salazar just rose to endorse Gonzales.Colorado should launch a recall.

[saracat]

AND he did it after having an"enlightening" conversation with Bryd, who he claims to respect. Then votes for Gonzales?

[LSparkle]

1. If this is what we have to look forward to with our new Senators

then we're doomed. Obama'd REALLY better not vote "yes" ...

[saracat]

3. Obama has been voting right along with the repugs. Twice he voted for Cond

[LSparkle]

Yeah but ... hate to say this

she was a sister and it wasn't going to be close. This one he could vote "no" on without feeling like a sore thumb.

[Spacejet]

65. So Obama is a racist?

Got any evidence to back that up?

[MisterLiberal]

58. Solution

The Democratic Leadership (if there still is one!) needs to punish all of these DINOs by giving them the crappiest jobs in the Senate.

Reward the REAL Democrats with the power seats.

[Walt Starr]

2. THERE CAN BE NO RECALL OF FEDERAL OFFICES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To do that, you hve to first amend the constitution. No United States Senator or Representative can be recalled.

[saracat]

7. Is there anyway to get rid of him?

[Walt Starr]

11. Only the Senate can get rid of him

The voters put him in and must accept him as their Senator unless he resigns, dies, or is removed by the Senate.

[Freddie Stubbs]

51. He is up for reelection in a little less than six years

[bush_is_wacko]

16. I'm on him. I wrote him yesterday and he's gonna get more today!

Talk about cronyism! Oh he's Hispanic so I must support him. this is sickening!

Torture isn't really a big deal if you are a newly elected Hispanic Democrat. Salazar is a conservative Dem, but our other choice was freakin' Pete Coors! What a choice!

If you don't know much about the Coors family look them up. They are the filthiest scum polluters on Colorado soil!

[Walt Starr]

21. I lived in Cheyenne, Wyoming for more than two decades

I know ALL about the Coors slimeballs.

[bush_is_wacko]

54. So you know it was the lesser of two evils.

I had hoped that encouragement and reality would help Salazar truly represent his constituents. There must be something in the water here (probably from all that Coors pollution). Democrats seem to lack testicles in large numbers when they come from this state. They also tend to practice cronyism on a regular basis. It is very difficult to truly support ANYONE in Colorado.

[ThunderBran]

4. Man oh man...

This guy's killing me. DINO much??

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

5. Oh good. Give the Republicans another seat.

Great fucking idea. I think before we can expect our leadership to get a clue, our rank and file has to.

[xultar]

9. OMFG please change your siggy. That nearly scared the SHIT out of me!

:puke:

[saracat]

What difference would itg make? Even if we control the Agenda,

they would vote against us! This apparently isn't a democratic seat.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

29. I meant our party leadership.

We, Democrats, have no fucking clue how the system works sometimes.

Salazaar has two choices:

1) Make a "no" vote that will change absolutely NOTHING in order to please people that will never vote for him.

---or---

2) Realizing his vote is meaningless and coming from a state that re-elected Bush, he could please his constituents so that he will eventually be re-elected himself by holding his nose and voting "yes".

Now, I know that's a difficult concept for a lot of people to swallow, but it's a non-decision. You vote "yes" and live to fight the fights you can actually win.

[saracat]

34. That is the old politics as usual shit. Guess what? It isn't working.

Who conrtols everything? Who is in the WH? We have NOTHING to make a deal with. THERE IN NO SUCH THING AS BIPARTISANSHIP. And if he has to please that kind of constituency, ALL his votes will be repuke lite and we may as well have an honest Republican.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

35. No, we might NOT as well have an honest Republican.

Unless you really want to be in the minority your entire life.

Bipartisanship has NOTHING to do with this vote at all. Control has nothing to do with this. The White House has nothing to do with this. Get a clue!!

