Many conservatives don't know what neocon's are.

[pdurod1]

I've asked several wild-eyed, Rush ranting co-workers (ditto-heads) what a neocon was and I just get a blank stare. I mean it's a Dan Quale/You're no JFK moment. They are so polluted by Rush, Hannity and repeat their talking points to me. "Boxer is an idiot, Democrats don't have any ideas," etc,... It's so easy to hand them their own ass. But, it astounds me that they have no idea of what a neocon is --maybe the root of our main problems.

Where do you start? A believe a call for education is a first step. "No ignorant republican left behind." It's a step to build on.

[soleft]

1. I asked our Bush voting receptionist today who Leo Strauss was

No idea

I told him to google the name

[KeireG]

2. Ah.

A campaign to inform republicans and conservative republicans about neocons would be a worthwile endeavor. The neoconservative position is held by a miniscule portion of the population, and an even more miniscule portion of the government.

[checks-n-balances]

8. How about efforts to educate the mainstream press & some of our Dem

legislators? Especially the politicians themselves. Their comments in interviews and on talking heads shows betray their ignorance about it, or else they're just playing dumb since they're usually dancing around it. If they would just bring up PNAC & recite a couple of concise, prepared comments summarizing who they are & what they'be done, they could cut straight to the heart of the matter without wasting any more time. I'm still baffled why they don't do this - it might make enough uninformed people stand up & say, in effect, "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore."

Does anybody know WHY the neocons just about virtually slipped under the radar in the mainstream press?

[LibDemAlways]

29. I saw Maxine Waters on c-span this morning.

A Dem caller asked her to talk about PNAC and she admitted she never heard of it. If that's the case, we have some educating to do. I'm going to send a letter via snail mail to her office with a concise explanation and the link to their website. It's a travesty that our elected reps are out of the loop.

[Al-CIAda]

42. PNAC needs to be exposed!!!!!!!!!

[lonestarnot]

53. Problem is PNAC acronym...If one takes the time to say Project for New

American Century...People WILL figure out what it is.

[not fooled]

3. pretty scary...

...considering that the crackpot neocons have hijacked this country's foreign policy and military strategizing.

PNAC??? What's that?

Only the insane blueprint for the decline and fall of Amerika (see: The Sorrows of Empire by Chalmers Johnson).

Of course, the media shares a lot of the blame for the fact that most 'Murkans have no clue as to the existence, let alone the actual agenda, of the neocons/PNACers. They only see the puppet/frontman * and don't have the key to decipher his uber-rantings.

Oh well, 200+ years was a pretty good run for this country.:eyes:

[Freedom_from_Chains]

4. Quite so

"Oh well, 200+ years was a pretty good run for this country"

Actually I have always thought that the founders would be ammazed that we got this far.

[The Crazy Canadian]

5. I think people are starting to talk about the neocons.

I'm beginning to hear it more in the corporate media and some politicians. During the confirmation hearing on Condi, Joe Biden brought up the neocons. Chris Matthews on Hard Ball interviewed Richard Perle last week and also talked about the neocons. I've been keeping a close ear to the media about neocons ever since the Iraq invasion.

Actually, the first time i heard about the neocons were during the first week of the Iraq invasion and ever since i've been educating myself about these guys and their origins. Really interesting stuff and i really gotta give it to them for what they've been able to accomplish.

I'm wondering if anybody ever heard Bill O'Riley, Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh use the term neocon or ever talked about them.

[lonestarnot]

54. Damn I hope you are right!

[pdurod1]

6. Bumper Sticker slogan campaign? "What is a Neocon?"

We need a "Freedom isn't Free", "They Hate our freedom", "Google search this", thing that people will look at. Build on this...

[Clark2008]

7. New con. Con being the operative word. n/t

[pdurod1]

9. "NEOCONS hate spongbob" --DIVIDE them!

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[moggie12]

10. Funny you should mention that

Earlier today, I asked DUers to e-mail CNN & MSNBC and ask them to devote some of their Iraq election coverage to talking about how we got into the war. I suggested we specifically ask them to do pieces about the neocons, saying I thought less than 10$ of Americans have ever heard of them. Got a resounding yawn in reply.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1538749

[pdurod1]

12. Make "neocon" profanity, a disease, like it is

Thanks moggie, expose these UnAmericans

[zulchzulu]

11. Stop talking to the tards by the playground Johnny-on-the-spot

They drink that water. Let them graze. It's no use.

[McCamy Taylor]

13. They talked about them briefly when LetsInvadeIrangate made the news

but then the MSM went quiet about them again. Guess they were told to hush up.

