Now Playing: 'Anybody But Dean, Part 2'

[janx]

While the GOP danced, the Dems once again found themselves looking for a leader who's not from Vermont.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6857146/site/newsweek/

Jan. 31 issue - Within hours of George Bush's Inauguration, everyone was playing his assigned role. Republicans, happily united, were dancing the night away at glittering balls in downtown Washington. Democrats, meanwhile, divided into familiar warring camps: for and against Howard Dean. In Burlington, Vt., Dean and hundreds of fans gathered for an "un-Inauguration"—and in support of the former governor's quest to become the new chairman of the Democratic Party. In Georgetown that same evening, hordes of insiders partied at the stately home of Mark Penn, the Clinton family pollster, where they gripped and grinned with Bill and Hill, cheered each other up—and fretted about Dean's assault on party headquarters. "There was a ton of positive energy at the house," a guest said later, "except for the fear and loathing of Dean."

If you think you have seen this movie before—"Dean Against the Machine"—you have. Ever since the early days of the 2004 presidential campaign, the country doctor from the State of Ben & Jerry has been the agitating principal of a confused, fratricidal and essentially leaderless party. Then, as now, Dean inspired an outside-the-Beltway, Net-based crusade whose shock troops adored his social progressivism and his fearless opposition to war in Iraq. Then, as now, a party establishment—based in Congress, governors' mansions and Georgetown salons—viewed him as a loudmouthed lefty whose visibility would ruin the Democratic brand in Red States. Back then, insiders coalesced around Sen. John Kerry, who was stodgy but, Washington wise guys thought, a safe alternative. They trapped Dean in a crossfire in Iowa; his caucus-night Scream sealed his fate.

But the 477 DNC members who choose the party chair haven't settled on a leader of the 2005 version of the Anybody But Dean movement. For now, the front-running alternative is former congressman Martin Frost of Texas, a pro-labor moderate with a lifetime of traditional organizing who survived 13 terms in Dallas before the GOP redistricted him into oblivion. He's followed by Simon Rosenberg, a young Washington-based fund-raiser and strategist who claims to be as digitized and Net-friendly as Dean—and yet more popular than Dean among the bloggers, who are emerging as new grass-roots powers in the party. Pro-lifer Tim Roemer is also running.

In the meantime, with the DNC meeting approaching on Feb. 12, party insiders have been conducting an urgent, so far fruitless, search for a consensus Dean-stopper. The Clintons don't like Dean on substance or style, seeing him as too left and too loose-lipped. But they're being careful. Hillary, already eying a presidential run in 2008, doesn't want to alienate the possible winner; she's leaving DNC maneuvers to Bill, whose answer last month was to sound out current chairman Terry McAuliffe about remaining in the job. (He declined.) The Clintons are said to have encouraged a good friend, veteran organizer Harold Ickes, to enter the chairman's race, but he begged off, too. Party leaders approached former senator Bob Kerrey, but he told them he would rather keep his job as president of the New School University.

MORE AT LINK

Here we go again... ;-)

[wndycty]

1. The worst part about all of this is. . .

. . .it creates an "us vs. them" bunker mentality amongst Dr. Dean's supporters and I fear that a significant number of his supporters will not accept anyone else. I fear the civil war that will erupt if he is not named to lead the party.

[janx]

3. There's already infighting in the party (although I don't know

the extent of it and journalists like Fineman have a tendency to exaggerate).

But the rank-and-file voting members of the DNC seem pretty united on this one, from what I've heard so far. It's really turning out to be the people versus the Washington insiders.

[wndycty]

6. An us versus them. . .

. . .I'm not sure how I feel about Dean heading the party, but I am supporting him not because I believe in him, but because I fear the reaction of the Deaniacs. . .sad, but true.

[cali]

15. That's a lousy, lousy reason

to support someone. Fear is the most dangerous motivating power in life- or politics. Frankly, it says more about you than Dean or the 'Deaniacs'. Like Dean himself and most of his supporters, if he doesn't get it, we'll still be here working hard. The only difference it will make for me is that I'll not be donating to the DNC, but to DFA, at least through '06 or until I can be assured that the DNC is responsive to the grassroots. I'd also like to suggest that you support a candidate you believe in, not one you clearly don't like.

