These are the reasons why the Democratic Party needs to nominate Clark

[Bread and Circus]

NH
OH
WV
KY
TN
GA
FL
MO
AR
LA
MT
NV
AZ
CO

They are called the swing states. Many of them are Southern
and/or have a large Veteran/Military contigent.

I think Clark has the best chance of winning them.

Check out Edwards interactive electoral map for details.

[robsul82]

1. What will you do...

...when Bush calmly states, "Well, you have some great ideas there, but how can we trust you'll do what you say you'll do? After all, you've never been elected so much as dogcatcher of Arkansas your entire life." What then?

Later.

RJS

[wndycty]

4. Well considering Bush was not elected president. . .

. . .I don;t think it really matters. What will you do when they play a tape of Dean screaming and ask "do you trust the country in the hands of this man?"

[robsul82]

9. I think Dean will say...

"I believe this tape and others like it merely show my passion, the drive I have to take this country back from an administration that has been horrible for the future of the United States."

And that didn't answer the question anyway. Clark cannot go on stage and say, "Hahahaha, Gore beat you!" and expect people to listen. The fact remains, Clark has never been elected so much as dogcatcher in his entire life, and that is a fatal hole.

Later.

RJS

[roguevalley]

22. This is not a liability for millions of people these days. In fact,

for many, its a plus. And its disingenious to assume
that he doesn't have leadership ability and experience
because he was promoted rather than elected to his many
and various positions in a great beauracracy. (SPELLING!
BWAHAHAHA! I HATE THAT WORD!)

Not having elected baggage will be a plus to more
people than you think. Trust me. I live in Alaska.

[robsul82]

25. Alaska's a Republican state. I don't EXACTLY think it's representative...

Let's take seniors. My grandmother saw Clark on CNN one day and said, "He looks like a VERY good man, like that Mr. Dean fellow of yours." I said, "But grandma, he's never been elected anything before." She said, "Oh." And when my grandmother says "Oh," it means it's done. Who never forgets to vote? Seniors.

I can see your point, though, and seniors aren't a massive voting block by any means, but I REALLY think people - MOST people - think to be president, you have to have SOME elected experience before. Period.

Later.

RJS

[Bundbuster]

26. My 91 year old Republican mother says you're wrong

A woman who has voted straight-line Republican her entire life, has told me that she will vote for Wes Clark if he wins the nomination.

[robsul82]

28. Yay for being 91!

I'm kidding, of course, but seriously. I'd really like to see a study of this done, polling seniors on whether Wes Clark's military experience outweighs never been elected to anything previously. I think you won't like the results, if you go by my grandma's bingo group. lol

Later.

RJS

[Bundbuster]

33. "I'm kidding"? Then why did you put your insult of my 91 year old mother

in your message title? You Dean "supporters" never seem to learn how many people you offend and totally put off from even considering voting for your candidate.

I DO NOT accept your "I'm kidding" bullshit - if you weren't trying to discount the values & views of senior Americans, who have alot more experience and wisdom than arrogant hotheads like you, then you would not have made your statement, including "she might die before the election." I've always maintained that my main objection to Mr. Dean as candidate is his abrasive personality. Even more abrasive people like you do more to harm Dr. Dean than any of his actions or statemnets.

[robsul82]

35. Oh geez.

:nopity:

Later.

RJS

[Joe the Revelator]

36. Oh geeze?

the orginal subject of your post was not funny and nothing more then a sick below the belt slap.

Good job editing the title though, :eyes:

[Bundbuster]

38. "Oh geez"? Why did you quickly change your insult meassage title in

message #28 from "She's probably senile, and may die before the election" to "Yay for being 91"?

You have proven exactly what I refer to as yet another crass, bullying, backpeddling candidate cannibal who drives away potential support for your Dr. Dean.

[Jerseycoa]

40. That is horrid!

I thought you were being sensitive, Bundbuster, but I hadn't seen the original phrasing. :mad:

"She's probably senile, and may die before the election"

Some people behave as if they were raised in barns. :freak:

[Bundbuster]

41. Talk to me about your quickly-changed title in message #28, robsul82

Do you routinely go around calling people's elderly parents SENILE"?

Do you routinely suggest that DUers' elderly parents are going to DIE soon?

Do you actually think that you're helping your candidate Dean's cause by being a boorish lout?

Talk to me, robsul182.

[Leilani]

44. What Ignorance

Elderly people show up to vote. They are part of the Greatest Generation. They went thru WWII & they appreciate the military.

[xray s]

6. I would say

Mr Bush, you are the prime example of a politician that says one thing and does the exact opposite. So what the hell is your point?

[robsul82]

13. And he would say...

"That's not true, General, and the question stands - you've never been elected ANYTHING before, so how do you think you're qualified to make domestic policy for the biggest and grandest and bestest nation on Earth?"

