Liberal or progressive?

[senseandsensibility]

I AM A LIBERAL!!! I'm even a flaming one, just like Johnny Carson was. I majored in (gasp) liberal studies!!! Really.

I have nothing against the term progressive, but I will stick with liberal. The repukes are not gonna scare me away from it with their slander and innuendo.

"Conservative" should be the swear word, not liberal!!

[EST]

1. I think "Democracy" party should be our real name. N/T

[Tux]

50. Really

Patriot Party would sound better.

Yes, I was for New England in the Super Bowl.

[cwwbell]

2. Progressive!

Liberal is their word. They made it up to describe what they thought was wrong with us around the time of the New Deal. It was negative then and it's negative now. Don't give them the satisfaction of hearing it repeated over and over again.

[senseandsensibility]

5. Is that true?

Was liberal made up by our enemies? I've never heard that before, but I would love to hear more. Anyone know?:shrug:

[Mojambo]

9. They redefined Liberal

They didn't make it up.

[senseandsensibility]

10. That's just it.

They redefined it with propaganda and their usual lies. So I don't feel that we should run from it. That's what they want us to do. I always did have a stubborn streak! However, if you let them define you, you've already lost!

[Mojambo]

11. I have no problem with keeping Liberal

I've never run from it. I use progressive and liberal interchangeably.

I don't use Democrat anymore, but if Dean has the success I think he'll have I will glady start again.

[newyawker99]

24. Hi cwwbell!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[dogman]

26. Liberal is our word, it's only negative if we run from it.

O'Vilely is already attacking Progressives in his Op-Eds. What name do you want when that has been portrayed negatively. I follow the lead of some of this country's greatest Generals. George washington said,“As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality.” Wes Clark said,"I am a liberal. We live in a liberal democracy. That's what we created in this country. That's in our Constitution. ... I think we should be very clear on this. You know, this country was founded on the principals of the Enlightenment. It was the idea that people could talk, reason, have dialogue, discuss the issues. It wasn't founded on the idea that someone would get struck by a divine inspiration and know everything right from wrong. I mean, people who founded this country had religion, they had strong beliefs, but they believed in reason, in dialogue, in civil discourse. We can't lose that in this country. We've got to get it back."

[Just Me]

29. I call myself "progressive" because I view myself too complex,...

,...to fit strictly within any other "label" (particularly the black/white ones).

I mean, in terms of inclusivity and being open to new ideas and welcoming multiple perspectives, I am quite liberal. However, I also hold some traditionally conservative notions like fiscal responsibility and a strong family (except I believe there are gay couples who can provide a safer and more loving environment than some of the domestically violent heterosexual couples) and limited government intrusion. I prefer to just call myself an American who advocates for democracy, equality, opportunity and social/economic justice in addition to the "rule of law".

Welcome to DU :hi:

[sandnsea]

48. Say "Liberal Republicans"

To reframe progressive values that moderate conservatives support. Like environment, abortion, gay rights. We force them to choose it or be labeled a fundy; and take back liberal, all at the same time.

[kaho]

52. Great point...

...I agree, it forces clarity into debate by sharpening focuses.
Terrific.

[Mojambo]

3. I'd be interested in hearing people's definitions of each.

I'm not really sure how I'd define myself. I somewhat prefer progressive.

On edit

Progressive - Promoting or favoring progress toward better conditions or new policies, ideas, or methods: a progressive politician; progressive business leadership.

It seems to me that is a difficult political ideology to argue against.

[independentchristian]

4. Progressive populist?

[MattG]

7. Populist Democrat

I'm not no damn hippy!!!

[Debi]

6. My answer is

YES!!!! :kick:

[senseandsensibility]

8. LOL

Heck, it's all GOOD!!:)

[last1standing]

12. Progressive.

Either term is fine with me but I always think of myself as progressive versus reactionary. Also, I'm rather fiscally conservative in that I think we need to balance the budget and keep it balanced. Mind you, after that I think we need to use the surplus on things such as health care and programs to help the disadvantaged so maybe I am a liberal. :)

[Dr Ron]

13. Hell if I know

I've avoided labels for years, finding they often tie me to a set of positions when I might agree with some and disagree with others.