[wndycty]

25. Well my point has been proven.

"The only difference it will make for me is that I'll not be donating to the DNC, but to DFA, at least through '06 or until I can be assured that the DNC is responsive to the grassroots."

I think you proved my point. . .if Dean does not win his supporters will punish the DNC.

[cali]

26. Your point has most certainly not been proven

I won't be leaving the democratic party. I'll still be donating to dem candidates. That's what you fear? Again, LOL.

[ldf]

60. if Dean does not win his supporters will punish the DNC

and you are saying the dnc should be rewarded for what they have done in the last three elections???

i don't think so. they can either take a big breath of reality, or deal with the consequences.

you damn right. if dean is ignored, i'm out of here. and i have been a democrat all my life (first voted in 76). NEVER voted for, or even LISTENED to greens.

but i see the disastrous results of the democratic leadership. if i want to vote for republicans i will join their damn party.

and i hope EVERY dean supporter does the same.

you know, i hate nader with a passion. if it weren't for him we wouldn't be having this discussion. (NOT an attempt to thread hijack.)

but with every step to the right by the democratic leadership, the more i agree with nader's statement that there is becoming no difference between the two parties.

and the democratic leadership has left the party, NOT the other way around.

if they can't stop wallowing in republican envy, i want to see them reduced to total irrelevancy.

and i have also been a strong clinton supporter, but if they keep up this crap, i will do everything i can to help hillary become irrelevant, too.

the time for halfway measures are past. either the party can do what it should, instead of marginalize their base, or hopefully the democratic party can be replaced with something a little more reflective of the basic democratic party principles.

[wndycty]

61. So are you saying. . .

. . .that Dean is the only true Democrat. All of the other candidates for Chairman are Republicans? Is Dean the only true Democrat that is in the running?

[ldf]

75. oh please, you know very well

that there are all stripes of democrats. and a lot of them would sell us to the highest bidder.

but it's time we got back to basics, and yes, dean seems to be the only one that is willing to spend the time, energy and dare i say it, capital, to get us back to our roots. (my apologies to kucinich supporters since i haven't delved into his stands deeply.)

unless you say the direction we are currently going is fine with you.

and yes, the party returns to what it was when i signed up, or i leave it. choice, equality, fairness, separation of church and state are not negotiable stances.

[cali]

4. the worst part

is not that it creates an us vs. them mentality amongst dean supporters, but that it demonstrates the utter contempt with which the Clintons and other Washington insiders hold the grassroots. They want our money and our labour, but not out ideas or leadership. The support for Dean hardly comes merely from hardcore Deaniacs, it's widespread in the grassroots of the party, as evidenced not only by a recent straw poll of DNC members, but across the blogasphere.

[formernaderite]

17. you are exactly correct.....

the DC insiders have muddied the democratic message for long enough. I will be in shock and elated if Dean gets the position.

[MontecitoDem]

63. While I agree Dean has lots of support --

not all the grassroots are supporting him. It isn't only "Washington insiders" who think he is not right at this time.

I think his candidacy is too divisive. And I say "his candidacy" for a reason. Because he, himself is not particularly divisive, although I worry about his quick words occasionally. But the cultishness around him from some (definitely a minority of Dean supporters) - the "Dean or go Green" kind of crap - is terrible for our party. The repubs are probably laughing their asses off at us again for all this craziness.

If he gets DNC chair I will support him completely, and I bet he'll do a good job. I will support any of the candidates except Roemer. I, as a rule, don't give money to the DNC because I give what I can spare to local races instead. But this contest for DNC chair has turned into a complete sideshow. Bummer.

[patricia92243]

18. I will find it extremely hard to stay in the Democratic Party if he is not

named as Chairman. Dean is my ideal of what a Democrat should be and if the party snubs him, I'll be VERY VERY upset.

Right or wrong that is how I feel and I'm sure lots of others do too.

[Tinoire]

46. You know. It's not even that. It's not about the personality

because Dean is not my ideal Democrat but he CLEARLY had and HAS the support of the majority of people in the Democratic Party.

To deny him the chair is to deny us our rights as people to have a say in how our party is run and to whom to panders.

I'll be very very upset right along with you for that reason.

This is a battle in the fight between people and corporations for the soul of the party. I will not remain in a party that persists in siding with the corporations over the clear objections of the people.