Later.

RJS

[xray s]

31. Response

You duplicity is a fact and very well documented, Mr Bush, in both foreign and domestic policy. "Clear Skies" programs that increase pollution, a "No Nation Building" foreign policy translated into unilateral military action based on false evidence, a "No Child Left Behind" education plan that offers regulations but no hope.

Claiming to be "a uniter, not a divider" and then following a political strategy of divide and conquer, both domestically and abroad.

The President of the United States is a leader. He sets the agenda. Some, like you Mr Bush, lead us astray. I want to lead us back to the path of greatness. The key is vision, and action. I have negotiated peace in a very volatile area of the world. I have experienced war first hand, and do not take going to war lightly, as you do. Aircraft carriers are not political photo op props, and nuclear subs are not toys to reward political donors. I have dealt first hand with the financial hardships that face military families. Health care. Education. Housing. They are the same issues facing many other Americans as well.

I know I won't be able to do it all alone. I will have a cabinet and staff to help me implement my vision, the vision I have laid out in this campaign. Your cabinet and staff are ideological extremists. Mine will be charged with doing the work of the people.

If I do not deliver on my plan, I will be voted out of office. As you, Mr Bush, will soon find out.

[robsul82]

32. That's great, but...

1. Doesn't answer the question of "Why is a man with no elected experience qualified to run America?"
2. The moderator would cut him off somewhere around "political strategy of divide and conquer."

Later.

RJS

[xray s]

37. Eisenhower was never elected before his run for President.

He was elected and reelected. So I guess it's possible. What do you know?!?

Appeciate the warning about the media covering for Bush though!

The scum bag media is against us all, my friend. :hi:

[Democrats unite]

7. Lets see Supreme Allied Commander (now thares a title)

Or a Govenor from one of the Smallest States in The U.S.

Theres a no brainer!

[robsul82]

11. That's cute, but...

...people see "Governor" as more of a qualification as "Supreme Allied Commander of NATO." Why? Because being a governor requires domestic policy and actually knowing how the act of governing works.

Later.

RJS

[West Coast Democrat]

8. He has plenty of experience as a leader

whether or not he was ever involved in politics before.

[robsul82]

12. None of it was in the public eye...

...and I really don't think people will see "Supreme Allied Commander of NATO" as more of a qualification for President of the United States than "governor of Vermont," coming from a Dean perspective. I honestly don't.

Later.

RJS

[West Coast Democrat]

16. I'm not comparing Clark to Dean, but to Bush*

The thread is about Clark.

[Bundbuster]

29. Didn't seem to bother American voters

who chose General Dwight D. Eisenhower for 8 years.

His previous career experience - "None of it was in the public eye."

[robsul82]

34. Well, that was the fifties, and who was Eisenhower running against?

Certainly not Bush.

Later.

RJS

[Bread and Circus]

14. I would say "Why are you stealing Molly Ivin's lines" and...

why did you go AWOL you piece of crap deserter?

[robsul82]

15. But Clark wouldn't say that.

He wouldn't say "You went AWOL" or "You're a deserter" or "Gore won Florida, you son of a bitch!", because although it may be true, it'd turn off a massive amount of voters. Stick to what Clark might ACTUALLY say.

Later.

RJS

[Bread and Circus]

20. You asked me "what will you do" you didn't ask me what Clark would do...

So what do you really want to know?

[robsul82]

21. You meaning Clark. Sorry.

Whoopsie.

Later.

RJS

[Bread and Circus]

24. Oh, I don't know exactly what he might say...but I am a founder

of a draft clark website of a major state. From time
to time I get hate mail from Freepers saying this and
that about Clark. I just send them a quick email back
"informing" them of Bush's AWOL status -- it shuts them
up quite quick.

Try it the next time a Freeper gives you crap, it's fun.

[bearfartinthewoods]

23. what will we do when al quaeda decides to put him to the test

remember the bit about there will be no more terrorists on my watch or whatever?

bush says... 'bring 'em on".
clark says.... "We are not going to have one of these incidents."

show me the difference?

[OKNancy]

43. He'll say

"Because, Mr. Bush, I have had an unequaled record throughtout my career. Even your own Secretary of State complimented my ability and integrity." Then he could go on to list all his accomplishments if he really wanted to pile on.

( And in my dreams he could say, " While you were drinking and coking it up and having a party on your rich old man, I was...etc")

[jmaier]

2. I completely agree

In fact, the electoral issue vis a vis * was my first attraction to Wes Clark. Fortunately, I also found a very engaging candidate with great positions and a human touch. It was a nice surprise.

[Joe the Revelator]

3. I think...

that Clark may be able to put Virginia in play. With the strong military roots down here, he might have the best chance in the last 20 years to turn red virginia blue

[poskonig]

5. While Kerry is not southern

he doesn't have his fundraising handicapped until the end of July. Other candidates do. I wonder how we can win these states as Bush pours his quarter of a billion dollars into our home turf-- i.e. Michigan, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, et cetera.

