Serious question for you

[RaulVB]

Why is it good to have Senators on the "Democratic Party" that ALWAYS side themselves with the Republicans?

How is that "GOOD", necessary or RELEVANT, POLITICALLY?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Serious question for you. Name a Dem senator who ALWAYS sides with

Repubs, but for Zell Miller who is gone now.

[RaulVB]

3. Lieberman, Bayh...

More?

[cestpaspossible]

8. I guess you didn't watch Bayh on the Senate floor today.

He is voting NO on the Rice confirmation.

[RaulVB]

11. Is the FIRST TIME in a long time that Bayh disagrees with Republicans

The first time, I've looked at Bayh's record

[DrGonzoLives]

24. Bayh's record

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Evan_Bayh.htm

Voted down a criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during another crime.
Voted to allow abortions on foreign military bases.
Voted to add sexual orientation to hate crimes.
Voted down increasing penalties for drug offenders.
Voted to spend $400 billion+ of the tax cut on education.
Opposes Bush's voucher proposal (rated 91% by the NEA).
Voted down drilling in ANWR.
Voted down ending discussion on raising CAFE standards.
Voted down banning lawsuits on gun manufacturers.
Voted down ending Clinton's ergonomic rules.

And there's plenty more. No, he's not ideal, but to say he's 100% behind Bush is just ridiculous - at most, 50%, which, yeah, sucks.

If you're going to criticize someone, criticize them right.

You can find stuff for Libermann at the same site.

[RaulVB]

29. The American people DOES NOT READ SENATE RECORDS

WOW, 50% percent is "not that bad"...your standards are just "great"

G'day

[DrGonzoLives]

36. Hmmm, seems I didn't say that

Those are NOT my standards, thanks, though, for creating plenty of strawmen in this thread. It's very entertaining.

I was taking issue with your "they vote 100% with Republicans" diatribe, which is just idiotic.

And it's "American people do not," not "does not."

[RaulVB]

42. Wow, now we know you can write and read (n/t)

[DrGonzoLives]

50. I guess I should give up hope

that you will admit you're wrong. After all, you're always right, and those of us who disagree are obviously either idiots or Republicans in disguise.

Yeah, I can read and write. Evidently you can't.

[rodeodance]

78. thanks for the record

[newsguyatl]

13. ok, so he acted like a democrat

for the FIRST time in his career.

he only voted that way to appease the base -- looking for a presidential run in 08

[cestpaspossible]

58. I'm no fan of Bayh's but we must give credit where credit is due. nt

[DrGonzoLives]

9. Try again

I'm no fan of either, but let's be honest with ourselves when we answer nsma's question, hmmmm?

Besides, Bayh already said on the floor he won't vote for Rice, and he's a big supporter of the war in Iraq.

[RaulVB]

16. "He is a BIG SUPPORTER of the war on Iraq"

Thanks, you've made my point.

[DrGonzoLives]

27. Supporting the war in Iraq

now means being a 100% supporter of the President? Try again.

[RaulVB]

32. If you support a CRIMINAL WAR OF AGGRESSION, YES

What do you think?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. You need to go check Lieberman's voting record

even in the last 3 years, it is more liberal than 90% of Repubs...as is Bayh even though I personally don't care for either

[RaulVB]

19. His PUBLIC STATEMENTS ARE THE KEY HERE

As you know, American people DOESN'T READ SENATE RECORDS.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. How Can Lieberman And Bayh Have ADA Scores > 75%

and side with the Republicans all the time?

http://www.adaction.org/sen.htm

[RaulVB]

21. American people doesn't read Senate records

Shall I remind you of the LIES TOLD about Kerry and his Senate record?

[cestpaspossible]

59. So... facts don't matter? only lies?

:wtf:

[RaulVB]

61. Well, look at what is broadcasted in the right wing controlled media!

You tell me!

[cestpaspossible]

62. So your answer is... YES?? You respect lies more than truth?

WTF are you talking about?


I'm asking you, politely, and I would respectfully request an answer, not a rhetorical question in response:

Which matters more, the reality of someone's record, or the lies that are told about it?

[RaulVB]

63. No, but you don't seem to "get it"

The "truth" is not broadcasted any more. It is IRRELEVANT for the media that supports this "government."

[cestpaspossible]

80. I GET IT - you don't want a respectful, honest discussion.

You started by attacking Democrats who disagreed with you on particular issues by falsely claiming they ALWAYS vote with the Republicans. When confronted with the fact that your claims are false, instead of admitting that you were wrong, you said that the facts didn't matter because of the media.

