Did Kerry Roll Over or...

[Jack_Dawson]

is he still "covertly planning something"?

:eyes:

What a schmuck. I knew once Wes was out we were done. Only General Clark could inspire me to call 200 strangers in Tennessee.

:beer:

[Skittles]

1. see, I have no idea

and as a diehard Dem that is a problem

[Jack_Dawson]

2. I have an idea - he rolled over

[LittleClarkie]

6. Rolled over what?

Rolled over Beethoven?

What is this "roll over" of which you speak?

Personally I think you've got a false dicotomy going on there. It's not as binary as all that.

I think he got gamed. I don't think he did the "skull and bones" thing. I don't think he's necessarily got anything up his sleeve. It's possible his best investigating days are behind him, and that his tinfoil hat doesn't fit as well as it used to.

I think he's slowly becoming more aware of what actually happened in the election, but he sounds like he thinks he did indeed lose. He gets the suppression idea, based on his MLK speech. But I don't know how much of the fraud idea he gets. He does "get it" enough to still be involved in a lawsuit in Ohio.

I believe him when he says he's going to fight for election reform. I believe he is a man of integrity. Of course, others disagree. That's fine. That's democracy.

They have a God-given American right to be wrong if they want to be ;-)

[Skip Intro]

5. Yep. But I don't think that completely explains election 2004.

That was part of it, and he should have faced that perception and dealt with it and gotten it out of the way at the first attack from the right.

But I still can't help thinking that he did what he thought would win (dethrone bush), and its possible he was right (if indeed the election tampering accusations against the bush pigs are right).

If buscho won this election only because of the rigging efforts, then Kerry not only won, he won and he was right about how to play it all.

But I don't know where he stands, specifically on many issues. His thoughts and ideals are another thing.

But then, who the hell knows where bush stands? Other than downwind of middle America.

[LittleClarkie]

7. My battlecry: Karen Hughes was RIGHT!

In which case, talk about what Kerry did wrong and what we need to change to win is semi-useless.

If you believe in the fraud, then the answers are "Not a damn thing that made a difference," and just plain "not a damn thing."

[ClarkUSA]

3. Roll over

We'll never really know otherwise. I was stunned at the quick concession. It made me feel sick.

Amen on the General inspiration. :toast:

[FreedomAngel82]

Remember also

that the concession isn't legally binding and is mainly just for show. At least there wasn't any of that "sore loser" and "whining" crap.

[Jack_Dawson]

8. It's not whining if you win the state

Had Kerry even called attention to it...the media would've been all over it. They were waiting...anticipating a contested election. But Kerry was like, "aww gee I guess I lost."

Then TWO MONTHS LATER actually talks about the lack of polling stations in Metro Ohio. I mean...the guy is fucking weak that's all I gotta say.

Great debater though. Won all three. Not that that matters now.

[LittleClarkie]

12. The media would have been all over it, is right

And oh, so sympathetic. Yessir, we would have gotten the right kind of coverage from our "liberal" media, that's for sure. They can always be counted on to tell the truth.

Riiiiight.

They would have been spinning like the Tasmanian Devil. Just put 2000 in a blender and press puree.

[LittleClarkie]

9. I still don't understand what was so quick about it

It was slow compared to concessions that have been happening all my life.

It was only quick in comparison to 2000.

I still don't see what waiting would have changed.

And, based on the Raw Story article, I think Kerry got gamed by some of his own people in Ohio. Well, actually, it appears that not all of them were "his." I think he was being worked against by some of the people in his own party in Ohio. That would explain reports of lawyers who were working against BBV.

I just really think Kerry got gamed.

[imenja]

4. covertly planning what?

The only thing he is planning is his 2008 campaign. It's February 1st. You can't still be waiting for the Second Coming?

[Jack_Dawson]

10. It was Sarcasm

Sorry it didn't translate. I'm just really, really disappointed in the Democrats as a whole. It's the party of weakness.

[kerrygoddess]

11. Poor poor you

Stand up and fight and stop complaining!

[Jack_Dawson]

13. Fight for who?

Kerry? Dude doesn't fight for me.

Wake me in three years.

[kerrygoddess]

18. Fight for yourself!

Fight for your rights! This country is about We The People! It's not about rolling over and going back to sleep. You want someone to stand up for your rights, stand yourself up first!

[LittleClarkie]

14. It's like watching fans of the 49ers as they fell apart

Geez, the 49ers were annoying on their way down. "No fair. The refs weren't on our side. We could have won if Young has been healthy...wah...wah...wah." Not productive. At all.

But then, we are the Whiner 49ers (I know, officially we're the whiner 48ers, but that doesn't sound as good, so I do some extreme rounding up)

Stop whining and start building the team back up.

[imenja]

15. yeah, maybe there is hope

if Dean becomes DNC chair, we won't be rolling over when it comes to elections.
You're right about sarcasm not coming across well in print. It's happened to me a number of times. Also, I have seen a number of posts where people have made that same point seriously.

[Old and In the Way]

16. Well, I guess we (Americans) haven't suffered enough yet.

Clearly, way too many people still voted for Bush....at least enough to make it close enough to steal. But 3 bits of good news in all of this:

(1) Bush and the Republicans own the mess. No blaming Kerry for the consequences of Republican policies that'll be coming home to roost of the next couple of years.

(2) The issue of election fraud, while discussed here for years, is now mainstream with Democrats. Hopefully this will energize us for the 2006 elections.

(3) I want Bush to be pResident when we do take back Congress. Nothing would be sweeter than to see this guy held accountable for the crimes against this country that he has actively facilitated. I won't to see that smirking bastard breaking rocks in a maximum security prison for the rest of his natural life. We really need to make him a poster boy for future wannabe dictators.

[Lexingtonian]

17. How...condescending.

While it may be absolutely necessary that the Kerry people consult and explain everything to you in advance, then do it all in an obvious way that you can monitor, let me suggest that the chances of this are remarkably much lower than you might estimate.

I'm not an insider by any means but even I can see enough happening, see the analysis of the campaign and partisan power balance, to figure out what the Kerry camp is setting out to do. Your obloquy from frustration and quaint faith in the Clark political direction and manier is understandable. It is also, as I see it, an immature misestimation of Kerry and what needs to be done.

[marcologico]

19. More tunnel vision from the sour-grapes wing of the party. Kerry called

it 100% right in his concession speech: WE CANNOT WIN. There was no way in hell that a Bush-style electoral college win would have gone down, even if he HAD won Ohio. He still lost by 3.5 million popular votes and the courts, Congress, and court of public opinion (Murdoch) would not have let it happen, period.

[Califooyah Operative]

20. He didn't roll over, he's realistic.

an covertly planning what? what the hell are you talking about? He's a politician, and he surely acts strategicaly, but "covertly planning something" nice try...