mother sent this to me and I am FURIOUS

[Francesca]

Below is the text from an email my mother sent me and a long list of her conservative right wing friends... I am stunned she would send me this crap as she herself frequently accuses me of being an "Extreme Liberal"... I would like to address this in a calm way and reply to not just her but all the other people she emailed it to (this will royally piss her off so I need to do it in a controlled informative non inflammatory fashion).. I have a few facts I need help with. 1) I have heard that only 2 people have actually been charged with any crimes (can anyone confirm this?) 2) We have released a number of people (hundreds but I can't find stats) that were never charged with any crime 3) we held a number of old men and children (anyone have numbers) 4) Any other stats that anyone could help me with would be appreciated...
I have a real opportunity to set a few people straight here so please help!!!


The Straight Scoop from Charlie Daniels

I've just returned from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba Naval Air Station base where we did three shows for the troops and toured several locations around the post visiting with some of the finest military personnel on planet earth. The kids seemed to really enjoy the shows and especially liked "This Ain't No Rag, It's A Flag" and "In America". We had a great time with them.

We saw Camp X-Ray, where the Taliban detainees are being held only from a distance, but I picked up a lot of what's going on there from talking with a lot of different people.

The truth of the matter is that this operation is under a microscope. The Red Cross has an on site presence there and watches everything that goes on very closely. The media is not telling you the whole truth about what's going on over there. The truth is that these scum bags are not only being treated humanely, but they are probably better off healthwise and medically than they've ever been in their lives. They are fed well, able to take showers and receive state of the art medical care. And have their own Moslem chaplain. I saw several of them in a field hospital ward where they were being treated in a state of the art medical facility.

Now let's talk about the way they treat our people. First of all, they have to be watched constantly. These people are committed and wanton murderers who are willing to die just to kill someone else. One of the doctors told me that when they had Taliban in the hospital the staff had to really be careful with needles, pens and anything else which could possibly be used as a weapon. They also throw their excrement and urine on the troops who are guarding them. And our guys and gals have shown great restraint in not retaliating. We are spending over a million dollars a day maintaining and guarding these nasty killers and anyone who wants to see them brought to the U.S.A. for trial is either out of their heads or a lawyer looking for money and notoriety. Or both.

I wish that the media and the Red Cross and all the rest of the people who are so worried about these criminals would realize that this is not a troop of errant Boy Scouts. These are killers of the worst kind. They don't need protection from us, we need protection from them. If you don't get anything else out of this soapbox, please try to realize that when you see news coverage much of the time you're not getting the whole story, but an account filtered through a liberal mindset with an agenda.

We have two fights on our hands, the war against terror and the one against the loudmouthed lawyers and left wing media who would sap the strength from the American public by making us believe that we're losing the war or doing something wrong in fighting it. Remember these are the same people who told us that Saddam Hussein's Republican guard was going to be an all but invincible enemy and that our smart bombs and other weapons were not really as good as the military said that they were.

They also took up for Bill Clinton while he was cavorting around the Oval office with Monica Lewinsky while the terrorists were gaining strength and bombing our Embassies and dragging the bodies of dead American heroes around the dusty streets of Somalia. It's a shame that we can't have an unbiased media who would just report the truth and let us make up our own minds.

Here I must commend Fox News for presenting both sides much better than the other networks. They are leaving the other cable networks in the dust. People like being told the truth.

Our military not only needs but deserves our support. Let's give it to them.

The next time you read a media account about the bad treatment of the Taliban in Cuba, remember what I told you. Been there done that.

Footnote: I got an e-mail from a rather irate first cousin of mine the other day who has a daughter who's a lawyer and she seemed to think that I was painting all lawyers with the same brush. Please understand that I'm not doing that at all. That would be like saying that all musicians were drug addicts. There are a lot of good and honest attorneys out there. I happen to have one of them. But it seems that they never get any airtime. It's always the radicals who get their opinions heard, who fight the idea of the military tribunals and cite The Constitution and the integrity of America as their source of justifying their opinions. Well, first of all The Constitution says "We the people of the United States", it doesn't mention any other country.

And secondly as far as integrity is concerned, I don't think some of these folks would know integrity if it bit them in the posterior.

What do you think? God Bless America.

Charlie Daniels

P.S. send this to everyone you can...the truth needs to be told. THE REASON A DOG HAS SO MANY FRIENDS IS THAT HE WAGS HIS TAIL - NOT HIS TONGUE

[Walt Starr]

1. Write her off

Tell her you never want to hear or speak to her again because of this.

