Kerry on Patriot Act

[Hawkeye-X]

Kerry is completely wrong on this:

On Jennings wrap up show last night, Kerry actually said that the only problem with the Patriot Act was that it was being used in the wrong way by the wrong administration.

The Patriot Act needs to be repealed and removed and shoved up to Asskroft's ass and superglued in.

Hawkeye-X

[gWbush is Mabus]

1. both kerry and edwards are WRONG on the patriot act

that is the main reason why i do not support them.

[JI7]

2. isn't kucinich the only one

isn't kucinich the only one who wants to get rid of it entirely ?

[Sly Kal]

3. He did say that

I couldn't believe my ears.

[zbdent]

4. I always want to ask some RWer why he's so happy about the

Patriot Act when the RWers went nuts over a database Clinton had.

[blm]

5. That's not all he said. Why pretend it was?

He said that all the egregious areas should be taken out and only the useful ones for anti-terror measures should remain.

Guess you didn't know Kerry sent up legislation a few months ago to repeal parts of the Patriot Act?

[cindyw]

18. Don't you love paraphrasing.

Kerry said that Ashcroft was abusing it and that parts of it were wrong. We just have to keep saying the truth. It will sink in.

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. Eeeeeeek!

You have got to be kidding me? He didn't say that....did he? :(

*sigh*

[Cocoa]

9. no it's not true

I saw the program and that's not what Kerry said.

[Cocoa]

7. you have to stop posting this unsubstantiated stuff

I distinctly remember him mentioning problems with the law itself, including "sneak and peek."

Stop smearing Kerry, please.

[Democrats unite]

13. Some people have no choice their candidate is dead in the water...

They have nothing else better to do. Can't fight their candidates issues, so put spin on anther candates issues.

[DuctapeFatwa]

8. It is wrong, but it is a popular opinion, and not just regarding

the Patriot Act.

What Kerry said reflects the positions of most candidates on the war as well, and the whole thrust of the campaign: it is essentially a bid to put a Democratic face on PNAC.

Kerry has just phrased it a little more honestly than you are used to seeing.

[HFishbine]

16. Mr. Fatwa, are you familiar with "Progressive Internationalism?"

http://www.ppionline.org/documents/Progressive_Internationalism_1003.pdf

This is the democratic answer to PNAC. Google "Kerry and progressive internationalism" and you'll see that it is part of his lexicon.

[DuctapeFatwa]

35. It is a very clever and skillful rewrite of the PNAC documents

and its implementation would produce some very visible cosmetic changes that have the potential to appeal to a broad sector of the mainstream of the US voting classes.

[Monte Carlo]

10. Somebody's on a mission today, hmmm?

Is Kerry really this two-faced monster, or perhaps there's been some sort of misunderstanding?

[evil_orange_cat]

11. Kerry has a point about that kind of power...

that it could be used properly with the right administration... the problem I have is that I don't believe government should have that kind of power. The Asscroft problem precisely illustrates why.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. Is there a transcript?

a link to the actual interview? I would like to read it, please.

[seaglass]

15. How about an actual link to his words...like this:

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/bush/articles/2003/12/02/kerry_pledges_to_end_era_of_ashcroft/

Kerry pledges to end 'era of Ashcroft'
Says White House abused Patriot Act
By Patrick Healy, Globe Staff, 12/2/2003


Speaking at Iowa State University, the Massachusetts Democrat accused Ashcroft and Bush of abusing the USA Patriot Act, a counterterrorism law enacted in October 2001, in ways that harmed civil liberties protections and "abused the spirit of national action after the terrorist attacks." He said the Justice Department has authorized federal agents to spy on Americans who criticize the Republican administration, to conduct searches and seize evidence without warrants, to scrutinize citizens' computer files, and to detain a significant number of Arabs and Arab-Americans without sufficient cause.

"We are a nation of laws and liberties, not of a knock in the night. So it is time to end the era of John Ashcroft," Kerry said in prepared remarks.

snip...

Kerry said one of his first acts as president would be to replace the Patriot Act -- which he voted for -- with a new law that kept some of the act's provisions, such as tougher penalties for terrorists, while also strengthening civil liberties protections. He said the federal government would stop indefinite detentions of US citizens, and guarantee legal and other rights for those who are held.

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. I'd like a link to the Jennings interview

from last night. That is where he is suppose to have made this statement.

