Why is Joe Lieberman so hated?

[elshiva]

Please write details, please.

[RandomKoolzip]

1. He took a hardline PRO-war stance in the primaries, for one.

And he never misses a chance to stick his entire face into Bush's royal arse in hopes of currying a little favor (I think he actually LIKES it up there).

[wtmusic]

16. Sounds just like a Republican

when he talks about the war

[ErinGoBraghLess]

64. Joe is OK in my book

I like Joe. I think he represents that faction of the Dem party that recognizes there is not this absolute black and white divide between the two parties. We are all trying to make policy decisions that will better this country. I am a Dem, but admittedly not as hard left as some on DU. I liked Dean for his spark and take no prisioners attitude, but I really respect Joe for his statesmanship. Whereas Kerry tried to ride the wind with his various (and inconsistent) positions on the war, Joe remained firm. He also recognizes that there is a definite threat to this country from terrorists, which is largely ignored by a lot of folks here on DU. (more time is spent talking about how evil Bush is than how evil Osama is - go figure). So I respect him for his honesty and his firmness.

[wtmusic]

84. Very well then

A definite threat to this country from terrorists is "ignored by a lot of folks on DU?" How so? More time is spent talking about how evil Bush is, because ya know what? Bush has killed more people than Osama has. Go figure yourself.

Apparently you feel a threat from terrorists in one country allows us to invade another sovereign nation, in violation of the UN Charter. Hypocritically using UN security council resolutions to justify it. The first war in US history that we started.

That's inane, that's ignorant. Glad to hear that Joe's 'OK' in your book. Joe can't justify this war, and neither can you.

[ErinGoBraghLess]

85. Misunderstand

I didn't say I agree with Joe about the war. I have always thought containment was the best answer. But I have to say Joe's consistency is a lot better than Kerry's nuanced votes of yes-no-yes-maybe-no, etc. I can respect him for sticking to his guns.

And yes, as unpopular as it may sound, there is a lot more talk on DU about how evil Bush is instead of Osama. I think that terrorists are still a major threat to this country. I am NOT saying Bush has the answer. He is making things worse in the world. I just don't see many positive posts about how to address terror.

[wtmusic]

87. So being consistently wrong

is better than maybe changing your mind as facts come to light?

There is nothing "nuanced" about Kerry's position on the war, unless you buy into Bill O'Reilly/Sean Hannity/Fox news tripe. Kerry was promised by the president that he would build a true international coalition and get UN approval before attacking Iraq. He lied.

Just using the word 'terrorists' shows you've fallen victim to the Administration propaganda machine. What is a 'terrorist'? Is the Iraqi resistance made up of 'terrorists'? If North Korea attacked the US and you resisted, would you be a 'terrorist'? Are US Marines 'terrorists' for attacking Iraq? Why does Bush consistently use the word 'terror' completely at odds with the official State Dept. definition: "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience"?

In Bush admin lingo, a 'terrorist' has come to mean anyone who fights back against the US. If you want ideas on how to address it, the first place to look is why these people want to kill us (or you can just buy Bush's reason, which is that they're 'fanatics').

[meisje]

2. If you have to ask, you'll never know.

[elshiva]

13. If I don't ask I will remain ignorant.

I take back "hated" in my OP. Why is Lieberman called "Bushlite?" would have been better.
Let the record state that I don't hate him, if only because he is Jewish like me. His story is alot like my grandparents story. But that is just sentiment, a politician should be judges on his/her record not family story, as I've learned with Rice and Gonzalez.

[leesa]

38. Don't you ever listen to him?? It's perfectly plain. He adores Bush

and his eternal warmongering. He is garbage.

[Pam-Moby]

3. I do not hate Joe Lieberman

He is not my favorite person. I feel he is a nice guy, but he is to much in the middle of the road on issues for me.

[leesa]

39. He is faaaaaaar right of Atilla the Hun.

[Lenape85]

4. Lets see

He voted for the war
His soul is owned by the prison-military industrial complex
He's pro-business
He's weak on his feet
He practically let Dick Cheney win the debate

[LSdemocrat]

5. I think he's better than many on DU give him credit for, but . . .

The reason many people hate him is that he seems to wholeheartedly agree with nearly all of Bush's foreign policy agenda AND attacks Democrats who take a less neo-con militant approach.