That's how I would handle it, anyway.

[liberal N proud]

2. I suspect I will be getting this from my mother-in law also

She forwards this smut and thinks that because it came from someone else that she is Friends with, it must be true and sincere.
Damn, I will have to come up with a good response for that one as well.

[lavenderdiva]

35. I'll be waiting for my copy from my mother-in-law also, in addition

to my husband's aunt. They both send me this kind of crap constantly. I haven't spoken to my husband's aunt since she told me I must not have any morals, since I voted for John Kerry. I'll be interested to read the posts you get to help you respond to this e-mail; I may need some of them myself!

[Roland99]

3. Snopes article on this lame diatribe

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/charlie2.asp
Claim: Charlie Daniels penned "The Straight Scoop," an essay about the al-Qaeda and Taliban prisoners being held at Guantanamo Bay.
Status: True.

Example:

Although, it seems Snopes hasn't updated that in almost 2 years. Much has happened since then.

[WildClarySage]

12. Is it just me or does Snopes often come across as conservative?

Don't get me wrong, nobody's better at debunking a UL, but their politics very often strike me as being well over to the right.

[Hugin]

21. I've noticed that too...

I've also noticed them being incorrect a couple of times too.

[Roland99]

26. I haven't noticed too much.

I have noticed they don't go back and revisit certain topics, such as this. That can leave a distorted view given new information.

[merh]

29. This is the first Snopes reply that I have been disappointed with.

The reply drips of emotion. I have yet to see any documentation that 1) supports the allegation that everyone of those housed at Gitmo has in fact been proven to be Al Qeada or Taliban. I believe some family members of those being held at Gitmo have been trying to get them a hearing because they are not Al Qeada or Taliban.

Having worked in corrections, I can assure you that most folks being held for 2 to 3 years with no hope - no hearings, no trials, no family communications, no outside contact (including attorneys) - will be dangerous and use whatever objects available to them to make weapons.

Yes, this response is very disappointing. :shrug:

"The detainees have since been moved to nearby Camp Delta, a permanent detention center erected for this purpose. The 8x6.66 cells have beds and walls and windows, flush toilets and running water, but can still be described as austere. Yet it's hard to imagine how the prisoners could be housed in anything less severe. These are very dangerous people, and they want to harm whichever Americans they can get their hands on. The more cluttered their cells, the more places they have to conceal items that could be used to harm others. (Rocks from the exercise yard have been found hidden under their mattresses.) The more creature comforts they're given, the more possessions they have that could be made into weapons (which is why the toothbrushes supplied to them are of the variety that cannot be shaved down into shivs). To measure their living conditions against that of inmates in American prisons is to miss a key point: jailbirds want to escape; Camp Delta detainees want to kill.

Those stationed at Gitmo (a popular slang term for the base at Guantanamo Bay) have the unenviable task of guarding approximately 600 al-Qaeda and Taliban, any of whom would turn on them if given the opportunity. (In November 2000, a member of al-Qaeda jailed in New York plunged a sharpened comb into the eye of a Metropolitan Correctional Center guard.) Ergo, the powers that be have worked out that it's best little opportunity for killing be afforded the prisoners, hence the bare bones approach to housing.

Now that the detainees have been moved to Camp Delta, a move that brought alleviation of the worst aspects of their incarceration, most Americans have forgotten about the men being held at Guantanamo Bay. Because no one seems to know what to do with them, forgetting may be the easier course."

[imenja]

4. I'd advise simply deleting

You can't change your parents, no matter how much you try. You could spend two hours refuting the email and it won't make one bit of difference. You could give it a shot if the email were from a friend, but not your mother. If I were you, I'd simply delete this email and any future similar messages and move on.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

5. I wonder if this could be printed on toilet paper..........n/t

[dmkinsey]

6. yeah, well, Ol' Charlie's off my play list

Steve Earle is much better anyway

[Mountainman]

7. My reply would be that this is so full of bull shit it isn't worth

wasting my time on.

This is the kind of shit that keeps the wingnuts in the fold and dehumanizing anyone who disagrees with them. It is the type of writing that is hurting America by pitting us against each other rather than letting us work together to solve the real problems that face us like Bush's plan to gut Social Security.

[wtmusic]

8. CD is a washed-up POS

If he were being detained for the rest of his life with no trial he'd be the first one throwing his shit at the guards.

Fuck you Charlie.

[Francesca]

16. I could not agree more with those sentiments

[Lydia Leftcoast]

9. Ask her,

"If you'd been held without charges or legal representation, being interrogated and possibly tortured, in a foreign country for three years, wouldn't you be tempted to throw excrement at your guards, too?"

