The Purge Mentality Is Self Defeating...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I am a Florida voter... I have pulled the lever for a Democrat without fail or exception since casting my first vote for Jimmy Carter in 76...


My senator Bill Nelson who I like and respect is way to the right of me on many issues but he serves in a nominally red state and doesn't have the luxury of strictly adhering to the DU line... He voted for Dr. Rice's confirmation and will most likely vote for Alberto Gonzalez's nomination to placate the sizable Hispanic voting base in Florida... I think both candidates lack the judgment, wisdom, and independent thinking to qualify for the office they aspire to and would vote against them but I don't have to face the Florida voters in two years.


As much as I like Bill Nelson I would prefer to be represented by a more liberal senator but I have to face the fact that Bill Nelson is one of the few Florida Democrats who can win a statewide race...

I am not willing to cast my senator to the lions because of a couple of errant votes and bring the Republicans ever closer to a filibuster proof majority...

I will not let the perfect be the enemy of the good...

[Walt Starr]

1. I will not let the piss poor

be the enemy of whats right.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. I Think We Should Purge The Thirty Two Senators Who Voted For Rice....

eom

[Walt Starr]

6. I think we should put the 32 Senators on notice

and continue watching performance. those who have proven to be DINO's in the past, such as Lieberman, should be purged. Those who have had poorer record than others should be purged if they continue in the same vein as they have lately.

[ElectroPrincess]

31. It's a very sad fact of human nature ... the vast majority of people

will show moral courage ONLY when their personal ass is figuratively in a sling. Just like pre- Nazi Germany, "Oh well, those in authority are not coming after me and mine personally so I won't rock the boat."

Here's to those who deviate from the "let's kiss ass to survive" norm! <eg>

Hint = few to none of our "so called" representatives fit this mold, i.e., being willing to risk one's career prospects for the sake of those who they serve.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. If They Risk Their Career And A Pug Gets Their Seat I Don't See How We

Can Benefit...

[ElectroPrincess]

38. If you "kiss ass" right out of the gate like Obama is doing ...

Well, then he's already half way to losing his soul (democratic beliefs). I wish both he and Hillary kindly put themselves (and us) out of misery and proclaim that they're republicans. Just a little glimmer of TRUTH would be appreciated.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. If You Think Barak Obama Is A Republican There's No Hope For Us

eom

[ElectroPrincess]

42. Yes, I believe both him and Hillary Clinton to be DINO

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. Maybe They Should Join The Republicans

I am sure the Pugs would love a rising star like Obama...


Let's throw in Dianne Feinstein, Chuck Schumer,Ron Wyden and John Corzine who all voted for Rice...


Now we are down to 39 Senators... The Pugs have a filibuster proof majority....


It's party time...

Somewhere out there Karl Rove is orgasmic...

[ElectroPrincess]

47. I agree - It's going to get "a whole lot worse" before people

of the democratic persuasion choose to grow a backbone.

[Bluebear]

2. Fair enough but will you call him to exercise your opinion?

I understand about the purge mentality, but as another poster said it is not the time to be quiet. We need to let them know how at least this part of their constituency feels.

[KissMeKate]

4. the shut up and sit down mentality is just as self defeating.

in case you havent noticed, we have been losing elections.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. That's Not What I Am Advocating...

Maybe we are losing elections because folks don't like the dogfood we are selling them...

[KissMeKate]

8. youre right-

we have been selling them dogfood- now its time to seel them the real meat and potatoes we stand up for in our party platform, instead of mealy mouthed equivocating.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. It's In Our Party Platform To Oppose Cabinet Nominess...

eom

[KissMeKate]

16. it is?

if it is, thats a little strange, but ok, I accept that. They had a duty to oppose rice.

[martymar64]

13. OR. . .

Maybe we are losing because the voter is deprived of any real choice. If the vote is far-right vs. center right, that leaves everyone else with nothing but to hold their noses when they vote or to not vote at all. If we stopped being the "Me Too" chorus to the repubs and actually stood up for our principles, we would see more wins in our column. Apeasement never works, as Neville Chamberlain.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Did We Lose All Four Open Senate Seats In The South Because Our

Candidates Were Too Conservative?

[KissMeKate]

20. we lost because of the "D" beside their name

that simple. southerners have equated their identities as southerners with voting republican. ( a majority at least.)

[martymar64]

24. I"m in WA State. I can't answer regarding the South

However in Montana they have a new Dem governor because he wasn't toeing the DLC line. Go along to get along never works. If we did that up here in the Northwest, Dino Rossi would be governor instead of Christine Gregoire. What would you have done? Told her to concede before all the votes were counted? Sometimes the fight is brought to you, whether you like it or not.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. I Don't Know What In My Thread Suggests I Would Let Something Be Stolen

From Me?

[KissMeKate]

28. political ground would be stolen with your approach

when one side fights to win, and the other side fights to comproimise, the side that fights to win, wins.

[Coastie for Truth]

10. Maybe we have been losing elections

because we have been driving off every potential voter who is not in 100% agreement with us on 100% of the issues.