[seaglass]

19. So would I. Looks like blm knows what was said and

the original poster left something out.

Until I see something contrary to Kerry's stated position, I'm certainly not going to believe this.

[sandnsea]

24. It's the ideology we're fighting

I didn't see the program, but there are two points with this Patriot Act. One is the law itself, which he has introduced legislation to correct. The other is the ideology. We have to fight the ideology more than specific aspects of laws. It's these people's disrespect for civil rights in regards to the Patriot Act, etc., and that's the major reason they have to go. The Democratic Party is trying desperately to frame the debate here. It would be helpful if all of us out here would see it and get on board.

[Hawkeye-X]

20. kick

back to top -- psst -- ask Peter Jennings on that quote, don't ask me.

Hawkeye-X

[Cocoa]

21. a request for honest Dean supporters

I'm not a Dean supporter, but I know his campaign is based on more than smears against Kerry.

It would help Dean greatly for the many honest Dean supporters to denounce this crap now.

Thanks.

[JVS]

25. I cannot denounce the truth

Kerry has to defend the record he has built for himself in the last few years as a supporter of such terrible legislation. If you find a Dean supporter talking about Kerry's hair, I could criticize that. But as far as real issues go, Kerry gets no pass.

[Cocoa]

30. I saw Kerry last night

he didn't say what this person says he did.

The legislation should be discussed, but honestly, no making shit up.

[JVS]

32. I'd need to see a transcription of the show to know.

But different people interpret statements in different ways.

[sandnsea]

22. It's one problem, not the only problem

He's introduced legislation to fix the things that are wrong. He clearly understands there's things in there that can be abused. However, it is important to recognize that with an attorney general like John Ashcroft, abuses occur that wouldn't have with AG's who are respectful of civil liberties. It is important to make people understand we're talking about more than laws this election, we're talking about a dangerous ideology that is destroying the country. It's the ideology, stupid.

[AP]

23. I'm not defending the PA, but I wonder if people who say this can name

say, 20 provisions in the PA.

It helps to know what you're actually fighting against before you criticize Kerry. Furthermore, I'd prefer a candidate who doesn't even remotely sound like they don't care about keeping America safe.

You know the Republicans are going to sell the PA as the only thing standing between you and a bomb in a baby carriage. And you know that there isn't a Democrat running for office outside of Georgia who LIKES the PA. So why do you want to force your candidate to talk about things that are going to help Bush get elected.

Did you happen to notice how voters voted in Iowa? Dean had 40 millioin to get his message out about IWR and PA and the two candidates whom he complained about most beat him.

[zulchzulu]

26. Patriot Act runs out on Jan 1, 2004 n/t

[zulchzulu]

27. How would Dean have voted if he had a choice back then...

Once again, if Dean had been in a position to vote during the time of the Patriot Act, I believe that he would have voted for it. Here's some evidence of what he said at the time back in 2001:

Snip:
Dean said Wednesday he believed that the attacks and their aftermath would “require a re-evaluation of the importance of some of our specific civil liberties. I think there are going to be debates about what can be said where, what can be printed where, what kind of freedom of movement people have and whether it's OK for a policeman to ask for your ID just because you're walking down the street.”

http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/News/Story/33681.html

Just like Dean would probably have voted for the IWR based on his opinions during the time of the vote, he would probably have voted for the Patriot Act during that time of voting.

A little homework is a very valuable experience.

[sandnsea]

28. Well he's not repealing it

I honestly don't know why some of this stuff keeps coming up. What is the point of arguing something when ones own candidate has the exact same view. I don't get it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. Where's the transcript?

How can I defend what Kerry said if we don't actually know what he said?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Sounds like Kerry and bush agree again. What a guy.

First he says that his vote for war was right, and now defends his vote for the "Patriot" (what a laugh that is) Act.

[Snivi Yllom]

33. yuck

shaking my head....grrrrrr

[IndianaGreen]

34. Kerry wants to keep Bush's police state intact

Despite the sweet and reassuring words, Kerry's proposals that are posted on the ABC News website shows a total disregard for Posse Comitatus. A President Kerry will continue with the Homeland police state apparatus, and he will expanded it. Kerry's proposal will bring the Homeland spies right next door into our neighborhoods. Kerry will continue to wage the "war on terra" for as long as Oceania's endless wars described by George Orwell in his novel 1984.

Read it and weep!:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/intheirownwords/kerry/6.html