Seriously, if Clinton was never elected prez, would Bush be in the WH now?

[LynneSin]

Poll question: Seriously, if Clinton was never elected prez, would Bush be in the WH now?

I honestly and truly believe that the only reason Bush ever entered politics was that the powers to be needed some sort of Puppet in the White House to undo what Clinton was doing to the country.

Other than a losing attempted at a house seat back in the 70s, Bush has never held any political offices until he ran for Texas Governor. In fact, Bush hadn't really done anything since he skipped out of the war, bankrupt every business he ever owned and traded away Sammy Sosa to boot.

Yet suddenly in 1994 we had not one, but 2 Bush's running for governor. 1994, you might recall, was the "Contract for America" election in which the repukes made a push to move the House & Senate to the right. Both George & Jeb ran for office but only George won. Jeb didn't make it until 1998. In fact, some political scholars think that it was Jeb who was first choice to run as president since he did not have the troubled background as is brothers Neil and George did.

I love Clinton and I loved the 8 years he was in office (heck I still adore the man today), but I truly believe if someone else had won in 1992, brothers George & Jeb would be trodding about doing what they would normally do before they 'decided' to enter politics.

What do you think?

[ecstatic]

1. The people behind the scenes used Clinton to turn the country

against Blacks and Democrats. They had 8 years to build up a very powerful media machine that ensured future losses to the Democrats.

[trotsky]

2. Other: If Clinton had kept it in his pants, * would not be in the WH.

Gore had to distance himself from Clinton, and in doing so, disassociated himself also from the peace & prosperity we enjoyed during his term. Weakened him enough that * was able to steal it in 2000.

[scbluevoter]

6. Also. . .

If Gore had been President on 9/11 we may never win another election for the rest of our lifetimes. Strange times.

[trotsky]

7. Oh, I have no doubt Republicans would have crucified Gore for 9/11.

But it could be argued that had Gore been president on 9/11, it would have been a regular day. He would not have shelved the anti-terrorism report that he himself was responsible for, like Bush did, and put Cheney in charge of a brand new anti-terror taskforce that hadn't even met before 9/11.

[MisterLiberal]

21. Why`

oh why do we blame ourselves?

[trotsky]

26. It's not so much blaming ourselves...

as it is acknowledging the enemy we are facing. ANY indiscretion by our side, no matter how slight, is going to be exploited by the Repukes even while they carry on with their own affairs, incestuous business relationships, and election fraud.

If Clinton wanted to fool around, I am entirely of the opinion of that being between him and his wife. Doesn't affect me, or his ability to govern, in the slightest. BUT, he should have chosen someone more mature, more capable of keeping it secret. If he had, the 'pukes would have had NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH.

And in all likelihood, we'd be entering President Gore's second term now.

[rzemanfl]

23. You took the words right off my keyboard. And I agree 100%.

If Monica had kept her mouth shut (either before or after) the World would be a far different place today.

[KittyWampus]

30. BS> The Supreme Court & Election Fraud Put Bush In WH. Gore Won

GEt OVER IT.

Stop parroting GOP lies and blaming the Clenis.

[trotsky]

31. It's one of many factors.

Any one of them could have tipped the 2000 election past the point where the 'pukes were able to steal it.

I'm not blaming Clinton, I'm just saying that it WAS a factor, whether we like it or not, and whether it was fair or not.

Don't attack me for acknowledging reality.

[AndyTiedye]

3. 8 Years of Boosh I, Followed by 8 Years of President Dan Quayle

and whoever they would have annoited after that.

Same shit woulda happened earlier, and we wouldn't have gotten the
two decent justices we got on the USSC during Clinton's term.
Abortion would have been banned years ago, and the Pill would
be illegal by now.

[gumby]

4. The Bush Family Evil Empire has been in the works for generations.

Clinton, or no Clinton, the BFEE was and is on the march.

The rise of fascism in this country didn't happen only in the 8 years of the Clinton administration.

The attack on Clinton made it easier for the Bush's to steal the 2000 election, but it would have happened sooner or later.

(read this last night... eeekk http://www.insider-magazine.com/ChristianMafia.htm )

[hippiegranny]

5. Other

Clinton was an awesome president. BUT. The Monica escapade is why we got stuck with Bush. But for his idiocy on that one issue, Gore would be serving his second term.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. I have to agree with that

People were very happy under Clinton, but the fundies got their issues to run on and enough of a push to oust Gore.

[LynneSin]

9. The point people are missing is....

in 1992 there were no Bush's out there indicating they were running for any office.

Bush Sr. could have been re-elected and maybe we'd be stuck with a Prez Quayle, but would any of the Bush offspring have even bothered with running for office

[amazona]

11. yes they waited until their dad was finished to step up

What's weird about that? You don't supplant your own father while he's still a live candidate.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[LynneSin]

19. Yes but just because dad is prez doesn't mean they couldn't

have run for office before hand.

:shrug:

[gumby]

13. From memory

George H W Bush declared that his political dynasty was going to rival the Kennedy's and was quoted as saying something like, 'wait 'til you see *my* boys.'

Maybe someone knows where to get this quote?

[KittyWampus]

29. No, Election Fraud In Florida Is Why We Have Bush

[amazona]

10. who else would have defeated Bush I?

We would be even worse off if we had not had a few years to at least scratch a few pennies together. The 80s and early 90s were financial penury for most people on the ground, can you imagine nothing but "Allentown" (the Bruce Springsteen song) unbroken from 1980? Every piece of real estate in America would be owned by a corporation.