Maybe John Stewart needs to do a remedial education show about them.

[orleans]

27. good idea

send it to him
i think i will too

[No Exit]

38. The stupid, complacent freeptards don't even know that

their so-called conservative party has been taken over by a group which can be classified as "paleoliberal" (see "The Nation" article by Michael Lind, posted below by Cats Against Frist.)

Maybe we should re-christen neocons "paleoliberals". That would sure shake up some cognitive dissonance for all those trailer-dwellers who are proudly following the demented criminal Bush, thinking he and they are "conservatives".

[pdurod1]

14. Neocons are "The Enemy Within" Force Savage to Reverse this

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pdurod1]

16. google search

[pdurod1]

17. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

[Cats Against Frist]

19. Hon, you can be a "groupthink" left intellectual and still be libertarian

I'm a REAL libertarian, not a fake-o one, that simply takes my normal authoritarian philosophy into the realm of stateless fascism.

I am a federalist, and a libertarian socialist -- pretty much -- but I also believe in the right of the individual. People should be able to do whatever they want, but for anyone to say that for EVERYONE, the individual is more important than the group, is statist without a state. Same with disillusioned Republicans who THINK they're Libertarians, but have all this right-wing social construct shit that they're always pontificating about.

I'm for the individual, and the commune; I'm for the owner and the union and the discriminating laborer; I'm for the free market and the responsible consumer.

It's not "left" anything that's not libertarian. Libertarianism IS left wing, duh. It's just the opposite of the AUTHORITARIAN left.

And read my post for your schooling on neocons.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cats Against Frist]

28. If you support the Bush administration, you're not a libertarian

you're a red-state fascist and right-wing authoritarian statist.

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=4245

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/red-state-fascism.html

I don't "tow a party line," I simply have these things called values and morals that don't allow me to be a heartless asshole. I also have respect for liberty, that's why in my libertarian "utopia" you get to live on the other side of the island with your like-minded primates and do whatever the fuck you want. Get it? I'm a L-I-B-E-R-T-A-R-I-A-N, not a disillusioned pseudointellectual confused conservative that sees libertarianism as an alternative outlet for stateless, right-wing fascism.

That's liberty, right? I get to free associate, so I don't have to live with you and your sloped-forehead compadres, your outmoded patriarchal constructs and whatever else you believe.

It's almost beautiful.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lonestarnot]

52. Not a one issue voter.

[rasputin1952]

20. Allow me to be of help...

Neo-conservatives have little to do with the Republican Party of yore.

The Religious Right, mainly under Ralph Reed's direction, began in the early '80's to be a force in politics. They began small, usually at the local and state level. They harped on 'morals' and the 'degradation' of society. They came up with statistical
'evidence' that the US was morally bankrupt because of the Social Welfare State. As time went by, they became a "power" because of the financial backing of somewhat conservative businesses and church groups.

They got a real shot in the arm when Reagan was elected. An affable, but totally inept president, Reagan made use of the 'moral' argument, conveniently forgetting that as a member of the Hollywood Elite himself, and having a ton of baggage on his back. He went so far as to tell the citizens he was a "war hero", but he never left Hollywood during the '40's.

The neo-con agenda, is to return the US to "better times", like during the '30's or '50's. Of course, the same basic percentage of people were "immoral" back then, difference is, communications were not as precise, and the population was smaller.

Newt Gingrich took this a step further, and Congress became overwhelmed with these dolts that think a "Christian" government is the answer to everything, forgetting that a portion of this nation is Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, and a myriad of sub-sects. In essence, if they were True Christians, they would see that their brand of christianity is far from what was actually taught in the scriptures.

Neo-cons wish to dissolve government. That is why they are such tax-cut nuts. If they starve the funding, they can do away with the services they feel are unnecessary. It is all about consolidation of power, directly into their hands, because they believe they can do things 'better'. No unemployment benefits, no state/fed sponsored health-care, no libraries, schools get closed because teacher pay is an issue, no food stamps, no EPA, no Pell Grants, no FDA, no Forest Service, sell off national parks to the highest bidder, no pollution controls...etc, ad nauseum.

Point is, this is NOT the GOP of Eisenhower, or even Nixon...these people have an agenda, and it is the consolidation of power to ensure we become a nation of fiefdoms, dependent upon the wealthy to survive.

Hope that helps...I'm sure others can add pages to this....:)

[Cats Against Frist]

32. I sort of disagree

I think that CURRENTLY the neocon agenda dovetails with some of the Republican themes -- only insofar, however, that they needed to adapt to take over the party. Remember, they're perpetual liars, and they HAVE been accused of being "fake Republicans." The paleocons, as you know, LOATHE THEM.