They can't even be honest about this one! If it's truly just another fund-raising post as they keep trying to tell us (implying that we really shouldn't mind handing the reins over to the pro-corporate sell-outs) then they should count their blessings to have Dean. After all, he was the biggest money-making machine (again from PEOPLE, not PACS and corporations) in the Democratic Party.

[BlueInRed]

39. I do think there is a power struggle, but

I am a Dean supporter and I will also accept and support someone else, but it depends on who it is and what they pursue.

I want change and in particular, I want real support for local parties in purple and red states. I lived in TN a long time and one reason it has become increasingly red is the utter lack of support it receives from the national party. In states like TN and AR, the monetary support from the DNC can make a huge difference. I'm tired of seeing these states get ignored when they could make the difference in winning elections. I want us to have as good a ground game as the Republicans. I also want us to look seriously at the "Lakoff" type issues of reframing the debate.

If another candidate wins and shows he really intends to renew the grass roots AND stand up for the little guy against Republicans, I will support him. If he's more of the same as McAuliffe, I won't be happy at all. To me, it's what Dean represents more than it is about Dean personally.

[d.l.Green]

59. I don't think you can take it that literally but

I know personally that between the others and Dean, none will live up to inspiring involvement as much as him. As a Democratic committee chair I am publicly supporting the party no matter what, but the fire will not be there like it could be...

[Larkspur]

62. There won't be a civil war if Dean doesn't get the DNC Chair...

Many of us will continue NOT to donate to the DNC and instead continue to donate to DFA. The only tactic I'll used against the DNC, should Dean not win the chair, is to return DNC solicitations with $0.00 and with my own form letter -- "You do not represent my Democratic values." And I'll use the DNC enclosed envelope that they're already paid for.

That's it. No bloodshed. We'll just keep working through DFA until the meadheads, like the Clintonistas, evenutally head into oblivion due to losing elections and get replaced by DFA Democrats or pro-DFA progressives.

[CWebster]

69. Simple as that. nt

[Walt Starr]

71. The "us vs. them" atmosphere was created by the anti-Dean idiots

and as far as I'm concerned, e are embroiled in a battle where nobody but Dean is acceptable.

[NYCGirl]

2. This is unbelieveable!

Last week the search for a surefire Dean-stopper (if there is one) reached new levels, NEWSWEEK has learned, with several governors—among them Ed Rendell of Pennsylvania and Bill Richardson of New Mexico—trying to gin up a last-ditch plan: let Dean be chairman, but confine his role to pure nuts-and-bolts duties by layering him with a new "general chairman" spokesman for the party. They abandoned the idea after realizing that they didn't have the votes to change the rules—and because the person they wanted to take the new role, Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, told them she had no interest.

That left the anti-Dean forces with only one clear strategy: recycling the long list of his provocative statements. Among them: that we shouldn't judge Osama bin Laden until he has a jury trial; that America won't always have the strongest military; that "if Bill Clinton could be the first black president, I can be the first gay president." The ABD forces were also pointing reporters to an off-the-record Harvard seminar in November, at which Dean is rumored to have facetiously suggested that Democrats leave Wyoming rather than put up with anti-gay attitudes there. (A Dean spokeswoman says the governor remembers discussing the Matthew Shepherd case, but not the specific remarks about Wyoming. "In any case, his view is that the Democrats need to compete everywhere, including there.")


BTW, we heard the "first gay president" quote here today, didn't we?

[janx]

5. Yes. And today was the first I've ever heard it. n/t

[DFLforever]

24. And I've either heard or read nearly every word out of his mouth

these last 2+ years.

Makes you wonder about those opposing him.

[janx]

30. Where on earth did it come from?

Fineman doesn't say...;-)

[Tinoire]

47. Amazing

and they wonder why people are so disgusted.

[AntiCoup2K4]

7. They even have the same people back on DU stirring up the shit.

Sure, some of the DLC Interns are rookies. But some of them are returning from last season. Remember Chad Reed, son of Bruce and his buddy Marcus? From what I've seen, it's logical to conclude that one or both of them are back on board the Dean bashing train. And a lot of retired supporters of another candidate seemed to have come out of the woodwork lately too.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm?