Personally I am more interested in reality than the lies broadcast by the right and their lackey media. Apparently you disagree.

[Guaranteed]

7. NSMA, I hope you saw that disgusting speech she made.

Did you?

The bootlicking... it made me nauseous.

Man, we've had enough of this shit.

She has to go, Lieberman has to go. At the very least.

[DrGonzoLives]

12. Who is this?

n/t

[Guaranteed]

14. Feinstein? nt

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. Pick your battles. I say Repubs have to go then this won't be an issue

[Guaranteed]

22. How are we going to get rid of them if our own Senators

won't stand up for what's right?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. How are we going to get rid of them if we are getting rid of our senators?

Seems a bit backward.

[DrGonzoLives]

28. Well, obviously

if we do that, then, um, everything magically gets better. Trust them!

[Guaranteed]

33. So you honestly don't mind it when our Senators support

the Bush administration's ridiculous foreign policy? That's just alright with you?

[DrGonzoLives]

38. Oh, yeah, that's exactly what I mean

You and Raul are fantastic at putting words in people's mouths. Keep up the good work.

Yeah, I mind it, but I prefer to look at the sum of the whole, not just one part. And I have yet to hear ANY OF YOU explain to me how sending Democrats currently in the Senate down in defeat will help us win. Care to give it a try?

[Guaranteed]

45. Yes- cohesiveness of message.

To win, we have to win our integrity back. When the American people look at Dems, they have to be able to say, "The Dems stand for THIS- and, clearly, I can trust them, because they don't have sissies in their party backing down on every single vote, it seems, and cowtowing to the Bush administration. They look like they actually BELIEVE what they're saying. And, they have courage- I like courage. Wow- that's refreshing! They could even defend us against terrorists. Maybe I'll vote for them!"

"I CAN TRUST THEM."

[DrGonzoLives]

You raise a good point

and I'll not debate it, because cohesiveness is a good thing. What I'm getting tired of is people assuming that because a Democrat votes with the GOP and few (yes, important) issues, that they are 100% Republican.

Thing is, it's all well and good to say let's just beat these guys in the primaries, and we'll get someone who wins - that's not always going to happen, and if that's our only attitude, we're going to find ourselves very quickly where the Republicans were in the 1930's - not just a minority, but barely relevant.

[Guaranteed]

60. BTW, I liked what I saw today from the Dems,

with only a couple of exceptions.

I think they're getting better, at least many of them.

[RaulVB]

56. Correct, great analysis (n/t)

[RaulVB]

48. Paranoia is not good (n/t)

[DrGonzoLives]

52. Paranoia?

Where is that evident in my post? Do you just like typing random words, or what?

[Guaranteed]

30. By replacing our Senators with new, better Senators,

with leadership skill and a head on their shoulders, maybe throw in a bit of COURAGE, not so much CORRUPTION....uhhhh...

Bottom line is that we have to OPPOSE them to get rid of them. And you're defending those who refuse to oppose them!!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

35. No..you are going after our own

and pretending that help us when it helps them. I am not fond of Feinstein and think we could do better, but I will worry about getting rid of Rick Santorum LONG before I worry about getting rid of Feinstein.

[Guaranteed]

39. The cowardly Dems are helping them...not me!

Feinstein is standing up there and saying that the Bush administration is right!

You think THAT is going to help us??

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

40. Do you think her being replaced with a Repub will help us?

[Guaranteed]

47. No, running another Democrat against her and taking over her seat

will help us.

[RaulVB]

49. Nothing wrong with it, I would guess (n/t)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

53. Fine...do it

[Guaranteed]

55. If a solid Democrat (I'm just going to throw Martin Sheen out there)

ran against her in the primaries, would you support him/her over Feinstein?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

65. depends on who it is and what they bring to the party

If I think they can win statewide office then definitely.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

70. You Think Martin Sheen Can Beat Feinstein....

Why not throw in Barbara Streisand or Rob Reiner....


By the way Dianne Feinstein has an ADA rating of 90%....


Blue folks in Mississippi would give their right nut to have a senator like her....

[justiceischeap]

2. IMO

It's not. The system of checks and balances are being blurred. Before long, there will be none and whoever has the power will DICTATE the rules of the game. The Constitution is about as useful as a used piece of toilet paper at this point.

[Sparkle]

4. We don't have a senator that's like that. Do we?

If so, who? It is okay, to vote with republicans, imo. And vice versa.

