Why are we socially so damn primitive???

[veracity]

It's not a new query, but suddenly particularly relevant: Why has a society capable of such fantastic technological advances never moved beyond Neanderthal methods of solving problems?

Clubs have been replaced by daisy cutters, for sure... but we have not advanced a centimetr from the primitive belief that "might makes right" After the hubris of Bush's Inaugural Speech, open discussion about the morality of war and its horrific weaponry is really, really vital.

But we're not going to have that dialogue. We no longer even discuss the dubious morality of the invasion of Iraq....seems we're simply looking for the best rationale to justify the whole fiasco.

Here's a take on the whole concept, that rings a familiar bell: War is hell, but we've been systematically desensitized to its depravity'

Kind of makes sense in a world where nothing else does....

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/media__murder___american_moral.html

[amber dog democrat]

1. I wonder if the australopithocenes

asked the same questions. Collectively I think we are doomed - there are too many pathological influences at work within our culture to factor out the results of coroporate fascism and individual ignorance, apathy and stupidity.

I sometimes feel I am an engineer or a fireman on a locomotive thundering along at 60 MPH and see a train around the bend...or the target of a switch lined for a spur - going too fast to stop an maybe too fast to jump off. And in this case I can't even throw the air into the big hole.

[wgellis]

2. It's Primordial

Until we can shake off the primordial goo from whence we came, I suspect war will continue to be the end result of a lot of meaningful disagreements. To extend your rhetorical question a bit, why couldn't Bin Laden have opened discussions with the US in advance of 9/11?

[alcuno]

4. Welcome to DU. Are you suggesting that Bin Laden is of the same level

as the US government? Should we be equated with an international terrorist? Joe Biden had a great quote today. I think it was, "If we allow everything to have equal importance, then nothing is important."

[wgellis]

9. I'm Hardly Suggesting

Bin Laden is an equal or should be treated as one. What I'm pondering is his promotion of and dedication to anarchy. My pondering is/was offered in response to the question of why we still end up in wars. Is the support of anarchy a valid means of making an international point? What about defending the status quo against anarchy? Is that valid?

Gluttony is no worse (or better) sin than envy. Does all war come from one or the other?

[Gman]

14. "Should we be equated with an international terrorist?", you ask

heh, heh... YES. We are a nation with a very long history of international terrorism.

[newyawker99]

6. Hi wgellis!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[wgellis]

10. Thanks!

Nice to be welcomed!

[cosmicdot]

11. do we know if he attempted to have discussions or not?

would be told?

would the 1997 Taliban-Unocal re the Afghanistan Pipeline meeting count as an attempt at discussion? I wouldn't care for our sovereignty being abused that way ... but, still ...
OBL: is he dead or alive?
was he responsible for 911 or not?
I don't know.

how far from where the story was to where it is have we come?

not much we have to analyze with is reality-based ... so many lies being told ... our representatives and senators are lied to ... and, they're expected to make decisions affecting our destiny and future ...


there are so many unanswered questions ... too many unknowns ... yet, we're plunging forward to a tune being called the Bu$h Doctrine ... with corporate media used to help orchestrate things ...

we make an attempt to analyze things with nothing more than gut feelings vs. what is real and what is true ...


our whole destiny is riding on the lie that George Bu$h* is the legitimate president ... that really mucks things up ...


maybe if Cheney released his 'energy' task force documentation ... we might have a few more clues into our foreign policy ...

Amazing control over the whole process they have ... how many of us feel caught in a surreal nightmare ... hog-tied and gagged sitting on a train destined for a wreck in The Twilight Zone?

[annabanana]

13. The impulses that today propel us into disaster

once preserved us. When we were all tribal family groups competing for food sources, the need to objectify "the bad guys" made it possible for our tribe to survive. I fear that these impulses may be hard wired, and we have to consciously strive to overcome them.

If we are too afraid, or too lazy to use our best tool (the old noggin), we will keep repeating the same damned patterns.

[Hosnon]

15. To edit your post:

I would say most disagreements are "meaningless" not "meaningful", especially among humans regarding the big picture.

[Gman]

3. Because we got the pilgrims

and Australia got the criminals. We should have been as lucky as Australia.

[corbett]

8. Florida Used To Be A Penal Colony

I know what you mean!

[McKenzie]

5. complex question my friend. Part of the problem

is probably our materialist culture. Not the everyday buying of the necessities of life; more the greed for more and more. That ethos permeates everything and affects people's view of how they need to live their lives. Life will be that little bit better if we can just make the next big purchase...but it won't...not at all. How much is enough anyway?

All species get those attributes that ensure their survival. Once, aggression was a necessary attribute. Today it's irrelevant, or it would be if the rules of the game were not already set by others. We have compassion, love of beauty and a number of other character traits that are not necessary if one looks at how the world of commerce works. Lies, deceit and aggression could easily carry the day if one fought by the current rules.

But we have those "good" traits in abundance. My guess, and it's only based upon a gut feeling and some unstructured reading, is that materialist culture prevents us developing our non-material characteristics of love of art, compassion and so on. Our failure to be outraged by warfare is a corollary to spending too much time buying and insufficient time thinking, creating, helping and so on.

Those "good" traits are there for a very good reason; nature did not give us them by accident. My guess is they could eventually unlock the potential of the human brain, a huge part of which we don't use. It's there though so I think it represents the next, evolutionary step for mankind.

But materialist society is preventing us evolving beyond simple consumer machines into something higher than that. Let's face it, we are bipeds which is the most efficient way of getting around, we have bifocal vision etc. Physical evolution has ceased for homo sapiens. The next great leap is probably in the mind. Spending all of our lives drooling over the next new car, second home and so on isn't going to lead us anywhere except a blind alley. And we're halfway there already.

The orientals have a good take on this through the yin and yang concept. Too much emphasis on one leads to an imbalance (can't remember the word for it)We've lurched too far towards the male side of our nature. Time to accept that the masculine needs to be balanced by the feminine. Maybe then we'll evolve into a species that sees the obscenity and stupidity of warfare as an instrument of policy.

Here endeth the sermon.

[formernaderite]

7. As primitive as you think we may be...I'd rather live in North America....

..than anywhere else. My wife would second that. She still feels harassed and demeaned in meetings when she has to travel to Europe. I'm talking OPENLY demeaned with sexual innuendo you haven't heard here in at least 25 yrs. She happens to be rather large breasted, and she's 50+....so you could imagine how odd it feels, she's not exactly wearing anything remotely sexual. Not so much in Germany and Holland, but France, Spain are the worst.

[LunaC]

12. We're still a fairly young nation

And we're just acting up, rebelling and testing authority like any unruly teenager......until the adults return to teach us some sense and hand us our ass.

Also has a lot to do with the Puritanical attitude that has never been relinquished and is continually fostered and reinforced by the "Christians"

[tintin99]

16. Who are these "adults" you speak of?

The Europeans who started two world wars that cost countless lives? What can they teach us?

[LunaC]

17. The "adults" control the purse-strings. n/t