Bit of advice to DUers. We know we are read by some newspushers, so....

[blm]

concentrate on starting threads on topics WE want to see covered in the media. Put up info that deserves more mainstream coverage.

What I think defines this board is the mountain of information that is crucial to the preservation of our democracy, but, the mainstream neglects in fear of retribution from BushInc and their corporate masters. Some of them are just plain ignorant of the actual facts.

They try to define us using any post that spews hatred towards our own Democrats or the ever-popular calls for anarchy. Add some of the "extremely depressed" posts and they get away with defining us as demoralized and just "bitter" and helpless.

I think we should use the board as a deposit for information that CANNOT be ignored any longer.

Let Dean's ascendency to DNC chair mark an era where the media is FORCED to cover us as a real source of much needed information. Let's become MASTERS of MEDIA-BLASTING.

[quaoar]

1. One way to do that

is to respond to such articles that are already posted.

[paineinthearse]

3. Agree!

It's easy to get caught up in the most recent discussions. Resist the temptation to dwell there, instead comb/search for posts by those who have a demonstrated history of posting quality material.

[Merlot]

2. Agreed.

We need to emphasize how much we need to see these stories and issues covered in the MSM.

[paineinthearse]

4. In response to Skinner's recent post concerning "democratization"....

...what if the process now used for the nomination and selection of home page posts were to be opened? Move all posts that have received 10(?) nominations for home page into a seperate forum. That would create a middle tier between the "best" and the "routine".

[CAcyclist]

21. Or create a separating system

whereby the items in the lounge do not show up on the latest page or start on the bottom part of the page.

I think a lot of space is wasted by lounge topics and while they are fun and a needed release , if you want to go to the lounge, you could go directly there - you don't need to have lounge topics on the latest page.

[blm]

31. I would appreciate that feature.

Some days it can get pretty discouraging.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

5. Amen. More INFO, less sloganeering and 'my cats' eating up bandwith.

Use good journalism as a model.

Clear, concise, informative subject lines.

Well-chosen representitive excerpts.

Clear distinctions between your own words and the cited source.

Your own words perhaps suggesting a larger context of the specific story.

Connect the story to its context in the news cycle so it isn't a 'peep-hole'-view.

Example: When the Ward Churchill flap came up, I posted that it was a diversion from soon-to-be revealed documents of US-Nazi complicity. Sure enough, that is exactly what happened. The key word was 'Eichmann' in both stories. Bingo.

This is how 'news' analysis works by connecting the dots.

[housewolf]

14. Whining & Complaining

What if we had a "Crying Room" forum where people could go to post their emotional posts - the venting, outrage, anger, fear, hurt, disapproval, criticism, etc?

It's part of our nature to have those feelings, to express them and to commiserate with others and for many, DU has been a fabulous support in that regards. Others don't want to see it all the time and feel that it contributes to the image that the left is nothing but a bunch of whiners and critics who "eat their own."

Would it be possible to have a unique forum for posts of this nature? Would we use it???

[moggie12]

6. Excellent post -- less whining,more real information-exchange

And more of an action-oriented slant, too. This should be a place where we not just exchange info, but we organize to do something!!!

Look at this post where a DUer spent hours putting together petitions and other things we should think about signing:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1567444

She got 10 freakin' responses!!!! Meanwhile, there are posts every day with 50-100+ replies where all people are doing is fighting with each other!!

[housewolf]

13. Activism

""And more of an action-oriented slant, too. This should be a place where we not just exchange info, but we organize to do something!!!"

I agree.

But don't we have that with the "Activism & Events" forum?

[moggie12]

16. Activism & Events forum seems very lightly used

It looks like there are 5 replies per day on average to all the posts made there -- whereas the cumulative number of replies made daily to posts made in three biggest forums (GP, GDP and Lounge) seem to number in the hundreds, possibly thousands.

Talking about what's going on is great, but I'd also like to see a greater emphasis on activism. This seems like a great place to organize. The French Underground during WWII didn't just discuss how bad the Germans were, they helped the Allies and went out and blew up a few bridges! During campaign season there's lots to do to help out Democratic candidates, but there's much we can and should be doing during the lull between battles.

(Like my war imagery? -- I really think we're in a war with the RW -- and so far we're losing.....)

[NoFederales]

19. Good information

is what I seek at DU, as well as keeping up to speed on many political fronts.

