Democrats like Nelson, Landrieu, and Lieberman more afraid of Repubs

[kentuck]

..than their Democratic constituency. They shake in their sandals just thinking that Bush and the Repubs may come into their states and campaign against them. They are weak. They fear for their jobs more than care about standing for principles.

They have no fear that their Democratic constituency might turn against them. After all, they have voted against their interests many times and have never paid a price for it. And they will continue to exhibit their jello-spine characteristics until some Democrat in their state brings it to the people's attention and challenges their "right" to represent them in Washington.

[GRLMGC]

1. I'm afraid what they might do concerning SS

That's frightening to me

[kentuck]

2. They can't be trusted.

Why have a representative in Washington if you have no idea how they might vote on such a critical "Democratic" issue? There should be no hesitation about that vote. There is no need to wait to see if the wind changes course.

[GRLMGC]

10. that's true

I can trust my Senators (Dianne Feinstein might have cast shady votes in the past but I'm sure she won't screw up SS). However, I'm not sure about this Nelson guy or Landrieu for that matter. I guess these shaky votes are the ones who should be contacted the most heavily and pounded on the SS issue.

[BuyingThyme]

3. Liebercon is a lost cause...

Landrieu will be salvaged...again.

Nelson should do stand-up.

[Tinoire]

4. Kentuck- you're so right- they have NO principles

& have been whoring from the start. You either run as an effing Democrat who believes in Democratic ideals or you run as a Republican Lite. They're Republican Lites. Screw them because they're diluting and compromising away everything we stand for. They have NO "right" to represent real Democrats in Washington.

[Just Me]

24. But, but, are they "afraid" (which is different from HOing)?

I watched several of those individuals take a stand on other matters important to Americans which indicates that do adhere to certain principles.

I don't want to throw away those who are simply "afraid",...but rather give them the encouragement necessary for them to find their courage.

Tinoire, you are an incredibly informed, organized and passionate person. Do you ever do as I do and worry that we may be losing our sense of "understanding"? I've been a bit concerned that, without "understanding" as the core of my direction, I may be engaging in a form of self-defeatism.

The first thing that occurred to me about kentuck's post was,...geez, maybe they really ARE "afraid". I know what that's like. My next thought was that, if I personally ATTACK them, will that simply increase their fear?


What do you think? :shrug:

I want to be "effective" and avoid being "reactive".

[Tinoire]

31. How much can we depend on people who are "afraid"?

What concerns me though is that if that's the case, how much can we depend on people who are "afraid"? How much can we trust them?

We're in a fight for the soul of our party right now and I think that for too long the DLC types have been given a pass by using fear as an excuse. The entire movement, backed by corporations, wants to scare the entire Democratic base into being afraid and compromising.

You raise some good points about understanding but I think one of our problems is that we've been understanding for too long. There are certain issues I can understand some representatives compromise on even if I disagree. Abortion is one example. If the majority of good Democrats in their district are against abortion (as in a case where the population is predominantly Catholic), I can understand and I even agree because they're doing their job of representing their consituents' wishes. But there are too many cases where they went too far. The war was a prime example. Who was Lieberman representing when he drummed for the war and now is drumming for war against Iran? It wasn't the good people Democrats of Connetticut (sp?).

If Cynthia McKinney from Georgia of all places isn't afraid, why are they? Fear is our greatest enemy. Why is the movement they belong to, Lieberman's DLC, so willing to use that fear as a weapon? I really wish they'd decide once and for all who they're more afraid of- Republican or Democratic voters. At a time when our nation is so polarized over issues, who are these people representing? There's no real center anymore. Don't you find it a little strange that the more polarized we get, the more they talk about the need to stand in the center? The only thing in the center is corporations and not people.

I was a lot more understanding years ago but all I got for my understanding was more poor people, more Palestinians killed, more pandering to corporations, more war, and more money to the war machine. That's when my understanding went out the window. The Iraq war issue slammed that window shut.