[YDogg]

10. You could always ...

... e-mail her back and let her know that Charlie Daniels' letter has been debunked by snopes.com as an urban myth. Every part of it except, "People like being told the truth."

Whether it has or not, it would take her and the other recipients a while to figure that out.

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. Charlie Daniels is an asshole.

Email your mom that you don't ever want to be sent this kind of crap again and if she continues to send it, block her emails.

[Individualist]

13. Your mother needs to learn the facts

Sy Hersh's articles would be an excellent start for her. If she refuses to read them, then she's an addicted koolaid drinker and is beyond help. If the latter is the case, then tell her to stop sending you cultist propoganda.

[progressiveright]

14. charlie daniels or red cross

hmm, who do i believe ?

[CrispyQ]

15. When my mother started sending me

unsolicited right-wing/pro-W crap, I put a rule into my email to delete all of her emails as they came in. About 6 weeks later I got a call from her. "When are you going to respond to my email?" It took a minute to remember what I had done -- it had been so nice not to see 2-3 bullshit emails from her everyday. So I told her what I had done. I reminded her that I had asked her not to send me that crap & since she continued to do so & I had limited time on the internet & didn't want to waste it with crap I wasn't interested in, I deleted all her email. She was stunned & a little bit hurt, but it made my point. (Turns out the email she wanted a response to was an invitation to a wedding.)

Since then, I've deleted that rule & she's never sent me crap again.

[imenja]

18. a good lesson

You asked her, and she refused to respect your wishes. Your solution was somewhat harsh, but obviously effective. I like it.

[denverbill]

17. Ask her what she thinks of this.

http://wsws.org/articles/2005/jan2005/guan-j21.shtml

The case of Moazzam Begg provides a stark example of the travesty of international law that exists at Guantanamo and in the US-led “war on terror.” The father of three, who had moved to Afghanistan with his pregnant wife, was working in Kabul as a teacher and water supply worker when the 9/11 attacks took place. After moving to Pakistan on the outbreak of the US-led invasion, he was arrested by Pakistani security forces. While he was detained by US forces at Bagram Air Base outside Kabul, a false written confession was extracted from him after he had been tortured and witnessed the deaths of two prisoners, later officially classified as homicides. Based on this confession, he was sent to Guantanamo.
<snip>

I personally don't have any problem with keeping terrorists jailed forever. What I have a problem with is simply jailing someone forever with no hope of even a semblence of a trial to give the person a chance to prove his innocence.

Tell your mother that the Founding Fathers believed held "these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Saddam Hussein was a dictator. He could get away with jailing people forever without charges. In the United States of America, we do things differently. We believe a man is innocent until PROVEN guilty.

[Francesca]

22. Thank you for the link and advice..

I am going to try to compile a list of sources and stats to email her and her friends in addition to making a general argument against the Charlie Daniels inane diatribe.....

[Goddess Nephthis]

19. Well...

I have never been there. Charlie Daniels can say that everything is rosey, someone else can tell me that there are daily floggings in the square. I don't know. I am a former Army MP and I know that there may be some individual cases of abuse because some people are assholes at heart. A systematic policy of torture and abuse? I would have some doubts. What would piss me off is people sending me emails like this. Not because of what it says (I don't know, never been there), but because the intentions are to offend and goad. If you intend to offend me and goad me don't be surprised if I am offended.

Emails can say anything. I get dozens a week. The motives are what I pay attention to.

[TLM]

20. Ask her this....

What would she think if some of our troops were treated that way in another country?

Held without trial, tortured, etc. Would that be OK with her... after all our soldiers kill people, right? So she'd be cool with them getting the same treatment?

Or would she consider that to be outragious... and act of terrorism... and call the troops hostages?


Or and on this...

"They also took up for Bill Clinton while he was cavorting around the Oval office with Monica Lewinsky while the terrorists were gaining strength and bombing our Embassies and dragging the bodies of dead American heroes around the dusty streets of Somalia. It's a shame that we can't have an unbiased media who would just report the truth and let us make up our own minds."


Funny, if the media is so liberally bias, why is it that the Somalia story of a few dead soldiers was played over and over and over... the footage of those bodies dragged through the streets played over and over... and yet the fact Bush has sent over a thousand soldiers to their deaths in Iraq is played off and the footage of their bodies being dragged through the streets is never played. In fact we never even see coffins being returned to the US. How does that work?

