I wonder what the repukes think of their "savior" taking away health insur

[greenbriar]

Health costs facing change

Bush, GOP are pushing a plan to switch more of the burden for insurance premiums to workers.

BY RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR

Los Angeles Times


WASHINGTON - Emboldened by their success at the polls, the Bush administration and Republican leaders in Congress think they have a new opportunity to move the nation away from the system of employer-provided health insurance that has covered most working Americans for the last half-century.

In its place, they want to erect a system in which workers -- instead of looking to employers for health insurance -- would take personal responsibility for protecting themselves and their families: They would buy high-deductible "catastrophic" insurance policies to cover major medical needs, then pay routine costs with money set aside in tax-sheltered health savings accounts.

more...


http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/nation/10784754.htm

[Colorado Blue]

1. I HATE these people. n/t

[The Zanti Regent]

33. WHAT MORE WILL THESE A-HOLES TAKE FROM ME?

They took my son from me. First, they stole his mind and then they stole his life.

They take my savings away from me, they bankrupted my Dad and stole his house with a crooked loan scheme.

I contracted rheumatoid arthritis seven years ago, it leaves me constantly in pain.

Can I get help with my medical bills? Hell No, I got one of them god-damned PRE-EXISTING conditions!

The only thing I have left is my health care from Kaiser Permanente, now they want to take that away from me and force me to buy a fucking policy from Golden Rule with a 20,000 deductible.

Hey, Asshole Republicans, My medicines cost $150+ a month along with the co-pays YOU jack up EVERY YEAR. Now, you're gonna make me fork out 20,000 BEFORE you shed a fucking penny?

Well, how am I going to pay $500 for my antiinflammatories, anti hypertensives and pain pills?

Oh, you tell me the CHURCHES will provide?

Sure they will, they are too busy indulging in their edifice complexes and providing their preachers with a fleet of BMWs which YOU NAZIS are paying for with MY TAX DOLLARS.

I tell you what, I think the old IWW Wobblies were right. The People need to shut the country down totally, one big general strike. Shut it all down. Remind these Nazi pigs that WE HAVE THE POWER. and we'll stay shut down until they give in and give up. Imagine if millions went out in the street and demanded that EVERY NAZI resign the offices they stole and we won't go back to work until they do and leave for the Hague in chains.

The only thing we have left to lose is our chains!

[Cyrano]

2. Most Republicans don't get it and never will. To paraphrase

Marie Antoinette, let them eat aspirin.

[LiberalinNC]

3. Where the hell do they come up w/ these insane ideas?

It's really depressing what these "morans" are doing to this country!

[greenbriar]

6. its all part of the "ownership" society

as in the big wigs own all the rest of us poor shlups

[merbex]

11. Right wing Think Tanks is where they come up w/these insane

ideas

[snippy]

29. They miss the good old days of 1930-31. n/t

[pbartch]

32. we needed to get this news to the poor, average salary people

last summer.

bush would not have had a chance in Hell-o of getting re-selected if Americans had known the truth.

republicans are all liars and cheats

[FreedomAngel82]

41. They still

would've rigged the election anyways. It was hopeless. Even if it was Dean they would've ruined him and did what they did to Kerry.

[meti57b]

4. That might sound good if you are a young guy ...

but if you are an older person, maybe having to work in your later years, maybe because bush nuked your Social Security, ... that idea is not going to sound good.

[jimshoes]

5. None of these jerkweeds

have ever lived from month to month trying to eek out a fucking living. Dog damn them all, the evil greedy pusbags.

[greenbriar]

7. thats for sure

or pray that they have no injuries

[blondeatlast]

12. Or no chronic health problems.

I do; losing my employer sponsored health insurance is quite simply a death sentence.

[Anakin Skywalker]

20. Oh They Sure Do Pray.

Probably a 100 more times a day than us heathens! :)

[Bake]

59. Actually, I'm praying they DO have injuries. And catastrophic illness.

That's the only thing that will open their fucking intentionally blind eyes. If even THAT will ...

Bake

[DebJ]

8. article states you can roll over amounts in the account from year

to year. my husband's employer offers an account that sounds like these, but we were specifically told it is a 'use it or lose it' thing.

[Carni]

38. I also distinctly heard that it's a use it or lose it affair

That was on CNN (so in other words who can tell if that is correct)
but they were adamant that the $$$ must be used up each year and not rolled over.

[blondeatlast]

9. They also want to eliminate the tax credits business gets for

providing health insurance.

These are lowlife, scumaucking germs.

[louis-t]

10. Giving $100,000 to families of military killed

is a nice distraction. I also think it was done because of growing resentment toward war president.

[Quakerfriend]

14. Yup, nice distraction

It's hard to belief that the gen'l public just cont's to allow bushcos march toward doing away with the middle class.

[greenbriar]

13. How many of us consider Health insurance when contemplating

taking this job or that???