Touche though... Thanks for the thought-provoking question. It's truly good we still have people like you around because my French blood is ready to roll out the old rusty guillotine and get on with a revolution. I think the Left is too understanding in this country. When I was in Germany I remember being amused at huge protests because the government wanted students to pay a measly immatriculation fee (or something along those lines- it was really pennies) and everyone got out in the streets refusing to budge, refusing to let the government take them down that slippery slope. The same thing happened in France and education is still free there. What has our understanding gotten us? Even our State Universities aren't free.

I'm glad you're around though to keep me from yelling "Off with their heads" too loudly ;)

On edit: Thank you for the flattering compliments though I think you're way too kind.

[candy331]

35. "I think the Left is too understanding in this country."

So very true!

[cyclezealot]

5. These spineless jelly fish Demos.

Vote with the Repugs...they make me sick...They might as well offically be repugs...Libermann...Looked like Bush kissed the B@@@ard..If me, I would have kissed Bush back on the lips to see if it would have given him a stoke and died..
These couple of turn coats colaborate with Bush and bushie calls it bipartisan..Sort of like Bushie's 'coalition of the willing.'

[rodeodance]

8. scared of their shadows is more like it

[stray cat]

6. Republicans are their main constitutients.

They are afraid the numbers are against them and they may be right. Certainly there are many more Bush supporters than Kerry supporters in most of their states.

They are afraid of getting booted like Daschle. We need to make the republican senators that represent our states afraid of us.

[cyclezealot]

9. Not the case fo Liebermann in Connecticut..

it went overwhelmingly to Kerry..Why account for Chris Dodd.?

[BornaDem]

18. You are correct...

at least as far as Nelson and Landrieu are concerned. If it weren't for the number of Republican votes they receive, they would not be in the senate. I don't know about Lieberman, just don't know enough about Conn. voters and the division between R's, D's, and I's. We are going to either unseat or scare the hell out of Republicans who are senators in blue states if we get organized to do it in '06. If we can pick off Santorum in my state (PA) we can send a message to the rest of them.

[hiley]

7. We have to go at them and the state party

All that I know to do is to bitch at them repeatedly and I starting in own ark. dems to challenge him with someone who votes with our Party !
Mark Pryor has really done it !

Senator Mark Pryor (Arkansas)http://www.pryor.senate.gov/email_webform.htm
Senator Joe Lieberman (Con.)http://www.lieberman.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm?regar... Senator Mary Landrieu (L) :http://www.landrieu.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm
Senator Ben Nelson (Nebraska) :http://www.bennelson.senate.gov/email.html

Senator Ken Salazar (Colorado)http://www.salazar.senate.gov/contactus.cfm

Senator Bill Nelson (Florida)http://www.billnelson.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm#emai...

Letter to my Senator

Senator Pryor,

Can you please explain to me why you voted to confirm Alberto Gonzales ? Why do you approve of a torture I am so serious ! I have written many times to you about this and understand the mail 9/11 thing but do not understand why you don't have a response with email like almost every other Senator or Represenative that I write to. Sir, you are a very busy man but it is timely for everyone.

Even Rep. John Boozman writes back everytime time I contact him. He is a Republican, even and everyone knows I am not.

My husband and I both would like to know why you voted to confirm Condoleezza Rice, after the way she answered or not answered questions and tryed to play victim to Senator Barbara Boxer.

We also want to know why you voted with the Republicans again on such a core Democratic issue as fighting against torture. All 6 Democratic Senators that voted for Gonzales should have voted with their party on principle. The Republicans accused the Democrats of racisum with Rice and Gonzales. How could you leave them hanging ?

What do you think about Senator Edward Kennedy's speech and the letter he released ?

How do you feel about the way some Republican Senator's attacked his dead brother Robert Kennedy ?

Do you know very much about blogs and bloggers, because they are very upset with your votes ? I am not telling you to be contary it is what I have read and feel.
WE want Democrats to stand up to the Bush Administration all of the time when it is apparent they are wrong.

When it is all said and done America just condoned the torture AGAIN !