[AG78]

6. One detail

http://www.fightingterror.org/members/index.cfm

If he signs on with the likes of these people, there's not much to like.

[LittleClarkie]

22. Not just signed on, but honorary co-chair

I see Ron Silver is on the list. Token actor? Explains what he was doing at the RNC, I suppose.

Newt Gingrich, Edwin Meese, Jack Kemp, Steve Forbes, George Shultz are the only names I recognize besides Joe and Ron.

Is Joementum their token Democrat? Or does someone see another one on that list.

[AG78]

28. Those are the only names?

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

Maybe you've read this, but if you haven't, it's fun. I swear.

Check out some of the other articles as well.

Learn their names. Memorize them. They seem to be everywhere, all the time.

And Silver is a new one to the list. I hadn't seen his name on there before I linked up to it tonight.

And I'm pretty sure Lieberman is the only Democrat. Some are neocons, who used to be Democrats, but went psycho.

[LittleClarkie]

36. Well, they say the neocon movement took the worst parts

of both the left and the right, and mushed them together. That many neocons are disgruntled former leftists.

[blondeatlast]

66. I hadn't heard that before but it's damn true.

Whoever said it first is a wise person indeed.

[JI7]

7. i don't hate him

[cliss]

8. I don't hate Joe.

I think Holy Joe is great. I've gotten my very best laughs here at the DU, eagerly clicking on the "Can you imagine Joe Lieberman said this" threads, or "Why, that Joe....fume".

Those threads were always the longest, and the funniest. Everyone was trying to outdo themselves, at Joe the Court Jester's expense.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

24. Who was it who said

that there were four words that would ensure Joe Lieberman was never going to be President?

"First Lady Hadassah Lieberman."

Funny, but true, and that's sad, too.

[baba]

25. I don't get it.

What's wrong with Hadassah Lieberman?

:shrug:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

34. Intrinsically, nothing

But, there is no way this country would ever elect a Jew, let alone an orthodox Jew with a wife named "Hadassah," President.

I am amazed that you needed this explained. It's kind of charming, actually.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

42. Jon Stewart said this-

not sure if it was tonight's episode or the one from the 18th.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

9. I don't hate him.

He actually has a very good domestic record. But I detest his foreign policy record and his never ending support for the failed Iraq War.

[leesa]

40. Did you like the part where he and Lynn Cheney made up the list of

progressive professors to be blacklisted? That was especially funny.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

45. Huh? n/t

[Erika]

10. For a Bush lite, he's not bad

No, I don't hate him but I'd never pick him for the party nomination.

[tjdee]

11. He's just so ridiculous.

I don't hate him, and he seems to have a good heart (I mean, he calls his mom every night)...

BUT.

It's so hard to explain. For me, it started the night he kissed Dick Cheney's ass in the VP debate in 2000. Disgusting.

The core of the problem with Lieberman is that he doesn't seem to get that some Republicans, including those who stole the election from him, are NOT NICE PEOPLE who want the same things he does.

I was very delighted to not vote for him in the primaries, though. I only wish I could not vote for him again!

[GRLMGC]

12. My first impression of him

was colored by my friends when he went on some sort of anti-video game crusade so I wasn't too cool with him to begin with. Then I learned about his Bushloving and his foreign policy and I disliked him even more. That being said, I don't hate him, I just prefer other Democrats.

[elshiva]

14. Again this is Not a Hate-fest

sorry again for poor phrasing. I don't want to promote hate. Sorry!

[GRLMGC]

17. I know

I'm just saying why he's not my favorite Democrat. There are some people who do hate him though so your question is legitimate

[Erika]

18. Zell Miller comes to mind

when thinking about Joe's political philosophies.

[Orangepeel]

15. people see him through a narrow lens

he is a self proclaimed "moderate" who is right of center on foreign policy issues.

He also makes speeches about family values. Although to the best of my knowledge, he's never advocated legislation restricting or censoring anything*, the family values stuff in conjunction with being openly religious lead people to assume that he is conservative on social issues.

However, he is a dyed-in-the-wool democrat on many issues. He is 100% pro-choice, has an excellent environmental record and a decent union record.


