Democratic Party plummets in favorability ratings--among Democrats!

[BurtWorm]

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/index.html#democracy

The work ahead for Howard Dean



As Howard Dean prepares to take over the Democratic National Committee -- Donnie Fowler and Simon Rosenberg pulled out of the race over the weekend -- Stan Greenberg and James Carville are out with a new Democracy Corps memo on perceptions of the Democratic Party. The most troubling news: Democrats have seen their popularity plummet among . . . Democrats.

Republicans are "viewed more favorably overall than the Democrats, led by a crash of positive sentiment for the Democratic Party among voters who identify as Democrats," Greenberg and Carville write. "Republican voters look at the parties today much as they did before the election; among independents, regard for the Democrats dropped somewhat, though independents still prefer them to the Republicans. Democratic voters are another story: 'warm' feelings for the Democrats dropped 12 points (from 86 to 74 percent) since the election. It is the Democrats who are demanding something more, perhaps a reckoning."

The Democracy Corps memo <in PDF form> is available here.

[Nite Owl]

1. Well yeah

they messed up using the same old Repuke lite messages. Real Democrats know what they want and it isn't what they have been doing.

[calimary]

2. No kidding. Besides, winners ALWAYS look better than losers do.

I don't feel so enthusiastic about my party either, at the moment. Howard Dean's ascendance will change that.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

3. Dean's election

and the ass-kicking of Rethug-lites that will follow will reverse that trend.

[montanacowboy]

4. Hell Yes!

think they might get a clue????????????? duh

[TheOriginalAmerican]

5. I can understand why.

The Democratic Party is not knowing how to stick to their ground. Look at Hilary for example. What the hell is the matter with her? She's willing to act more right winged on abortion and immigration just to gain favor.

The Democratic Party is coming off as a party that lacks conviction, like people who care about nothing but getting voted in. It's time the Democrats said "This is what we stand for, and I won't back down".

[spooked911]

9. Yep. It's time for someone to stand strong on liberal principles.

and not be ashamed of it.

Someone like Wellstone.

[googly]

39. The Clintons are very smart politicians, but Clintons always put

themselves first before anything else.
If you have not seen that by now, I am surprised.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. No shit? Gosh, what a surprise.

As the Democratic leadership continues to toe the DLC line and back Shrub's policies with hardly a whimper, I am shocked that some Democrats take it amiss.

[jdots]

7. Now can we have a convention where they get real ?

The democrats will never act like robots but they have been too polite and too quick to back down. We have to get LOUD & PROUD again.

[spooked911]

8. All we want is someone with spine to stand up to the Rethugs

Boxer is good, Dean will be great. More like them, please!

[CWebster]

13. But at the same time

there is this call for Dean to improve on his reputation as a bomb thrower.

They really don't have a clue, do they? What we need are bomb throwers to put these bullies in their place. That is what we want, for crying out loud, not politicians out to satisfy their own personal ambition at the expense of fighting on the issues. Clinton and Kerry seem to be of the view that if you can't beat them, join them, and look where that got them.

[Skidmore]

10. But Carville & Shrum still don't get it.

The New Dems have been the death of the party.

[lojasmo]

11. Well, we've been cowtowing to the right to get "electable"

At least the republicans are genuine.


When given a choice between a republican and republican-light, people will chose the republican.

[katsy]

12. It's no wonder.

Thanks to the DLC's influence and the emergence of repub-light representatives of the Democratic party, average working class and poor Americans have been left behind.

This is why I support Dean as DNC chair. Democrats need to find their populist voice and stick with it. They need to shed their pro-corporate skin. The neocons represent corporations.

Democrats need to look their constituents in the eye and tell them their job is to defend America, the Constitution, the deficit, SS, the borders, taxpayer's $, education, healthcare... and it's the voter's job to take care of their own morals.

I think Dean can rally working class Americans.

At least I hope this is part of the problem because it can be fixed. If the problem is rooted deeply in religion, bigotry and abortion (thanks to the neocons), I'm afraid this country will go down in flames before Democrats win back the WH and Congress.