Well yeah, but only after I'm done puking :puke:

[wndycty]

8. WOuld you please clarify your allegations. . .

. . .go ahead you imply there are some DUers here to stir things up. . .tell me more. . .this should be very interesting. Obviously if Dean does not win it is a consipiracy. . .there is no way he can lose fairly. . .right?

[janx]

12. No, wndycty, there really was some kid who was going to school

at GWU in D.C. who was pulling some "stop Dean" shenanigans around here and elsewhere. It's hilarious in hindsight, actually.

[CWebster]

70. Because it is you

Who accuse Dean of divisiveness, as opposed to Neodems formulating plans to ostricize, marginalize, demonize, plot against, introduce stalking horses, smear any challenge to their losing Insider's ruling perch.

We see what is going on - and has been going on with the Party, and Dean represents the change, the energy, the honesty, the grassroots connection that is essential to regain Party relevance. If we seem to champion Dean, it is because we recognise the hope for the party he represents as opposed to the policies and direction of those who oppose him.

What hope to the future of the party do the Neodems represent? Dean supporters rally to Dean because they want the Democratic party to have meaning and strength. That is devotion to the promise of, not opposition to, the Democratic Party.

[janx]

9. Wait a minute--that Markus kid had a sidekick here who was

Bruce Reed's son?! Are you kidding me? This was confirmed?

[DFLforever]

27. LOL.! talk about cryptic!

I've got that lad on ignore so haven't been bothered my his recent postings. Does he work on weekends too?

[Quixote1818]

76. Wow, Clinton has micromanaged this all the way down to DU people?

Give me a brake. Now I am for Dean as Party Chair but your post was so bazaar I almost fell off my chair laughing. To think the DNC or Clinton has paid someone or a few people to sit here and Dean bash is absolutely the funniest thing I have heard in a long time.

To be honest with you when I was with the Wesley Clark campaign we were told over and over and over not to say bad things about the other candidates. I mean the people from up top were serious about this. Think about it, the more you say to tear down a candidate the more resolved his supporters become. Just look at all of you Dean supporters. I don't think it's so much that you are so impressed with Dean but you feel bonded with him because you felt Dean was unfairly attacked. Now, when you think he is being attacked again your resolve for Dean grows even stronger. People who feel victimized often bond together not always seeing reality. I hope once in a while you all take a step back and at least entertain the thought that you could be wrong. I hate to inform you of this but Party Chair is really a very insignificant position. Party Chair does not set policy for the party or set the platform. It's largely a symbolic position not a leadership position. Think of Ed Galespie. Do you think he has much influence on the direction of the party? You all are making a mountain out of a mole hill position. Relax and get a grip on reality.

[Clark2008]

10. Good. I hope Hillary overplays her card, Dean still gets DNC chair

AND he remembers her trying to stop him in 2008 when she runs because she doesn't, in any stretch of the imagination, need to be the nominee.

Wes Clark or Mark Warner does.

I mean, if we want to win.

[janx]

13. Dean doesn't decide who "gets" to be the nominee.

The people are supposed to make that decision. (Theoretically, at least. A lot of people seem to enjoy screwing up the process.)

Besides, this is more D.C. gossip. Who knows how much of it is actually true?

[Clark2008]

34. My position on this comes from how Terry McAwful

sat around and expanded on what a great war hero Kerry was and ignored Clark, who, well, is a GENERAL and who WON a war with no allied casualties.

Therefore, using that logic, I'm assuming that Dean will be able to go on the teevee and talk about who he does or does not want to talk about.

[janx]

42. Dean has promised to be impartial. n/t

[Clark2008]

43. That's fine, too.

I just don't want another redux of what Terry did.

[janx]

45. After what Dean experienced and saw during the primary and

the general election, I doubt you'll have a problem (should he be elected DNC chair).

[lojasmo]

36. Terry sure messed up Gore's exploratory, IIRC. N/T

[formernaderite]

20. As someone who's not a Clark fan, I'd at least consider him if he...

..ran for a seat somewhere first, which is conceivable given the next election is four years from now. They idea that you shouldn't have to prove your worth running in election and winning before declaring yourself a presidential candidate is amusing. I'd like to see his legislative ideas, and how he holds up under the pressure from the press for more than a few months. 2008 is not the year to experiment with an unknown. I'd also like to see some Gubernatorial muscle flexed....but we have at least six months before the real candidates begin to emerge.