This is about a man in our party who wants to keep the seat he just got elected to. And this is about the party wanting to keep a seat in a state where we by all means probably shouldn't have one. Like it or not, there are more Red states than Blue ones, meaning we unfortunately need the Salazaars and Liebermans of the party.

What that doesn't mean is that they should be in control of our party. But one vote is a far cry from controlling anything.

[borg5575]

36. You may as well count him as a Republican already.

What's the difference?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

37. The difference is part where he votes for who's in charge.

And he currently votes for Democrats and not Republicans. That's a big fucking difference.

[borg5575]

41. With all due respect...

What difference does that make? If his vote was the vote that tipped the Senate to the Democrats, then you'd have a point.

But he can vote with the Democrats on organizational issues all he wants and it won't make any difference since the Republicans have 55 seats.

So when he votes with the Republicans on the issues, as it looks like he will do, then I still say "what's the difference?"

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

42. Then you tell me where that seat is going to be replaced.

And please, also point out 5 other seats we will be able to switch to our side.

Unlike you, I have my eye on being in the majority again. ANY loss of seats is a bigger hole than we need to be in right now.

[borg5575]

49. You misunderstood

I'm not advocating that Salazar be replaced by a Republican. I am just voicing my frustration that he seems to be DINO.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

50. You asked what the difference was.

I'm telling you there's a big one.

[xultar]

6. Nevermind. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

14. This Latina thinks that Gonzales is a pro-torture fascist pig

and that he should not be AG.

[xultar]

18. I know. Whenever I say stuff like that I forget that people don't realize

that I don't mean it personally towards them.

There are some who like him because he's Latino and some who don't because he's a torture monger.

[tridim]

8. Don't forget, he gushed over Condi too

So far, he's no different than a generic lapdog Republican. Hey Salazar, here's an idea.. Try representing your constituency. Please?

[rockymountaindem]

24. He is representing his constituency.

I'd have to say that his views are probably in line with most Coloradans.

[tridim]

25. Coloradoans like torture? and Liars?

Not this Coloradoan.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

26. They voted for Bush, didn't they?

Well if they wanted Bush, they probably want his cabinet too.

[tridim]

28. That's a good question

and honestly I don't know the answer. Ask Diebold.

It sure looked like Bush was going to get trounced, just based on yard signs and bumper stickers.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

30. You can blame Diebold all you want

and you're probably right. But that's a pretty high-stakes poker game you'd be playing if you're Salazaar with a pretty shitty hand, considering most people don't buy the Diebold conspiracy theory.

[Touchdown]

39. We don't have Diebold machines here.

We have Sequoia Systems. Only one county has touch screens (Denver), and even there, it's not county wide. Only a few precincts.

Bush probably did win...but barely.

[Freddie Stubbs]

52. Why didn't the Diebold machines cause Coors to be elected

instead of Salazar? :shrug:

[borg5575]

61. Because Salazar will vote with the repugs on most issues anyway

Don't underestimate these people. Their fraud has to be subtle enough that it won't hit people over the head with a ton of bricks.

If they were too brazen in their vote stealing then maybe even the MSM couldn't ignore it.

That's why we have a lot of work to do. In 2008 they won't be able to steal the election again if we win by a large enough margin. They can only steal if if it's relatively close.

And yes I know, that's not fair. We should be able to assume power even if we win by a narrow margin. That's how it should work but until it does work that way we have to be sure to win by a landslide next time so they won't have the wherewithal to steal it again.

[Touchdown]

38. We also voted for Dem control of the statehouse...

...renewable wind energy
...and light rail mass transit in metro Denver.

Some "red state" huh?

I am severely disappointed in Salazar. I wrote him, and will work for his Dem challenger for 2010. What else can I do.

And THIS Coloradan doesn't approve of torture either.

For what it's worth...Bush BARELY won Colorado.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

44. But he DID win.

And Gonzales is HIS pick. You do the math.

