Donnie Fowlers 2000 election performance was BAD

[Cheswick2.0]

In 2000, Donnie Fowler was the field director for the Gore campaign. I live in Pa, one of the most important swing states in the nation. I live in the north east part of Pa, which is the swing area of the state. Philly and Pitt will go democratic but Luzerne and Lackawanna counties are crucial to get those last few percentage points to win the state.

In 1996, with Perot taking 10 percent of the vote in Pa, Clinton got 49 percent and won the state. In 2000 with Nader getting only 2 percent, Gore took only 51 percent of the vote. I don't know what the percentages were in my county in 2000, but I do know that this year we got 54 and 57 percent in the two counties here....even with last minute switching of polling places and all kinds of other dirty tricks by the republicans.

Our local democratic party was running Pat Casey for congress. But Donnie Fowler left them to include Gore in a coordinated campaing effort. D'OH! Casey is anti-choice and was running AWAY from Gore.
There was no Gore office, you could not volunteer for Gore, there was no Gore coordinator in the area.

Gore came to town twice and landed at the airport. That was great, all the local pols showed up to suck up some Gore voters energy..but as far as promoting him on the ticket, it didn't happen.

A few days before the election some woman from Boston named Barbara took it on herself to come here and try to set up a Gore headquarters in one of the empty office spaces down town. She and I and a few woman from the local planned parenthood did our best to get signs out and do some phone banking.

Previous to that I must have called and e-mailed and signed up on the Gore web site 15 times...but no call back from Donnie Fowler's office. Now I know how to go over his head and around his incompetance and get something going here, but then I didn't.

Think about how easily a good ground operation could have given us NH. Then florida wouldn't even have mattered.

Fowler is the kind of guy who has used his father's name to get some opportuinities, but he has done nothing impressive with those opportunities. He is the kind of guy people with even less political clout would be impressed with . But the party is not going to take a chance on this guy unless they want to continue losing.

[BurtWorm]

1. It doesn't matter how good or bad Fowler is, Cheswick.

It just matters that he's not Dean. :eyes:

[Cheswick2.0]

2. Yes I know

[genius]

18. This is why a lot of people don't like Dean. His supporter always

attack others. I'm not backing Fowler but if I posted a thread with Dean's true positions, I'd get attacked for telling the truth. Dean will most likely be the chairman and it's time for his people to come off the attack.

[lyonn]

31. I'm a Dean supporter

Not knowing much about Fowler except thought his Dad was former DNC (right?) he impressed me during the recent debate on C-span. None of the other candidates seemed right for the job. But, what is wrong with making comments here concerning his ability? Are these people hacking on him only because they like Dean? I like to hear peoples opinions if it appears they are sincere.

[IndianaGreen]

33. Donnie Fowler's record is a valid topic for examination and criticism

The DLC thinks that it alone can attack someone they don't like, and like the GOP, they feel that their candidates are beyond criticism.

No wonder they sound so much like Republicans!

[Radical Activist]

4. Isn't that the explanation for this post?

It doesn't matter how good or bad Fowler is. He isn't Dean so he must be trashed. I never had any idea who Fowler's Father was until I heard Dean supporters on this board bring it up.

[sandnsea]

6. It's disgusting

I don't see how these people think this kind of behavior is going to unify the party. OTOH, I still think it would be the kick of my life to watch them eat crow while Dean moves further and further to the right to appease all the rural and southern Democrats who will pitch a fit every time he even squeaks something left wing. A Republican in Vermont is a wild-eyed liberal in Alabama. I still don't think Dean gets that. But it looks like his turns coming!

[valis]

11. I agree...

Let's see what happens, all I can say...

[liberalnurse]

30. I believe it is reasonable to

discuss each candidate to the fullest extent. Example; We expected this of our Congress when Condi and Gonzo were nominated....So, we must also do this with our DNC candidates. Exposing warts and buffing out the wrinkles through vigorous debate and discussion is the only way to filter through the veil of politics and select the right leader.