[autorank]

33. That's right Clark2008. Clark & Warner.

That would be awesome. Clark and Warner are both capable of real national appeal. Let's get Dean to build the party, fighting spirit, and small-doner fundraising and nominate a Clark-Warner ticket. I'm in VA and I'll guarantee you, w/Warner we win VA, easy. With Clark and anyone other than a convicted felon, we win it by 4-5%.

[Quixote1818]

11. I am a more conservative Jeffersonian Democrat but I think Dean is Just

what we need. It took me a while to come around but after seeing the gutless Democrats on the Foreign Relations committee give Rice a free ride after all the lies and crap she has pulled not to mention just being part of a failed Administration I realized we need a fighter not some fucking middle of the road Democrat who is going to roll over and let us get fucked up the ass by the Republicans again. The Republicans are just ruthless and mean and we have to fight fire with fire.

I don't think Dean would make a great Presidential Candidate because he is too much of a firecracker but for DNC Chair he is PERFECT and just what the party needs right now. It took me a while to come to this conclusion but I am 100% behind Dean for Chair now.

[candy331]

55. Democrats still their own worst enemy, Dean a firecracker so what

does that make Bush and his crowd? cannons? Get a grip until Dems stop worrying about how they are viewed by repubs ain't none of them going to win anytime soon w/wo electronic machines.

"I don't think Dean would make a great Presidential Candidate because he is too much of a firecracker but for DNC Chair he is PERFECT"

[Quixote1818]

64. In case you didn't notice

Bush didn't run an "Angry" campaign. Sure they attacked Kerry but they had fringe Veterans groups and 527's do most of the dirty work for them. In the debates the worst Bush called Kerry was a flip flopper and said he was sending the wrong message about the war. Other than that Bush was pretty low key with Hannity, Chaney, Rush and all his lynch men doing all the dirty work. Dean was personally going after Bush and you just cant do that and win elections. Sure you rile up the base but you turn the rest of the country away from your message and thats why Dean was losing to Bush by 22 points in late December. http://polysigh.blogspot.com/2004/01/there-seems-to-be-some-confusion-in.html Dean also positioned himself too far to the left offering universal health care and attacking the war when it was still very popular. Dean had a snowballs chance in hell to win in a national election but he is a great guy and 100000 times better than Bush. Still I think DNC Chair is perfect for Dean but I promise you he will never be president running an Angry campaign against a President who's popularity was over 50%.

[Larkspur]

67. Let's see, Kerry didn't go after Bush and he lost...

Guess by your logic Dems are doomed to be losers for eternity.

Dean didn't go after Bush personally, and if you think he did, I dare you to find a personal attack on Bush by Dean.

Dean's strategy was to attack Bush's and the Republican policies as immoral, and he eviscerated the Republican image of being fiscally conservative.

And Bush did not stay above the fray as you so assumed. Didn't he say in a speech to his base shortly after Kerry sowed up the nomination in March that the Democrats had taken all sorts of positions and they all seemed to come from the "liberal" senator for Massachusetts. Bush didn't name Kerry directly, but only a moron would miss the comparison.

In conclusion, Dean aggressively attacked Bush's and Neo-con Republican policies as immoral and unAmerican with the same intensity that Neo-cons attack "liberal" Democrats. I do believe that Dean would have won the contest against Bush because Dean's campaign and rhetoric were perfectly geared to poke holes in Bush's illusions of strong leadership and eviscerate the Republican illusion that they were fiscally more responsible than Democrats. Also Dean was effectively using images from our American Past that supported community over "ownership society." Kerry's misuse of his wartime service, his support for the immoral war in Iraq, along with his other Bush-lite positions helped make it easier for the bumbling Bush to win re-election.

[Quixote1818]

73. It worked real good with Dean down to Bush by 22 points in December

The reason Dean lost is because Dean was getting killed in the polls when he and Bush were put head to head. Dean just was not selling to the American people. He spoke directly to the base but beyond that Dean was dead in the water and thats why he lost. You forget that the war was still approved by most of the country then. It's time to be honest with yourself. You think they went hard after Kerry? Imagine Dean's ski trip when his back was supposedly hurt? Rove would have had a field day with Dean because he represents every stereotype their is of wimpy, angry, anti war Democrat. Get real!