*he WAS listed as a co-founder of a supposedly non-partisan organization started by Lynn Cheney before Cheney was VP that was supposed to promote academic freedom. After Sept. 11, this organization published a list of professors supposedly saying anti-American things. Lieberman resigned from the organization and told them to stop listing him as a co-founder.

[xray s]

19. he is in the Senate because The National Review put him there

Buckley and the National Review were the ones that launched Lieberman's career in order to destroy the carrier of Lowell Weicker, a liberal Republican Senator from Connecticutt who hated Nixon (yes, their used to be such a thing!)

That alone tells you all you need to know.

[wuushew]

54. Interesting enough Weicker's pre-1990 ADA score is higher than Joe's

87 vs. 75

http://www.adaction.org/lifetimesenconnecticut.html

[saltpoint]

60. Yes. Ive begrudged Lieberman's Senate career --

-- in large part because he replaced Weicker, a more liberal and independent man by far.

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. I think he's probably a very nice guy.

Like most insurance salesmen.

I've never gotten that there is anything progressive about him. I'm not sure I'd call him Bush Lite, but the differences between him and an old fashioned Rockafeller republican are minimal, at best.

[Rowdyboy]

21. I defended Joe Lieberman for a very LONGGGGGGGGG time....

He repaid me by turning on our party, trashing our basic principles, and mocking our leaders. As a Democrat from birth, I'm ashamed of his performance during the last primary race. I can no loner say that he represents me in any way.

[Quixote1818]

29. Thank you, I was about to go kick your ass but then you surprised me.

:mad: :spank: :wtf: :beer: :thumbsup: :pals:

[Leilani]

95. That's what bothered me the most about Lieberman

In the primaries he talked up the Repubs & the war, but he was pretty harsh to some Dems, particularly Wes Clark.

I don't hate him, but I don't respect him anymore. He trashed people for his own ambitions.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

23. He's a fundamentalist suckass

He sorely lacks perspective, compassion, or the ability to see beyond his rigid, intolerant views.

Other than that, he's just nifty.

::: sarcasm :::

[Quixote1818]

26. He has love feasts with Sean Hannity! Sick, Sick, Sick! YUCK!

When the two get together on the radio they both praise one another. I mean, for Gods sake Lieberman what the hell are you doing praising Sean Hannity????? Get the fuck out of my party if you are going to be Sean Hannity's love partner.

[NYCGirl]

27. No hate, but he's merely spectacularly ineffectual. NT

[dolstein]

30. He's a deeply religious orthodox Jew and a foreign policy hawk

Three of the things that DU'ers despise most are:

1. Israel
2. Any public discussion of reglious beliefs
3. Foreign policy hawks

Lieberman's got three strikes against him. He's an orthodox Jew (and hence presumed to be the puppet of Ariel Sharon). Even worse, he speaks openly of his reglious faith. And finally, he is much more willing to support the use of American force abroad than the typical DUer (who has trouble imagining ANY circumstances where the use of force is justified).

The confluence of these three factors has generated the perfect storm of mindless hatred which simply renders many DUers incapable of speaking rationally about Lieberman, and causes many to deliberately ignore and distort his liberal voting record.

[leesa]

41. No presumption, Dolstein. He works for Israel

Too bad he doesn't just become part of the government there, like his brother.

[dolstein]

48. I ought to give a dollar to the ADL every time I saw a post like this

Unfortunately, I would probably go broke.

[Larkspur]

31. I'm one of his constituents and I despise him because

he whines when he talks

he would rather defend stock options for corrupt CEO's than defend working class people

his support for Israel borders on treason

he led the charge to get Democrats to vote for our immoral war in Iraq, a war designed to actually help Israel and corrupt corporations, like Halliburton

he has no problem demanding fealty to Israel from his fellow Democrats by passing inane resolutions defending Israel's right to humiliate the Palestinians in the name of fighting terrorism, but when an American nonviolent protester, Rachel Corrie, is murdered by IDF soldiers, Holy Joe is silent. Didn't a Jewish Rabbi named Jesus compare sanctimonious Pharisees, like Lieberman, to a brood of vipers and white tombs -- pretty on the outside but full of corruption on the inside?

[moggie12]

86. You summed it up perfectly

Sells us out to corporations & cheerleads for inane, unwinnable wars. I hope he has a strong primary challenger. He needs to go.