We really are in deep dung as a party today. We need a dynamic leader and to find this brave soul, we have to let go of this territorial bickering and take an honest look at all of the nominee's.

Jumping on one another, whining and kicking about the keyboard instead of truly discussing the issues is a shameful travesty....and is essentially impotent. Get with the program because the Democratic Party needs sincere support, not vacuum packed cheerleaders.

Let Cheswick open the floor to discussion......we need it!

[sandnsea]

42. Discussing is one thing

Bullshit attacks disguised as discussion are another. You act as if you don't know Cheswick has a Dean agenda. Then you have the nerve to say let go of the territorial bickering??? Once again, it's only the Dean supporters who can't let go of territorial bickering and look at candidates objectively and honestly. I don't even care who wins, except I don't want Rosenberg or Roemer. But I certainly know biased flame fests when I see them.

[liberalnurse]

45. I really love being a Democrat.

I'd go as far to say; it's in my blood. I really want us to be a bit more cohesive. We who are committed to the Democratic philosophy have an unspoken duty to provide the example for the newcomer. If we waste energy on internal bickering, bitch-slapping, pointing fingers and flipping the bird at each other then we ultimately become beaten from within....it has no power... thus we are defeated before we even begin.

Each and everyone of us can take the role and responsibility to set a higher standard.......We have choices. Voice our differences, hammer out a plan and focus on regaining our lost liberties. I am really disgusted and frightened of this administration. I will not support impotent,internal feuding as it takes away the opportunity to fight them as a united front.

Lets debate and choose a leader.....we have lots of work ahead of us and we need each other now.

[sandnsea]

48. Why are you telling me?

Did I post a slam against a candidate in an effort to build another one up? That's not building cohesion. I think your words would be better directed at the people who are actually causing division.

[liberalnurse]

51. I 'm telling you, because I thought you were talking to me......

and were awaiting an answer.....engaged in discussion.

My expressed thoughts can apply to all who cherish our liberties and wish to regain our Democratic autonomy. I'm canvasing for committment......

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RetroLounge]

43. Wahhh freaking Wahhhhh

but at least you're consistent...

:eyes:

RL

[LittleClarkie]

23. I'm leaning toward a shot of Dean, with a Rosenberg chaser

And I don't particularly like Fowler. Fowler is trying to claim that this is now a 2-man race between him and Dean, ignoring Frost. Not to mention that Cheswick's story matches someone else's story in Michigan (Julie, someone said?). So, Fowler strikes me as a dweeb at the very least.

Nevertheless the fact that it's Cheswick telling the story does detract from its effectiveness in my eyes. I was into it until I noticed the poster, then I wondered. Is Fowler really that much of a threat to Dean? Allah forbid. I do think Fowler would be a mistake. A big one.

[elsiesummers]

40. I like Dean and Rosenberg, liked Webb.

I have seen them all on cspan.

I have some concerns that the media will make everything about Dean and will manage to publicize his one ill worded remark and miss the message. I don't have any concerns about Dean's ability to do the job - it's just the way the media treats him that worries me. He's sort of a double edged sword. Anything Dean says will gain attention and, oh yeah, anything Dean says will gain attention. Let's hope he uses this ability to be heard wisely.

Rosenberg is highly articulate and impressed me greatly (on cspan) as a good message bearer for Democrats.

Roehmer was really plastic so he worried me.

What I saw of Frost didn't stand out as either good or bad - no screw ups but nothing impressive, either.

I liked Webb but he has withdrawn, although he went too far with his pandering to women.

Fowler seems like someone who is running not for the job but to gain recognition by running - and there is nothing wrong with that. He was the least impressive (seems nervous and giddy) candidate of the nine who threw their hat in the ring, from the cspan forum.

[Walt Starr]

5. Yup, it's all about ABD just like the primaries

and that has forced me squarely into the NBD corner.

[valis]

12. I think you are right about this.

[ShaneGR]

3. I seem to remember Gore won Pennsylvania.....

So how is that bad? And everyone I've talked to in Michigan says Fowler did a fantastic job. Why is it necessary for Dean people to tear down other candidates in order to win? You tried that in Iowa, it didn't work.