They aren't, though, Rasputin, for the dismantling of government, at all. If you want to call gutting the Bill of Rights, and spending $200 billion plus to giveaway to defense contractors and oil companies, many of whom work *cough Cheney * in the administration, "smaller government" then, go ahead. I don't see it.

I think they're still stringing along some weak-minded Republicans who are still under the illusion that corpo-fascism and crony capitalism, military as a corporate arm, and EXPANDED entitlements as payola to big businesses, prohibiting consumer buying power by busting up storefronts to get cheap drugs from Canada, taking away basic fundamental and human rights, paying pundits to propagandize dull freepers, paying farm subsidies and doling out pork, creating an empire, lauding federal government programs promoting marriage and No Child Left behind, proposing Constitutional Amendments to ban abortion, gay marriage and flag burning, and to promote indoctrination of public school children IS SOMEHOW "smaller government."

They never wanted "smaller government," they wanted THEIR version of Big Brother, which includes not DISMANTLING the welfare state, but turning that money over to Wall Street and their corpo-fascist friends.

Dismantling was never part of their program. And neocons, least of all.

[Cats Against Frist]

33. And Remember: The VERY LAST THING a Straussian wants

is for a constituent actor to be the "agent of his own destiny."

THEY are your destiny. They make your reality -- and their opinion is that YOU should fall in line.

[Just Me]

48. Concentrating wealth & power into a few wealthy intectual elitists,..

,...is the core of both their domestic & foreign policy. However, it really has nothing to do with extinguishing government but rather empowering government to serve their interest in funnelling public wealth into their hands (their hands actually BEING the military industrial complex former leaders feared would destroy this country).

This is an excellent thread.

More Americans, ALL Americans need to be educated about this radical cabal which represents NO other group other than their tight elitist circle.

[Melynn]

40. This is my definition

I posted this in a another thread but it seems appropriate to this thread so I am reposting it here. I'm not sure if that's a violation of DU rules but if is a violation of the rules, I hope the mods cut me some slack.

My definition of a neo-con vs a conservative is pretty simplistic compared to other people's definition but anyway here it is:


Real conservatives aren't neo-cons. Real conservatives don't believe in nation building and using the government to achieve their goals.

Neo-cons are basically fascists and believe in using the government to further their agenda. A neo-con uses the government to achieve what might be considered "conservative goals", such as helping private businesses, increasing national security through the suppression of civil liberties and preemptive wars against hostile nations. A real conservative has a libertarian bent and wants a government that is unobtrusive as possible.

The problem is that conservatives will roll over for the neo-cons when the neo-cons play the nationalist card. That's what happen in Nazi Germany and that's what is happening in America.

[Cats Against Frist]

18. What's funny though is when your average freeptard DOES know

-- or thinks he knows -- what a "neocon" is and proudly identifies himself as one.

And I say, "honey -- those philosopher kings wouldn't feed you their shit if you were starving. They knew you were a dumb asshole, and they lied to you ON PURPOSE to get you to support their programs. That's what they think of you. That the only thing you're good for is for them to grasp ahold of your one working brain cell and blindly support them.

Then, I usually try to explain that these are the right-wing counterparts of the "ivory-tower, intellectual 'elite' that they're always so paranoid about."

And that yes, they ARE looking down at the Republican constituency, from their right-wing ivory towers and thinking, "god damn, it's a good thing they're all so stupid, or we'd be playing canasta in the AEI basement, instead of killing hundreds of thousands of people."

And the reason that they went undetected for so long is because they LIED about their existence, just like everything else. Remember, these are the intellectuals that spoon-feed Rush and Hannity. These are the ones who are "history's actors," and want to dislodge reality, so they can fill it with their new, right-wing "objectivity."

They don't believe anything is "measurable" in the real world that they don't assert, so lying about their existence is no big deal. They lie about everything. They're some kind of bastardization of postmodernism, but they think they're like devotees of Plato, when they're really the subjects of Foucault.

There was a wonderful quote, in The Nation, by Michael Lind, a brilliant journalist, that went:

"As the enormity of the debacle became apparent, neoconservatives abruptly began avowing their own nonexistence. Not since Stalin ordered the US Communist Party to go underground has an American political faction pretended to dissolve itself in public like this."

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20040223&s=lind

And when they DO become identified, they play the "defamation" card, because many of them are Jewish. I don't give a fuck who they are, they need to be outed. And interestingly, I believe some of them have even been "suspected" of spying for Israel.