[Touchdown]

53. What "math" do you want me to do?

I live here. What are you accusing the entire population of this state of, exactly?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

55. I'm not "accusing" any "entire population" of anything.

However, a majority of your citizens want Bush and whomever he chooses for his advisors and your Senator is respecting his constituents obvious wishes. If you can't do that math, you don't have any idea about politics in the real world.

[Touchdown]

57. Obviously you can't do the math either...

..since only 55-60% of Coloradans voted on Nov 3rd, and Kerry won 48% of the vote. Which means that roughly 25-27% of the population wanted Bush to remain in the White House. Hardly the "majority of your citizens" from you condescending, beltway view of us fly-over territorians.

It will be a cold day in Hell before I take the advice of a DC insider or denizen on what constitutes politics. Your proximity to the city makes you myopic to whats going on in the real world.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Touchdown]

67. "I'm not accusing an entire population of anything"

"The best and most accurate poll we have on how Coloradoans feel about George W. Bush is the 2004 election results. So guess what? THAT'S WHAT IS USED!"

Oh' really? :eyes:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

68. have fun on ignore.

[rockymountaindem]

31. Neither do I.

But we're in the minority, party-wise. Most people in our state are Republicans or right-leaning indys.

[EFerrari]

10. How much did this cost Bu$hCo? Vendido. n/t

[spartan61]

12. I can't believe this!!!!

[woodsprite]

13. He shouldn't be able to read a letter from Gonzales

when Gonzales refused to answer questions on his own during the hearing. I'm sorry Colorado :(

I'll be interested in seeing how my DE guys vote on this.

[JI7]

15. why ? Colorado voters don't have a problem with the vote

they voted for Salazar because he came across as conservative. and Kerry was seen as too liberal which is why he lost colorado.

[tridim]

20. Kerry "lost" Colorado because Colorado Springs

is Fundie central. The other population centers are Liberal. Denver and Boulder voted for Kerry big time.

[Carolab]

23. Are we SURE he lost Colorado? n/t

[Roland99]

17. Can you impeach a Senator?

:)

[quinnox]

19. That's it, its confirmed, Salazar is gonna be a DINO

At least with Coors we would know he wouldn't stab Dems in the back!

[katinmn]

22. what is wrong with these people?

makes you want to form a new country.

[stubertmcfly]

27. i just called his office...

...to express my disappointment.

and yeah. salazar felt like the lesser of two evils. i wonder how much lesser at this point.

[BlueInRed]

32. I doubt many of his constituents are surprised

This guy barely won election by a hair in a red state. I suspect most people who voted for him knew up front that he would not be a mainstream Dem and if he had been, I doubt he'd have gotten elected.

The reality is that it was going to be this guy or a much more conservative Republican. Colorado is not going to elect a true-blue Democrat to the Senate. The question is how far right he will prove over time. I don't think he's going to be as conservative as Mr. "I want to challenge you to a duel" Zell Miller. He's bound to vote with Democrats on some issues, which his opponent for the Senate wouldn't have done.

I am willing to cut Senators in red states some slack, even while holding Democrats from true-blue states to a higher standard, since their constituency justifies it. Time will tell if he is a conservative Democrat or completely off the reservation.

[w4rma]

43. Why does anyone think that Gonzales has much support among the Repug

base? Many of them don't like him, either. I'm sorry to say, but this is going to permanently harm Salazar.

[BlueInRed]

45. Who said that?

I certainly didn't say his constituents were the Republicans. But there are independents and moderates and DLCers in his constituency. There is no way in hell he could have been elected without moderates, DLCers and independents. And they probably are not surprised by the vote.

[w4rma]

47. Salazar essentially did. (nt)

[BlueInRed]

48. But I didn't

and you posted it in reply to me!

It is naive to think this guy is going to be a mainstream Democrat and I don't understand all the handwringing over him being exactly the kind of guy he campaigned as. The choice was him or a Republican, not him or a mainstream Democrat.

[MisterLiberal]

60. ?