I do environmental activism at home, but don't post usually because it doesn't seem to be a mainstream concern that others would care to read or comment upon.

NoFederales

[blm]

24. True. Plus, news gatherers are most likely at GD or GDPolitics.

And it's the messages THEY receive that we should target.

[JoshK]

7. That's a gross mischaracterization of what this board is.

It's not at all a "mountain of information that is crucial to the preservation of our democracy." While there is from time to time a certain amount of real information here, most of what's here is a center for childish delusional whining. Almost no serious political analysis worthy of the name is even attempted. Anyone who makes a statement critical of Democrats is immediately assailed for "Dem bashing" and those posts (if not the entire threads, like the "Revolution" thread yesterday) are usually deleted by moderators.

DU is a place where Democrats get together electronically and whine about Republicans. To call it "crucial to the preservation of our democracy" calls to mind the phrase "delusions of grandeur." The basic assumption in these forums is that Republicans are fascists and the US is headed straight to hell, but that somehow, magically, the Democratic Party is not in any way responsible for this state of affairs and has remained magically pure in a time where the entire rest of the political system is in an advanced state of putrefaction. Your comment about "spewing hatred towards our own Democrats" is typical of the attitude that prevents any realistic acknowledgement of the many grievous weaknesses of the party and its candidates.

A frequently-voiced idea here is that "Kerry really won" the election. Does it occur to any of those who hold this view, that if you believe Kerry is intelligent, and that he was also reasonably serious about trying to win the presidency, that he would not likely concede the election without a struggle unless he was solidly convinced he had no chance at all to prevail? Or is your explanation for this that he is a great guy, and very informed and intelligent & serious about winning, but that he just happened to make one wee little error about who actually won the election, & that you for some reason are a better judge on this one point than he is?

As for how RW media types might make use of what appears on DU -- it doesn't matter, for the most part, what people here actually write, because the RW media will select only those parts that help them make their case. Even if 99% of the material here was rigorously objective and rational, which is hardly the case, the RW would still focus on the occasional bit of hysteria.

Finally, the idea that the mainstream media would be "FORCED" to listen to what people on DU have to say is utterly silly. It ignores why the MSM do what they do; it ignores the economic and political forces that explain MSM behavior. The MSM are big powerful companies with billions of dollars at their disposal. They align with the RW because it's in their financial interest to do so, and no matter how brilliant and true the posts on a small partisan Internet site were, these basic facts would not be altered in the slightest. (And in this case, of course, most of the posts are very far from brilliant, and not particularly true.)

[CTyankee]

8. I come to DU to get info I wouldn't get elsewhere

and I do have to comb it fine and use my best judgment as to what is exaggerated and what is valid. But I don't think we should stop posting good, solid information. It is unfortunate that the MSM picked up that truly frivolous item about the cause of the tsunami that made DU look ridiculous. And I think we have our suspicions about how that happened. But we shouldn't stop getting our solid info out there via DU. It certainly doesn't hurt and it may just help. The MSM is just a bit bothered that the Internet has encroached on their turf and I think that is a good thing.

[seemslikeadream]

9. childish delusional whining

see:
JoshK (112 posts) Sun Feb-06-05 01:42 PM
Response to Original message

7. That's a gross mischaracterization of what this board is.

One example of hundreds of DU threads with incredible information

Enron Chronology
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3061376

[Cha]

11. Sorry, your post shows you DO NOT

know what DU is all about.

[Vinnie From Indy]

12. Gee Thanks For Figuring It All Out For Us-What Would We have Done w/o You

It's not at all a "mountain of information that is crucial to the preservation of our democracy." While there is from time to time a certain amount of real information here, most of what's here is a center for childish delusional whining. Almost no serious political analysis worthy of the name is even attempted. Anyone who makes a statement critical of Democrats is immediately assailed for "Dem bashing" and those posts (if not the entire threads, like the "Revolution" thread yesterday) are usually deleted by moderators.


So why are you here whining? The only generalization that is ever absolutely true is that generalizations are never absolutely true. DU is like any social gathering place, there is wheat and there is chaff in the discussions. Intelligent people take the good and disregard the bad.

DU is a place where Democrats get together electronically and whine about Republicans. To call it "crucial to the preservation of our democracy" calls to mind the phrase "delusions of grandeur."