However, lately I've found that I often (but not always) agree with those who call themselves either Liberal or Progressive, and very rarely agree with those who call themselves Conservative. The times I think I agree with people who call themselves Conservatives is when they argue in favor of freedom, but then I find that their policies offer the opposite.

[kaho]

14. Progressing to what?

....the term progressive is too liberal. Honest.
Progressive can mean anything to anybody. And it demands explanation. What is the ultimate goal of the "progressive" movement?

Here in Aotearoa/New Zealand we have a tiny left-wing party facing extinction called The Progressive Labour Party. Its leader has been regarded as an extreme left winger in his younger days. (Now he favours hand outs to big business. I mean big business by our standards of big - not yours.)

Similarly our zero tax Libertatrian advocates (who I lean towards) are also proud to call themselves progressive.

Why not stick to Liberal? It has great historical connotations of liberty and personal freedom. Those values are perpetual, and surely a political ideal.

[MaineDem]

17. Kia ora!!!

Welcome to DU. :hi:

I adore your country...and your ruggers players. Go the All Blacks!!!

[kaho]

44. ..lovely response!

...thank you for that!
Kia ora katou to all DU readers.

[Democrat Dragon]

15. Liberal

I don't care if "Liberal" is a tainted word. It was not made up but the rethugs, therefore it is not their word. If they soil it, it's not my problem.

[nevergiveup]

16. There is forward, neutral and reverse

I am for going forward and if this makes me a "liberal" or "progressive" I could care less. Conservatives want to go back to the "good ole days" when minorities including women were subservient to white males, "queers" best stay in the closet, and war was a glorious thing. Sorry, I don't wish to back nor do I want to stay locked in neutral.

[kaho]

45. Well nevergiveup I don't know...

...but part of me thinks somethings not quite right with your logic.

Your response reads to me like pure "conservative" left wing stuff. Stereotyping would be putting it gently. Are ALL your right wing opponents really like that?

If political opponents are stereotyped that rigidly by you, then it stereotypes your own politics as conservative, D'ya see what I mean?

I think a more flexible, more practical response is required. Otherwise we may as well just carry on fighting the class war of the 30's.

Where did that get the Left?

[beltanefauve]

58. Worse than that

Conservatives not only seem to want to go back to "the good old days", they want to drag everybody else back "there" with them!
The "good old days" could be the 1950's or even the 11th century.

I alternate between Liberal and Progressive myself.

[quaker bill]

18. There has to be better terminology.

Honestly.

In the historic sense of the word, Bush's foriegn policy of spreading "freedom and democracy" throughout the world, (by force if needed), defines as "Liberalism".

"Conservatives" were always the ones to avoid "un-necessary foriegn entanglements".

I find the term "progressive" kind of weak and ill defined, and the term "liberal" so muddled and mired in history as to be an unsuitable handle.

Surely with all the creative minds out there we can come up with a more accurate term.

[kaho]

47. Dead right!

..and I do believe that this is the real issue.
The term conservative has huge appeal - people are - (well let me qualify that - I am - generally cynical re politically inspired change) and although change is needed in our lives and societies, the term "conservative" is a very potent and desirable political tag.

"Progressive" is hopeless unless qualified. In fact it's negative. The term has to be qualified as a word that describes clear progression to a clear goal. Right now the conservatives can, and do, paint that goal as state socialism.

After 1989, state socialism is a total dead duck. So unless we regain a clear goal (that is not state socialism) we have to accept that every time we associate ourselves with the word progressive, we allow our opponents to steer us in the direction they choose. What a cake walk for them!

The task is very worthwhile. I like to think of myself as a libertarian. I'm comfortable with that, mildly comfortable with "liberal", but scratching,itching with "progressive".

[ChiciB1]

19. I'm With You... BUT

given the fact that this subject keeps re-appearing, I think we're just re-hashing here. People will start nit-picking as they have in the past, so what's the use???