Life would have been an unbroken string of Bushes one after another. What an awful thought.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[ThorsHammer]

12. IMO, that would never happen (the string)

I don't think Americans would want any part of a family 'dynasty' type thing, especially with people as polarizing as the Bushes. At some point a good opposition candidate would have emerged and thumped them.

[elsiesummers]

16. I wish I thought you were right (no dynasty)

Unfortunately, I fear that Americans are the sort who actually do like political dynasties. Yes it's an idea that is antithetical to democracy (closer to a monarchy) but I really think that Americans like familiar brand names and have a tendency toward liking a known quantity - they love the one they're with - or simply have a status quo mentality.

I am extremely concerned about a Bush dynasty and further consolidaton of power. Jeb is waiting in the wings. My mother even suggested to me they'd run Laura against Hillary if Hillary were nominated (this seems far fetched, but the idea that GW ever became president seems far fetched). Then, down the road, you have George P. and also the Bush daughters (the daughters seem unlikely - but in time, who knows).

I find the potential reality of a Bush dynasty frightening.

I don't see why you think Americans will be against it - and that idea is even more frightening.

[ThorsHammer]

22. That is true

It might just be me, but I do think people are starting to approach a tipping point w/r/t Iraq. Many people, myself included, weren't as bitterly opposed at the time, as they managed to cloud it, Al-Qeada, WMDs, and Afghanistan. We also thought that we'd get a full coalition, and have a good post-war plan. After none of these happened, many people started to question if it was all worth it. IMO, if Kerry had drilled Bush on this, he would have won.

I do think people like famiilar 'brand names', but this may not be as much of an asset if Bush continues to polarize. Jeb may end up getting tarnished instead, if the troubles continue. Polarization may help with a candidate like Hillary, but not with someone like Clark. I do hope things get better in the ME and here, in which case all bets are off with Jeb. However, if things continue to go badly, they may have to go for a McCain or someone like him who is more electable.

[yellowcanine]

14. Why don't we talk about what would have happened if the South had won the

Civil War?.......about as useful, imo.

[dandrhesse]

15. You are right in one respect.

Clinton committed the unpardonable by giving minorities real access to the White House. I don't think the right wanted that. The other thing Clinton did that was inexcusable was he proved to America and to the world that it is possible to pay for social programs that work, make our streets safer, create jobs and defend our country all at the same time. He proved you could balance the budget and a whole host of other things that the right says are impossible without breaking the bank or imposing huge tax increases. He proved them wrong and he did it with a republican congress no less.

If that had been allowed to continue you never know who might win the popular vote.

Just my take on it, as for Bush I think that made a grave error in judgement with him. If there is one thing big business doesn't like, it's attention and bush blew that on every front imaginable. I think they were convinced he would be a puppet and I think he is more stubborn and egotistical than they have counted on, which is why I think they are going to cut him loose.

[BlueInRed]

17. People were "fat and happy" in 2000, willing to take a risk

Most people in 2000 were doing pretty well. Bush could never have snuck in the first time if people had really been concerned about kitchen table issues - their jobs, their money, etc.

2000 was an election on peripheral issues and if the public hadn't been so complacent and confident the good times would continue, Bush would have been subjected to a lot more scrutiny.

Then we all know how he used the 911 stuff to scare everyone to death and temporary insanity.

So, no, if Clinton hadn't come in and cleaned up the mess made by Reagan and Bush I, * wouldn't have gotten such an easy ride in 2000 and we wouldn't be in this mess. And, I don't blame Clinton for creating the good times that allowed this to happen, NOR for Monica.

[John_H]

18. These questions are absolutely futile and

have no relevence to reality.

Actually if Nixon had gotten a few thousand more votes in IL, Kennedy would not have won, which mean there would have been no waterate for outsider Carter to run on but instead maybe a kennedy comeback in '68, which means that reagan may have run and won in '76 after 8 years of Kennedy, certainly picking a VP other than Poppy, which means no coattails for dubya, and probably no clinton either since there could have been a Dem running for a 2nd term in '92. So as you can see it's Nixon's fault chimp is in the whitehouse. Or is it Ike's fault for picking him as a running mate in '52? Or maybe Hitler's fault, because without Hitler there would be no Ike. And how would hitler have come to power if it weren't for the allies disasterous treatment of erman after WWI, which we all know was caused by the treaty between Russia and France signed in 1877....

See what I mean?

[rzemanfl]

24. Speculation like this keeps people's minds off of things like

what if Iran already has a nuke and Israel follows Cheney's lead and attacks them and they retaliate by nuking Tel Aviv?

We all wish things were different, and Bill and Monica certainly had an impact on the 2000 election. Seems strange that one 24 year-old fellatrix potentially caused so much havoc, but on election day in 2000 who possibly, in their wildest nightmare, could have predicted what the next four years would bring?

[ClarkUSA]

20. Bush Is In The White Because Karl Rove Stole 2 Elections, Period.

[rzemanfl]

25. I agree with you in part, but there a lot of variables. If it weren't for

the "butterfly ballot" Gore would have had enough votes to carry Florida, everything else notwithstanding. Rove would not have been able to steal the election had it not been for the closeness of the Florida vote in 2000.

[KitchenWitch]

27. It's the Clenis' fault that *is in WH?

:wtf:

[KittyWampus]

28. Lynnesin, Almost Every Aspect Of What's Going On Now Was Orchestrated

and Clinton just lit a bigger fire in the GOP belly cause he wasn't
"supposed" to win.

Clinton made a delay in their gameplan. And unfortunately, it just gave them more time to consolidate media etc.