Joe Biden says Bush is a realist and Europe should just get over it

[whirlygigspin]

live on BBC world service radio from Davos.

What an asshole.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/

take a listen, John McCain & Biden are trying to pretend they have no idea why Europe is so hostile to the Bush administration.

[ikojo]

1. With Dems like Biden supporting every part of the Bush

agenda there should be no problem establishing permanent Republican rule.

Wow! It's so nice that there is an opposition party in the US.

[burythehatchet]

2. I'm just sayin'

he was going to be in Kerry's cabinet

[Hissyspit]

3. Sigh...

You can still read the Time Magazine article by McCain online arguing for the Iraq War based on the WMD before the war started. So, nothing he says means much to me, and why should it to the Europeans? Has he admitted publicly he was wrong?

Our leaders have no fucking clue. 9/11 could have and should have been stopped. Iraq had nothing to do with it. There were clearly no WMD before the war. This administration is evil and anti-American.

Anybody who refuses to admit these things is a hypocrite, liar, fool, idiot or combination of all four.

Sometimes it takes an outside view to see us clearly.

The Christmas before the war (DEC. 2002?), I was in Britain with my British girlfriend whose father is a high-ranking officer in the Royal Navy. He said (this was when the inspectors were still working in Iraq against the Bush admin's wishes and fait accompli timetable) "Don't you think we will have to deal with Saddam sooner or later?" He didn't argue WMD. He didn't argue 9/11. He just said Saddam was a problem for the West. He represented the right wing. Everyone else I met in UK thought the U.S. was nuts and bloodthirsty.

ON EDIT: Edited for spelling and I added a bunch of stuff...

[rodeodance]

11. and more sighs

[CindyDale]

4. Is he being facetious?

[whirlygigspin]

6. no, he's being defensive

McCain just said the BBC was worse than CBS, (((laughs)))

-breaking for news-

[Hissyspit]

10. McCain should talk...

See my post above about him.

[McFlyGuy]

5. ...

McCain and Biden... what a pair of populist hacks

[tsuki]

7. I cannot listen. Computer is as old as I am (almost.) Did he really

say "get over it?" I mean use those words?

[Disturbed]

9. 90% of Dems in Congress are..

Repug Lite. It's time that Dems think about joining the Green Party that stands for what the Dem Party used to stand for.

[McFlyGuy]

15. I agree

now that would be a political party! do you think it's politically viable?

[Hissyspit]

16. Let's See... Split Progressive Votes Between the Greens and Demos? Hmm

Seems to me, last time that happened, George W. Bush and cronies got into office for 8 years.

[Bark Bark Bark]

8. Am I Unpatriotic For Feeling Like This?

I'm waiting for reality to slap US across the face, hard. When "God" tells Li'l Dubbie to begin bombing Iran, I fully expect the rest of the world to decide they won't wait to see who's next--and hand us our own asses.

It wouldn't require military action. We're in foreign debt up to our eyeballs, we've outsourced everything we can, and we think education is just a spot to trim budgets annually. And (as noted in this thread), we are arrogantly pissing off every human being we can piss off.

Imagine: Canada and Mexico closing THEIR borders, while Europe and (most of) Asia slap us with embargos.

How long would we last? Seriously?

I'm finally genuinely curious to find out.

[Ian David]

22. You're not being un-patriotic

What this government needs is an Alcoholics Anonymous style intervention. And before you admit you need help, you have to hit rock bottom.

We need help.

And to paraphrase Condie Rice, we don't want rock bottom to come in the form of a mushroom cloud.

Unfortunately, there is likely to be a nuclear or chemical attack of some kind against us in the near future. I just pray it's in a red state.

[CindyDale]

26. There are so many reds in the blue U.S.

And so many blues in the red U.S.
That it doesn't behoove any of the U.S.
To talk about the rest of U.S.

[tsuki]

30. You know, more than a terrorist's dirty bomb, having Dubya's finger

on the arsenal scares me more. Especially since the Payola Pundits, like Ann Coulter, have been calling to bomb Iraq to glass. I know that I am over-reacting, but I am still scared. More frightened than I was during the Cuban Missle Crisis.

[sendero]

39. Unfortunately...

.. it isn't just the government, it is the population of America acting as "enablers".

I don't wish for the inevitable results of our course, I just accept the fact that they are coming and am trying to shore up my personal situation to deal with it all as well as possible.