What with the "prayer meeting" held yesterday morning where ALL the news stations gave it "special" coverage, even C-Span, much to my dismay, us Liberals are being shoved further aside!

My only question is WHEN WILL THEY EVER LEARN??????

[latteromden]

20. Both. But I am NEVER "fiscally conservative."

For two reasons:

1) "Fiscally conservative," well, honestly, I don't know what the hell it means anymore, with the current state of Republicanism.

2) God forbid we get people thinking that "conservative" is a GOOD thing.

I'm always for fiscal responsibility, never fiscal conservatism, but I call myself both a liberal and a progressive.

[RealDems]

21. I'm so torn...

I think progressive makes more sense than liberal, because liberal makes me think of classical liberalism -- which is basically modern conservatism.

But I also don't want to let them scare us out of using the word liberal. Sometimes I use liberal just to spite them.

I also REALLY want to bring back the term populist.

[senseandsensibility]

22. Yes

populist is good, and not used enough. Yet we don't want to muddy the waters with too many terms. I think we should stick with liberal, if only because most people already are familiar with it. But we need to make it our own again.

[RealDems]

49. But is it the right term?

As I said I like the word liberal only because the Right has tried to take it away. I don't know that it would be the term I would use if I had the opportunity to start from scratch. You?

[rndmprsn]

23. Progressive n/t

[Krupskaya]

25. I hate "progressive."

Hate it, hate it, hate it. With the heat of a thousand suns.

[QC]

27. Any particular reason why?

Do you know anything at all about the history of the word and why some of us prefer it? Or is this just a snap judgment based on the common but mistaken notion that Progressives are just liberals who are afraid to own up to it?

[dogman]

28. What does Progressive mean?

I see Dennis use it and I see the DLC use it. It obviously doesn't mean the same thing to different people. Which progressive are you?

[QC]

30. Well, for me, the difference between liberal and progressive

is the difference between Barbra Streisand and Howard Zinn.

American liberalism abandoned class as an issue years ago, and that has much to do with the shape the Democratic Party is in now. Look around DU, at discussions of working people, and you could easily think you were at a meeting of the Charleston Junior League. Liberalism is mostly about social issues now, and class seldom enters the picture. When it does, it's usually in the context of griping about how unenlightened and crude those people are.

Because I believe that the ancient, ceaseless conflict between those who have and those who don't is at the center of politics, I'm not very comfortable identifying with a movement that apparently thinks class is not very important. That's why I think of myself as a progressive.

[Krupskaya]

32. Hey, QC, thanks for the benefit of the doubt!

I really appreciate it!

[QC]

40. Sorry about that, but the vehemence of your post,

I hate "progressive." Hate it, hate it, hate it. With the heat of a thousand suns, made it hard not to take a bit of personal offense. And the accusation that progressives are just cowards afraid to claim the glorious name of liberals gets thrown around every time we have this discussion, which seems to be every week or so. Having to defend oneself against the same false accusation so often can make one a bit quick on the trigger. So I do apologize.

Anyway, as you can see from other posts here, including mine, there are many of us who believe that there is a genuine difference between liberal and progressive.

[Krupskaya]

43. I think there's a difference as well.

And the difference I see is the reason I call myself liberal and avoid progressive caucuses.

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about progressives being cowardly or afraid to admit who they are.

The progressives in my area are the same ones who brand themselves "socially liberal, but fiscally conservative!" so as to not scare the possible swing voters. The people I deal with who call themselves progressives embrace Howard Dean as the ultimate in Democratic leadership (while to me he just looks like a centrist who happens to be loud). The people I deal with who call themselves progressive seem, TO ME, to have the most annoying trait of any political party: lots of grand ideas of how to tell people how to live without any ideas about paying for it (gotta stay fiscally conversative, doncha know).

Finally, opposite from what you say, the progressives I work with and against at the same time seem to have no concept of class issues. They have abandoned the unions -- especially the building trades -- except when looking for endorsements or money, then they're friends of "working families" and can't wait to tout their union creds ("My grandpa was a union man, and that's where I learned the importance of unions! YEAH!"). Not that any are members, of course.