[blondeatlast]

15. Any one with a family member with chronic health problems does.

Hubby just got a tremendous offer on salary, but much woth health benefits. He's still at the same job...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. I knew a self-employed couple who were doing well financially, but

the wife had to take a 9 to 5 job after their daughter developed juvenile diabetes at the age of five. With a diabetic in the family, their insurance company jacked their individual policy premiums up into the stratosphere.

[American Tragedy]

60. I will always have to, since I have a chronic condition

I take restricted medications every day, and they are not cheap. Without insurance, I would be screwed.

[Mountainman]

16. The repubs are pushing us closer to government paid health care

Unless this country thinks that health care is a luxury only for those who can afford it, there will surely be some push to get government involved in health care since none of us will be able to eat, pay rent, clothe our families and pay for health insurance too.

[Doctor Panacea]

17. I hate 'em, too.

As a medical doctor working in primary care, I can tell you that there will be a revolt among the Republican sheep if this loss of health insurance is an across-the-board policy affecting everybody. People cannot and, even if they can, will not save up money for medical expenses. Even the affluent among the middle class (not talking about the super-rich here) cannot afford to pay for their medical expenses. Tests can easily run into a few thousand dollars, and that does not include hospital fees, anesthesiology fees, and surgical fees. I can tell you that most people out there without insurance are not even able to afford their medicines.

I don't think this new insurance plan will apply to everybody, if they try to carry through with it. Somehow the loss will affect mostly the "workers" (translation: serfs on the BushCo Plantation). Honestly, there is no way that this lunacy can be implemented in the Republican base without a rebellion. People just do not have the money, and even if they do, they will not pay. They will do without care and without medicines rather than pay outrageous amounts of money for a test or a medicine.

(EDIT: I think Mountainman is right. He got his post in just before me. I started to get into the same argument that he made, but held off. The Repubs cannot be so damned stupid as to think that the Republican sheep are going to stand for a loss of health insurance. I think the whole thing is a Republican ploy to get the government involved in health care "for all". Then the Repubs will claim that it is a "Democrat/liberal" idea. They will then try to trim away most of the good features of this "left-wing" proposal. You can bet that some kind of secondary insurance that is lucrative business for insurance companies will still be available. Remember that the Republican way is always: Privatize the profit and socialize the debt.)

[ChiciB1]

25. As Someone Else Posted...

How can these MORONS keeps missing the boat here??? I doubt they'll EVER really figure it out, but they're gonna get PINCHED pretty bad!

Then and only then will they begin to have a small "inkling" of what has happened. I was talking to a person who came over to my house today, he's a Repuke, BUT amazingly when I started asking a few questions, he was totally perplexed!!

He just said he "liked" The Boy King Idiot! I asked what he liked about him, and again he was pretty vague, just that his parents were REPUKES!!!

I had to resist making much of a comment and only said Oh, I see that makes a lot of sense.

Funny thing is, I don't know this person very well, he was just storing a 4-wheeler at our house, but I know for a fact that he is known to do a little "dealing" if you get my drift???

So much for those "family values!" Don't cha just love it???

[FreedomAngel82]

42. Sometimes I have

to go to the dr for thyroid check ups and medicine. We get our medicine in the mail since it's cheaper (*shrug*) and my dr visit's are so pricy. Last time my visit was $250. It's my choice to be without health insurance since I don't go to the dr a lot (someone else could use it who needs it, I'm a college student). My brother doesn't have a job now and isn't in school and he had to go to the dr recently for some test's on stuff and he got his bill today. It was $2,000!!!! This is without insurance. And he's 19 now (20 next month) so he can't be on my Dad's work's insurance.

[Vinca]

18. This is how bad it is.

We're self-employed and recently had to give up our health insurance because we can't afford it any longer. Yesterday, I cut my finger while chopping veggies for stew. The thing really needed a couple of stitches, but instead of shelling out hundreds to the ER, I dragged out the butterfly bandages, gauze and adhesive tape. Today, as it continued to open up periodically and bleed, I was wondering if you have to be a doctor to buy stuff to stitch yourself up. I swear, if everyone loses their insurance, someone's going to make a killing with "do-it-yourself" medical procedure kits. ("Honey, grab the forceps and see if you can reach that pesky appendix for me . . . pretty please?")

[Doctor Panacea]

21. Cutting finger

Vinca, you can't get that stuff in the U.S. without a medical license or a prescription. Also, sewing up a finger ... You've got to have some real brass balls to do that without numbing the finger, and that is something that one should not undertake without some instruction first.

The good news: Keep it bandaged. These things will heal on their own. But it really needed to be sewed up.

[Vinca]

61. Thanks for your concern.

It looks much better this morning. I was only half serious about stitching up my own finger, although I'm sure I could do it in a pinch. Not only do I have just enough medical knowledge to be dangerous, I'm an expert at needlework (quilting, embroidery, etc.).

