What's wrong with Democrats approving Rice and Gonzalez...

[kentuck]

and Ashcroft and others? Does it matter if they tear up the Constitution and wipe their ass with it? The president has a right to destroy our Constitution and our nation if he so chooses, right? He has to be responsible for his choices, right? Democrats should not come between a radical bunch bent on destruction of our country and the chance they might be called "partisan". Better to watch the country go under than pretend to have a backbone.

[Mountainman]

1. Where is that "we are fighting for you" thing? I haven't heard it since

Nov 2nd.

[illflem]

2. I thought the same till I read

the 13 votes against Rice were the most against the nomination of a SOS in US history.

[kentuck]

4. 13?

13!

[illflem]

7. 12 Democrats and 1 Independent

[DistressedAmerican]

9. Second most.

I'll agree that it's a significant statement and an improvement. But, not it is not a significant monkey wrench in the Republican works. Filibuster.

[Blue Wally]

20. NO, not the most

Henry Clay was confirmed as SOS by a 27-14 vote.

[itzamirakul]

3. Yeah...and now the "Big Dawg" sits on C-Span today and says

"I like GWB."

Why don't they just TELL us..."Go the fuck into your liberal corner and shut the hell up because we even have your former president on our side even though we thoroughly fcuked him in the ass without grease while he was in the White House."

Sheesh!

[TexasSissy]

5. Of course...you're right. What WERE we thinking?

[DistressedAmerican]

6. Like I have been saying...

We couldn't agree more!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1536084
AND
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1532703

[cali]

8. what good does all

this hysteria and ranting do? None. I realize venting is satisfying, but after a while it's counter productive.

[DistressedAmerican]

10. We make ourselves as guilty as them if we help them.

It is like saying in court that you did not support the bank robbery but you drove the car anyway. We are the opposition. We have to oppose SOMETHING! We haven't stood up to them since 9/11.

We should look at our past actions a bit. I feel strongly that democratic votes for the confirmation of Ashcroft, for the USA Patriot Act and for the Iraq war are perfect examples of how OUR fear of a backlash has locked us into embarrassing and difficult to defend positions Regarding our own voting records and worse yet VERY bad public policy.

That is how they got Kerry. For it on the voting record and against it in print. Hard to look like you have a vision when you vote for the very things you are criticizing. This is how they got us to support this freaking ridiculous war. It is also how they got permission for the feds to have a browse of your library records.

What would you suggest as a better approach? Fill me in.

[cali]

12. You've got your history partially wrong.

And it's important. First off, regarding dems voting for Ashcroft. They didn't. Or at least the vast majority didn't. He passed in Committee 10-8, same as Gonzales yesterday. When the full Senate voted, 42 our of 49 dem Senators voted against him. You're right on the Patriot Act, and that shouldn't be overlooked. Only Feingold voted against it. On the IWR 22 Dems + good old Jeezum Jim Jeffords voted against it.

Here's where I expect them to hold the line: The sunset provisions of the Patriot Act, filibusters of right wingnut judges, especially the ones they've already filibustered, and SS- to name a few. And I'll bet you that you will see those action. In addition, I believe we'll see a strong majority of dems opposing Gonzo the torturer.
S

Sure I wish Senator Leahy had voted no on Rice, but I know the guy, and I know he's not a bush appeaser. (You really didn't think Cheney telling him to go fuck himself was an off the cuff remark, did you?)

[DistressedAmerican]

14. Looks like we agree on more than we disagree.

You've got the vote counts right on Ashcroft. I didn't look them up before hand. However, Why didn't they filibuster him? If he got through we didn't use all of the constitutionally mandated avenues open to us. I sure wish they had forced them to go back for someone more moderate. Especially considering the circumstances of the election.

As to the War resolution, our split in the party over that still haunts us. Shame on those who voted to write him a blank check. It may have been the most important vote many of them take and many failed the test.

Patriot act - Sunset away and no more expansion of powers!

I really scratch my head about Leahy. I figured he might stand ground on that one too. I sure hope they stand on all the things you mention. If they do, I'll be singing a different tune in a year. Until then, given the past 4 years, I'll be pushing for action. They are OUR reps after all.

[cali]

15. Yep. We've got more in common than that

which separates us.

I don't know why they didn't filibuster Ashcroft and I suspect they won't filibuster Gonzo either. Wish they would. I've written an email to Leahy staff asking if he's going to filibuster, and if not could they explain why. My guess is I'll get something to the effect that the pres should have wide discretion to pick blah blah blah. Beyond that I suspect that the real reason is wingnut judges and wanting to use the filibuster for that. I heard Leahy on the subject and know that he's willing to keep filibustering them. He suggested that if they went nuclear, the dems could stall all legislative business by witholding unanimous consent. I don't know how that works, but it sounded good, and I think they expect it to come to that.

[DistressedAmerican]

18. Hell, I'm willing To Try Just About Anything Following This Election!

[kentuck]

11. Silence may be taken as agreement....

I say, Rant on!

[cali]

13. Yeah, except ranting on DU

is just ranting in an echo chamber. Much more useful to be bugging your Senators about Gonzales, as I'm sure you're doing.

[DancingBear]

17. Perhaps the two are not mutually exclusive

I like to think that a few folks in The Bubble read us here on DU.

Absolutely correct on the second point - and you better know I am! :)

[KissMeKate]

19. its always a false choice.

god forbid the grass roots gets angry at our unrepresentative representatives.

[KissMeKate]

16. lol kentuck

good one