The one issue that sums up my annoyance with "progressivism," while it might seem trivial, is the stadium issue. Here in MN, a new stadium issue has come up every couple of years. The progressives swarm out en masse against public funding for a stadium. As a union member and as a spouse of a union carpenter, I'm all for huge building projects that will provide hundreds of jobs for union builders. But try getting through to a progressive about that. Next election, though, they're right there, lining up for union endorsements and money.

Anyway. Thanks for the apology. And now, as you can see, I have my own personal issues with progressives that possibly don't apply to the people you work with and likely don't apply to you. So I apologize for attacking the whole for the actions of a few.

[QC]

66. I think you raise an interesting point....

Nice bourgeois liberals, the same people who made the word "liberal" mean "affluent people who cry over the lettuce pickers but don't give a shit about oppressed labor closer to home" are now in the process of appropriating the word "progressive." That's not something I'm happy about, to say the least.

If you want to know how my political views run, read the excellent Molly Ivins quote in post #63. And I do believe that when we rediscover class, we will start winning elections again, but not until then.

[kaho]

51. ...but it's an important point isn't it?

...I like the passion expressed. "The heat of a thousand suns".
Wonderful wonderful. Where have we heard it before? Something to do with Hiroshima, Oppenheimer?
But I agree. I really dislike (too much of a coward to say hate) the term progressive.
Please refer to my earlier post, but I think that "progressive" can only be used if defined. And if undefined, it can be used against us as opponents see fit. Progressive implies a clearly defined goal. What is that goal exactly?
Liberal Libertarianism perhaps?

[Kahuna]

59. So do I. It sounds really snobbish to me. Or maybe it's the way..

that some "progressives" use it to laud their superiority over the rest of us.

[AngryAmish]

31. pissed off

[Ann Arbor Dem]

33. I'm with you!

I'm a liberal, have always been a liberal (even before birth, I think), and always will be a liberal.

[senseandsensibility]

34. Cool!

No one should be afraid to say it! I'm a liberal!! :)

[kaho]

53. ...but not a progressive?

...forgive me for being provocative.

I prefer the term liberal too, and think it can be re-claimed on the basis of its historical values.

But "progressive"?

[nomaco-10]

35. What makes you think Johnny Carson was a liberal?.......

Is it just because he was fortunate enough to die in his sleep in his Malibu mansion at the old age of 79 after spending the last twenty five years sailing around the world on his private yacht in between playing tennis matches and poker games with his inner circle of friends?

Johnny Carson was probably a pretty nice guy, but let's not make him out to be a martyr. I think Johnny, himself would not like being set up in this fashion, may he rest in peace.

You have little more to do than scan the LBN here, or watch your local news to find the real heroes in our country, they abound amongst us daily.

Edited for spelling, the content remained unchanged.

[senseandsensibility]

38. His good friend

was on Al Franken's show and confirmed that Carson was a "flaming liberal." I don't recall saying that he was the most heroic liberal ever, nor do I think that, obviously. My message line may give some hint as to my feelings in that regard.

[Califooyah Operative]

36. both,

i don't consider them to have the same meaning. I consider my self to be both. Mainly progressive though.

[John_H]

37. Definitely Progressive

It's real admirable like to sling the liberal and loud shtick all over DU but in the actual world of 'merican politics the fight's not worth the time and energy better spent fighting a different battle.

First of all, it's just a lable. And it's a lable that the rethugs and the mediawhores have made into a very real liability. I'm liberal. Your liberal. Whoopie-doo. Dems running for office should be progressives, if it avoids easy point scoring for the enemy.

[kaho]

54. Label's

...are just that.
Republicans are conservatives. Conservatives are Republicans.
Democrats are progressives, liberals, lefties, greenies and Naderites.
Please add any others I've missed.
Oh...Republicans are fascists, rethugs and mediawhores.
All very helpful isn't it?

