Pat Buchanan: "Democrats need to be harder on Condi Rice.

[stray cat]

Pat Bucanan said today on MSNBC that democrats were not being whiners with Condi Rice. He said instead that they had not been anywhere near tough enough and needed to be tougher. He thought it was good they were holding up the vote to let other questioners be heard.

I disagree with and dislike Pat Buchanan on most things but he at least has never been a neocon.

[BlueEyedSon]

1. Wow. kick

[DireStrike]

2. I agree, and that makes me nervous.

Gotta keep an eye on Pat's agenda...

[robbedvoter]

6. Pat agenda is very clear: hates furriners so much, he doesn't even

want to occupy them. he is therefore anti-war - we share that in common.

[chookie]

24. Not quite

Mr Buchanan is a "paleoconservative." He believes that the United States is and must be a Republic -- not an empire. He believes we should secure our borders -- not pretend to secure them by starting foreign wars, especially against amorphous "terrierists" .

He's had a lot of valuable input regarding the Bush administration. His magazine, "American Conservative" is actually a good read and worth having a look at.

I sure don't agree with some of his positions, but he is one of the sane conservatives out there. And you know what? We will never defeat Bush until we join forces with sane conservatives and Republicans. In fact -- I have been predicting all along that it will be Republicans who finally bring him down, because at least some of the paleocons know how to fight, and are outspoken about what they see happening.

On the other hand, there is some important issues that Buchanan has analyzed that I find way off the mark. #1 That Bush is not responsible for his outrageous foreign policy; Buchanan describes him as a decent man who has been led astray by neocons. (Sorry Pat -- Bush surrounded himself with NeoCons since 1998; his tutors for the Presidency were Perle and Wolfowitz, as well as Condi.) #2 That the NeoCons were going down in the wsecond term. Sorry Pat -- wishful thinking, dear boy -- in fact, the NeoCons are still in the ascending, and all moderate elements are being purged from the government on a massive scale.

[rodeodance]

29. thanks for your good analysis of Pat

[AntiCoup2K4]

33. Ironic, isn't it?

After the 1992 GOP convention, Pat Buchanan was considered the extremist right bleeding edge of conservatism. 13 years later, he's one of the few sensible ones. Yet some in our own party think WE need to be further to the right than Pat. :scared:

[Rick Myers]

3. I hated Pat until I read his last book about Bush

He gets it ALL right!!! He sees him as a dumb monkeyboy being lead by neocon and neo fascist freaks!!!

[asjr]

8. Pat still has a following and many of them hang on his

every word. Maybe that will help. After seeing Condi in front of the committee I am more afraid than ever. She works for Bush, not the American people.

[Tigress DEM]

10. Enemy of my enemy?

[iamjoy]

4. I Can Usually Follow His Logic

(even when I disagree)
And so far, I have seen little evidence the man lacks integrity - can't imagine he would ever call a plan to rape our land a "healthy forest initiative"

That being said, I do believe he wouldn't see "The Handmaid's Tale" as a dystopia novel, he'd think Gilead wasn't so bad.

[Tigress DEM]

11. Logic is present? Definately not a Bushite n/t

[NAO]

5. Dems and progressives need to be harder on ALL of *'s appointees

The Kerik debacle was a major underrated victory and a model for activism.

The Kerik debacle embarrassed, frustrated and derailed Bush. His pick for an appointment was forced to withdraw to avoid exposure of further scandal.

This made Bush look stupid (more stupid?), incompetent, etc. It also slowed down the consolidation of his second term cabinet. I'm sure it made him angry and unfocused as well.

I think the progressive community missed what a major victory the Kerick debacle really was. If we could take that model and apply it to other Bush appointees, it could delay, derail, and minimize the effectiveness of Bush's second term.

****

Defeating Gonzales was given a modest effort, but I think it could be a lot better.

Imagine MoveOn.org ads showing the most horrific photos from Abu Ghraib, while someone reads the text of Gonzales' memos and the side of the screen shows a photo of Gonzales at the top and a picture of the memo at the bottom. THAT would really incite public outrage against Gonzales.

Get some high ranking retired military to speak out against Gonzales' dismissal of the Geneva conventions, and you could also influence those who worship the military.

You could also ask "why are our troops taking the fall for this corrupt, evil torture justifying bureaucrat? We should be supporting the troops and punishing the men in power who put them in the position to have committed these acts". "Support our troops - acquit the soldiers, convict Gonzales."

***

Condi Rice. Imagine how furious Bush would be - and how lost he would be - if somehow Condi's appointment was blocked. Here's the TV ad I envision: footage of Rice making her stupid "no one could have imagined" claim, cut to "the title of the memo was". Then the "mushroom cloud" gibber, cut to the "final no WMD" footage. Also show the OIL TANKER "Chevron Condolessa Rice" and talk about the oil industry influence on the Bush administration. Show instances of her shilling for the war, and ask how she could possibly be Secretary of State.

***

Without exception, each of Bush's picks to replace the people who have resigned in disgust from his cabinet are poor choices and are vulnerable to this type of public opinion campaign.

Even if most of them still got confirmed, Bush would have been distracted, frustrated, and angered, and those people would always be seen in a more negative (albeit realistic) light, which would further undermine the Bushies and their destructive agenda.

[Tigress DEM]

13. I like it! More INFO to the people ... boob tube babies

Need education and need to remove "I never heard about that" from their defense. (Some think it's still not defendable, and I partially agree, but think if we give those we disagree with a way to save face and come back into the light, we can get that stubborn weed, I mean shrub, out of the White House where he DOES NOT BELONG.)