He is a great guy but he simply was not marketable in a time of war. Now with the war's popularity below 50% Dean might have had a chance. Everything happened too early for Dean. Don't take it personal just think with reason and look at the reality of the situation at the time.

[CWebster]

74. It isn't as if the Democratic party was backing a candidate

opposing the war. Dean was not only running against Bush and his machine--He was running against the DLC and their machine. And Bush and the DLC were on the same side.

[KittyWampus]

14. First Off Kurtz Is A Mediawhore Who Means The Democrats NO GOOD!

Second, we are talking politics. It's actually NORMAL for there to be other candidates BESIDES Dean. Not everything is about 'stopping Dean'. It could just be that other DNC members prefer someone else for whatever reason.

Not everything is a conspiracy to 'stop Dean'.

I am sick of those who perpetually put Dean in the positon of victim... and also tired of the Mediawhores who manipulate this tendency.

[cali]

16. LOL

Of course Dean's not a victim. He was my Governor for 11 yrs., the guy is a scrapper. And recognizing what virtually everyone knows- that there's a stop Dean movement, hardly means casting him as a victim. As far as DNC members preferring someone other than Dean, all indicators, at least at this moment in time, is that DNC members prefer Dean.

[KittyWampus]

19. If Most DNC Members Want Dean Then This Is A Stupid Mediawhore

article about a FEW DNC members who want someone other than Dean.
And Dean supporters are lapping it up.

You actually negated your own comment.

Not EVERYTHING is a conspiracy about stopping Dean. It might be about getting another preferred candidate. You know, stuff like that happens DAILY in POLITICS.

And Dean most certainly IS portrayed as a victim by MANY of his supporters.

[janx]

21. Wait a minute--

I'm a Deaniac and I am not "lapping it up." Read my previous comments.

[cali]

23. Oh nonsense,

your observations and my observations are just that- biased interpretations of information. Did I say that everything was a conspiracy about stopping Dean? Certainly not. And if, as you claim, the stop Dean movement is simply about preferring another candidate, why is there such a concerted effort to recruit another candidate? BTW, you'd be a much more effective communicator if you'd tone down the use of caps. It smacks of self-righteous outrage. Most distracting.

[Cheswick2.0]

49. WTF are you talking about ?

Dean is no victim. But that doesn't mean the article doesn't contain a lot of truth. Whatever grudge you are holding you really should get over it.

[NYCGirl]

22. Kurtz is not the author...

First Off Kurtz Is A Mediawhore Who Means The Democrats NO GOOD!

The article wasn't written by Howard Kurtz (who's with the Washington Post, not Newsweek). Second, are you saying he's making this up?

Third, of course there are other candidates.

[ClarkUSA]

28. Beware Newsweek, who's managing editor is a Bush admirer/apologist

This type of writing is the type exactly meant to do what is so easy to do....heresay
reporting to divide the Party.

Divide and conquer. There is not one credible source and alot of innuendo.

Newsweek is no better than WSJ.

Beware the source.

[KittyWampus]

29. Sorry! But Then Newsweek Doesn't Do Democrats Any Favors

[ClarkUSA]

50. Yep

[Cheswick2.0]

53. Here you go Cry, read this. Is Bob Kerrey a liar?

http://www.ottumwacourier.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13785565&BRD=2575&PAG=740&dept_id=226958&rfi=6

[Cheswick2.0]

54. and more, that confirms there was the same happening during the

primaries....as if we didn't know it (since the main players have said so Including CLARK)

http://www.canonmagazine.org/fall2003/grueter_kerry.htm

Lastly, Kerrey never says so directly but makes it clear in a subtle and tactful way that my thirty minutes are up. Instead of ending it there I rush back to my final question and ask him just whom he is supporting for president. I do not expect an answer from a career politician and I do not get one either. The man is undecided. We do begin talking for another few moments. He asks me how I imagine Clark doing in New Hampshire. He responds by insisting that the field will be winnowed down to only two real contenders after NH. He goes on for a little bit; his analysis is shrewd, quick and penetrating. I contradict him for the sake of argument. I then ask him if he thinks Clark, John Kerry and some of the others will team up in the crunch if it looks as though Dean is about to get the nomination. He answers with a definitive yes, as if he has inside information that confirms this Stop Dean plan in the works. And then I'm struck with that odd sensation which tells one that things are wrapping up. And then I notice that it is 5:35 and, before I know it, we are saying good-bye to one another. “Bye.”