[kodi]

39. Liberal, as JFK would say.......

http://www.liberalparty.org/JFKLPAcceptance.html

A Liberal Definition by John F. Kennedy:
Acceptance Speech of the New York
Liberal Party Nomination
September 14, 1960

<snip>

"I would like to say what I understand the word "Liberal" to mean and explain in the process why I consider myself to be a "Liberal," and what it means in the presidential election of 1960.

"In short, having set forth my view -- I hope for all time -- two nights ago in Houston, on the proper relationship between church and state, I want to take the opportunity to set forth my views on the proper relationship between the state and the citizen. This is my political credo:

"I believe in human dignity as the source of national purpose, in human liberty as the source of national action, in the human heart as the source of national compassion, and in the human mind as the source of our invention and our ideas. It is, I believe, the faith in our fellow citizens as individuals and as people that lies at the heart of the liberal faith. For liberalism is not so much a party creed or set of fixed platform promises as it is an attitude of mind and heart, a faith in man's ability through the experiences of his reason and judgment to increase for himself and his fellow men the amount of justice and freedom and brotherhood which all human life deserves.

"I believe also in the United States of America, in the promise that it contains and has contained throughout our history of producing a society so abundant and creative and so free and responsible that it cannot only fulfill the aspirations of its citizens, but serve equally well as a beacon for all mankind. I do not believe in a superstate. I see no magic in tax dollars which are sent to Washington and then returned. I abhor the waste and incompetence of large-scale federal bureaucracies in this administration as well as in others. I do not favor state compulsion when voluntary individual effort can do the job and do it well. But I believe in a government which acts, which exercises its full powers and full responsibilities. Government is an art and a precious obligation; and when it has a job to do, I believe it should do it. And this requires not only great ends but that we propose concrete means of achieving them.

"Our responsibility is not discharged by announcement of virtuous ends. Our responsibility is to achieve these objectives with social invention, with political skill, and executive vigor. I believe for these reasons that liberalism is our best and only hope in the world today. For the liberal society is a free society, and it is at the same time and for that reason a strong society. Its strength is drawn from the will of free people committed to great ends and peacefully striving to meet them. Only liberalism, in short, can repair our national power, restore our national purpose, and liberate our national energies.

[kaho]

55. Wonderful...

...thank you for that.
That excerpt contains a blueprint for change. Change and reform needed right now.
JFK's liberalism could stand and win .

I have in front of me, on my wall his 1961 Inaugural Address.

"....Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and success of liberty."

I wonder what JFK's response to 9/11 would have been?

[leanin_green]

41. Aware. I am LIBERALMAN!!!

Look, hugging that tree, is it a bird? Is it a bear? No, it's LIBERALMAN!!!

Mildly known as leanin'_green and working for the state of Utah. At a moments notice at the cry of the poor and politically unsure, our hero leaps to action and with a rappier wit slices and dices even the most potent of Right Wing attackers. It's LIBERALMAN!!!

Fighting for truth in rhetoric, social justice and the LIBERAL WAY!!!

[senseandsensibility]

42. LOL

Way to go, Liberalman! That would be a cool screen name, too!:-)

[applegrove]

46. Liberal is a beloved word outside the US.

Liberal is a beloved word outside the US. Progressive sounds silly. Don't let them separate you from who you are and the long tradition of Liberalism.

Did you know that in the texts, Neocons are really known as New Liberals?

Liberal Democracies are how most Western Nations are described (even when the conservatives get into power).

It is all a neocon plan to steal the word Liberal from you. It is a beautiful word. And it has a long and proud history of being open to new idea and open to the world. It is the conservatives who are a closed shop.

Do not let them steal that word from you.

[kaho]

77. Bravo!

[suigeneris]

56. There's no question in my mind.

I'm a liberal and proud of it. Liberals have accomplished every victory for social justice since the Constitution was written and their unvarying foes have been conservatives.

I'm not letting conservatives smear the finest characterization in politics without spitting in their face. I go out of my way to use the term and point out every historical conservative abomination I can think of.

