deeply respect, may have shown her fire, but Kerry left no stone unturned. From Iran, to North Korea, to the lack of exit strategy and so much more, Kerry was on it. In the end, he put Condi on notice about working together in the future and what he expects from his 20 years of service to the committee.

Hopefully I went back and found the right page to link to to start JK's long afternoon of questioning - http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/18/politics/18TEXT-RICE2.html?pagewanted=18

[dvaravati]

25. playing it safe after losing

tells a lot.

[XemaSab]

28. "I'm looking forward to working with you?"

More like "I'm looking forward to bending over and taking it up the tookus for four more years."

[E_Smith]

29. do you think this is sincere

or just political posturing so that he can say "I tried to reach out" but these fascists wouldn't listen.

[XemaSab]

31. He sure sounded sincere

and if you look at his voting record, he's voted with Bush a significant percent of the time in the last 4 years. IWR, anyone?

[bush_is_wacko]

37. Because he recognizes that she does hold the knowledge to serve in this

position and wants to make sure she understands he is NOT going to allow her to take this responsibility lightly. Why didn't Bush put Powell in her old position and her in this position? They are both far more qualified to serve in those capacities than the ones they were in!

[Clarkie1]

48. Typical Kerry "having it both ways" behavior n/t

[loyalsister]

51. He knows she'll be confirmed

He wants to be able to have some influence as policy evolves.
People here act like real world politics should be like office politics. That's not the way it works. It's a more sophisticated game and requires more finesse. People here forget that it's not just a business venture or their own job riding on Senatorial interactions.
You don't just antagonize people when major policies affecting the lives of the citicenzry are riding on their future decisions. Like it or not, he has to be able to have an amiable working relationship with her.

[Dr Fate]

53. And it worked so well for us in the last 3 election cycles.

"You don't just antagonize people when major policies affecting the lives of the citicenzry are riding on their future decisions"

Er- Remember the Clinton Impeachment and the smearing of Gore? And the Repubs won too.

Finesse? Is that what the swing voters like? Most swing voters cant even spell the word.

An "amiable working relationship" with the people who said he faked his purple hearts, trash Democrats like its sport and have lied daily for 4 years??

Yes playing nice will save the day after we lose 3 more elections- THEN the Republicans will "have enough rope to hang themselves!!!"

Keep the faith baby!

[loyalsister]

56. This isn't an election anymore

Working on policy as a Senator isn't the same as running for president.
He has a job to do now.
AND, you are really only his constituent if you live in Mass. That's who hired him for this job.

[Dr Fate]

57. Was that our excuse in the days after the 2000 & 2002 elections as well?

If we had been destroying Bush's political capital from day one, we would have a new president now.

Oh thats right- "9/11 changed everything"- so we had to go along with the lying criminals. And then they kicked our asses anyway.

Gee- its going to be REALLY fun to watch DEMS when Bush decides to invade Iran or whoever.

And I aint from Mass- but unless he wants to send back the $12,000 dollars I raised for him, and wants me to do it again in 2008, I would think he better listen to me & DEMS like me-constituents or not.

[rodeodance]

61. Kerry was asking reflective reasoned questions and Condi responded

in a script type' managerial style. I watch the long exchange and wished we had had the opportunity to do such exchanges during the campaign!! ---as all could have learned a lot.

[Dr Fate]

62. I'm sure it will all turn out wonderfully. Condi will do a great job.

No point in making waves.

[LittleClarkie]

64. There's that drive-by snark I so dearly love

Got anything constructive to say dear, or are you just going to continue to march up and down the thread with your sarcasm gun.

[Dr Fate]

66. I've been attacked for being constructive as well...

...so I may as well have some fun too.

I've actually been told that that we will lose elections if we tell the truth about Republican lies & crimes.

I've also suggested new, out-of-the box ways we can get more media coverage too- but all I hear is excuses- "we cant do that because..."

I dont see what so constructive about "stay the course" myself- we lost the last 3 elections and it does not look like weve learned much.

Look- Kerry did fine, but its not enough. We need to REALLY hammer these guys or its all over.

Good night, Sweet Prince- you be nice to Condi now!!!

[livvy]

70. There's more than one way to skin a cat....

The questions he has asked and the discussions they have had are good. Every statement she is making goes on record. The more at ease she is the more likely it is that she will blow it big time, and let a bit of truth out for a change.
Just because Kerry isn't in her face doesn't mean his questions aren't quite pointed. Those who are criticizing should listen to what is actually being said.
KoKo, I'm not not speaking directly to you, but more to the serious armchair critics that have responded to your post, with the negative and critical Kerry comments.
Have a little faith, folks. Still believing here.

[CWebster]

71. It's about Kerry

He is still posturing as being strong on national security--at the expense of the truth.

And he looks very unhealthy, btw.

[Q]

75. Just more bread, circus and theater for the masses...

...but will it actually MEAN anything in the end? Of course not. So the 'difficult' and probing questions go on the 'record'. Big deal. How many Americans will get to read the record? All they know is that Democrats will join with their RWing counterparts in approving the nominations of liars and enablers of torture.

If they want to symbolically protest something...they should VOTE AGAINST these nominations and go on the record of giving more than lip service to honor and integrity.