[MattG]

14. I think what we need to do as a party.

Is to exploit our place on the Center-left. We are the moderate and level-headed cousins of the crazy hippies, and we need to distance ourselves from crazy hippies and commies as much as we can, but still make sure that we keep a mean and strong eye forever on the Republican bastards. We need a candidate that inspires people, and not just liberal intellectuals. We really need someone who you could have a drink with and someone who is in touch with the common folk, but at the same time has the intelligence and experience in Government to know how to get things done. I'm really serious. We need to not have a Kerry/Edwards ticket but instead clone a mix of Kerry and Edwards. John Kerrwards a great candidate (The clone thing was a joke). We need someone who is kind of a smart-ass (donkey) and a bad-ass (donkey) who will get an attitude with the Repubs at the debates. We need someone that will talk to Repubs like Cheney or Cartman (same thing). We need someone who will sum up the feelings of all Democrats, crazy hippies to DLC folks. And the best thing we can do is stop calling names like Republican lite and crap like that. We're liberals, and the thing we do best is hold hands and be brotherly. So we need to band with all of our Democrat brothers because the last thing we want to do as a National Party is isolate people. We need to bring a whole lot of people back into the party. And I don't like it when people say "screw them" or whatever to some of the groups that used to vote democrat and don't anymore. The best thing we can do is show people what we're made of, and we can't sell a message of peace and compassion by isolating certain people out.


Thank you,

Matt

[podnoi]

15. Disagree - Need to move people to the left

20-30% of the country is extremely impressionable. 15% swings at a whim or event.

The answer is not to move further to the right. The answer is to stand for true Democratic Progressive principles and by standing strong against and calling the Repubs on their corrupt principles the momentum will be swung. It is already happening!

We all have friends that have been won over recently. The Republicans are losing credibility. We don't want to look like them! We want to show the Public we stand strong, and for a better way!

The worst thing we can do is be Repub lite. Nothing changes. And the public percieves weakness and Democratic support will weaken, not strengthen.

[ZootSuitGringo]

16. I agree with ya', matt

It is not about right or left, RINO and DINO, Repug Lite vs. Ice Cream. It's about being liberals, proud of it, explaining what that really means, and then showing the plans.

It will take a square jawed leader with determination and nerves of steel who enjoys kicking Republican ass to get this done as soon as possible.

That is what it will take.

and yes, everybody will come into our party then. Once they understand the plan and begin to see the vision; Left, right middle, up and down, they will all want to be part of the Democratic party then.

[salin]

19. Who are these crazy hippies and commies of whom you speak,

repeatedly? Been a democrat in four states - and have met very, very few people who would be considered "hippies" and even fewer who would be considered "commies". Unless, of course, one has picked up the 20 year of rhetoric of Limbaugh that equates any social spending as "communist". I agree with your call to appeal to all parts of the party and then some.... but isn't it odd to on the one hand ask for folks to stop calling names at other dems (eg repub lite) while on the other hand referring to "hippies and commies?"

[LWolf]

29. ?

Let me get this straight:

We need to stop calling names like "repub-lite," but....

we can still call our own "crazy hippies and commies" while we work to distance ourselves from them, as we invite them back into the fold?

:crazy:

My interpretation of what you are saying:

The Democratic Party (not "we;" not "liberals;) needs to finish the job of disenfranchising and "evicting" the left from the party and embrace the center-right. While they are banding together as brothers to make sure they don't isolate people.

I'm not part of that "we." I'm part of the left you refer to as a "crazy hippie." I'm one of the progressive liberals who has already been "left behind" by the move to the center, and who will no longer be showing up for the dance with another move to the right; I certainly won't be "coming back to the party."

[liveoaktx]

34. Pfffft! Crazy Hippies and Commies! Talk about isolating certain people out

What decade do you live in, again? How about stepping up into this century?

[katsy]

37. Disagree Matt.

No Matt. We don't "need" a contrived imaginery politician.

We will work with the talent we have. That is the reality the Democrats must overcome.

As to your suggestion about dropping the name calling... IMO, terms such as repub-lite, neocon or neodems are descriptions of a person's political philosophy. That is not unlike the term liberal or progressive or green.

You use the terms crazed hippies and commies which are derogatory. That is name calling.