[rman]

57. labels have become meaningless, focus on issues

-

[Kahuna]

60. Amen to that, rman.

:thumbsup:

[demwing]

65. Agreed. See Post #63

and any subsequent thread.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

61. Liberal all the way baby nt

[Skidmore]

62. You need to be a liberal to be

progressive. Conservatives are by definition "do nothings" and for the status quo. Change for them is always steps backwards. Liberals entertain a broad range of ideas and accept a more varied constituency. Because of that, change for liberals generally seeks to move society forward so that it progresses. I am happy to use either term. I am a progressive liberal--my boss calls me "radical", another label I wear proudly.

[sadiesworld]

63. Populist.

"Populists, as opposed to liberals, do not get particularly excited about culture wars. We do not believe the important differences in this country are about smokers versus nonsmokers or wine versus beer drinkers. This fight is not about yoga and vegetarianism. It is not about lifestyles. It is not about religion. Keep your eye on the shell with the pea under it. It is about who's getting screwed, and about who's doing the screwing. And anybody who tells you different is lying for money."
-Molly Ivins

[demwing]

64. Excellent.

I found myself agreeing down the line.

Republicans have made this war one of lifestyles. Who drinks lattes, who drives a Volvo, who eats a French cheese and drinks a Napa Vally wine?

Who sleeps with whom, and what church do they attend, if any?

Those are the core issues that separate Liberals and Conservatives, as dictated to the poor and middle class by the would-be corporate masters of the Earth.

And I quit. Right now, I quit playing their game.

Populism, as our dear Ms. Ivins explains, is the key to our future. Its not about your sexual preference, but about whether you screw, or get screwed!

As long as we juggle issues that shift the focus away from populist, political warfare, we will never affect any real change.

You want to take away the negatives from the word Liberal? Here's how:

Neuter it.

Make it uninmportant to the issue at hand. Let go of Liberal, 100%. Let the damn Democratic party become the populist party, let it accept Liberals, Conservatives, Progressives, Radicals, and Centrists, equally, and without bias, as long as its members share the one key concern.

Are YOU getting screwed? Then join the Populist Resistance!

Ivins is dead on right.

[Ashamed_American]

67. I'm a liberal, and damn proud of it.

I have always been a liberal, well before I cared about politics.

I don't care if it is one day made to look like the world's largest sin, I will always post the big liberal sign straight across my forehead for the world to see.

We have become the political refugees, looking for shelter, looking for the home that has been lost. Looking for that savior to help us rise to recognition once again (is it Dean?)

We must fight to take America back. A liberal America, as it was meant to be.

They may cloud the definition of the word, but as long as you know and understand its meaning and history, may you always feel secure and proud to call yourself a liberal.



www.BlackEyedSundays.com

[demwing]

68. I don't care what you call yourself

There's no shame in being a Liberal, but honestly, there's no benefit either.

Liberal, Conservative, Radical, Centrist...we are ALL equal under the screw.

And as long as we think that the solution is to push a Liberal agenda, or fight a Conservative agenda, then we are stuck in a battle of lifestyles, which is exactly where our coporate sponsors would like for us to stay!

Why?

Because then we do nothing to change the real problems in America, none of which are rooted in issues concerning lifestyle, but all of which are rooted in an imbalance of power.

Environmental sanity, economic justice, peace, and democracy itself are being threatened.

How does one's sexual preference, religious affiliation (if any), skin color, or family lifestyle affect any of those core issues?

They do not!

But we will keep fighting for/against them--partly because its right to fight for them--but mostly because the corporate sponsors WANT us to fight about them. They frame all issues as "family values," cut the country into red and blue states, get us mad at each other with a few, wellplaced unsults, then fade into the background and laugh at us!

Feel NO shame at being a Liberal, but at least recognize that there is room at the inn for all Sneeches. Star-bellied or not, because we are ALL getting screwed in this game.

Populism is the uniting factor, it is the key to building a coalition that will help win elections, to get us to a point in this country where we can afford to debate issues of lifestyle, because our water, our air, our bank accounts, our retirement funds, our peace, and our democracy will have already been saved!