[Cheswick2.0]

48. Several potential candidates said they would not run because

they did not want to be part of some Stop Dean effort. Are they liars? What's in it for you to deny reality?

[janx]

52. I don't trust this kind of gossip, personally.

There are those who don't want Dean anywhere near the position, sure, but this sounds like the same D.C. gossip Dean warned us about when he decided to run.

Edit: He referred to it as Republican/media gossip, I believe.

[paulk]

31. c'mon - Howard Fineman?

media whore of the year award winner?

this guy's job is to spread shit and divide the Democratic Party.

[janx]

35. YEP!

Apparently he thinks that we'll fall for his sourceless gossip again.

[zulchzulu]

32. Yawn #5,320: "They trapped Dean in a crossfire in Iowa"

Geez...can we just admit that Dean blew it all by himself (with the added "skills" of Joe Trippi not even returning his phone calls from his little warm paranoia-fueled cabin in Burlington) on his own in Iowa. This shit is nauseating.

Let Dean run now for the DNC Chair position now. Like Dean even said on George StayOnTopOfThis's show today, it's not a policy-making position...it's a fundraising, heavily travelling to rubber chicken dinner position...over and over...money, money, money...

As a person who goes to DFA meetings and whatnot, I think he'd be better suited at focusing all his efforts on DFA and maybe run again in 2008 if he ditches the Trippi "Machine"...not sure where that would go at this point...2008 is a million years away politically.

But as for Iowa, Dean did plenty in Iowa to turn his farm tractor into the ditch all by himself. Let's stop the freaking pity party.

[Capn Sunshine]

37. We could get over it if it were true

But why it's so important to so many folks to say something never happened that isn't important to the future of the party, I'll never know.

You're on the right track, working with DFA. Let's let go of the rest of the baggage.

I'll admit we screwed up in Iowa, because there's plenty of blame to go around. But somebody cut the brake lines to cause that tractor to go into the ditch.

It might have ended up there anyway, but some types just had to make sure.

But , eh, water ubnder the bridge. I'll tell you one thing; if Howard Dean hadn't declared his interest in the DNC chairmanship I doubt anyone would be talking about it at all, except to hold the door for McAuliffe.

[John_H]

38. I get it! We must believe everything said by men named Howard!

Cool. Howard Dean and Howard Fineman. I just saw that movie about Howard Hughes. Believed the whole thing. When is the next Kurtz live chat? Howards rule!

Before now I didn't know when to believe Howard Fineman 100% and when to discount what he writes as classic mediawhore lies.

Wait. Hold on a cotton pickin' second!What about when Fineman shills shamelessly for chimp? Do I have to believe him then? Or just when he confirms DU conspiracy theories against the other Howard?

[dsc]

41. Where did the quotes from Dean come from?

If they aren't being pushed by his opponents. One was at a private, off the record symposium, one was literally not covered during the campaign, and one was public record. Unless Feinman went to pretty amazing lengths to make this story up it has to have a good amount of truth to it.

[NYCGirl]

51. Personally, and I know I'll probably get flamed for it, but I like

Howard Fineman. Sometimes I agree with what he writes, and sometimes I don't. But I don't have to agree 100% of the time to admire someone. Same thing for Maureen Dowd, even for John McLaughlin. I've seldom agreed with anything he says, but I admire the old paleocon.

Case in point, this Fineman article:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6813945/
Good stuff.

P.S. You forgot Howard Stern.
:evilgrin:

[FrenchieCat]

40. I don't believe SHIT that these presstitutes write anymore....

I see how they manipulated us throughout the Clinton impeachment, the 2000 election theft, the 9/11 "everything has changed" patriotistic tragedy, The Iraq War, the last primaries, and the general election.

I'll be damned if I didn't learn anything from all of that....like THEY MAKE UP MOST OF THE SHIT THAT THEY WRITE.

I don't even read the garbage they put out.....why should I soil my mind with a lot of bullshit?

