Senators Obama & Salazar: Two Dismal Debuts

[Itsthetruth]

CounterPunch
January 26, 2005

Have the Democrats Learned Nothing?
Salazar and Obama: Two Dismal Debuts
By NIRANJAN RAMAKRISHNAN

Amidst the shambles of the 2004 elections, there were two spots of hope for the Senate Democrats -- the seats they had wrested in Illinois and Colorado.

Both Barack Obama (D-Ill) and Ken Salazar (D-Co) had excellent opportunities this week to strike a blow for America. They appear, instead, to have limited themselves to a narrow view of their roles. At a crucial time, both failed to stand up and be counted -- one sparklingly, and the other bumbling.

The lone black member of the current senate could not bring himself to vote against Condoleezza Rice for Secretary of State. Obama, who took only a minute to take apart Condi Rice's high rhetoric conflating tyranny and terror, stopped short of ascribing mendacity, and even if he thought doing so was discourteous, there was no compulsion to end up voting for her confirmation anyway.

As to the ponderous Salazar, who reminds one of nothing so much as the unlamented Phil Gramm, he discovered himself more Hispanic than Democratic at a crucial juncture; where was the need to chaperone Alberto "What Geneva Conventions?" Gonzales to the latter's Senate hearing? But Salazar showed that his obsequious behavior is not based on race. All the President's men (and women), regardless of either ineptitude or wilful malfeasance, can expect to receive the same elaborate courtesy from the newest "can't we all just get along" Democrat, whose feared propensity to become the next Nighthorse-Campbell assumed greater momentum the moment he opened his mouth during the Rice Confirmation debate in the Senate. Salazar intoned the usual platitudes to exalt Rice's 'unique' qualifications: "Highly qualified, inspiring life-story, long experience, high intelligence...".

But you can hardly blame the newest Democratic senators when those far senior compromise on such vital matters. Lieberman -- no surprise -- declared his strong support for Rice and urged other senators to do so. As soon as Gonzales was mentioned for Attorney General, Patrick Leahy gave an avuncular nod and a good word for the nominee. And after searching questions which elicited either unsatisfactory, evasive or untrue answers, senators like Biden, Dodd -- and Sarbanes voted to support Rice's confirmation.

Instead of persuading Republicans that such nominees are an insult to the highest offices in the country, so many Democrats want to be epitomes of false propriety and phony political correctness, but in what a cause Ò and at what a cost?

With this the Democratic attitude, no wonder Bush bears more than a passing resemblance to Alfred E.Newman. And well might he echo that icon, "What me Worry?"

http://www.counterpunch.com/ramakrishnan01262005.html

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JI7]

4. yup

[LoZoccolo]

6. It was the source for the Haitian man-boobs story. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Seventhson was a freeper provocateur who unmasked himself after the Kerry

loss....


He said Wes Clark gave Haitian men man titties...


I'm one of the few duers who told that son of a bitch to his face he was full of shit...

[LoZoccolo]

11. He managed to waste my time about twice.

The first was something about how the pattern they used to print the antennae on these RFID tags were the re-appearance of the swastika in the corporate sphere, even though they weren't really a swastika, and if it had been important to them to make it a swastika, they would have done it.

The other time, I can't really remember what the topic was, but I remember he defended himself by saying he was an attourney in a bunch of counterintelligence cases which he had to keep secret (despite the fact that a lot of people who were victimized by COINTELPRO wanted coverage of their cases to make people aware of abuses by the FBI).

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. He Just Wanted DUers To Endorse A Lot Of Tin Foil Theories

Which Unfortunately Some Did...


And he was a freeper provaceteur....


In his grand finale he private messaged several DUers and told them he wished they get AIDS...

[DemDogs]

15. Ought be perfect for DU, slaughtering our own (n/t)

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. Give them a fucking break.

It's a new job. How many people here did something incredibly bold in your first month at a new job? How many people here have EVER done anything bold at their jobs?

[Itsthetruth]

9. I Did!

I tried to organize a labor union at my very first job .... and also my second job!

I was fired. But, I don't take crap and would do it all over again.