I'm happy to sit down with a Liberal, or a Conservative, or a Progressive, or a Libertarian, or my Aunt-fucking-Sally, in order talk populism, and bring about some real change in a populist USA--assd it was truly meant to be.

Peace :)

[American Tragedy]

72. We SHOULDN'T have to debate those issues, but they started the fight!

I've never pushed a Liberal agenda on anyone. I don't give a damn about anybody's sexual preference, religious affiliation, race, or family lifestyle. I support freedom and civil rights for all such persuasions, but it is not the place of the government to actively advocate nor discourage any of them.

It's the religious authoritarians on the other side of the political spectrum who seek to control our bodies and minds via law enforcement and government social engineering. There is nothing I hate more than debating the private lives of citizens, but Republicans decided to make it a public issue.

They started this fight, and I'm not about to fucking give in. This is about individual liberty.

[demwing]

73. And therein lies the trap

"it is not the place of the government to actively advocate nor discourage any of them"

You are absolutely right.

But while you are being right, and fighting the good fight on the right hand, the corporate sponsors are reaping the benefits of their power-base, un-challenged by ANYONE, because we are too busy fighting over these civil liberties we hold so dear.

This is a big freaking country, and there is plenty of room for opposite minded people to co-exist. The reason we don't is because a small group of people want us to bicker amongst ourselves.

The amazing thing is that if we were to stop fighting the right/left fight, and temporarily unite the right and left under the banner of populism, we might have a chance at beating these bastards, and then we would eliminate the very source that continues to seed the battle of discontent between the right and the left.

[Just Me]

69. I love it (that quote)!!!

Perhaps I should adopt the label "Populist Progressive". :bounce:

Since we appear to be engaged in a "War of Words" these days, I think I should better clarify what I mean when I say I am fiscally conservative.

Fiscally conservative, to ME, means spending within specific parameters (eg for "the people's" best interests rather than funnelling public wealth to a few corporatists) and in a transparent and accountable manner. Apparently, many view "fiscal conservatism" as being something very different from my perspective. So, perhaps, I should state that I believe in fiscal accountability and transparency rather than hold myself out as a "fiscal conservative".

[demwing]

70. kick this thread

:kick:

[MissMarple]

71. Liberal is more ideology, Progressive is a way to get things done. IMHO.

Now, who are the people who don't believe our government should focus first on the welfare of its'individual citizens, that we should be at the mercy of random, even predatory market forces? I will suggest radical regressives, even predatory regressives. I'm sure there are more creative terms.

[pbartch]

74. I call myself a MODERATE

[kaho]

78. ..I'm an EXTREME moderate...

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

75. Presently, liberally progressive,...

though me'thinks, I could become progressively liberal, ...relatively speakin o'corsse.

[Eric J in MN]

76. I call myself a liberal.

But I have a feature on my blog:
http://moveleft.com

called "Progressive Person-of-the-Week" for alliteration.

[Guaranteed]

79. I agree. Liberal's the way to go. nt

[orleans]

80. hard call

if i hear "tax and spend liberal" one more time i'm going to throw up (and it won't be pretty--i'm eating macaroni salad now)

then there are the "bleeding heart liberals" (which i probably tend to be one of)

we could always become the "tax and spend progressives"??

but by the time the enemy puts two & two together and realizes we are the same people--it will be too late! we'll have won the house, the senate, the presidency!! and thrown this administration's collective ass into prison!

(and now for another bedtime fairytale...the story of the big, bad wolfowitz who huffed and puffed so hard he finally got his army to blow down another country)

[dcn112]

81. I prefer progressive

even though I consider myself to be a moderate. Progressives seem to be more concerned more with economics, as I am. I really don't like being called a liberal. I feel like there is a strong association with Hollywood, and I would actually like to burn the place down. If you are proud to be called a liberal than that's find by me. By media standards I think we're all hardcore socialists anyways.

[marcologico]

82. Massachusetts liberal

and if we don't one in the White House soon there won't be anything left to govern but a pile of Enron stock certificates.