I suggest you watch the back episode of "Washington Journal" when Richard Perle was on. It is a gem, and perhaps, a classic Washington Journal (you know you're into politics too much, when you have "favorite" episodes of Washington Journal):

http://www.c-span.org/search/basic.asp?ResultStart=1&ResultCount=10&BasicQueryText=perle&image1.x=29&image1.y=8

It's particularly funny to see his face go beet red when someone calls in and calls him a fascist. It's also great that he spends the entire time trying to convince the host and the audience that the war is "not about Israel or oil," and then the numbfuck Republican callers call up and drawl on about "we gotta protect the oil," and "we gotta protect Israel."

It's pretty hilarious. Richard Perle's nickname, if you didn't know, is "The Prince of Darkness."

Anyway, send your little freeper friends, this:

http://evatt.org.au/publications/papers/112.html

It's a good place to start. However, be forewarned, in true fashion, they already have tons of web sites that say: "Huh? Strauss who? We lowly PNAC signers don't know Strauss and we don't know -- what is this -- this -- "neoconservativsm????" :eyes:

These guys are the reasons that I'm a libertarian. A libertarian is the OPPOSITE of Strauss, as this man will tell you, repeatedly, in a number of entertaining ways:

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cats Against Frist]

26. I don't give a fuck what you say

I think the government should be de-centralized or "federalized" and that smaller units of government, which will rule in the way that constituents wish, representing the ideals of the area, town or state.

Some people think that wealth should be re-distributed or pooled, and are quite glad to contribute to the effort, especially some of the ultra-rich, who realize the stabilizing force that social programs play in society. In other words -- they don't want the "have nots" coming up their driveway. Why not let these people do what they want?

You give libertarians a bad name, and it sounds like that you're not really a libertarian, but a dogmatic, statless fascist anarchocapitalist. Me, being a real libertarian will tolerate you, but thanks to the "free association" in libertarian societies, I don't have deal with your heartlessness, indignance, social darwinistic tendencies, outmoded cultural constructs or naive prescriptions.

[pdurod1]

31. Cats, A Frist, I love your message

It's not gonna happen. One step at a time. Remember, 280 million people.

[Cats Against Frist]

30. Oh &

Neoconservatives, like all creatures of the night, are said to "shape-shift," to fit whichever party will let them create their Empire and Israeli expansion. That means they don't really HAVE a domestic agenda, or traditionally haven't had. Many of them are not against the Welfare state -- and they're ALL for "big government" -- what do you think an "empire" is? It's a fucking huge government.

They've been doing a number on the Christians for some time -- if you google some old Irving Kristol columns you'll see him "protest too much," that he REALLY is a conservative. Remember, neocons are also Trotskyites and were cold-war "liberals." Many democrats support the neocons, and in turn, neocons have supported some Democrats.

[No Exit]

35. Yes!! What's libertarian about constant meddling

(or making of war) with other countries and regions?? Nothing!

And the shape-shifting... to be downright simplistic about it, these people (as Lind's article says) have shifted from a place on the liberal side, to a place on the conservative side. Once again, this affirms something I have long noticed (but which I didn't understand until reading Lind's article.)

And Lind's article is not the first one I've read that points out that "The Committee for the Present Danger" was a forerunner of the plan that currently has Americans cowering in fear of "terrists".

[checks-n-balances]

41. Just curious - you sound so opposite in philosophy from most DUers

so I'm wondering why you visit and post on DU anyway. Especially if you fit the neocon profile. Doesn't make sense to me, unless you're just here to disrupt and confuse things.

[No Exit]

34. Wow... WOW... that article from "The Nation"...

Thank you for posting that! It is so replete with connections and ways of making sense of this senseless group (neocons), that I'm at a loss to put down any single comment in praise of it. But it is a real eye-opener!

And in other news, Douglas Feith is resigning "to spend more time with his family". Heh heh heh. When they use that reason for resigning, you gotta know something smells...(hmmm... the name Larry Franklin comes to mind...) I only hope that his influence will diminish with his hasty exit. (Not a foregone conclusion, considering the influence of William Kristol, who was never even in the defense department. And of course Kristol is omnipresent on the destructive propaganda channel, Fox News.)

Current events are, of course, just history in the making, and the neocons will have their place in the American history books--that is, assuming they don't destroy us to the point where we are unable to continue our existence in history.