[Hippo_Tron]

32. Because a liberal senator could get elected from connecticut

Lieberman sounds like he's the democratic senator from Alabama, not the democratic senator from Connecticut.

[fnottr]

51. Ding Ding Ding......we have a winner

It's not that he's Zell Miller, he's actually quite in line with Progressive positions on a number of things, abortion and the economy come to mind. I do disagree with him strongly on a number of issues, most relating to forign policy, but also some other things, but overall he's still a seat on our side of the aisle, and not on the Repub's side.

However...last I checked Conn was part of New England, so why can't they have a good ol' New England liberal in that seat? Lieberman's really not much different from a moderate red state democratic senator IMHO, but he's from such a deeply blue state, and I think that's what irks people here the most about him.

[dolstein]

53. A DU-acceptable Democrat would be far from a sure thing

A left-wing Democrat would almost certainly face a strong challenge from a moderate Chris Shays style Republican, and could easily lose.

Lieberman, on the other hand, is a safe bet for reelection.

Sorry, but no Democratic senator from Alabama ever compiled the liberal voting record that Lieberman has. Stop acting foolish.

[Hippo_Tron]

91. Southern states actually used to elect economic populists

Huey Long, for example, was to the left of arguably any member of the current US Senate on economic issues. And as far as social issues go, Lieberman is socially conservative on a lot of things, much moreso than most Democrats. Granted I'll give you the fact that the various senators from Alabama have probably voted against every single piece of civil-rights related legislation there is, so Lieberman does get points there.

[leesa]

33. Because he has betrayed his country by supporting an illegal immoral war

He has sold out his country.

That, and he works with Lynn Cheney to make up lists of liberal professors to blackball and books and vidoes to ban. He's just an all-around Republican whore for Israel.

[primavera]

72. Bingo

Despite the mythology built up around democracy as a form of governance, its primary purpose is not is coming together in a quest for truth and justice. It's always been about providing a peaceful way for competing interests to resolve their differences - without killing each other. Not a bad goal, when you think about it. But the point is, democracy has always been an inherently confrontational form of governance, and it is that fact which makes it work. When one side of the debate lays down and says "fine, fine, let's make nice-nice, it's not worth arguing over" the system collapses and what you're left with is autocracy.

[Orangepeel]

96. oh, Lieberman did not try to blackball professors

He stupidly agreed to serve on the board of some crazy organization Lynn Cheney founded in 1995. Later, that crazy organization put out a list of professors to blackball.

Should he have gotten in bed with Lynn Cheney to begin with (even it it was before Dick was VP)? No. Should he have had a staff member monitoring the output of every organization he is on the board of? Of course. Should he have been even stronger in speaking out against the report? Yes.

But your post makes it sound like he wrote it himself or had it commissioned.

http://www.newhavenadvocate.com/gbase/News/content.html?oid=oid:38688

[sundog]

35. Details: Sell Out.

n/t

[cosmicdot]

37. he's a Director on the Nixon Center Board

How does a Democrat 'fit in' with this crowd? http://www.nixoncenter.org/boardac.htm


That doesn't do much to help his image issues.


His photo ops with **Bu$h, i.e., when signing bills into law ... legislation which we opposed ... doesn't help ...

Being DLC ... an orgnization which had received start-up/root money from right-wing foundations ... adds to the problem. The Fundometer at mediatransparency.org is helpful to research that type of information.


His work with Lynne Cheney ...

"The American Council of Trustees and Alumni was founded in 1995 by Lynne Cheney, the vice president's wife, and Sen. Joseph Lieberman.
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1213-05.htm

[DrWeird]

43. He blamed Marilyn Manson for the Columbine shooting.

That's totally unamerican.

[Hippo_Tron]

93. That's a good example of stupid politician talk

"Oh let me win some more soccer mom votes by criticizing Marilyn Manson".

[progressiveright]

44. right now

he is among those few democrats that haven't decided whether or not to oppose any privatization of social security

[Celeborn Skywalker]

47. Seriously?

Well, if he votes for privatization, he'll get no more respect from me.

[progressiveright]

49. yeah

reading TNR article 'Hardball 101'.