[Tigress DEM]

7. Why do you disagree?

If Condi talks out of both sides of her mouth, she's (in simple terms) a liar and has impunged her own credibility and integrity.

She's nothing more than a mouthpiece for Bush propoganda and she can't even keep that straight. Why should someone like her have one of the most responsible positions in our country?

Why shouldn't all Democrats be up in arms... or are we saving our outrage for Gonzales?

If Buchanan said this in a "put down way" I guess I understand that we have to budget our moral outrage, but if even the neocons are giving up the pretense, we may have unexpected allies.

[crispini]

9. Every time I hear something that I agree with Pat Buchanan on

I get this kind of sick feeling in my stomach. Because what that means is that this admin is WORSE THAN HE IS!

[Tigress DEM]

17. Even hyenas will shie away from one of their own if its's RABID

[Donna Zen]

12. Did Pat extend his advice

to his own party? Afterall, they're in the majority. Asking Democrats is okay for Pat B, and a "must" for all Democrats, but I'm still waiting for people like Buchanan, people who voted for bush and accept the checks for shilling for the rightwing, to tell the truth. Condi is a liar and apart from understanding Caspian Sea oil contracts, a failure at her job.

Asking Democrats to stick their necks out sounds good, but hearing about some gop necks out there sound even better.

[stray cat]

15. I wished he would include the republicans but he did not.

He is always soft on the republicans and always condemns the democrats. Pat gave the republicans a free pass and did not mention them at all.

[stopbush]

19. Exactly! Why give the Rs a pass on Sleeza? If there are legitimate

questions that need to be asked they shouldn't be a matter of party affiliation.

It just shows that Pat's view of the world is smack in the middle of the R thought process.

[me b zola]

20. That was my thoughts as I listened to him

He seemed so passionate---yes, this was creepy to hear him making sense---but if he believed so deeply in what he was advocating, why not hold the repubs accountable?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Fuck Him

If he didn't like the neocons why did he do everything in his power to undermine John Kerry's candidacy up to and including embracing the Swift Boats Liar's blood libel against Kerry...


He would have liked this invasion a whole lot better if there were Jews, blacks, or gays there to be killed....

[charlie]

16. Shaddup Pat

It's your old partymates who're stuffing the cabinet with neocon apparatchiks. Get on their case once in a while. And while you're at it... DON'T VOTE FOR MORONS WHO'LL MAKE APPOINTMENTS YOU WANT DEMOCRATS TO REIN IN.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. He Had His Chance With His Voice, His Vote, And Pen To

Oppose Bush's Reelection And Chose Not To...


Why?


Because he hates gays, Jews, and blacks more than he hates the neocon agenda...

[moggie12]

21. This can't be anything but a good sign

Maybe people are finally waking up to the fact that Bush is a NUT and he and his stooges have led us into a nightmare in Iraq (that wacko Inaugural speech may have opened a lot of people's eyes -- boy that was scary stuff).

[Dinger]

22. I Saw That - It Was Really Something To See

I don't like him either, but he has a way of speaking his own mind, at least some of the time.

[KoKo]

23. Dinger....love that Johnny Cash....n/t

[Dinger]

28. Thanks KoKo; I'll ALWAYS Love Johnny Cash

I greatly regret that I never had the opportunity to see/hear him in person.
Mobius did it for me (Put it together for my sig line)

[KoKo]

30. Yep...'nuff said....n/t

[Lone_Star_Dem]

25. He's right

There, I said it, now I have to go rinse with mouthwash.

Seriously, the fact that I do agree with him more these days is either a sign that Bush is so bad even he sees it, or they are slipping the koolaid in my bottled water now. :eyes:

[Dr Fate]

26. Good old Broken Watch Pat- he's right twice a day!

n/t

[Zhade]

27. How utterly shameful that the Dems hear this from Buchanan.

Have they no sense of shame, when a guy so often so wrong gets it so right, and they don't?

[Leilani]

31. I agree with Buchanan on trade issues

He's an America-firster, & believes we're losing our middle class, & that the working poor are being hurt by low wages due to unchecked immigration.

[Andromeda]

32. It's pathetic isn't it..

that we hear this from a right-wing Republican instead of a Democrat?

I remember what it was like when we had an opposition party.

[Steely_Dan]

34. I once had a bumper sticker that read...

"Buchanan for Fuhrer"

The fact that someone like Pat Buchanan can be considered sensible on some issues tells us just how far to the right the neocons are...or how far to the left we were.

-P

[MsMagnificent]

35. And why not Republicans?

It may be a fact he's stating, but he's decidedly avoiding looking in any mirrors.

He's put up a few arguments against the neo-CONS, but if he wants his old party back he's got to fight for it! Those crazies in power are not just going to let go.
This Neo-CON Republican Party has nothing in common to the Republicans that have belonged & existed these past 150+ years.

Don't forget, the neo-CONS are mere opportunists.
Rove, Wolfowitz et al went to the Clinton administration trying to sell their PNAC

Bill was too smart to fall for it.

Not something you can say for Duh-bya.

Now the parasites have taken over the Republican party completely.
I wish Pat Good Luck... he's gonna need all he can get. Sadly, current power speaks much more loudly than old-style Republican Honor and Intrinsic Values -- which have been eaten away since the time of Reagan, if not Nixon, anyhow.

[leesa]

36. EVERYONE needs to be harder on Condi Rice. She allowed 9-11

to happen...probably helped plan it. She has lied under oathe and has lied many times in her role as "security ignorer"

[d_b]

37. When Pat starts sounding like the voice of reason...

..just wake me when this nitemare is over.