[KoKo]

9. One of our DU'ers, Julie knows about Fowler and has given you info

yet you keep coming on every thread talking about Fowler's successes. Why don't you start your own post and list Fowler's sucesses with links from articles about them. Then maybe you would be able to convince some folks here to support Fowler. :shrug: Absent that..you just seem to be "spamming."

[sandnsea]

14. rotlmao

Oh my god. Somebody posts something positive about somebody besides Dean and now it's spamming???

Julie didn't post anything that I haven't heard from people from every single state in the country. There is a problem with respect in this party. That's a fact. But it comes from alot of directions and certainly isn't restricted to Donnie Fowler.

[Kahuna]

21. So we should all judge Fowler based upon what "Julia" says??

I don't even know Julia. :eyes:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

10. It sounds like Pa. was run badly in 2000

from what the original poster is saying. It certainly didn't stack up to the 2004 effort, but who knew how drastically things would change (and for the worse) in 4 years? :shrug:

[KittyWampus]

7. Here's A Kos Thread About Him

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/20/20127/013

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. Luzerne and Lackawanna lost votes for us this year

And I don't think their impact is as great as it used to be.
I did a complete analysis of PA 2000/2004. Our future is in the 'Philly burbs. The map shows counties where we gained support in dark gray. The lighter gray where Kerry got less than Gore by 1% or less.



The full results are listed below. Lackawanna became a Dem liability this year -a 5% loss of total share. But compare the totals and improvements of Chester, Delaware, Berks, and Montgomery counties. These counties saved our butts this year in Pa.

http://home.earthlink.net/~nashionale/id4.html

[DemDogs]

13. Were there other issues in Luzerne and Lackawanna? (n/t)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

16. Besides terrorism? I don't know

It's not fair to say that they "lost" votes because turnout was up everywhere. The problem in these places was that Republican/Bush turnout FAR exceeded the Democratic GOTV efforts. For example: Lackawanna had Kerry getting 1,834 more voters than Gore in 2000, but Bush got 9,466 more in 2004! That is more than 5 times Kerry's improvement!!!
Such miraculous GOTV performances by Bush were replicated across the country on Nov. 2. I attribute it mostly to Bush's striking fear deep into the minds of the sheeple.

[TeacherCreature]

17. I don't believe that those are the final numbers from Pa

Those are not the numbers I saw for Pa. Are you sure you have not reversed them? I am sure that Kerry took about 56 or 57 percent in Lackawanna county. You want to recheck the numbers for the whole state and let us know?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

19. read my post #16

If Bush picks up 5 times as many new voters as we do in every county then we lose.
It is a bad trend- even though we won Lackawanna, our total vote share was down 5%- from 62.1% to 57.1%. Translate that statewide from 2000 and we lose Pa. this time.
Whatever the reason, we cannot afford to have this happen again.

and these are probably not the final Pa. numbers. I don't know why you think they are reversed.

[TeacherCreature]

20. I think they are reversed because the numbers for Lackawanna county

are wrong. Unless I have read the chart wrong I do believe that Kerry got 56 percent in Lackawanna county. Is that the number you have assigned kerry on this chart and I am somehow reading it wrong?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

24. Kerry got 57.1% but it was a 5% loss from 2000

the upper number is total share and under it is change from 2000.
I apologize, I admit the chart can be hard to read.

[DemOperative]

15. When I met this guy he seemed capable

but his subordinates complained loudly of his glory-hog tendencies, in that they did the brilliant work he was getting credit for.

Likewise his preformance in Michigan last election left me wondering how far he would be getting if his father wasn't Don Fowler, former National Democratic Party Chair.

Hopefully he learned from old Don; who was a master of the smoke filled room genre of old school politics.

[ClarkUSA]

22. If one were to say Dean's performance in the 2004 primaries was BAD

As to how many states he came in #1 & #2, should we all just say that it is a sign of harbinger of what is to come for Democratic candidates in 2006 and 2008?