And later when I worked at a unionized job I helped organize a two-week slowdown which helped force the company to come to terms with us.

So what prevented Obama from voting against Rice? That's hardly a risky and bold act at all! Perhaps he just doesn't want to fight the Republican party and finds nothing wrong with voting for an extreme right-wing reactionary.

Would you have voted for Rice if you were a Senator?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

14. Personally, no. I also personally don't give a fuck what people think.

But I fully understand why others, especially Senators, would.

[Itsthetruth]

16. I Don't Understand. Enlighten Me.

I don't understand how any Senator, especially one claiming to be a "liberal" defender of human rights, could vote for someone that endorses torture and criminal activity as C. Rice has.

Perhaps you could explain to me what in the world could motivate someone to vote that way.

I was pleased that 13 Senators did vote against her.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

20. Go to your local college and take poli sci 101.

They will tell you, "When seeking a national office or looking to keep a job in hostile territory, it will often be necessary to hold your nose and vote for things when they are likely to pass anyway. Your "no" vote means virtually nothing and will not win you any friends for future elections while the people who voted for you before probably will again anyway."

[Itsthetruth]

24. Who Needs Right-Wing "Friends"?

So who's looking for "friends" among right-wing thugs and reactionaires?

If that's what colleges are really teaching young people about "practical" politics it's no wonder this country is in so bad shape.

Perhaps you can tell us what great achievements have been accomplished by caving in to right-wingers for fear of alienating them and their supporters.

Not a single piece of major progressive social legislation or political reforms have ever been won by adapting to our enemies.

Perhaps some alleged "liberal" politicians don't want to rock the boat in corporate America because their funding would be cut off. Do you think that might be their motivation for refusing to take on big business interests? That's certainly practical politics .... plus it won't hurt your wallet and opens or keeps the doors open to lucative business relationships. And that's expecially true for newcomers on the political scene who have not made their fortunes yet.

In most cases it's about money my friend. Just money and personal enrichment. The corporate interests have much to offer, big rewards, for those that play along.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

28. I'm not talking about other politicians as friends. I'm talking voters.

And yeah, a state that voted for Bush like Colorado might not like it if the new Democrat got in the way every time Bush wants to do something. Especially with his own cabinet.

So why piss off people when you're not going to get your way anyhow? It doesn't make any sense for Salazaar to vote against Condi (and I'll save you the suspense, he won't vote against Gonzales either.) And if Obama has national desires, it really doesn't make sense to step on toes in an ultimately meaningless cabinet nomination vote if your vote isn't a deciding one. You save that for when it counts (ie. Supreme Court).

[WI_DEM]

3. I don't expect big things from Salazar

I think he will be a Dino, and you don't necessarily need to be a Dino to win in Colorado--Gary Hart had a solid liberal record and managed to win twice (he probably would have won a third term but didn't run).

[rockymountaindem]

21. Colorado has made a major change since the days of Hart.

All the ultra conservatives from all over the country seem to have moved here. Back then Colorado wasn't the home of Focus on the Family and we didn't have Colorado for Family Values to contend with as far as I know. Gary Hart probably would have a hard time getting elected in Colorado today.

[paulk]

32. what rockymountaindem said

Neither Gary Hart or Tim Wirth could get elected in Colorado right now.

[Walt Starr]

5. This article is spot on

We'll if Obama has the guts to vote against Gonzales.

[Itsthetruth]

12. Guts?

Guts??!!!! It takes "guts" to vote against an advocate of torture?

Your comment just demonstrates how far to the right politics has gone in this nation, in the leadership of both parties!

[Walt Starr]

23. Precisely

which is why I'm a hair's breadth away from packing it in over the phony two party system.

[BlueInRed]

8. Salazar is better than having a Republican

I can't speak to Obama's performance, but I know we are lucky to even have a seat from Colorado, and I never expected him to be a straight down the line Democrat. Unless he goes off the edge of the mountain, like Zell "I want to challenge you to a duel" Miller, I'm cutting Salazar some slack.

Now, as for Democrats in true blue states, I fully expect them to shape up.

