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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:16 PM
Original message
read this and weep over what we have done (DU scandal)


http://www.buzzflash.com/mailbag/05/02/mai05026.html


Subject: Depleted Uranium

Did you run an article on this recently? If 11,000 are dead from Iraq War 1, how many will die from Iraq War 2, given the length of time they are in Iraq?

The Preventive Psychiatry E-Newsletter today charged that the reason Veterans Affairs Secretary Anthony Principi stepped down earlier this month was the growing scandal surrounding the use of uranium munitions (DU) in the Iraq War.

Witting in the Preventive Psychiatry E-Newsletter # 169, Arthur N. Bernklau, Executive Director of the Veterans For Constitutional Law center in New York, stated "The real reason for Mr. Principi's departure was really never given, however a special report published by eminent scientist Leuren Moret naming depleted uranium as the definitive cause of the "Gulf War Syndrome" has fed a growing scandal about the continued use of uranium munitions by the US Military....
He added "Out of the 580,400 soldiers who served in GW1, of them, 11,000 are now dead! By the year 2000, there were 325,000 on Permanent Medical Disability. This astounding number of "Disabled Vets" means that a decade later, 56% of those soldiers who served, have some form of permanent medical problems!...

http://milwaukee.indymedia.org/en/2005/01/202671.shtml

Karen
-snip-
------------------------------

and now their SOs and children have permanent medical problems too.

and the Iraqis live with DU 24/7

at the beginning of the war I kept saying that Iraq and Sick were the same word. live in Iraq or stay in Iraq for any time and you will be sick (or dead).

not only the environment needs healing, so does Iraq and Afghanistan.

the world needs doctors that know and understand the poison of DU, and that can treat the injured intelligently.

tick, tick, tick
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roenyc Donating Member (824 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. I thought you meant a Dem underground scandal...
i know this sucks and no one talks about it. it was front page of the daily news. a baby was born with no forarm or hand and the military dad blamed it on DU. no one cares.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Me too!!!
I was thinking...Holy Shit what did we do???

Nevermind..
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Me, too!!
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moggie12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Jeez, I thought Skinner was caught kissing Lieberman. n/t
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. scandalous n/t
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
35. I did, too!
LOL!
I know about this.
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Mr. Grieves Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. wow
Terrifying - I'm checking out the link.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Great post
But it sounds as if Democratic Underground is the culprit, not depleted uranium. Is it possible for you to change that?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. Actually he should leave it...
Given the importance of it, everyone should read it and obviously this headline will cause EVERYONE to click.

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Undercover Owl Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. That's why I looked!
I thought Democratic Underground had done something embarrassing.
Depleted Uranium, we can't compete with that.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. war crime of the first magnitude . . .
George W. Bush and his cronies are war criminals who must pay for what they have done (and continue to do) . . . by the time they get done with Iran and Syria (and maybe Saudie Arabia), a huge portion of the Middle East will be permanently uninhabitable . . . and the number of US troops who will be disabled from the Iraq war and those to follow will far surpass those disabled by the first Gulf war, since the use of DU in the current conflict(s) far exceeds what was used in the first go round . . .
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. They'll sadly never pay
They're seeing as hero's by people here in the country. I wish there was some way to get them though. They deserve it for all the harm they've done to people in Iraq and here!
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. Just posted some links here, thanks for estimates ( not really)
as this is horrible, I think we should try and keep this issue in the spotlight.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1565742

some other links

"Depleted uranium ... is dirt cheap. Tons of it, over 500 million pounds the last time anyone counted, is lying around in various states of nuclear “decay” at government reposi-tories throughout the . In an attempt to reduce this over-abundance of nuclear waste, the Defense Department provides depleted uranium to munitions makers such as Alliant Techsystems -- the largest maker of depleted uranium projectiles in the world -- at no cost and buys it back as completed weapons.
-- Elliot Borin, Wired magazine, 10 March 2003, “U.S. Stocking Uranium-Rich Bombs?"

stock symbol is ATK
http://www.nukewatch.com/du/factsheet.html

http://www.laka.org/teksten/Vu/where-how-much-01/main.html


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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Any health problems will be blamed on the insurgents ...
and Saddam since it's believed the insurgents raided the munitions. They'll just say that depleted uranium was used in all these munitions and that it was a plot by Saddam to inflict it on our troops. Spin spin spin ... I get so dizzy.....
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Man! I thought we were in trouble.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. No. don't change the Subject line.
I'm sure that the Freepers will see that and want to see what the scandel is. Let them read it and maybe it will actually fire a brain synapse or 2.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. The day DU can be used in dirty bombs is when we stop using it
If terrorists could just run-around picking the stuff up of battlefields and using it against us in weapons, we'd stop using it ASAP.