Even before reading that excellent article, I had noticed that "neocon" is by no means synonymous with "American Jew". Thus, neocons cannot effectively quiet their critics with the usual cries of "anti-semitism". Anecdotally, I have long noticed that most of the Jews I know are not buying into this fraudulent Iraq(and now Iran) war, the endless war that the neocons are promoting. We can't blame this neocon cancer on American Jews--but Zionists or Likudniks are a different story. Some people naturally think of Jews as being the polar opposites of fascists, considering that they were slaughtered by the German nazi fascists. As this author implies, the neocons have much in common with those nazis, and so I guess those neocons who happen to be Jewish have now "become the abyss".

Once again, thanks for posting this article. It is truly a must-read for all who are trying to figure out this senseless and destructive administration. Oh--and, love your screen name, too.

[Cats Against Frist]

37. Thanks. I used to be kind of obsessed with Strauss.

You should read Justin Raimondo's columns, though. He's quite a character, that's for sure -- he's all over Likud and every Jewish/Neocon/Mossad "conspiracy" theory that there is. He's very up on Sibel Edmunds stuff, as well. And he links a whole bunch of stuff.

[No Exit]

39. Yes, I often read antiwar.com, and there's also

whatreallyhappened.com.

Following Raimondo and others would just have to cause a reader to question who was really behind 9/11. And once someone has stopped buying into the general 9/11 mythology that is disseminated by this corrupt administration, it is only a short step to understanding why Bush/Cheney should be impeached and/or tried for treason (not to mention murder.)

[underpants]

55. they ARE looking down at the Republican constituency

post election proves that. W has already said he isn't going to push the Gay Marriage Amendment then he sort of backed out of that too-they won't waste their time on it.

I posted a few weeks ago after hearing Rush say that "neo-con" was a liberal pejorative for "Republican Jew". They are trying to make it the new "n" word that must not pass the lips of anyone. A great idea for them really they can take it off the table so that their masses never figure out that they are being used.

[No Exit]

21. Yes--and a squirrel doesn't know it's a squirrel, either

We, on these internet forums, are the "news junkies" who actually follow certain stories. We can see patterns and predict outcomes that are a total mystery to the average person, who might read very little current events.

Regarding the Rush/Hannity fans you described, once you've taught them what a neocon is, start to familiarize them with what a Strausscon is. You'll have to work slowly and use lots of repetition, because as we all know, Rush/Hannity fans are very stupid.

[IronLionZion]

23. wikipedia article link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservative_%28U.S.%29

I still barely understand what a "neo-con" is but I know they are bad and that muslims should run from them.

[pdurod1]

24. And that Americans should run from them too

[No Exit]

36. May not have to... it seems the neocons are doing the running...

considering that Feith and Perle have both resigned from the defense department. (I only hope this signals a position of less influence, not MORE influence, for each of them.) I'm still waiting for Wolfowitz to exit. I was also hoping for Rumsfeld to exit, but my hope there was tempered by a fear that our demented "president" would replace him with someone even worse--such as Wolfowitz himself.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[El Fuego]

46. We should all "adopt a rightie" and educate them!

Changing the world one wacko at a time...

[Zensea]

47. Many liberals don't know what neoliberals are either

Hope that isn't too far off topic.

[Just Me]

49. Great thread. Thank you for posting!!! n/t

[hansberrym]

50. But then, many libs don't seem to understand either

The current Republican administration's meddling in Iraq is little different than what has been done under past Democrat administrations. Did we really forget so soon that pres Clinton continued the No Fly Zones over Iraq and kept up the bombing? That he kept us involved in Somalia and Boznia, and also involved the US in Haiti? That he took up the baton handed to him by his New World Order predecessor and pushed through NAFTA over the objections of labor unions?

The giant sucking sound of relocating manufacturing is simply not addressed outside of Lou Dobbs' show, even Ross Perot has thrown in the towel. This was a ready made issue in the presidential race, but kerry had supported NAFTA himself so he could only go so far in attacking Bush's trade policies. Kerry's call for a stop to further trade agreements until we figure out just hown deeply we have obligated ourselves with NAFTA was a small step in the right direction.


The Neocons and thier counterparts on the left don't really fit the normal left-right paradigm as it relates to domestic policy. Their chief concern is the US role in world affairs, though sometimes it seems world affairs is their only concern. They just don't seem to care what toll their policies might have on the long term prospects of the US or of ordinary americans who actually work for a living. IMO neither of them are any good for our country's health. Their aims are directed at remolding the world into a Free Trade zone where internatioanl law will be formulated for the benefit of the international corporations.

So maybe its time that liberals and libertarians put aside their domestic policy differences ands join forces to oust the Neocons and thier New World Order associates on the left.

[lonestarnot]

51. Believe you are right.