[mirror]

10. yup

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

30. Finally some pragmatism.

And also Obama probably has national aspirations and doesn't want to become the new Ted Kennedy just yet.

[bread_and_roses]

40. What's better about a D who votes like an R? (n/t)

[BlueInRed]

46. If we had more of those, we'd control the Senate & set the agenda

You'd rather have one less Democrat in the Senate and one more Republican? You'd rather us be that much farther from regaining control? You'd rather have another very conservative Republican to walk in lock step with EVERYTHING Bush does? Good grief. And why rag on him when there were lots of Senators from BLUE states who didn't vote against Rice.

[Placebo]

17. I'm disappointed in my senator...

but what are ya gonna do? :shrug:

[Itsthetruth]

18. Give Them Money?

Give them more money for their next election campaign?

[Placebo]

19. Probably.

I'm not expecting perfection, but it would have been nice to see Obama take a stand, and more of the democratic senators for that matter. Oh well.

[cindyw]

22. Shit like this post and article does more to damage the party than the GOP

nt

[Itsthetruth]

25. I'm Sorry

I'm sorry. I and others should have applauded the votes for C. Rice. Would that have been better?

And heaven forbid anyone dare criticize the actions of any Democratic politician who goes along with the Republican party or supports Bush's presidential appointments.

That's damn near treason! Yup. We should just keep out mouths shut and go along with any and all actions taken by any Democratic politician that aide the Bush government.

That would pretty much drive anyone out of the Democratic Party who wants to fight the Bush government.

[cindyw]

26. Everything you just said was bullshit. I simply think divide and conquer

works much better when the conquerees seem so eager to judge their fellow democrats on so little record.

[TankLV]

43. Shit like OBAMA's vote does more to damage the party than the GOP!

DINO's in training.

If not now, when?

If this is not important, and so far NOTHING is to YOU people, then just what is important enough to take a principled honerable stand instead of this repuke-lite shit?

I am TOTALLY disappointed in Obama and Salazar so far. Totally.

I am however, pleasantly surprised at Reid's performance and BOXER is my hero.

Boxer's statements and stands should be the "litmus test" for continued support for the pink tutu dems amongst us.

That's how I feel.

Don't like it? TOUGH!

And don't spew shit like "but we'll lose votes" or "we'll lose elections" crap - because WE'VE ALREADY BEEN LOSING A LOT OF IMPORTANT ELECTIONS ALREADY!

Voting for a torturer and a liar who has DIRECTLY caused the deaths of thousands of our soldiers in an UNNECESSARY war.

[cindyw]

47. Don't give me this "You People" shit. You don't know me and yet you are

assigning some belief system to me. You are attacking me as if I am this imaginary person you concocted from all the posts you did not agree with on the DU. You are acting as if I said ""but we'll lose votes" or "we'll lose elections". I most certainly did not. I made a specific point on judging people so soon. We have to start showing a little faith and be slow to judge. Those judgements that are formed over time will be more true. Humility in the face of something great, like the overall goals of the Dem party is worth it. And don't attack me as if I am defending DINO's like Lieberman. I am not. I am defending myself and people like me who are attacked because we are willing to with hold judgement for a time. I refuse to help the GOP by splintring my party so easily.

[RatRacer]

27. I still like Obama

I think he has the right attitude to lead and a willingness to find middle ground where he can. Why immediately take a shot at the administration over something you know if going to happen anyway?

[Itsthetruth]

31. Middle Ground?

And what do you think the "middle ground" for Democrats on social security ought to be?

You know. Don't give the Bush government "everything" they want on social security, just find a "common ground" with the Republicans on destroying social security. That will only give them "some" of what they want.

Wonderful strategy indeed. It worked real well on the Patriot Act, the invasion of Iraq, NAFTA, etc.,

So tell me what the "middle ground" is on social security. We sure don't want to go out on the limb as "left-wing lunatics" defending social security .... do we now?

Common ground!

Unity!

Bi-partisanship to get things done!

Hogwash!

The Democratic Party ought to propose lowering the retirement age back to 65 and a propose a significant increase in benefits. Oh my. How can that be done? By ending the cap on earnings! Tax the rich! That's way out in left field. The whole concept of making the rich pay taxes is just to "radical" and the Republicans will never go for that.