[OneTwentyoNine]

37. Your right,the rest of the World doesn't need to attack us with bombs...

All they need to do is close the spigot. That spigot could be Oil,clothes,electronics or whatever. We manufacture almost NOTHING in this country and what little is left is slowly dissappearing.

It sure as hell wouldn't take a major military offensive to bring the USA down.

[leesa]

46. It's already beginning to happen. All sorts of deals are being worked

out that exclude the US. Bush has sealed our doom.

They let us slide after the first unelected term of Bush, but they aren't going to wait any longer for foolish Americans to come to their senses.

They have to be careful about outright embargoes though because Bush published his national plan in 2002 and it clearly stated that we would militarily attack countries that embargoed us.

[CindyDale]

12. I just checked out a pro-Bush blog

They are calling Biden a traitor for saaying the admin needs to grow up or something like that.

Geez, you can't please anyone, can ya?

[Hissyspit]

13. So when they said the Clinton administration needed to grow up...

or something like that, they were being traitors?

[CWebster]

14. There would be a lesson here IF elections weren't manufactured

Notice how the Dems never rein Biden in -even though he is a predictable loose cannon, firing all over the place, BUT they attack Dean for not participating in the bipartisan illusion, as if he was too much a risk for telling the truth.

[Ian David]

34. I told John Kerry's office to "Kick Biden in the balls if you can find any

Not very mature, I know.

But it made me feel netter

[McFlyGuy]

17. They called him a traitor?

who?

[Ian David]

19. Joe Biden confuses me

1) He mercilessly eviscerates Dr. Rice
2) He condemns her actions, failed policies, torture, and faulty intelligence
3) He still votes to confirm her
4) And now he supports Bushler as "a realist"?

Aside from being so in love with his own voice that he practically comes to orgasm every time he gets to speak, I have no clue what makes this guy tick.

What I do know is I hate the bastard's guts.

[RafterMan]

24. I'm dubious about this report

That was never Biden's argument -- his "get over it" argument is that Bush got elected and Europe can make the best of it or they can stamp their feet and cry.

You don't have to agree with him, but it's not a Bush-supporting argument.

[Hissyspit]

27. Note in my original posting (#3) I did not mention Biden

I thought he might be being taken out of context, as I did not listen to the interview. I just addressed the larger "European-view" issue.

[CWebster]

28. This is pretty much tieing it all in knots to give Biden a break

Even if one were to entertain the thought that Europe "get over it" or that Bush was a "realist", first is not speaking for me, and second:

What kind of addleheaded jerk goes around spouting this arrogant nonsense which only serves to further alienate us?

[RafterMan]

31. It's not tying anything in knots

I've heard him speak about this many times -- it's his position, plain and simple.

[Hissyspit]

32. I meant to say that in my last post, as well, but forgot. :-P

That even if he is taken out of context, why is he saying something that confuses the issue?

[salin]

45. Maybe he heard it elsewhere,

liked the sound and flow of the rhetoric, and decided to use it when he was given the mike .... he isn't always the most original speaker....

[leesa]

47. He told Iran they need to grow up and said so does our administration

Of course, the reality is that Iran IS having diplomatic discourse with the EU, but, understandably refuses to have anything to do with the US.

Biden is wrong to say Iran needs to grow up when THEY are doing the mature thing and we are not.

[Tinoire]

49. Cheap words for the historical record that he's hoping will ignore his

real record.

I hate his guts too.

[rodeodance]

29. so Biden says the Admin. needs to grow up and the Europeans

need to get over it. Well.....at least he is digging it to both sides.
In some ways he is calling them toddles with tantums--which is about right in my book!!

[still_one]

18. biden is a loser, just like the other psudo dems like him

until the democratic party stands for integrity they will not win elections. It is time to vote new blood in

[Nightwing]

20. Biden is a Bush licker

Always has been and always will be. He will NEVER get my support should he choose to run for Pres in '08.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian David]

23. No, you don't have to hate EVERY Republican

Just the ones holding public office.

Actually, I dislike John McCain, but not enough to hate him. The same with The Governator (but I wouldn't leave him alone in a room with my wife).

And you're damn right there's a lot of hate and righteous anger.

We've been abused by the Repugs for too long.

You don't appease an abuser.

You admit that you've been abused and either get help or fight back. And nobody can help us except ourselves.

[Hissyspit]

25. Republicans are getting people killed and taking our society to...

treacherous places. And the Democrats who enable them are getting people killed and taking our society to treacherous places.

Noone has to hate anyone. But they have no excuse for being naive.