We need to be competitive everywhere, and that affected my support.

[xray s]

10. Michigan has one big Clark positive

A very large Muslim population that appreciates Clark stopped the genocide of 1.5 million Kosavars.

[Bread and Circus]

17. But what matters more, money or a bankable candidate?

Kerry beating Dean in New Hampshire is proof that being
a bankable candidate is more important than money, endorsements,
and organization all put together.

[Bread and Circus]

30. And Edwards if further proof of that.

Dean had both beat in organization, money spent,
and big (i.e. Tom Harkin) endorsements. Dean lost.
The chink in the armor was uncovered.

While I think Kerry and Edwards are great candidates, I just
think Clark is that much better and that much more bankable.

[poskonig]

48. How did Clark, Lieberman, et cetera do in Iowa?

Oh, they couldn't afford it.

[overground1]

18. you don't present a case, to back up your opinion

Why would Clark be stronger with swing voters than any of the others?
Clark has taken the most liberal positions out of all of them. He said life begins with "the mother's choice", right up to birth. That is not a swing-voter friendly position.

[Bread and Circus]

27. 1st off Clark is from Arkansas, need I say more?

If you look at the many of the states, it is kind of obvious.

Dean and Kerry are from New England (which is an area of the country
I happen to love). Edwards has no military background. Clark
is the only one that has the Southern and military appeal. He comes
from humble roots. He rose to the top on his own merit. He
can toss back a beer w/ fellow vets and talk about the theory
of Relativity. He can appeal to across party lines. He's not
had a political career bought and paid for by special interests.
He truly is non-partisan, and has a record of putting the US of A
above all else (even his family at times). He is the clearest
contrast to the Silver spoon, C- student, drunk driving, AWOL,
coke addled, can't speak a sentence when not cued, chickenhawk
coward of a President we have.

You want a candidate that will make your job easier come 11/2004,
not harder. Clark is that candidate.

[JVS]

19. 2 more IWR, Patriot Act.

I am reluctant to say this, but Clark seems to be looking better and better compared to candidates who have collaborated extensively with Bush.

[IndianaGreen]

39. A more important reason is that a pro-IWR candidate will split the party

The real split will come after the election, when despite our voting for the nominee while holding our noses, he brings another DLC defeat to fruition. The recriminations and finger-pointing will be long lasting and bitter!

Ironically, the only pro-IWR candidate that may actually win in November is Edwards. The reason: Edwards is not a Washington insider, and he is not a gun-grabbing Massachusetts Skull & Bones elitist.

[jpgpenn]

42. Thanks for the post

:toast:

[adamrsilva]

45. Clark seems like the best candidate at first

but then I imagine how Karl Rove will simply say:

"Clark supported the war, and now he doesn't. He was a Republican, and know he's a Democrat. This smacks of pure career oppurtunism, which Clark has a clear record of."

and so on...

I also fear (and this is not an attack on Clark) there's skeletons in the closet Clark has that we don't know about.

[Auntie Bush]

46. and this is not an attack on Clark)

Then what is it? Isn't it against the rules to just make accusations
out of thin air...which is what you did.

[IndianaGreen]

47. The only skeleton around here is Kerry's Skull & Bones

From CBS 60 Minutes:

Bones is not restricted to the Republican Party. Yet another Bonesman has his eye on the Oval Office: Senator John Kerry, Democrat, Skull & Bones 1966.

“It is fascinating isn't it? I mean, again, all the people say, ‘Oh, these societies don't matter. The Eastern Establishment is in decline.’ And you could not find two more quintessential Eastern establishment, privileged guys,” says Rosenbaum. “I remember when I was a nerdy scholarship student in the reserve book room at, at the Yale Library, and John Kerry, who at that point styled himself ‘John F. Kerry’ would walk in.”

“There was always a little buzz,” adds Rosenbaum. “Because even then he was seen to be destined for higher things. He was head of the Yale Political Union, and a tap for Skull and Bones was seen as the natural sequel to that.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/02/60minutes/main576332.shtml

[arewethereyet]

49. I would agree with that except for one thing

Clark has at least as many gaffes and worse ones to boot as Dr Dean and the other shoe has yet to drop regarding Shelton's comments.

The only thing he could do worse is to yell.

Sorry but way too much baggage for anything else to compensate for.

[Bread and Circus]

50. ?

I mean, seriously, ?

???

???

[arewethereyet]

51. you are unaware of any such issues ?

my favorite early one is the calls he got from the White House that wound up being from Montreal and on a different subject.

After that it didn't matter to me because he prooved himself a liar and a bad one at that.

I'm sure that all of them will be recapped for you ad nausium should he make it past NH.