If I wanted to call certain Democratic Senators names (i.e., Zell or Lieberman) I would just call them mother#$%^&* bastards. I would call them war mongers and corporate whores. Then I'd sit back and hope I don't get kicked off the boards!

On the other hand, when I want to describe Lieberman's political philosophy, I use SHORTHAND like "neodem" or "repub-lite" because their voting records reflect a right-leaning philosophy. I can't call poor Zell that because he's just plain old NUTZ.

The Democratic Party is, generally speaking, center right or paid corporate whores with few exceptions. I believe that the majority within the party have abandoned their populist voice in favor of amoral corporatism.

They can't win because they have abandoned their populist voice. They don't represent average working people.

Is it any wonder we keep losing elections? NO. Why would people bother voting for a republican democrat (shorthand=repub-lite).

As Salin pointed out in a post to you... how would you fight the hate talk show celebrities (see how nice I said that)? SPITBALLS?????

Our Leadership has been pretty honorable in fighting the neocon smear machines. They've been polite and refuted accusations in a noble manner. Did it win elections? NO.

[beltanefauve]

17. Safety Issues

My parents claim to be "Independents', but actually, they are Catholics, which tend to be a socially-Conservative swing group. The reality is that they, and many others, just don't trust the Dems to keep them safe. Osama on TV just before the election didn't help our cause. In the end, "Middle" America votes for whoever does the better job of scaring the bejeezus out of them.

Damn straight Repug Lite is a lose-lose proposition. But can we convince (convert) people that we'll keep them safe?

[CWebster]

18. Yeah, like attacking Iraq made us real safe.

How convenient that bin Laden pops up in such a timely fashion as a reminder. Now why would anyone who uses fear to win, want to put an end to what bin Laden represents?

Amazing that Repubs can terrorize and alienate the world, loot the treasury to benefit the corporate class, rob America's future, destroy the environment, dismantle the safety net, remove educational opportunity, threaten seniors with starvation, and some feel safer?

[salin]

20. There is vague threat but scary security... and then there

is in the pocket book, threaten the family (economic) security.

The irony is that the repubs, who folks like your folks just voted for, are now so emboldened they are pursuing a boatload of policies that will do the latter. The danger for them, is that folks - like your folks - will not just view this as a bush admin thing... but as a GOP thing.

Lets look at the most recent bush proposals... which come closer and closer to hitting at home:
Gutting social security with a approach that does not address solvency, but threatens to put the burden of caring for parents on children - and on communities.

Proposing to peg energy bills (utility) to "market rates" rather than pegged to costs of production + smaller profit - just on the heals of more revelations of how easily Enron got Utilities to play the market manipulation games in the northwest to grossly inflate what people pay for their heating/cooling and to keep the lights on.

Proposing to send less back to states for poverty programs such as heating assistance, food stamps, medicaid, etc. Just enough to sink even the working poor into poverty - and again to spread the economic distress throughout families and communities.

These are just a few things - in the first month of the admin (heck the first weeks...) Just imagine the "turn back the clock to 1932 and undo the New Deal" policy pushes these folks in the WH and Congress are going to push in the next three years. And these things DO directly impact the economic security issues of many, many people, their families and their communities. If this happens - which safety do you think is going to be of greater concern? The safety of my survival on a day to day basis? Or the safety of a generalized - but very vague and distant, though horrible imagery - threat?

[CWebster]

24. But you know what will happen

Ultimately Democrats will be blamed for being weak--not on issues of security as the Republicans define it, but by not defending us from them.

The Democrats are scorned because they are weak when confronting the Republicans who threaten us.

[BurtWorm]

30. Oddly enough, according to this poll, the Repubs do better on "prosperity"

as well as security. They really have the wool pulled snugly over the country's eyes.

[Hard_Work]

36. This I don't understand...

"Osama on TV just before the election didn't help our cause."

I know it is widely held that this hurt us, but I don't understand how. I mean, shouldn't the issue here have been that he was STILL free? That dumbya hadn't caught him yet? And didn't think he was all that important?

This, I still don't get...

[CWebster]

21. It is really simple

As long as we have leaders out there, like Hillary, who increasingly adopt Republican stands, instead of standing for Democratic principles, it is an endorsement of Republicans and a rejection of Democrats.