So what are the chances the Democratic Party will propose those kinds of "reforms" that will actually benefit working people and the elderly? You tell me.

[returnable]

29. Gee, you're right. Maybe I should've voted for Keyes...

...uh, no.

[Itsthetruth]

35. Keyes?

Did Keyes get 18 or was it 20 votes?

So Obama is being real careful because he's afraid of losing to Keyes or some other Republican nut in 6 years. Sure. He better run to the right or Keyes will get him! I don't think he's worried about losing office at all.

I think Obama is striving for recognition, respectability and acceptance .... and those corporate dollars sure won't hurt if he has presidential ambitions down the road! That's real politics in America, not some fairytale story. Obama has ambitions. And he's learning to play the political game to advance his personal interests and fortunes.

[returnable]

38. Were you even familiar with Obama's record in Illinois?

Seems to me the people piling on Obama now didn't know anything about the man's politics to begin with.

If you feel burned by this vote, it's because you hopped on the bandwagon without researching the man at all. Obama kicked Keyes' ass in a large part because of his history of reaching across the aisle while in the Illinois senate. This vote is very much in character for him.

Sorry if it didn't fit your idealized vision of him. I'm sure he's all busted up about that.

[TexasSissy]

45. We know something about Obama's politics, all right. We know..

he thinks Condi Rice would make a good Sec'y of State. Nuff said on that issue.

I will not be voting for Obama in the future for anything, but since I don't live in his state, that'll only be relevant if he runs for Prez or V.P.

[paulk]

33. there are not many serious posters here on DU

who consider "Counterpunch" a credible source. That often extends to the poster, especially when they have a low post count. Like you do.

And extra especially when the thread seems aimed at causing division between Democrats.

[Itsthetruth]

36. Unite In Support Of Bush Appointments?

The only people creating divisions among Democrats are those Democratic Party politicians who aide the Bush government.

So please explain why you think we should have united in support of the Democratic Party majority in the Senate when they voted for C. Rice? Unity, unity, unity! I suppose we should condemn those 13 Senators who voted against the Rice nomination because they "hurt" the Democratic majority in the Senate. That was damn divisive!

Remember. We must always keep our mouths shut and unite behind those Democrats who vote for Bush's policies and/or his appointments, otherwise we're being divisive and making it difficult for any Democrats to find "common ground" with the Bush government.

[quinnox]

34. Wonderful, two DINOS are the new senators

If these two vote for Bush's policies it will be a shame.

[bread_and_roses]

37. For those who want "practical" politics and unity....

...How about staying on message? How about a unified Dem voice that lying to the public on Nat Sec and torture are NOT acceptable? Is not the duty of the Senate to "advise" the President? Well, how about a unified Dem voice with THAT advice for the pompous fraudulent little puppet in occupancy?

Instead, we get the message: let's just tolerate a LITTLE torture, and let's just give up SOME people's civil rights, and let's just sell out - let's see - women's SS, after all, they unjustly live longer than men, and and and...no wonder people "don't see any difference" between the parties, no wonder so many ended up thinking Kerry a mealy-mouthed weasler unworthy of trust.

I really don't understand the apologists for the Dem yes votes on Rice and the forthcoming apologists for the Dem yes votes on Gonzalez. They had nothing to lose, they are NOT going to get some swing vote because they voted for these two. Those to whom a vote for Rice and Gonzalez matter that much are never going to vote for a Dem. So many here admire the Republicans discipline and on-message unity - so why are not the Dems ON MESSAGE that torture and lying to the public and the Congress on Nat Sec are unacceptable????

[LittleClarkie]

39. Counterpunch. What is our opinion of Counterpunch articles, folks?

I must say mine is not favorable. They are like NewsMax for the left to me.

[Guaranteed]

41. Look, I'm giving Obama time, but I won't be giving him much.

And, no, I'm not that impressed so far. He'd better hurry the fuck up.

[propagandafreegal]

42. word. and word to the original poster nm

[Cocoa]

44. Counterpunch trashed Wellstone too

actually, smeared more than trashed.