I have a very good friend - hard line leftie -- been to the Supreme Court on "1983" issues, been to his state's Supreme Court on "DNA" and "Actually Innocent" death penalty appeals, worked with Barry Scheck and Alan Dershowitz on death penalty cases, former Law School Dean, been on the ACLU state and national boards.

Only problem - while he is "pro choice" as a matter of law (i.e., he supports Roe v. Wade) - he is pro-life religiously and ethically.

Is he a "Democrat"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. The Problem In A Nutshell....

Folks on the left only talk to other folks on the left and get their own views shouted back at them and therefore think everybody thinks like them...

Same thing for folks on the right...


They need to get out more....


For every person who thinks Bush is the anti-Christ there's another person who thinks he's the Messiah....

[Finding Rawls]

18. Not exactly

"For every person who thinks Bush is the anti-Christ there's another person who thinks he's the Messiah...."

No, there are 1.1 people who think he's the messiah

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. I'll Bet Most Folks On This Board Never Talk To A Republican

Message, folks , they are out there and in great numbers... I work with them every day.... I see their cute little Bush-Cheney and W bumper stickers all over the parking lots of metropolitan Orlando....

[KissMeKate]

22. they need to come to us, we give an inch,

they will take a mile. they have repeatedly.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Why Should They Come To Us...

We are a minority...



Oh, and before you answer I'm not suggesting we go to them....

[KissMeKate]

35. we have different ideas of why they are in the majority

I think they are in the majority because we have not been very clear about the differences between the two parties.

I think they would not be in the majority if we gave the voters more choice and a clearer one.

[ElectroPrincess]

37. Right Wing, Bush-Cheney loving Republicans?

Hell, I live among them, work with them ... many are my kin. Oh yeah, it's a real freak show in rural Virginia. For example, within two miles of my home is a driveway sporting "lawn jockey." Yah, you know what? I kid you not. Don't even get me started about all the over sized picky up trucks with bumper stickers of the "stars and bars." :P

But when I go to my Catholic Church the Sunday before the Presidential election, I review a convoluted letter by a right wing activist bishop who, in essence, is telling me that I (a practicing Catholic) will "burn in hell" if I don't vote for George Bush.

Yes - that "God Fearing" George Bush, a man and his family who rarely attend church services. That makes no sense what so ever. Well, second to the fact that right wing religious nuts (of all stripes) believe that THEY can LEGISLATE MORALITY. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus would prefer that his children use their free will to arrive at the right decision NOT to have morality beat into them via intrusive laws?

[Goddess Nephthis]

39. Ain't That the Truth!

I live in Texas. In a small town in Texas. I can go for days with out speaking to a single Democrat where I work.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. That Must Be Sad....

eom

[Goddess Nephthis]

45. Too Top It Off,

I am also gay. I really need to get out of here.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. A Gay Female In Texas...

I feel ya ......

[Goddess Nephthis]

49. I Am A Firearms Instructor...

at a private range. All day long, these Alpha Male (in their own minds) types come in here and flirt up a storm. They think I am an Ann Coulter type because of the gun handling. I could puke.

[FrenchieCat]

44. My husband is damn near a Republican.....

and I talk to him everyday......and so are many of my accounting clients (self employed folks running small businesses). My husband is socially and fiscally conservative... but only mildly so.

The Clients are what one calls Fiscal conservative Republicans, i.e., they are greedy (if you ask me)and have bought into the idea that most Democrats are of the "tax and spend" variety. I point out that Clinton was not a "tax and spend" Democrat....but then they give his Republican congress the credit for his policies.

I talk to them about political issues quite often....and they always start to agree with what is wrong with Bush, but disliked the alternative(Kerry) to replacing him. Many, in fact, have admitted to voting for Bush....specifically because they felt that Kerry would be worse. They liked General Clark....but most went back to Bush when Clark was eliminated in the primary. They saw him as the only one that could truly repair what Bush did in Iraq and foreign policy...although knew very little of Clark's economic plan...but agreed that the deficit has to be brought down.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

48. There's Also A Lot Of Poor Republicans

who vote against their own economic self interest because they like the Republican's stand on values...


My mom, god bless her is eighty seven years old, and has this seventy something couple sit for her from time to time... To be polite they are far from rich but they love Bush*... My mom says "you're not rich,why do you love Bush so much."....

[FrenchieCat]

52. So maybe what we need to understand....

It's that whether we like it or not, although Democrats have been given the "Big Tent" reputation, it's the Republicans that have been building a "big tent" reality.

The Repugs seem to be able to gather all different types of "one issue voters" together under the big Republican banner. The Radical Fundies, the Hate big Government/hate taxes, the racists, The homophobes, the military, the state righters, the anti-abortionists, the Neocons, the isolationists, the anti-welfarers, The Gun owners, Nascar dads, the Security moms, the anti-Clintons and the capitalist free marketers/Wall street type all voted Bush. And Repugs have also been able to attract minorities much better than in their Republican past...not based on the whole GOP platform....but just on one or two little parts.