Our own Democratic politicians, by supporting Bush as opposed to challenging Bush in a clear direct matter, are weakening the Democratic party.

[xchrom]

22. no way! how could that happen?!?!

:eyes:

[CWebster]

23. But here is the problem

The perception promoted by both parties that what makes the Democrats unpopular is being Democrats. All the calls for unity, and bi-partisanship and the accusations of Democrats as "obstructionist". All the condemnation from the DLC for those who oppose or criticize Bush cause some to accuse those who defend Democrats and their message as "bashers".

[Norquist Nemesis]

33. "Bashers" and "Fringe"

What this poll really demonstrates is the effectiveness of Republican's marketing campaign brainwashing citizens through the media.

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. I'm one of those

who am wondering where the hell my party went. Howard Dean is just the medicine we need. No more repuke light. As we can see, THAT got us to where we are today AND stolen elections didn't help either. :(

[ElsewheresDaughter]

26. i do believe it has dropped much more than they stated among democrats

because of the gonzales vote for 1

[YNGW]

27. Might continue

And I'm not convinced moving more to the left will help the party. I'm confident that for every voter we gain by moving further left we lose a minimum of one because we did move further left.

[CWebster]

28. Yes, moving to the Right works

When the strategy is to demonize everything which is NOT part of the neo-con playbook (including reality) as some liberal agenda.

How much suffering will it take for people to come to their senses?

[BurtWorm]

31. So we should just stand still?

That way we won't risk anything! :think:

[YNGW]

35. Not what I said.

It's my opinion that moving more left in such a way that we appeal to the "Michael Moore" wing of the party (as is the common phase I hear it called from time to time) will lose more than it will gain. I just don't believe the country is as liberal (in that respect) as many here believe that it is, that's all. On the other hand, I don't believe the country is as conservative as the R's currently are either, so there is room for movement. But, it sure seems to me that currently extreme liberalism scares more people than does extreme conservatism. Now we could get into the why's and what's about whether or not people should or should not believe this or that, but that's not the point. Most people here seem to believe that D's are viewing the party in a lesser light because they aren't liberal enough or they aren't standing up to the R's enough and the party needs to go further left. I just don't believe that's the case. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. Time will tell.

[BurtWorm]

38. The Dems are only too willing to risk losing their base

to go after an allegedly more conservative swing demographic. What we're seeing in the DNC chair race is the base refusing to accept that strategy, which really hasn't shown signs of being at all successful since about 1992, and which has actually shown more evidence of being electorally disastrous for the party since then.

Only once since then did the Dems stump the prognosticators, and that was 1998 when the public displayed a surprisingly European sensibility and punished the Repubs for being such prickish prudes around la scandale Lewinsky.

[NVMojo]

32. well, I went to a Washoe County Dem meeting this past week

and came away sorely disappointed. The plastique leadership was frightening and they were humping the proverbial leg of the NV SOS, a repug. Scared the crap out of me.

I guess I am looking for some opposition leadership and it is not there.

[Ashamed_American]

40. This is just the beginning.

www.BlackEyedSundays.com

[welshTerrier2]

41. Dem Loyalists: Time to WAKE UP

perhaps some will see this as yet more "dem bashing" ... but whatever label you use, this is NOT good news for the status quo in the Democratic Party ... things need to change in a major way ...

if you are one of those people who just love to hop on every thread that criticizes the Democratic Party, if you're one of those "don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out", if you're one of those "why don't you just leave and go Green already", or if you're one of those "DU is for real Democrats people", this is a WAKE UP CALL FOR YOU ...

you need to stop defending the status quo in the Party ... you need to understand that there are millions of us who worked hard to get Democrats elected but we are fed up with how the Party is being run ... we are not anti-Democrat; we are calling for major changes and we have very real, very sincere objections to how the Party is being run ...

many of us feel that the DLC-Democrats have been in charge for a very long time and have not done well ... we want to throw the bumbs out and get some new people to run the show ... we are critical when elected Democrats vote to confirm the SOSSOS (i.e. the sack of shit Secretary of State) ... we are critical when there are not enough Democratic votes to sustain a filibuster on a man who authorized the use of torture ... we are critical when Democrats don't call for an end to the insanity in Iraq within a "not longer than" timeframe ... and we are critical about how Kerry's campaign was run ...