Anytime Americans gather to discuss their government without fear of reprisal, Thomas Jefferson smiles in heaven. Every time Americans gather to speak their minds without threat of imprisonment and torture James Madison smiles somewhere in heaven. There is no more "crucial" test of our freedom than the exercise of free speech, so in that respect the original poster is correct. But hey, I could write that so it sounds like a whine if you want.


The basic assumption in these forums is that Republicans are fascists and the US is headed straight to hell, but that somehow, magically, the Democratic Party is not in any way responsible for this state of affairs and has remained magically pure in a time where the entire rest of the political system is in an advanced state of putrefaction.

Again, your sweeping generalizations are just not true. You should be more precise with your language.

Your comment about "spewing hatred towards our own Democrats" is typical of the attitude that prevents any realistic acknowledgement of the many grievous weaknesses of the party and its candidates

I don't know what board you are reading, but this place is chock full of posters pointing out the "weaknesses" of Dem Candidates and the Dem Party. There are also plenty of extremely smart people willing to shoot down, correct or support the any of of the opinions posted here.

A frequently-voiced idea here is that "Kerry really won" the election. Does it occur to any of those who hold this view, that if you believe Kerry is intelligent, and that he was also reasonably serious about trying to win the presidency, that he would not likely concede the election without a struggle unless he was solidly convinced he had no chance at all to prevail? Or is your explanation for this that he is a great guy, and very informed and intelligent & serious about winning, but that he just happened to make one wee little error about who actually won the election, & that you for some reason are a better judge on this one point than he is?


You mean like his intelligent handling of the "Swift Boat" issue? Is that the type of genius you are referring to when you paint Kerry as making only ONE error in this last campaign? Who knows why Kerry didn't fight harder. One thing is certain, regardless of Kerry's actions there are still significant anomalies concerning the last election that have yet to be explained.

As for how RW media types might make use of what appears on DU -- it doesn't matter, for the most part, what people here actually write, because the RW media will select only those parts that help them make their case. Even if 99% of the material here was rigorously objective and rational, which is hardly the case, the RW would still focus on the occasional bit of hysteria.



Couldn't agree more with that passage.

Finally, the idea that the mainstream media would be "FORCED" to listen to what people on DU have to say is utterly silly. It ignores why the MSM do what they do; it ignores the economic and political forces that explain MSM behavior. The MSM are big powerful companies with billions of dollars at their disposal. They align with the RW because it's in their financial interest to do so, and no matter how brilliant and true the posts on a small partisan Internet site were, these basic facts would not be altered in the slightest. (And in this case, of course, most of the posts are very far from brilliant, and not particularly true.)



I agree with everything above but the size of DU. WE ARE ENORMOUS! :)

[robbedvoter]

15. Well thank you for honoring us all with your condescence.

I , as my handle show am one of the whiners whi thinks "Kerry really won" - or rather - "ABB won". And, yeah, Kerry did think that it wasn't worth putting up a fight for his victory - giving in was easier.
Is kerry's complacency proof of anything? maybe in your book. I know the facts. So, if you dislike DU so much, visit less.
Have a nice day.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

18. Information shared here often ends up in letters to the editor or emails

blasted to Keith Olbermann. If we inundate the media with our presence, they'll have to acknowledge at least some percent of it.

[seemslikeadream]

20. Perhaps you missed these threads JoshK

The Dogs of War
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=9558&mesg_id=9558

ALL WORKING LINKS FOR THREADS BELOW CAN BE FOUND HERE

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2921562#2923570




The DU 9/11 reading room
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

TERROR ALERT: If you don’t think the BFEE is capable of bombing our own -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Why do people say such TERRIBLE things about the Bush Family?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

OSWALD was CIA (OFFICIAL)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


!! Whaaaa!! 4/4/01 Fox show of government plot to hijacked planes ....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

It's time for another Bush/Nazis thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

DRAFT Timeline -- (must read) Shows how Bush plans June 15, 2005 LOTTERY
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Peak Oil - Okay, I'm terrified.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Bush Crime Family S.O.P. — Use a Patsy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

bin Laden's money flow leads back to Midland, Texas
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

DOJ Asked FBI Translator To Change Pre 9-11 Intercepts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Bush/Cheney White House "Busted" Over Sept 11th Claims
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Speculation: Joint US-Israeli invasion of Syria in the Fall?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Poll question: Do you think RFK was murdered as part of a conspiracy?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

A Short History of Saddam-Bush-Noriega Business
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