They wouldn't even need a "dirty bomb." It could simply be powdered and dispersed.

Are the insurgents using it as shrapnel in improvised explosives?

Harmful or not, WHY WOULD WE WANT TO LEAVE THIS STUFF LYING AROUND???

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Harmful or not?? Why has the US built these Superbox
containers for testing that have automatic doors that close ASAP and sophisticated filtering mechanisms.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. haven't heard of the Superbox - where did you hear of them?
nt
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Looking through too many links, follow the Aberdeen
Proving Ground link here.

http://nucnews.net/2000/du/du.htm

This site has 50 slides and one thing it mentions is that by exaggerating claims the issue gets discredited, but it is an issue.

http://www.nuclearpolicy.org/documents/fahey_jun_14_03.pdf
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. But, but, but...DU is just far-left conspiracy mongering!
</ignorance>

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sarahlee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
17. Once again. Dennis was/is correct::
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. You have to see the pictures to understand
here is a site that has many of the photos used in the video. I had looked at a film with an Iraqi doctor who showed the photo album with other pictures, it may have been an interview with John Pilger, not sure and cannot find the link.

http://www.einswine.com/atrocities/du/

http://pilger.carlton.com/iraq/rokke

It is easier not to look and to be oblivious and happy.
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sarahlee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. I've seen the pictures
Dennis even put up that flash movie with the pictures in them early on - it is at the top of the page in that link I gave.
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hector459 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's a scandal that the MSM won't touch. If we don't give voice to this
issue, who will?
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
20. thanks donsu
you know, many people here staunchly defend the Democratic Party from those who criticize it ...

people, old people, young people, Shia people, Sunni people, just people, are dying everyday ... and we have poisoned Iraq ... and the silence from Democrats on this suffering is deafening ... and with each day that goes by, more people die ...

you couldn't have said it better ... tick, tick, tick ...
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
21. And the sons of bitches knew this when they used it again in Iraq War!
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 07:25 PM by flpoljunkie
And they will get away with it, no doubt, and the Iraqi veterans will have to scrounge and beg for medical treatment.

Damn the military -industrial -government complex! I do not understand how the fuckers live with themselves.

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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. And after the lies they told about Agent Orange


not being harmful, you would think people would wise up a bit.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
26. It's blowing in the wind (DU that is)
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 10:07 PM by JohnyCanuck
The horror of Depleted Uranium is not limited to Iraq – it may well be at our doorsteps.

by James Denver

I’m horrified. The people out there – the Iraqis, the media and the troops – risk the most appalling ill health. And the radiation from depleted uranium can travel literally anywhere. It’s going to destroy the lives of thousands of children, all over the world. We all know how far radiation can travel. Radiation from Chernobyl reached Wales and in Britain you sometimes get red dust from the Sahara on your car.’

The speaker is not some alarmist doom-sayer. He is Dr Chris Busby, the British radiation expert, Fellow of the University of Liverpool in the Faculty of Medicine and UK representative on the European Committee on Radiation Risk, talking about the best kept secret of this war: the fact that, by illegally using hundreds of tons of depleted uranium (DU) against Iraq, Britain and America have gravely endangered not only the Iraqis but the whole world. For these weapons have released deadly, carcinogenic and mutagenic, radioactive particles in such abundance that – whipped up by sandstorms and carried on trade winds – there is no corner of the globe they cannot penetrate – including Britain. For the wind has no boundaries and time is on their side: the radioactivity persists for over 4,500,000,000 years and can cause cancer, leukaemia, brain damage, kidney failure, and extreme birth defects – killing millions of every age for centuries to come. A crime against humanity which may, in the eyes of historians, rank with the worst atrocities of all time.