The "Moral Values" that they are always talking about are not true values. The Gay hating, Muslim-bashing all of it needs to be stopped.
We can not put up with the complete destruction of the environment and cramming their religious view points down everyone esle's throat.

The Iraq War has to end,
we have lost over 1400 troops, over 10,000 wounded and many of them have lost a limb or
more.
Then to top it off over 100,000 dead Iraqi Civilians. I will write it again 100,000 !

I will be looking forward to your response to all my questions.


Usually, I would write a little more respectful. But he has not been responding worth a shit for quite awhile. Any of you want to write him ?
:nuke:

[pacalo]

11. I'm done with Mary.

I've called & written to her many times to no avail. Not only has she voted contrary to what I've requested, but she has never responded to any of my mail.

She does represent a red state, & I think the fact that Vitter has taken Breaux's seat has caused Mary to kiss up to the Repugs; she's decided to overlook principles to keep her job safe.

[i miss america]

12. Maybe there's still hope for her & that she'll stop and smell the roses

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x318552

[cestpaspossible]

13. Find those primary challengers.

It is a difficult road, but the only one that leads to the destination.

[R. Carlson]

14. Actually, the real problem that the Democrats have...

...is that they are thinking about positioning instead of getting back down into the trenches, getting their hair mussed and their hands dirty and standing up for liberty, real democracy, justice, compassion, tolerance, education, equal rights, the environment, fairness, openness, accountability, creativity, the arts, a war not vs. oil-controlling despots but vs. things like poverty and lack of education.

They're so wrapped up in their own little game that they've forgotten how to kick ass with liberal causes.

[cyclezealot]

16. Maybe in Liebermann's case it is becasue he is beholden

to insurance interests in Hartford...
If Democrats were to explain working class interests to red necks in red states and explain how seen they will be living on the 'planation' maybe the reds' would turn around when they see which side their bread is buttered on.? doubt it...As Vidal calls the US..The united states of amnesia..
To search out real Democratic fighters who give Repugs. fits...Read this week's "Nation.."
titled..."Bad Ass Democrats".
my hassle with this weeks Nation....Bad Ass Democrats...did not mention Dennis Kucinich...Dennis should be listed for his fight on Government Reform Committee to find where Paul Bremmer's $ 9 billion went unaccounted for in Iraq...that is a real fight..With a free Congress in power. should be cause for impeachment.
Bad ass Democrats listed...Henry Waxman and Sen. Durbin..

[Dr Fate]

15. they care more about what the media & "swingvoters" think of them...

..than they care about how their hardworking base feels about them.

Those are some screwed up priorities.

[BillZBubb]

17. They are examples of why the Democrats always lose big elections

No spine, no core beliefs worth fighting for. There are always a good number of Democrats who crater on any issue.

It's time the Democrats got organized and announced to the country exactly what they stand for as a party. And then they have to actually do the "standing" for once. Those who can't fight should be asked to leave the party.

[Freddie Stubbs]

19. Which Nelson are you referring to?

There are two Democrats named Nelson in the Senate.

[DeaconBlues]

20. Well, Ben Nelson from Nebraska refuses to say whether he will vote

for or against Bush's social security plan, and he actually went to Bush's pep rally in Omaha yesterday. He votes with the Republicans more than his own party, so he must be the Senator whose going to buckle.

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. He represents a red state and is up for reelection next year

He never would have been elected to the Senate if he had been a liberal.

[NEDem]

32. Then how do you explain

why and how Bob Kerry was elected Governor and US Senator. Bob Kerry is a Liberal and frankly I think he could come back here and win again.

I'm not disagreeing with your statement. The people here generally go for the "conservative" but once in a while they do something strange.

[Freddie Stubbs]

40. Bob Kerrey hasn't won an election in 11 years

Many of these red states are becoming more conservative. Take South Dakota for example. Tom Daschle was elected state-wide seven times, yet he was unable to win reelection last year.