[Carni]

39. In the same boat

We went from insuring employees (and not because we HAD to but because it's the right thing to do) to having no insurance ourselves.

I am not religious... but the pray you don't get sick thing has been standard fair around this house for a couple of years.

[indepat]

19. We can leave it to God to take care of those in need

[Anakin Skywalker]

23. So THAT's it!

Faith-based healing! Now it makes sense. Faith-based everything is the Bush/xtian fundy way.

[indepat]

30. I think you are on to something

[borg5575]

22. I agree with the sentiments...

expressed by others in this thread. However, if we are ever going to get back in power, we have to come up with sensible alternative proposals.

Health care is in crisis in this country. Many small business owners simply can't afford to provide health benefits anymore to their employees. We have got to come up with a workable plan to address this issue. Hillary tried in '93 and got shot down but we have got to try again. Just saying "no" isn't enough. We have to offer workable alternatives.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

48. You're right: single payer

similar to Canada's system. Hillary's system was NOT single payer, but a bureaucratic nightmare that left too much power in the hands of the insurance companies.

[leftofthedial]

24. they think, "yay!"

"we love the righteous, godly prezdnt boosh"

[greenbriar]

26. uyus masser

he can go cheney himself

[leftofthedial]

27. I've never been so disgusted with our "gummint"

and the ignorant Murkan public in my life.


And I've been getting disgusted since the Johnson Administration, when I first became politically aware.

[snippy]

28. GOP motto: Profits over people. Let us prey.

Republicans miss the good old days of 1930-31.

[DemocracyInaction]

31. Want to know what the head of Lilly Corp. Said??

You know Lilly (sp?) the drug company??---well about 5 years ago I saw on C-Span the CEO giving a speech to big business leaders. He said that in 10 years US businesses would no longer offer health insurance to their employees and all the fat fuckers in the room nodded their heads in agreement. He startled them when he said (and he was, I believe a Frenchman) that he had lived under both kinds of health systems and that they both had their good points and their bad. He said that the US government had to get involved and go into a least a partnership with insurance companies, etc. to address this looming crisis or he said it would be a catastrophic blow to this nation. NO SHIT. They think the average American can build the house, send the kids through college, take care of thier own retirement into ages ranging into the 90's now, take care of their parents, susidize corporations, pay the prices charged by ever growing monoplies in this country, pay for healthcare out of their pockets for prices more than they take home in thier paychecks and then go out to the mall and shop until the drop to keep this pigshit economy going!!! This house of cards is on it's last deal.........

[Generic Other]

34. I wonder if they'll get a bunch of CEOs to dress up like workers

to convince us all what a great deal it is to lose our own health insurance and social security? Are we really going to go along with this crap?

[BillySherm]

35. Health insurance

I'm a part-time working full-time college student and I pay for my own health insurance already. I'm on medication for epilepsy, too, which only adds to the cost. I don't think the republicans want to forceably do away with the employer-provided plan that has worked so well, but instead add a privatized account system to it in case the benefits don't carry over from one job to the next.

It pays to get the facts right and not overreact to something we read in a newspaper. Republicans are more apt to take the debate more seriously then.

[greenbriar]

36. yea right

and social security too right...


go along little sheeple

[Lydia Leftcoast]

46. If you're a college student, your health insurance is cheap

because young people tend to be healthy.

Try being self-employed and over 50, then we'll talk.

And no, you understand the Bush plan wrong. He wants to put everyone on a pay-as-you-go basis with only catastrophic policies and nothing provided by employers.

[No Exit]

50. Here's what the republicans want to do:

1. Help the insurance industry (and their other favored industries) to shake down the public of every single penny they can possibly get, so that the corporations will then have as much as possible to kick back to the politicians.

That's it. That's all. Got it?

[greenbriar]

52. nail

head

[blondeatlast]

51. They want to do away with the employer tax-credit they get for

providing health benefits too.

I've got diabetes and a heart condition. Without my GROUP medical insurance I wouldn't be here. I assume that just really breaks your heart, doesn't it?

Enjoy your stay, Billy.

Can't wait until we see your profile! :evilgrin:

[Doctor Panacea]

56. Wrong

I don't think the republicans want to forceably do away with the employer-provided plan that has worked so well, but instead add a privatized account system to it in case the benefits don't carry over from one job to the next.

"... that has worked so well ..."???

BillySherm, you got it all wrong.

The plan is to take the burden of health insurance off the back of the employer. In fact, the burden really is a big one, especially for any small business with a few employees. It has nothing to do with the government 'forcing' employers to drop health coverage. Employers will always be free to provide insurance as long as it is commercially available. But employers will drop it on their own, like a hot potato, when they are no longer required to provide it. Many smaller employers, with only a few employees, have already dropped health insurance.