[RaulVB]

6. Why is "OK" to vote with Republicans?

Aren't DEMOCRATS THE OPPOSITION?

[Guaranteed]

10. It's NOT. THESE ARE FASCIST POLICIES.

NOT. OKAY.

It's ESPECIALLY not "okay" to AGREE with them in virtually EVERY respect, as Feinstein just did.

[Sparkle]

76. True, they are the opposition.

But sometimes it should be okay to vote with the republicans...as long as it's the right thing to do. I would say that if the repukes were the opposition.

[intheflow]

5. It's the "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't" mentality

I think people are so afraid of losing any Dem seats they keep electing Republicrats who call themselves Dems. Democratic party is also afraid of looking wishy-washy and divided if other real challengers to seated Dems arise within their own party. And of course the 2-party monopoly virtually guarantees no third party candidates will rise to that kind of national power. :(

[NewYorkerfromMass]

20. Serious question for you

Do you really think you will get all of your allies to agree with you on each and every issue 100% of the time?
Do you really expect all politicians to be as good and pure of heart as you are?

[RaulVB]

23. I do appreciate sarcasm

Thanks for your "informed" reply.

Acting like the "opposition party" will be a good change in American politics

G'day

[DrGonzoLives]

31. Answer the question

n/t

[RaulVB]

34. No (n/t)

[DrGonzoLives]

41. Don't have an answer, I see

Figures.

[RaulVB]

43. The answer is "NO" (n/t)

[meganmonkey]

37. LOL

Which is worse, sarcasm, or "overuse" of "quotation marks" ??

:)

[Guaranteed]

26. I expect a good Democrat to disagree and stand up against

fascist policies. It's not too much to ask.

God DAMN.

"Hey, so they voted with Hitler sometimes. You can't expect them to vote with you on EVERY issue, can you?"

And, yes, I know I'm exaggerating. Sort of.

[RaulVB]

51. For some people HERE, that's "way too much," I guess (n/t)

[scarletwoman]

66. "God DAMN" is RIGHT!!!!

I'm with you on this -- thank you and well-said:

"Hey, so they voted with Hitler sometimes. You can't expect them to vote with you on EVERY issue, can you?"

ayyup...

sw

[fooj]

44. Raul- help!! Where can I get the 2000 Election totals for florida?

The final tabulation!

[RaulVB]

46. I'll look into it (n/t)

[fooj]

54. Thanks! you rock...I'm arguing with my dad about the results. Ugh!

I told him that the final total showed Gore the winner!

[dsc]

57. In a closely divided body

they vote for the leadership. Thus they are one vote closer to a Chairman Kennedy, Chairwoman Boxer, etc. To be honest the real hard corps Republican clones are nearly all gone. The only two left are the Nelsons. And the Florida Nelson isn't all that bad.

[Hippo_Tron]

64. Do you UNDERSTAND how congress works?

If we controlled the House, Nancy Pelosi could snap her fingers and deny a floor vote on ANY piece of legislation opposed by the administration. If we controlled the Senate, Harry Reid could do the same to a slightly lesser extent. Having a majority in congress makes a HUGE difference, because we then have the ability to control the mechanics and in particular the committees where all of the finer points of the legislation are worked out. If we have a few centrists or hell even DINOs (so long as they stay loyal to the party caucus), it's still worth it because having a majority in congress gives the party leaders a HUGE amount of power AND almost as important, takes that power away from * and the fascists.

[RaulVB]

67. Do you understand HOW REALITY WORKS?

Apparently no.

[Hippo_Tron]

71. I guess I don't, explain to me how reality works...

[NewYorkerfromMass]

72. Good question.

I know I do.

[RaulVB]

73. Good, you answer that then (n/t)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

74. I see you were asked first

in post 71. So please teach us.

[RaulVB]

75. You jumped on that. Waiting for your "lesson" (n/t)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

77. Nope.

A lot more people are begging you for answers then me- so I suggest you just start a new post with your insights fully explained.

[RaulVB]

79. Nope, thanks though!

Guys like you know it all already!

Is not necessary to "educate" a bunch of informed and practical people, I can tell that much by checking the quality of the posting on this tread!

Regards

[DemocratSinceBirth]

68. Your Premise Is Incorrect

If you can show me the voting record of one Democratic senator who votes with Bush more than one third of the time I'll retract my comments....

[RaulVB]

69. Keep your comments. Not trying to "convince you" (n/t)

[cestpaspossible]

81. Your argument is unconvincing cuz it's based on false premises. nt