[Stinky The Clown]

44. I put no credence whatever in this sort of blather

I don't give a rat's ass what the DC cognoscenti think about who should be the chair of our party. Indeed, if anything, who ever *they* think it ought to be ought not to be.

The "press" killed Dr. Dean in the primaries just like they killed Clark. They picked Edwards and they picked Kerry. This shit has to stop. As Democrats it is **we** who should be picking our leaders. Ever since I heard Dr. Dean - for his own reasons, not for my wishes or the wishes of the "press" - decided he wanted to be considered for DNC chair, I have been a happy camper. He is the right man at the right time.

And I don't give two shits what the "other" Howards say ... the Howards like Kurtz and Fineman. Fuck them!

[candy331]

56. Dean needs to let the Democrats simmer in their own juice until

they are fully done and then we can get some real change going, especially after the Repubs have f----- up the entire world. Just how great the loss will be in 06 and 08 for the Dems is being weighed out now.

[Geek_Girl]

57. If the Clintons were smart

They'd whole heartedly endorse Dean. I don't see how Dean could hurt them logistically. If their worried about the perception of Dean being too liberal in the media, their worrying about nothing. No one in "Middle America" that I know gives a rat's ass weather Dean becomes DNC chair. But I know that the democratic base cares and at this point the Clintons need to start thinking about pandering to the democratic base, if Hillary wants a shot at the White House.

[PurityOfEssence]

58. You'll also find a lot of people like me, against Dean then, but not now

Some of my ire has mellowed, and some of my issues simply aren't applicable when judging a party chief. It's a vastly different job, and his talents are well suited to it.

I'm still irked by some things he did during the primary season, and I still think he's enough of a loose cannon and hothead to cause trouble, but he would be a good person for this job. Remember: the guy's no liberal; he was one of the most conservative of the primary candidates. I don't say that as an insult, I say it as a reminder that he's not the Bolshevik weirdo he's been painted to be, and the reality of that will come out with time, especially in a prominent position like this. That is a good thing, because he's a scrappy fighter, and yet can't be dismissed as "fringe".

It's also a very unsubtle hoisting of the colors: we mean to fight. That's something the dispirited left needs to see right now.

[divineorder]

66. One frame we need to lose

Is the notion of Dean being "hothead". Remember Dean was a practicing physician for nearly 20 years and ran Vermont (a face-to-face kind of political place) for 10 years. Were he really the kind of hothead that he was portrayed by the MSM, he would have either lost his license or been sued for malpractice, lost his practice or been defeated by now. He left politics-he didn't lose. He let his medical license lapse because being governor took up too much time for him to stay current. And if there was a too-impulsive problem, we would have seen at least one malpractice suit come up by now.

Dean is as impulsive as Truman.

For DNC Chair, why a "stop Dean" movement has arisen. For years, most of the money and power in the DNC has gone to the Presidential level. State parties, let alone local parties have struggled to stay afloat, let alone be competitive. Dean promises to change that equation so money and the power it contains gets distributed more widely. This distribution means less concentrated money for consultants and other high-dollar people to piss away and pad their resume with.

The DLC hates the regular Democrat who wants social and financial equality. Look at who funds them: the same slimeballs that fund the Mercatus Institute. The current structure keeps national Dems dependent upon them and their corporate donors. And their corporate donors (think Koch-a Bushie inlaw like Shriver is an inlaw to the Kennedys) like a weak national party beholden to them. Should the grassroots get real power, the national Dems may actually get a spine or be replaced by those who do, and the corporate donors no longer have a compliant opposition to go along with the party they really support.

[killbotfactory]

65. I guess they want to destroy the party in order to save it

What's so scary about Dean, anyway? Oh yeah, he's not a sellout. Burn the witch!

[CWebster]

68. The Clintons would rather destroy the Party

and everything it represents, rather than sacrifice their own political ambitions.

The Democratic party is NOT the Clintons personal vehicle for power and ego at the expense of all else and Dean represents the force on the horizon that threatens to topple their dominance.

[Walt Starr]

72. Here we go again, NOBODY BUT DEAN!!!!!

And I'm sticking to this one 100%. Anybody but Dean gets teh DNC chair, I'm gone for one, and I hope the Good Doctor has the good sense to form a third party if he's dissed again because I'd sure as hell join it!