The employee would then become responsible for his own medical expenses through tax-exempt 'health savings accounts' (which will not work; see my post above).

The only answer is national health coverage, whether it is single-payer or multiple-payer in type. A multiple-payer system would work as long as every 'payer' was held to the same standards and rules and used the same filing procedures (in effect, a single-payer system with multiple entities involved in management).

[Carni]

37. Good have at it bush co!

Had a massive realization about this last night

I say LET EM DO IT--

Why? Because maybe then these assholes that voted for this *individual* will get what they deserve...

Will good people suffer? Yes, but so far as yet nothing has awakened the other fat, stupid, selfish, sloth like creatures, that don't pay any attention to the world at large, out of their apathy!

As a small business owner (that hasn't had any health insurance themselves since 2002) I cannot tell you how many corporate yuppie types that I know that bitch about their dental and vision insurance not being up to par, that run to the Dr for every freaking occasion... Yet THEY espouse the repuke mantra ad nauseum and snicker at idiots such as myself that have been trying to fight for their stupid middle class butts for the last five plus years.

I say F em and welcome to the real world baby.

[FreedomAngel82]

43. True Carni

Only way people will wake up is if it's a huge shock and awe type of thing. People have to be really angry at BushCo before they will ever go against him.

[Carni]

44. IMO There is no other way

A lot of people in this country are either REALLY stupid, or REALLY selfish, and it's time to light a fire under the collective asses of both groups because they just don't get it...

[No Exit]

47. I'm with you!

We also already have private health insurance. (That is, it's 100% paid for by US.) In order to even afford it, I have always sought high deductibles, and am about to raise my deductible again.

It always amuses me when a doctor's receptionist asks, "What's your co-pay?"

Speaking only of those whose yearly medical expenses are actually below, say, $5000-$10,000,I have some small hope that, if most people are paying actual money to their doctors, maybe the doctors will realize that some people need to pay by the month. As it is, I have practically had to throttle the doctors we use to get them to let us pay by the month when necessary. Never mind the fact that we have a perfect credit rating and have never run out on any bill--not once.

Oh, and dentists.... well, don't get me started... lol.

Before anyone starts on me about "why shouldn't doctors be paid for their work", I am NOT SAYING that they shouldn't be paid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I let people pay ME bit by bit if they have to; if I elect to have them pay all up front, I reduce what I charge them somewhat. I know what it's like to have to collect from people, and I am NOT trying to cheat ANYONE out of getting the value of their work.

[Carni]

53. To clarify

I hear you, but I don't think corps should skate on paying insurance for their employees...

My real point is, if these jerks that voted for bush, are going to spout the repuke mantra, then they should suffer the consequences of a bushit run mafia.

Personally...I only WISH we still had the employees (and the business) to pay the insurance for!

[No Exit]

58. Agreed!

Actually, I think what is happening is that Bushit and Co. are proposing to remove the tax deductibility of a corporation's paying part or all of a worker's health insurance premium. That's all. So, assuming that happens, everyone is assuming that the corporations, no longer getting the deduction, will stop paying all or part of a worker's health insurance premium.

And they no doubt will react in exactly that way. After all, they are nothing more than money-making machines.

What would be so terrible if the corporations, as part of the compensation they pay their workers, would actually pay for the actual medical care (within some limits)? I just wish there were a way to cut out the insurance companies from this equation, that's all. All the insurance companies do is inflate the price and decrease the efficiency.

Oh, well, it's all academic anyway, b/c we know the corporations will do everything they can to cheat (bit by bit) those who work for them out of as much compensation as possible.

Here's the part where you REALLY hit the nail on the head: "If these jerks voted for bush, are going to spout the repuke mantra, then they should suffer the consequences of a bushit run mafia." Absolutely!

The really sad thing is, they are so stupid that they will continue to vote against their own interests! What are ya gonna do with 'em? They're almost too stupid to live...

[FreedomAngel82]

40. That's just disgusting

Without that how can families be on the same insurance company? What will happen to the kids and the wife/husband? :\ What if one doesn't work? Will they still be covered some way? Oh why why.... :cry:

[Warren DeMontague]

49. Faith-Based Healing will do the trick.

Who needs that satanic modern medicine, anyway?

Single Prayer Health Coverage, baby.

[No Exit]

54. That's right! If God could create Adam and Eve

and the garden of Eden, then He should be able to cure a freeper's cancer with the snap of His almighty fingers! Who needs all that science and medicine crap?? It's all just evil humans trying to usurp the power of the Almighty! Far better to simply pray, and prayer costs nothing, how convenient is THAT??

[ultraist]

55. LMAO!!! "The Lord will Provide!"

Who needs Science and Medicine?

[No Exit]

57. Yeah--it's sinful to rely on mere humans for medical treatment! :)

Why... why... it's akin to worshipping false idols!