The problem is that if you run as a Democrat, the people who elect you expect you to ACT LIKE A DEMOCRAT!

And even IF Bushie took Colorado, which I don't believe, that doesn't affect the people's vote in putting a DEMOCRAT in for the Senate.

It would be like going to McD's and ordering a hamburger and they give you a salad.

The people should get what they ordered: A REAL DEMOCRAT!

I'm sick of the Democrats who are afraid of everything. We need to find someone with a backbone who will stand up to the Repukes! I'm serious! Why does he even call himself a Democrat? Is this what we're left with?

If so, the Green Party's looking pretty good.

At least there I could lose in good conscience.

[BlueInRed]

63. and my point is

that Democrats in red states know the only way win is by choosing someone more conservative than mainstream Democrats.

If the Colorado Democratic Party thought they could win with the kind of Democrat you describe, I'm sure they would have nominated him/her. But they chose this guy just to get a Senator with a "D" by his name. They were practical and they knew exactly what they were getting.

Honestly, you'd think people would rather have the Republican from Colorado who'd be 100% certain to oppose every single thing Democrats want to do. While I am all for Democrats who live in Blue states actually acting like Democrats all the time, it is an unreasonable standard for a Democrat elected statewide in a red state. Back in November, everyone was just happy to have a Colorado senator with a "D" by their name.

The is basic pragmatism vs idealism. I want Democrats who actually act like Democrats, but I know in the real world, you can't always get what you want. Sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils.

We achieved more than I expected by getting so many Senators to vote "no" on Gonzales. I would love to see a filibuster (which is possible without Salazar), but I knew that was a pipe dream. I also knew it was a pipe dream to expect a guy who ran as a conservative Democrat to act like a mainstream Democrat.

If this was a real fight (such as him being the deciding vote on a filibuster to actually STOP Gonzales), I'd be on his case. But this vote on Gonzales is a symbolic vote only; Gonzales WILL BE the AG, everyone knows it, and that's because Democrats chose not to filibuster.

I am all for the Democrats having balls, hence I support Dean for DNC. And we have a real fight coming up on SS -- one that we can actually win. And we NEED Salazar for that, we need every Democrat for that. We need Salazar when they decide to filibuster judges. And I'll be the first one screaming about Salazar if he abandons us on SS or wacko judges. But this is beating a dead horse. The AG is a done deal and was the moment our leaders chose not to filibuster.

I'll never convince anyone who disagrees and likewise, you're not going to convince me that the voters of Colorado didn't know exactly what kind of "Democrat" they elected. As someone else noted, the Colorado Democratic Party even made him promise to not switch parties. If you want to be upset, be upset at the Colorado Democrats who knew exactly who this guy was and chose him anyway. But then, Coors would the the junior Colorado Senator too.

[otohara]

56. He Had To Address Rumors He Would Flip to GOP

at the Denver primary convention. Not only is he the worst speaker I've ever heard, he had to promise he would not do a Nighthorse.

[BlueInRed]

64. not surprising :)

it sounds like they knew just how conservative he was. :) Thanks for posting that info.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Usted votó por un fascista Senador Salazar.

Usted es un enabler cobarde de tortura.

[WI_DEM]

46. I don't know spanish but I got the gist of it

you called him an enabler of torture. I agree 100%

[EFerrari]

40. It's disgusting to see the most criminal Republican party in

memory, who have suppressed the minority vote with impunity, stand there and talk about the rule of law and civil rights.

[drummer55]

62. you cant recall a federal official

They could eat babies on the senate floor and they would still continue to serve out their terms.

they dont have to listen to us
they dont listen to us
the only 3 ways to remove a elected federal official is

1. they die
2. they resign
3. they are impeached. (the last time this happened to a senator was william blount from TN in 1799)

so you can see....they do what they want when they want how they want and it doesnt matter a damn what the people desire.

[Spacejet]

66. You can also remove them

by a vote of the members of the house. (expulsion)