BFEE Treasure Trove
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The Bush Family: Who's the worst?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Case Closed- Conspiracy: The Dallas Doctors vs. JFK’s Autopsy Photographs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Paedophilic Repugs, rape, whoring, attempted murder and the BFEE,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Rumsfeld, Iran/Contra, Iraqgate, shaking hands with Saddam
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The Iran Hostage Crisis of 1980.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

BFEE Factbook: GW Bush, James R Bath & House of bin Laden
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

FBI intensively reviewing several high-profile neocons going back 30 years
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Spy Probe Scans Neocon-Israeli Ties/IPS--(going back 30 years!)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Spy Probe Scans Neo Con-Israel Ties PROMIS - INSLAW,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Call to Octafish: We need massive linkage on BCCI and IranContra.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Indira Singh/PTech deep moles in FAA help accomplish 9/11! WTF??
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

BUSH, Masons, 911 & The Knights Templar
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

CSPAN Radio to air RFK interview
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[sunnystarr]

22. Shoot ... none of your links worked lol (nt)

[seemslikeadream]

23. The second link is where all working links are for that group

sunnystarr

ALL WORKING LINKS FOR THREADS BELOW CAN FOUND HERE
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2921562#2923570

:hi:

Sorry that wasn't clear, fixed it

[Vinnie From Indy]

25. "Who's Whining Now" Isn't that a Connie Francis Tune?

C'mon Josh! I figured you would be eager to debate your sanctimonious screed with us whiners. The difference between a "whine" and an "opinion" can almost always be identified by the willingness of the poster to debate and discuss their post. It seems you fall squarely into the very same "whiner" camp that you complain about here on DU!

[Cha]

10. Great idea! I'm glad someone is

bringing this to all our attention. Like "Dems Will Win" said.."We need to become the media".

Cause they sure aren't going to do the job.

[HeeBGBz]

26. I thought DU was a community of freethinkers

Who could post on daily events in our community lives? Yes, it's important to get good information to the forefront. It's also important to discuss other things besides the destruction of our country.

The same people who we feel comfortable discussing how are country is run by thugs, should be people who we feel comfortable discussing other aspects of our lives.

We need to remind ourselves what we are fighting for. If that means kitty threads, superbowl threads, and copycat threads, it all evens out in what makes this website forum unique.

We are losing precious pieces of our lives daily. We are surrounded by ugliness and some of us have no progressives to commune with in our real-time neighborhoods. We should be able to discuss the things most dear to us. It is for these things we fight. Maybe not all can understand this need for idle chit-chat and call it frivolous. I think it is fuel that keeps us strong.

[blm]

27. There is a DU Lounge forum for that aspect of people's lives. I advocate

for greater cognizance from those who post in GD or GDPolitica, to be aware that news gatherers read these particular forums for ideas on how to define who we are and what is important to us as Democrats.

I am quite positive I say nothing in my original post about dissolving the Lounge.

[HeeBGBz]

29. Ah, I didn't see any specific mention of which forum

With regard to those specific forums, I agree with you on media blasting. I am always posting stuff I find here at other websites. I always need links and facts to back up my rants. The easier it is to find the info I need always makes me a happy poster.

I thought you were referring to DU in it's entirety.

[blm]

30. I expected that news gatherers wouldn't choose the Lounge for political

temperature taking.

Thanks for rereading.

[Just Me]

28. I agree. Let's focus on being informative.

Let's get off the "hate-spewing" train created by the radical rightists. It's gotten so out of hand that I have had to adopt a "hide thread" policy and even engaged in a form of counter-force threads. What a waste of energy.

We have some incredibly talented people who spend a great deal of time and energy organizing and posting impactful information and thoughtful analyses.

As a perpetual "student" of DU, I would appreciate the focus suggested on this thread.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

32. Organize your links, excerpts, cut and paste topics. Back up your views.

Some DU-ers flame back when presented with organized information as if this was a dirty trick...*sigh.*

I've learned alot here in two years and pass on what I can.

Save your links in a topic folder to go to when the topic arises.
Pick a good excerpt from each link.
Save your own best posts to re-use so you don't have to reconstruct from scratch.
Check out forums you don't go to very often.
Bookmark threads that are rich in good info.

Go to other websites with your information to spread the news so this isn't the only place with the benefit of your wisdom.

The mainstream media is afraid of us. We expose their deadly lies and are a threat to the whole propaganda matrix that makes fascism work in this country.

So be the media, not a spectator.