[DeaconBlues]

37. I'm sick and tired of excuses like "he's from a conservative state"

If you aren't going to vote with the party then leave the party. To me, being a poser and a Dino is worse than actually being a republican. If you live in a conservative state, then work to change the minds of the people in the state, don't change your beliefs to match the way the wind is blowing.

[Freddie Stubbs]

39. The job of a Senator is to represent the voters of their state

not ideologues from other states. If the voters of Nebraska don't like the job that he is doing, I'm sure that they will replace them.

[Still_Loves_John]

21. Well some of them DO have more to fear from Republicans

Lieberman is an exception, but Mary Landrieu, for example, is from a state with a Republican majority. Most of her constituency likes what she's doing, and, believe it or not, a few votes don't turn her into a DINO. She's been able to stand for Democratic causes while still pleasing her constituency, but that doesn't mean she can speak for the far left on everything, because, simply put, she doesn't speak for the far left. She speaks for Lousiana. You can't have a whole Senate full of Barbara Boxers and Ted Kennedys, because they can't get elected in every state, and every Democrat to the right of them isn't necessarily a DINO.

[leyton]

23. The most rational, considered post I've read in a long time.

Thank-you.

[Just Me]

25. I remember Mary making a very impactful speech about the Iraq war.

NO WAY will I add her to my "enemy" list.

I really do not understand why she voted "yes" on Gonzales. However, I simply have to assume it related to pressure from her constituents and "base". Otherwise, I cannot imagine her choice.

I've watched this lady. She is genuine and caring and concerned. We NEED folks like her. I don't want to "throw away" the genuinely intimidated. I want to STRENGTHEN them so that they will be encouraged to express their principles.

We cannot just throw people away. Not now. Not with the predators on their march.

We just can't do that.

[Tinoire]

34. How about we put them up against more Progressive candidates?

When was that impactful speech against the war? I'd like to listen to it because I don't have anything personal against Landrieu. I only judged her by her votes and she did vote for the war.

I've been very busy lately these last few days and didn't follow te Gonzalez affair too closely because I knew he'd get it.

I read this though:

The Republicans get their way thanks to the votes of six "so-called" Democrats: Landrieu, La.; Lieberman, Conn. (as usual); Nelson, Fla.; Nelson, Neb.; Pryor, Ark.; Salazar, Colo.
http://www.juliusblog.blogspot.com/

What does it say for those people when Democrats finally get around to representing us and saying that Gonzalez isn't fit to be Attorney General and those guys break rank? They've stabbed us in the heart with that vote because Gonzalez isn't Bush's AG- he's your AG and my AG. The more I think about that, the angrier I feel but I deliberately intend to avoid getting too angry because I'm beginning to get seriously scared for us. How much good does it do us to have them call themselves Democrats if they vote with Republicans?

[kentuck]

26. I reallly will not lose sleep if they lose their next election.....

even if that puts us in the minority....Oh...never mind....we are already in the minority...

[sunnystarr]

27. I could accept that except ... what about the Republicans from

blue states? Aren't there any? And if there are then why don't they worry about their re-election?

[Still_Loves_John]

33. They do

Most Republicans think of Arlen Spectre the same way some here think about Mary Landrieu. Of course, some here would say that Arlen Spectre isn't a moderate, but there are freeper types who would say the same thing about Mary Landrieu.

[w4rma]

28. Lieberman isn't afraid of the Republicans. The others are. (nt)

[kentuck]

29. I would prefer a Democrat that voted on principles....

rather than fear...They may not be deserving of office if they covet it so that they vote in fear of losing their power. Just my opinion.

[w4rma]

30. Lieberman votes on principles. They often aren't Democratic principles

however.

[KoKo]

36. I don't think it's "fear." I think it's lobbing money. We just don't

have the facts...but one day it will come out.

[fujiyama]

38. Landrieu and Nelson

have an excuse. They're both from red/red leaning states. It's not much of an excuse. In fact it's a pretty poor one, but it's an excuse nevertheless.

Lieberman OTOH has none. Bush kissed him as an exhange for his getting kissed on the A$$ by Lieberman all these years.