[truebrit71]

23. Tell her to shut her piehole and go cook you some dinner...

..seriously, anyone that believes this sort of horseshit needs a good smack...

[Francesca]

24. Thank you I have just had my first laugh of the day

I needed something to break my temper tantrum... would love to smack her and tell her to cook me some dinner... LOL

[truebrit71]

36. Glad I could bring a smile to your face!!

..Cheers!

[verdalaven]

25. Do with your Mom what I do with my Dad:

Let it go. It isn't worth arguing over. We can love our parents/hate their politics. It is one conversation I try hard not to get into with my father and if I received an email like this, I'd delete it and forget about it. Not even respond.

Good luck with your Mom.

[Yupster]

32. Agree Verdalaven

Don't fight with your parents over religion or politics.

Respond by telling them how your kids are doing. That's probably what they want to hear about anyway.

[cestpaspossible]

27. Ask your mom

if it would be OK if she were imprisoned without charge, without access to due process, and psychologically tortured, as long as she were well-fed.

[TexasLawyer]

28. Guantanamo prisoners attempted mass suicide

Tell her to read this. And this is just the "attempts". There is something horribly wrong with America if we can do this to other human beings.


Guantanamo prisoners attempted mass suicide

Military, rights activists debate reason for ‘coordinated effort’The Associated Press

Updated: 2:10 p.m. ET Jan. 24, 2005SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - Twenty-three terror suspects tried to hang or strangle themselves at the U.S. military base in Guantanamo Bay during a mass protest in 2003, the military confirmed Monday. The incidents came during the same year the camp suffered a rash of suicide attempts after Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller took command of the prison with a mandate to get more information from prisoners accused of links to al-Qaida or the ousted Afghan Taliban regime that sheltered it.

Between Aug. 18 and Aug. 26, the 23 detainees tried to hang or strangle themselves with pieces of clothing and other items in their cells, demonstrating “self-injurious behavior,” the U.S. Southern Command in Miami said in a statement. Ten detainees made a mass attempt on Aug. 22 alone.

U.S. Southern Command described it as “a coordinated effort to disrupt camp operations and challenge a new group of security guards from the just-completed unit rotation.” Guantanamo officials classified two of the incidents as attempted suicides and informed reporters. But they but did not previously release information about the mass hangings and stranglings during that period.

Those incidents were mentioned casually during a visit earlier this month by three journalists, but officials then immediately denied there had been a mass suicide attempt. Further attempts to get details brought a statement Friday night, with some clarifications provided Monday by military officials at Guantanamo Bay and the U.S. Southern Command.

<snip>


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6862228

[TexasSissy]

30. So Charlie Daniels is supposed to be, what, smart and an expert?

Ha! Tell her you'll do whatever Willie Nelson says, rather than Charlie Daniels, and that every American has the right to choose to follow whatever celebrity singer he chooses! This is Amurica!

[Cats Against Frist]

31. Uh, if they're killers, bring charges and try them in a court of law

if not, get your fat ass back to playing the fiddle, dickhead.

[KissMeKate]

33. send her left wing stuff non stop until she stops sending you this crap.

if its good for the goose, its good for the gander.


I reply to EVERY right wing rant forwarded tro me with five left wing truth pieces.

Works after about three emails from them.

[JaneQPublic]

34. Yeah, and he also said "The South's Gonna Do It Again"

Just goes to show, don't put much stock in the political analysis skills of a mediocre fiddle-playing, beer-gut-growing, Long-haired country boy.

[PA Democrat]

37. I had a friend who was sending me this kind of crap

I was really shocked because we had done a lot of charity work together and had NEVER discussed politics.

After deleting one or two, I finally responded with a note that said that I loved her dearly but we could not possibly have more divergent views on politics. I said I didn't want to get into an email battle and didn't want to have to block her email address. She got the message.

Your mom would probably be embarrassed by a "reply all" response from you that would air a family disagreement in front of all her on-line buddies. Perhaps you could explain that to her in a private email.

[cyberpj]

38. It's no Urban Legend either -- and he's got many more where that came from

I wanted to see if this was an Urban legend. It's not. And there's plenty more where that came from on all sorts of topics as he's been doing it for years. (Hey - maybe he's one of them thar paid commentators!) He's even got one to Hollywood and another to atheiess. His site boasts new postings twice a week now.

Guess you have to do something with your time when you're music career is hanging on by a thread, making the county fair rounds playing your oldies hits to the demolition derby drunks in the stands.

At least the site has a feedback mechanism. Believe me, I gave him some.

http://www.charliedaniels.com/soapbox/soapbox.asp?id=7