<snip>

Despite all that evidence of the harm done by DU, governments on both sides of the Atlantic have repeatedly claimed that as it emits only ‘low level’ radiation DU is harmless. Award winning scientist, Dr Rosalie Bertell who has led UN medical commissions, has studied ‘low level’ radiation for 30 years.(2 )She has found that uranium oxide particles have more than enough power to harm cells, and describes their pulses of radiation as hitting surrounding cells ‘like flashes of lightning’ again and again in a single second.(2) Like many scientists worldwide who have studied this type of radiation, she has found that such ‘lightning strikes’ can damage DNA and cause cell mutations which lead to cancer. Moreover, these particles can be taken up by body fluids and travel through the body, damaging more than one organ. To compound all that Dr Bertell has found that this particular type of radiation can cause the body’s communication systems to break down, leading to malfunctions in many vital organs of the body and to many medical problems. A striking fact, since many veterans of the first Gulf war suffer from innumerable, seemingly unrelated, ailments.

In addition, recent research by Eric Wright, Professor of Experimental Haematology at Dundee University, and others, have shown two ways in which such radiation can do far more damage than has been thought. The first is that a cell which seems unharmed by radiation can produce cells with diverse mutations several cell generations later. (And mutations are at the root of cancer and birth defects.) This ‘radiation induced genomic instability’ is compounded by ‘the bystander effect’ by which cells mutate in unison with others which have been damaged by radiation – rather as birds swoop and turn in unison. Put together, these two mechanisms can greatly increase the damage done by a single source of radiation, such as a DU particle. Moreover, it is now clear that there are marked genetic differences in the way individuals respond to radiation – with some being far more likely to develop cancer than others. So the fact that some veterans of the first Gulf war seem relatively unharmed by their exposure to DU in no way proves that DU did not damage others.


http://www.energybulletin.net/4121.html


From the Uranium Medical Research Centre web site www.umrc.net
Facts and Fictions on DU:

Fiction: Uranium is ubiquitous in nature and we are exposed daily. There is no cause for concern.

Fact: Uranium is present in nature in trace amounts, about 3 parts per million (ppm) by weight. It takes about 5 tonnes of dry soil or rock to produce 1 teaspoon of what is called ”natural uranium”. It is “natural” in that is has the isotopic proportions that exist in nature. However, what is “unnatural” is when uranium is presented in concentrated quantities. In these concentrations of radioactivity its effect on human health and the environment become dangerous.

When uranium is exposed to the natural chemical action of the environment it can become solublized and can then migrate into the water supply. Uncontained uranium waste is a problem when left in the open as it oxidizes. This is the case all over the world in nuclear waste repositories.

Uranium is most dangerous when it burns and is aerosolized as happens when it is used in weapons.

<snip>

Fiction: Alpha particles can't penetrate clothes and skin.

Fact: This statement ignores the most prevalent and dangerous pathway for uranium to get into the human body. Inhaled uranium can remain in the lungs and bones for years where it continues to emit alpha, beta and gamma radiation. Each alpha particle can traverse up to several hundred cells causing somatic and genetic alterations. Multiply this by billions of such particles and a huge amount of cellular damage becomes possible. The majority (50-70%) of the airborne DU particles sampled during the testing of 105 mm DU projectiles were in the respirable range and capable of reaching the non-ciliated bronchial tree. Studies also indicate that the half-time in the lungs is up to 5 years.


www.umrc.net/facts_and_fictions.aspx
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Acryliccalico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
28. Fooled me too,
but don't change it because it will get everyone to read the post, I did. :kick:
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AgadorSparticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
30. wow. they knew and they still went ahead and used DU in iraq.
they won't stop until they kill us all...
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Does a Chess grandmaster shed tears
Edited on Sat Feb-05-05 12:34 PM by JohnyCanuck
over the sacrifice of his pawns, knowing that by doing so it will allow him to checkmate his oponent's king.
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AgadorSparticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. i recognize their inability to shed tears for *anything* in life--except
maybe their hordes of money.

but i hope that i will never become desensitized to inhumanity, cruelty, and degradation.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
32. Another kick for those who hide their head in the sand on this issue.
Face reality, people.

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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
33. It's not being discussed in the American medical community at all
I had an interesting observation the other day when a single issue anti-abortion rightwiger heard that fetuses were being damaged by DU...he nearly snapped his head off twisting around to ask "What?!?"

Perhaps this might be noticed by the 'love fetuses-hate living people' crowd
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RafterMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
34. 11,000 dead?
That's a mortality rate of under 2 per 1,000 per year. I think that's pretty good, vs. the standard population.

Given that oversight, I'd have to check the derivation of the disabled numbers too, if it's available.
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