Besides, Fowler was National Field Ops in 2000 and Gore won. It doesn't matter by how much. And if it's true that he "hogged" the glory, then he certainly isn't the only one who seems to take credit for his staff's ideas and work (see Joe Trippi).

This is silly. Everybody left in the race is worthy of being DNC Chair (please, just not Roemer). Some are more experienced than others and some are better at certain things.

Truthfully, Fowler has more hands-on strategic experience than Dean and Frost has more than either Fowler and Dean. But Dean is more charismatic than either Frost or Fowler.

At some point, whoever is DNC Chair will be working with all the others in the race and so will we if we stay active in the Party. This constant NBD trashing doesn't bode well for Party unity but perhaps that's not a long-range concern here.

Just call me ABR.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[w4rma]

26. Please please lets not get into the negative attacking flame wars. (nt)

[propagandafreegal]

27. So, no one can say anything negative about a Dem on this board!

This is ridiculous. This person had personal experience re: Donny and no one wants to hear it? Sheeesh!

[LittleClarkie]

28. No matter who the Dem is, he has a supporter on this board somewhere

therefore flak is inevitable.

[IndianaGreen]

34. People like Al From & Co are not Dems

They have moved so deeply into the Dark Side that they are indistinguishable from a PNAC neocon.

[lwin]

29. A Dean supporter wants to throw stones about a bad performance?

You've got a short memory, don't you? It wasn't even a year ago that Dean got his ass kicked by Kerry in the primaries.

[Capn Sunshine]

32. Kerry had a LOT of help

and it still didn't get the brass ring did, it.

One things for sure, with Dean we wouldn't have had those Swiftboat Veterans or anything else related to Vietnam that wasted half the campiagn.

[lwin]

35. A lot of help?

Not significantly from you that I noticed.

Kerry barely lost the election. And yes, the swift boaters never would have come up if Dean ran, because he never served in Vietnam, so what's your point? That we shouldn't run anyone who has served their country? Would you like to pile on Max Cleland now for good measure? Dean would have lost the election by far more than Kerry...Rove would have had a field day.

[IndianaGreen]

36. "Kerry barely lost the election"? In what universe are 3M votes "barely"?

Kerry barely lost the election

Kerry lost the election by 3 million votes and Democrats lost more seats in Congress and in the State houses. There is nothing "barely" about that. This was a decisive defeat for us!

[ClarkUSA]

37. He was Diebolded by 60,000 votes in OH...thanks to Ken Blackwell.

What determined the winner were electoral college votes came down to OH.

[IndianaGreen]

38. Kerry did not challenge the Ohio electors, Barbara Boxer did

If Kerry did not challenge, he has annointed Bush as the winner!

[ClarkUSA]

41. I was just referring to the facts about the election being close

Certainly I can't dispute what you're saying. I was very active in the recount effort.

[lwin]

39. Percentage wise, yes...it was VERY close.

And I can't speak for Indiana, but in California, we didn't lose ANY seats.

I am so sick and tired of the holier than thou Dean people wailing on Kerry. Their attitude of "Dean is the ONLY one to save the party, he's the only one that understands grassroots, blah, blah, blah", and the implication that anyone who is less than thrilled with him is somehow not a "real" Democrat, is only polarizing the party and driving good people away. There are a lot of terrific people that belong to DFA, but I don't have any use for the ones who babble on, yet don't do the work, join the local Dem clubs to bring about change, run for office, organize fundraisers or even show up at their Assembly district elections. I call that talking the talk, but not walking the walk.

[JNelson6563]

44. Let's look at this, shall we?

I am so sick and tired of the holier than thou Dean people wailing on Kerry.
Well I am a Deainie but I don't consider myself "holier" than anyone.

Their attitude of "Dean is the ONLY one to save the party, he's the only one that understands grassroots, blah, blah, blah", and the implication that anyone who is less than thrilled with him is somehow not a "real" Democrat, is only polarizing the party and driving good people away.