DLC and New Democrat Coalition (67 clinton democrats in the house) have pledged to fight any and all privatization of SS, Congressman Smith (leader of NDC) said 'Social Security is a safety net. That's what it's there for. It's a guaranteed benefit for a reason, and for that reason I don't support private accounts'.

The article also states that two democratic senators that have been cagey about whether or not they will support privatization are Tom Carber and Joe Lieberman.

[blondeatlast]

68. I'd love to read this. Got a link or citation?

Thanks much in advance.

[napi21]

46. Joe is hated by the Dems just as much as McCain is hated by the Pubs!

Short of Zell Miller, Joe is the closest thing to shrub supporter you will find on the Dem side of the asile.

Besides, he looks like Yoda, and sounds like he's about to break into tears every time he speaks...even when he's happy!

[dolstein]

52. Sorry, but your analogy is belied by the facts

McCain has bucked his own party and opposed Bush on several high profile issues. Lieberman has backed the president on only one high profile issue -- the war in Iraq. And its worth reminding people around here that a solid majority of Democrats in the Senate voted for the McCain-Lieberman resolution authorizing the use of force in Iraq.

Seriously, if you were actually interested in facts, you'd be hard pressed to find a single party-line vote where Lieberman has crossed the aisle to support a major Bush initiative. Certainly not his tax cuts. Not judicial nominees. Not on the 9/11 commission. Even on the faith based initiave, Lieberman ended up breaking with the administration and backing a bipartisan proposal.

[progressiveright]

55. he doesn't seem to me to be dishonest actually

He does what he thinks is right, but I disagree with much of his views as well, like the Iraq war. That's just my personal opinion from watching him talk.
He did do a lot of good things, we wouldn't have Patient's Bill of Rights without him for example, if I'm correct.

[sendero]

75. Ok....

... so how do you explain his unforgivable support for the Iraq war? I understand Bush*'s position, he is a moron with delusions of grandeur - please indulge me - just WHAT THE HELL IS LIEBERMAN THINKING?

If he is so fucking "progressive" and so willing to go against Bush*, what is his goddam glitch?

[progressiveright]

50. AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON !

[Hippo_Tron]

94. LMAO that's good

[MrSlayer]

56. Well gee...hmmm. How about supporting the Chimp and the neo-cons?

Are you serious?

[uncertainty1999]

57. I think he might have been the 1st to berate Clinton for you-know-what..

.. on the Senate floor. Correct me if I am wrong since it has been a while.

He also ran for US senate while pursuing the vice-presidency with Al Gore - talk about lacking commitment!

[Kipepeo]

58. Some Reasons

1) The illegal and immoral War and his support for it

2) His willingness to use Republican terminology (thus automatically ceding the debate) and then just in case that's not enough...to outright cede the debate by agreeing with the Republicans over the Democrats

3) He's no liberal

4) "Joe-mentum"

[saltpoint]

59. Lieberman has abandoned his earlier gods.

In his young years he left the comfortable, monied path in New England to appear in person, in the flesh, and in solidarity with the struggle for civil rights in the American South.

I have no idea in hell where THAT Joe Lieberman went to. But I miss him.

The spirit currently inhabiting the body and mind of "Joe Lieberman" is a Bush bootlicker and an impediment to reform within the Democratic Party.

I think that's the root of the negative response to Lieberman on DU and other progressive websites.

[Cheswick2.0]

81. exactly......... he is not the old liberal joe Lieberman

he wold out to big insurance and Israel long ago.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. I Don't Hate Anybody Even The Simian In Chief...

What I didn't like about Lieberman was his hard line on the Iraq War and his trashing of Wes Clark during the primaries...


The general had more charcater in his pinkie than Mr. Deferments had in his whole body....

[CWebster]

62. DLC made flesh

which presently causes the Democratic party to be toothless and irrelevant.

[charlie]

69. Yup

That and his cheery cluelessness about the malignancy of the crew he repeatedly races across the aisle to embrace.

[The Zanti Regent]

63. Joe Looneyman is a DINO

Look at how Looneyman is working with Bush to destroy Social Security!

[Garage Queen]

80. Yep, his DINO status may have something to do with that

:shrug:

For the record, I don't hate Lieberman, I just don't think he's truly a Dem.

