Why all this talk about "democracy" in Iraq from war opponents?

[John_H]

Why have the so-called elections in Iraq generated a bipartisan, thesaurus-exhausting orgy of lofty rhetoric about Iraqi "Democracy" even from people who opposed the war?

Have all of the people "welcoming" the elections(such as every Dem senators on the morning shows today) really bought the bridge? Do they really believe that chimp and the rest of the neocons give a shit about democracy?

I can't believe people opposed to the war are going to let chimp off the hook. They know damn well that this election is about cutting and running, about clearing the micrometer high validity-hurdle set by the U.S. media. Then the Iraqi "government," with a wink and a nod, will ask the US to leave in a timely manner, which will render harmless all of the past chaos, all of the death and suffering. Any future death, chaos, and suffering will be the Iraqi government's problem.

The media will, of course, sell the departure as mission accomplished. And it certainly will have been--after all, the companies run by the bush family's cronies will control the oil that 1300 Americans have died for.

Oh, and a new made-for-TV Democracy will have been born.

[ashmanonar]

1. made-for-tv democracy!

reminds me of an incubus song....

incubus, by the way, are AWESOME. they're more critical of bush than most POLITICIANS.

[amber dog democrat]

2. I think its due to moral cowardice

and a complete lack of conviction. And this is with benefit of doubt. AFterall legistators need to keep their jobs and collaborate to sustain the myths that got us into this mess in the first place.
I can only think this will come back to haunt us - even as the oil thrashes home to us in the VLCC and ULCC tankers. Enjoy it while you can.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

3. I can't believe people opposed to the war are going to let chimp off the

hook<<

American senators might... but Russia, Germany, France, Spain, and dozens of others may not.


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[theresistance]

4. Yeah its pretty frustrating

It had to have been part of the reason Bush "won" the election. So many people had a softly-softly, wishy washy opposition to the war, instead of coming out directly and opposing it. But don't forget, even the United Nations and the countries that opposed the war have swallowed it all down - the Security Council has already passed several resolutions virtually condoning and approving the war (supporting the puppet regime America has created and the ongoing occupation). America just seems to get its way and people have short memories etc...

[Warren Stupidity]

5. they have no intention of leaving

Iraq is the neoclown mideast base of operations. Iran and Syria are next. Whoever 'wins' the 'election' will ask our forces to stay in order to 'maintain stability'.

As for your other point, the Democrats in congress are, for the most part, spineless, gutless, connivers who rationalize their support for imperialist conquest by deluding themselves that they are smarter than the rethuglicans and aren't going to fall for the trap of opposing our aggression in Iraq.

Nor will they say anything negative as we start up with Iran or Syria.

There is in fact nothing wrong with having democracy in Iraq, heck I wouldn't mind a little back here at home. But you don't get there by invading a country, sacking its cities, killing all who oppose your behavior, and then running deliberately obscure and confusing elections under the complete control of the same armed forces that invaded the country and is busy killing the opposition.

The Democratic Leadership should be pointing our that this election is a farce and that it is already a failure. Instead they've allowed the thugs to define success as 'an iraqi somewhere on the planet voted without being shot and killed', and haven't said one word about how utterly bogus this all is.

Eight days from now our Democratic Leaders will be lining up to announce what a Great Day it is now that Iraq has democracy.

[John_H]

7. Nope. They absolutely can't wait to leave.

They're evil, to be sure, but not stupid. They know as well as if not better than we do that Iraq is a disaster, that it becomes more of a political liability every day, and that the war has already served both its purposes, which were getting chimp reelected and putting his buddies in control of a huge percentage of the world's oil. They also know that leaving will earn the media's praise for Bush the peacemaker's "ending the war."

To say that they're going to do Iran and Syria next is to buy into the laughable notion that the neocons really do want to spread democracy and security. Iraq was about electoral votes, revenge, and above all money; Syria and Iran have no upside at all.

Plus, Rove knows Iran is not doable, even if the neocons at the DOD do not.

We'll just have to see how it shakes out, I guess.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. I guess we will just have to wait and see

Have you read seymour hersch's latest article in the new yorker? It is starting to be confirmed by other sources, and his claim is that the war against Iran has in fact already started through covert operations, that the level of delusion among the neoclowns is pretty complete, and that they have no intention of backing down or changing course. Oh, and covert operations have mostly all been moved out of any organizations under congressional oversight and into the DOD under rummy where they can operate off the books and out of any control other than the administration.

If the administration were changing course it would not have promoted the neoclown hawks and sent the semi-rational moderates packing.

It isn't about democracy or wmd and never was. It is about oil and world domination. The neoclowns are playing the Big Game, going for the brass ring, they want the whole enchilada. Their fundy allies want armageddon. Nice mix.

[robbedvoter]

6. Not All Democrats. here's Clark:

ZAHN: And I'm going to let you answer your own question there briefly. Do you think all of those things will happen, yes or no?
CLARK: I think we'll -- I think we'll get a pretty good turnout in the election. I think there will be a lot violence. And I think after the election, there will still be violence.
ZAHN: That's the last time you'll ask yourself a question, General.

[booley]

8. I would like to be wrong

Intellectually I know Shrub and the neo-cons are about as in favor of true democracy as Torquemada would have supported a human rights treaty banning torture of heretics.

beleivng in democracy means conceding that somebody you don't like may get elected. That the people of a country may choose a course outsiders don't like (and as long as the elections can be trusted to be the true will of the people, that the majority does not oppress the minority... we should accept as democracy. even if we disagree. ) If the iraqis could choose whomever they wanted and determine thier own fate, it is likley they would't' choose a pro-american canidate or honor all the changes to thier government that the neo-cons have pushed through.

It's not as if the US gov has never toppled a democracy or three before.

BUT I would like to be wrong. I would like the situation in Iraq to stabilize. I would like the killing to stop.


Intellectually I know it ain't going to happen. That the war will never achive it's "stated" purpose.

But I would like to be wrong.

[leesa]

9. Most of our government approves of the illegal war in Iraq. They are

accomplices now and discovery of their "help" in a court of law could prove hazardous to their health, so to speak. They want to steal the oil.

Same with 9-11...most are accomplices to the greatest US government crime in our history. They are NOT going to spill the beans or upset the apple cart.