[Hello_Kitty]

40. Try Free Republic

They love Republicans there. This isn't an unbiased forum and that is made clear to anyone who reads it. Unlike FoxNews we don't pretend to be "fair and balanced". And if you keep reading DU you will see that there's a lot more here than righteous anger.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cats Against Frist]

42. You can like Ron Paul

I wouldn't say it's a qualification to hate every Republican -- and I don't think most people HATE every Republican -- but if you're clear-thinking, I would suggest that you hold all Bush supporters, whether they are Dem or Republican politicians, as well as Republican constituents as personally responsible for destroying reality, manipulating their dull voters with propaganda and lies, advocating corpo-fascism, building an empire, tainting the name of Jesus, making humans into human capital, and being the most hypocritical fuckers to walk the face of the earth.

And I'm a libertarian.

Hate is not a requirement. Good sense is. And if you think this is hateful, you should waltz over and see the sloped-foreheaders at Free Republic.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

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[rooboy]

33. This isn't new for Biden...

he went over to Europe a year or two ago and basically told them that the US would be bullying the rest of the world even if Bush wasn't in power.

The guy's an idiot and I'm still stunned by Thom Hartmann's comment that he thought Biden was an extremely intelligent guy.

[arewenotdemo]

36. Agreed. Biden is an idiot.

But would the right meds make him less of one?

[leftyandproud]

35. But you can bet he will be re-elected!

All the DLC types are.

That little voice in me whispering "new party...new party...new party.." gets louder every day.

[Hissyspit]

38. I sympathize completely, but...

see my post #16 above.

[JNelson6563]

41. Sickening

Biden is an asshole. I am really sick of his self-righteous bullshit.

Julie

[UnvOfMiami]

43. he's been saying that for

a month or two now!

[EFerrari]

44. Wait a minute

When I saw him do this bit at the Rice hearings, he brought it up for the express purpose of rubbing in how the Dim Son is HATED in Europe. It was a left handed way of introducing the fact, not at all to praise Bush or diss Europe. And he did it in a roomful of Republicans who couldn't take except. Kind of neat actually.

[Tinoire]

50. Biden signed the before last PNAC letter to/against Europe

September 28, 2004
PNAC letter "TO to the Heads of State and Government
Of the European Union and NATO" about their belligerent attitude towards us in not rallying against Russia

http://www.newamericancentury.org/russia-20040928.htm

[Al-CIAda]

52. Damn, Biden is a PNAC mole!

[LibertyorDeath]

51. Then he is an ignorant fuck or a lying asshole

maybe both!

Europe knows Exactly whats going on.

It is easy to demonstrate that for Bush planners, the threat of terror is a low priority. The invasion of Iraq is only one of many illustrations. Even their own intelligence agencies agreed with the consensus among other agencies, and independent specialists, that the invasion was likely to increase the threat of terror, as it did; probably nuclear proliferation as well, as also predicted. Such threats are simply not high priorities as compared with the opportunity to establish the first secure military bases in a dependent client state at the heart of the world’s major energy reserves, a region understood since World War II to be the “most strategically important area of the world,” “a stupendous source of strategic power, and one of the greatest material prizes in world history.” Apart from what one historian of the industry calls “profits beyond the dreams of avarice,” which must flow in the right direction, control over two-thirds of the world’s estimated hydrocarbon reserves—uniquely cheap and easy to exploit—provides what Zbigniew Brzezinski recently called “critical leverage” over European and Asian rivals, what George Kennan many years earlier had called “veto power” over them. These have been crucial policy concerns throughout the post-World War II period, even more so in today’s evolving tripolar world, with its threat that Europe and Asia might move towards greater independence, and worse, might be united: China and the EU became each other’s major trading partners in 2004, joined by the world’s second largest economy (Japan), and those tendencies are likely to increase. A firm hand on the spigot reduces these dangers.

Note that the critical issue is control, not access. U.S. policies towards the Middle East were the same when it was a net exporter of oil, and remain the same today when U.S. intelligence projects that the U.S. will rely on more stable Atlantic Basin resources. Policies would be likely to be about the same if the U.S. were to switch to renewable energy. The need to control the “stupendous source of strategic power” and to gain “profits beyond the dreams of avarice” would remain. Jockeying over Central Asia and pipeline routes reflects similar concerns.

More
http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Jan2005/chomskypr0105.html

[Gyre]

56. Bootlicker extraordinaire.

Yaaaackkkkkkk! :grr:

Gyre