[montana500]

65. he hung Gore out to dry in 2000.....COWARD n/m

[dansolo]

67. He is far too pro-corporate

I think that Lieberman was one of the people that blocked a lot of the reforms that could have been implemented during the time of all of the corporate scandals, when the Democrats actually were in the majority. I place a lot of the blame on Lieberman and Daschle in the fact that more wasn't done at that time.

[blondeatlast]

70. No hate, but I'll reserve my final meaningless judgment for

his stance on privatizing Social Security.

If he votes across the aisle, as he's rumored to be considering, he will become a non-person in my book.

Also, I take him to task for his excoriation of Bill Clinton over his minor affair, his call for the blacklisting of professors post 9/11, and especially for his fervent push to get Democrats to vote in favor of the Iraq invasion.

The latter is, I expect, the main reason for his derision on DU. And it's hardly undeserved.

If any Joe fan can defend the latter, I'd LOVE to bear witness.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

71. I can’t envision the Conn. electorate endorsing a vote on privatizing SS.

[RogueTrooper]

73. He said some unpleasant things about Howard Dean

that pretty much sealed is fate in the eyes of many DUers. Deaniacs, as you may have noticed, tend to get a little "rowdy" when their man is takes some flak.

:evilgrin:

Joe has a solid liberal voting record as befits a man who is a "talk right, act left" centerist. It was his support for the Iraq War that finished him off. ( people will throw in some anti-semetic nonsense to gin up this complaint but supporting a foolish war has allways been enough for me ).

[w4rma]

74. He's a backstabbing, wimpy DLC DINO who appears to have more loyalty

to Israel's Likud Party and huge multinational corporations rather than the United States of America, much less the Democratic Party.

Also, he has somehow mastered exuming wimpyness while being a warmongerer at the same time. How someone can act like such a wimp while promoting policies to kill, maim and torture so many people is beyond me.

If the Banking industry or the Likud Party want something, he can nearly always be counted on to support it.

Oh, and he whines when he talks.

[ernstbass]

76. His school vouchers and his hawkishness

[OnionPatch]

77. He obviously panders to the right

He took a strong pro-Iraq war stand and I believe he did it just to go with the flow back during the primaries when a large percentage of the population approved of the war.
That's my only reason.
By the way...I don't hate him. I just wouldn't vote for him for dogcatcher.

[cags]

78. Because Sean Hannity likes him, thats enough

[Freddie Stubbs]

79. Because he is an unapologetic moderate

Something that infuriates the far left.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

83. Is it modeate to go accross the ocean to murder people that

never did anything to this country? He is an accomplice to a huge crime. He also at the very least gives the impression he's in the pocket of the accounting industry. I'm sure there are many more things I could bring up but I won't bother. He doesn't infuriate me, but I have no use for him............

[Cheswick2.0]

82. I don't hate him, I feel sorry for him

He sold out whatever convictions he had many years ago. He played politics like all politicians do but this time he lost. He failed to see that the party was ready to abandon the DLC corporate suck up model just as he was getting so good at it.

[patcox2]

88. Because he is a schmuck and a putz.

Because he is a smarmy, mumble-mouthed, "holier than thou" moralistic dick. Because he never met a republican proposal he couldn't endorse. Because he favors censorship of art in support of his "morals" agenda. Because he has made a career out of betraying the democratic party and positioning himself as the tame, token "moral values democrat who can get along with republicans. Because he is a war-mongering fool who supports the whole neo-con agenda for the middle east.

[dhinojosa]

89. Chastized Clinton; SDI support; Homeland Security support

Ta da! Homeland Security is the most fascist idea to date.

[justy329]

90. Some blame him for Gore's lost.

His centrist (arguably center-right) views may have turned off left-wing votes to Nader.

[Hippo_Tron]

92. Gore shouldn't have picked him in that case

Gore wanted to use Lieberman's Judaism to appeal to Jewish voters in southern Florida as well as distance himself from Clinton. The second part was a dumb idea and there were far better Jewish senators than Lieberman that Gore could've used. Wellstone probably could've cancelled out the Nader effect as VP because the prospect of having him in national office would have made most progressives not even think about voting for Nader. Unfortunately Wellstone's multiple-sclorosis pretty much eliminated him from consideration.