That is a real feat if you ask me....and how they get so many votes.

Democrats, on the other hand, often appear weak and splintered....because they want to be all things to everyone.....and end up offering watered down versions of just about everything...trying to keep "even keel" policy offers as to what voters "should want" as opposed to what voters "don't want".

Seems like the "don't want" is much more popular with voters these days, e.g., don't want more taxes; dont want no big unions, don't like trial lawyers, don't want more terrorist attacks, don't want no big government programs, don't want gay people living next door, don't want their guns taken away, don't want no taxes, don't want people telling them they can't pray, don't want their failing schools, etc., etc., etc...

Maybe there's something to be said about selling "don't want" issues as opposed to the Democrats' "should want"....health care, social security, a balanced budget, peace on earth, equal rights for everyone, higher wages, a balance playing field, economic opportunities, superior public education and affordable secondary education.

So in the final analysis, it appears that many voters feel they have more power telling the government what they "don't want"....rather than asking for what they "should want" to have.

Maybe we are no longer a "can do" nation....but a "don't want" nation.

It's something to ponder. Maybe the Democrats' messages have to be framed in a "don't want" fashion instead. Maybe that would speak deeper into the hearts of Americans.

Suggestions?

[KissMeKate]

19. I will continue to advocate for what I believe in.

I will not try to focus group my opinions when I express them- most democrat positions are in the majority.

is he a democrat? That depends on whether he votes and supports and is a member of the democratic party.

There is room for his viewpoint in the party- but i willstill argue against his viewpoint if I disagree with it.

Thats why I oppose Roemer being DNC chair.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. A Democrat Is Someone Who Votes Democratic....

eom

[KissMeKate]

32. indeed, we are a big tent.

I still want progressives to control that tent, though.

[Warpy]

7. Nelson's duty is to represent his constituency

Someone running for party chair or national office has to consider the country as a whole and the needs of the party base.

You're making the blunder of thinking the whole country, or even that large parts of it, agree with you and Mr. Nelson. You are wrong.

People who agree with you and Mr. Nelson have been in control of the party for more than two decades. In that time, the party has lost more and more elections and now the GOP controls all 3 branches of government. If this is your desired aim, you and Mr. Nelson may wish to keep the party headed in the same direction which has achieved it.

However, many of us think it's high time the party focused on its traditional working class base and dropped the policies of appealing to the corporste, the globalist, the antiunion and the yuppie.

Doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity. We know what the conservatives in the Democratic party have accomplished. It's time to try something else.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. I Guess You Can Substitute Your Wisdom For The Voters Of Florida

who made Mr. Nelson, a multiple term congressmen, a multiple term Insursance Commisioner, and a United States senator...


I think Mr. Nelson has a better handle on the voters of Florida than Warpy...

[Warpy]

11. Uh, read the subject line.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. I Read It...

If you polled Floridians I would suspect a huge majority supported Dr. Rice's confirmation...

If it was a plebiscite no Dem would have voted against Dr. Rice's confirmation...

[KissMeKate]

25. sometimes standing for truth

doesnt need a focus group or a majority. Opposing the Rice nomination is the right thing toi do.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. I Suspect He Would Say A President Is Entitled To His Own Cabinet...

eom

[KissMeKate]

30. "advise and consent"

I disagree with him, then- no one is entitled to appoint someone who lied to sell a war.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. The President Who Lied To Sell The War Is The One Who Appointed Her

and practically there's not a damn thing we can do about him.....


And since there's nothing we can do to Bush* we hurl invectives against Democrats who are out there trying to stem the awful Bush tide from flooding the land by wisely choosing their battles...


I have litmus tests myself on choice, social security, and gay rights but I am not going to destroy fellow Dems on an issue that is unwinnable...

[KissMeKate]

34. we cant do anything about him,

but we can stand up and say, "here, and no further!"

and, "not in my name".

[leesa]

50. "a couple of errant votes " Do you NOT grasp how important it was for

the Democrats to side for truth in front of the world?? Do you not know that this was a CRITICAL vote??

[KissMeKate]

51. so true.

we desperately need that moral high ground. god knows we have given up so much of it.

[Finding Rawls]

53. Yeah. . .

"the world" is really going to help us pick up some more electoral votes. "The world's" hatred and opposition to Bush really helped us in the last election.

[John_H]

54. The should I get worked up test: Name one Dem activist

donor, or even regular dem voter you know in real life who articulates positions advocated by some of the posters here. Name one writer you respect who's advocating the defeat of Dems senators like Fienstein, Obama and Leahy based on one vote. Name one dem interest group who's going to bolt the paty over rice.

Now ask yourself who has a vested interest in undercutting base support for people like Leahy, Obama, and Feingold.

Still getting worked up over posts on Internet message boards? Me niether.

[ynksnewyork2]

55. I'm in FL too and Nelson's office

said he would be voting to confirm Gonzalez. Same argument "The president has a right to choose his own cabinet, yada yada..."

[KissMeKate]

56. there is no right to choose torture.

a vote for gonzales is a vote for torture.