WE ARE NOT ANTI-DEMOCRATS; We believe many of our views have been ignored and we think major changes are needed in both policies, tactics and internal Party processes ... the article referenced in the OP highlights an erosion of the base ... call us names if you must but don't make the mistake of ignoring the message or the implications of this WAKE UP CALL ...

[BurtWorm]

42. Well said.

:toast:

[Hidden Stillness]

43. Get Amongst the People, and Out of the Corporate Social Club

I've been reading through some of the reports from this group, at http://www.democracycorps.com/ , and I think if you print up the "Toward a Democratic Purpose" report from the thread here, (9 pages), then go to the other website, click on "Strategic Analyses and National Surveys" and then print up the whole 23-page questionnaire for the study, you can get a sense of what might be going on.

Part of the problem, though, is this group. They routinely during this report use words like "their brand" (p.2), "competitive" (1st sentence), "own" as in "how can Democrats not own the value, opportunity," (p. 6). If you do not recognize the sound of a group that has lost its connection to the real people in the real country by being overtaken by corporate ad-campaign consultants, then you will never solve the problem, because, this is it.

How many times do these DLC types, who do nothing to serve people, who haven't even bothered to raise the minimum wage since 1997, who made one half-assed attempt at health care reform, then quit, expect us to vote for them because they tell us a political party is a "brand" that somebody else built up, that they now trade on? Apparently, that time is now over. The most interesting thing about the study was that it showed that it is us, not the general population, that is now tired of this.

After the election, the statistics showed that people were most concerned about terrorism/the war(s), and so of course the media told us that nobody thinks we have any morals but that Republican oil executives do. They are not trying to help us, of course. The study shows that, as always, most people agree with us and share our opinions; they do not support what Repubs want to do: how much more evidence do you need after the explosion caused by their latest threat to Social Security? Republicans are greedy assholes as always. Further, much of the opinion against us is based on lies--that we are "for gay marriage" specifically, not just gay rights, although I have never heard anyone say that, ever; that John Kerry is a "flip-flopper" and is "all over" on issues, although I have never heard anyone make such a claim, all these years, before this election. This goes along with some of their other exposed dirty tricks--the pamphlets given out at churches that we would "Ban the Bible," "force gay marriage," all the rest of their depressing litany; plus of course the rest of their vote fraud. How much of this opinion against us is based on easily provable lie, repeated?

This brings us to the main point, and that is that Democrats are being hammered by Repubs and their media, and we are answering nothing. The most criminal group of Republican exploiters since the Gilded Age, and we criticize nothing. They are so used to taking shots at us, owning all the media since the '80s, and we are so used to cowering and knowing we will not get a fair hearing, that we have no reputation left anymore as the fighters for the people, the voice of common sense, or anything else we used to be. It is not a "brand," it is a political party, and you either are it, or you are not. I think the opinion is not against us as a group or a philosophy, as the pimp's media tries to tell us, but against the group that will not lead or organize, but only posture for the media.

Things that are easily answered as an exposure of a Republican lie--all the "Social Security crisis" bullshit, tax cuts for rich people destroying the very foundations of our economy for generations--things that we should be making Republicans pay a heavy price for even attempting, are instead over-complicated and treated as if they are part of a murky world of ad-agency posturing, just the right phrase is needed or we will never win anything, persuasion-psychology studies, visuals and graphics--just answer the damned lie! Instead of just facing them and speaking the truth, like Boxer, Kennedy, Tom Harkin, etc., these others worry they will be called "whiny," "loud," etc., then paralyze themselves to act. Don't act like those things, and they won't be there! They have become so over-consulted that they are now often as distant from the people as the corporate Republican enemy, and that was an amazing stunt. If anybody acted like the true fighters of the past--Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt, Robert Kennedy, anybody who hates injustice against all of our people--tough and courageous, and intelligent and dignified, we would blow right past the phonies and buttfucks of their media, straight to a cheering American people, once again.

[Name removed]

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