A couple of friends and political allies that I love and admire most didn't back Dean. I find the bolded part so interesting, here's why:

There are a lot of terrific people that belong to DFA,

Thanks, that's mighty white of ya.

but I don't have any use for the ones who babble on, yet don't do the work, join the local Dem clubs to bring about change, run for office, organize fundraisers or even show up at their Assembly district elections. I call that talking the talk, but not walking the walk.

Well since I have been deep in the trenches here in my corner of the world and am expanding my efforts to district level (as in I will likely be the chair of my entire CD within the next few weeks) I will assume you aren't referring to me, even though I post in favor of Dean pretty frequently.

Where the bolded part of your message ties in with this last paragraph I quote from you is this: It is only on DU and similar forums where supporters of various candidates just cannot abide each other. If you were involved in the real world you would know that. Out here in the real world we act more like grown ups, disregard our minor differences in order to focus on our common goals.

So, why not tell us what it is you do in the real world effort so we can look to you as an inspirational example?

Julie

[lwin]

46. Yes, let's...

<i>If you were involved in the real world you would know that. Out here in the real world we act more like grown ups, disregard our minor differences in order to focus on our common goals.</i>

Obviously since I don't spend much time on DU and no idea who you are, JNelson, I wasn't addressing you specifically. I was however addressing some who post here, that I do know in real life. Maybe all the DFA people in your neck of the woods "disregard the minor differences", but there are some here that did jack shit during the Kerry Campaign, and continue to spout off, making snarky comments about how "we lost" and don't make any real effort to participate with Dems who aren't Dean supporters. And you can climb down off your high horse now, as I too was deep in the trenches in the GRASSROOTS campaign in my county. I was also just elected to the local Dem organization and Assembly District, to continue to serve and work for Dem causes.

I'm glad for you that everyone gets along and focuses on the common goals in your area. I was simply pointing out that was not the case everywhere.

[JNelson6563]

50. Your blanket didn't fit as intended

I believe I mentioned that I figured you weren't referring to me, you musta missed that part.

I'm glad for you that everyone gets along and focuses on the common goals in your area. I was simply pointing out that was not the case everywhere.

No, you were insisting that it was Deanies who were driving good Dems away fromthe party. I told you that my real life experience with people around my state was nothing like what goes on at these forums and how old primary crap didn't play a role in real life politics.

You still seem to be missing that point and that's the primary reason I question your activity level.

Lastly, you do not know who did what and nor do I. For one who asserts I am on a "high horse" you are being rather soap-boxy yourself.

Julie

[ClarkUSA]

52. Congratulations, Iwin, on being elected to office

That's quite an accomplishment and considering you don't have many posts racked up, I can see you keep very busy. And it sounds as if you know what you're talking about.

Keep talking the talk and walking the walk.

[TeacherCreature]

57. There are lots of good Clark supporters in DFA--including my PA group

There only seems to be a problem here at DU.

Strange.

[dolstein]

47. Newsflash: Dean's 2004 performance wasn't so hot either

NT

[Melynn]

49. Fowler is just a party hack

Democrats aren't going to win elections as "Repub lite". With Dean the party will have a person with fresh ideas which I believe the electoral will be receptive to.

With Dean as DNC chairman the Dems will: :kick:

[Jackson4Gore]

53. You should be ashamed

Where do you even get the idea that Donnie is a party "hack". It amazes me how much some of you bash other democrats. No wonder we are losing all the time now.

[Clarks_Babe]

55. What kind of adult man still calls himself Donnie

Maybe I shouldn't care, but how old is this man?

[Jackson4Gore]

56. What's the big deal?

His father's name was Don so he goes by Donnie. I know alot of people named Donald who go by Donny or Donnie. By the way he is 37.

[TeacherCreature]

58. I'm not gonna touch this one with a ten-foot pole...

Poor little Donnie.

[CWebster]

60. Culturally Southern

I have no problem with it. You shouldn't either. That's the problem.

[CWebster]

59. I think he has a future

I like him. He is sharp, edgey, a bit of an upstart, devoted, determined, young, energetic, ruthlessly ambitious and Southern. A great asset to the party's future.