Blame Moore (or Kerry or anybody but the other side)

[Generator]

So there is this lovely quote in the Vanity Fair article of March 2005: Re: F/911

"The movie struck me as being out-and-out propaganda," says Steve Grossman, a former Democratic National Commitee chariman, who also chaired Howard Dean's failed campaign for the presidential nomination.

"And then there was the law of unintended consequences, meaning says Grossman, the unprecendented turnout may have had something to do with the fact the other side would not allow their president to be trashed by Michael Moore."

Why do we ALWAYS have apologists for the other side on our team?

Moore's response:

"Grossman said that? Typical liberal response."

My response:Liberals grow some balls. Propaganda is only used when refering to someone on your side? That's why we lost the election because of assholes like Grossman who want to tiptoe around fascist leaders and a corrupt media.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Wimps galore.

[lancdem]

2. That is a dumb statement by Grossman

Talk about a pantywaist. And he worked for Dean. Sounds like his version of Bob Shrum.

[LittleClarkie]

3. I just saw a similar response in my progressive newspaper

A column commenting that the writer thought Moore used Republican tactics to get his point across, trying to scare them rather than just presenting the information and trusting that his audience had a mind of its own and didn't need to be told what to think.

I dunno, it might have helped and it might not have. I know that one of my friends who was vaguely for the war about a year ago is suddenly calling Bush "Hitler." He was a fan of Moore's, then disgruntled when Moore had his Oscar protest, and is now a fan again as he becomes more and more angry at the government. So I think in my experience it had an effect if folks believed what was in there.

I must say, as for blame, we all share in it. Easier to point a finger at Shrum, or Kerry, or Moore, or anyone else than to accept some blame to oneself. Each one gets some.

[iamjoy]

4. Grossman Is Right

Well, sort of.

I read his quote and thought, but then why didn't all the trashing of Kerry done by the Republicans, including the Swift Boat Liars lead to greater turnout by Kerry supporters?

Why, indeed? The Republicans are far better at spin and have the main stream media on their side. Moore's film was an obvious piece of propaganda designed to hinder the election of George W. Bush. Michael Moore is an obnoxious Hollywood Liberal who hates America. And it became the truth.

And how did we respond to the Swifties? It is easy to blame Kerry but the Dems should have united to hit back and hit hard. This is a smear campaign, a campaign of blatant lies for the purpose of smearing John Kerry's good name and influencing the election.

Although, I do know a Liberal who thinks Dennis Kucinich is the best and she doesn't like Michael Moore. She thinks he is obnoxious and doesn't like his bombastic style.

[DaveinMD]

5. don't waste your energy on this stuff

its not worth the time.

[jab105]

6. What does this mean?

unprecendented turnout may have had something to do with the fact the other side would not allow their president to be trashed by Michael Moore."


He's saying that conservatives bought up all the tickets to F9/11...that's insane!! The responses during the movie when I went...ummm, they weren't exactly pro-Bush...

Most conservatives that I heard of bought a ticket to another movie and snuck in...

[Generator]

9. No he meant the fundies were so MAD at Moore

that it inspired them to vote in droves for the God-King, Bush.

Don't be mean to my Prez! I don't care if you take away my social security and send all my children to die in war. HE's the best.

Idiot wind.

[d_b]

7. Michael Moore costed Kerry the election?

:crazy:

[AlCzervik]

8. i'm so tired of hearing that

who knows how many votes Moore may have gotten him? Maybe Kerry would have lost by a few more votes if not for that movie. I don't know and neither does anybody else.

[pamela]

10. Bullshit.

The pukes want us to shun Hollywood and our musicians because they know that is one facet of American culture that they can never own. We are fools if we lay blame, or turn our backs, on Michael Moore or any of the other great directors, actors and musicians that support us and speak out against Bushco.

[jdots]

11. correct o mundo

Anyone that puts down the film has niether seen it or went to it with thier head up thier ass like they go thru life.Rush calls Springsteen a has been,O'retched calls us un American. I call them turd maggots that can't go anywhere without a sercurity force unless it's to freeper pic nic or dog fight. Michael Moore is a patriot and the Murdock media is a traitor to all human life.

[Cha]

12. I don't know how

"liberal" a response it is? To me it's more like a repuke lite response.

On Edit~ And millions of people love Michael Moore ..he got the People's Choice award for F/911!

So stick that in your ass..gross man!

[ClassWarrior]

13. Okay, so where are OUR balls?? What's the contact info for...

...this Grossman fuck?? I'm willing to call the guy and chew his ass off. How about the rest of you who agree with Generator's statement that Progressives (he used the L-word) need to "grow some balls??"

Will YOU take two minutes to make a call or write a letter to this Grossman asshole?

NGU.

[MrSlayer]

14. So none of that is true? How absurd.

The guys who are supposed to be on our side simply have to be getting something out of this. Why would you defend Chimp and his proven lies and shady buisness dealings?

[JohnOneillsMemory]

15. BBV! Kerry Won. Propaganda Matrix. This guy is wrong in every way.

(I still have this copied to paste from another thread. This guy's ignorance is part of the problem. Don't fall for it. READ ALL THIS>>)

1) Kerry won. Electronic voting machines and voter suppression stole the election...again. Dems won the last four presidential elections.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
(Diebold, Electronic Voting, And the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy)

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/KEE501A.html
(The Strange Death of American Democracy)
Someone here at DU actually found the evidence of hacking in the Cuyahoga County vote totals. It's there for all the world to see but to no avail.

2) Basic psychology has been used as a weapon against the masses for almost 100 years to hide the truth from us from the day we are born.

http://www.thedoctorwithin.com/index_fr.html?content=articles/doors_of_perception.html
(Why Americans Will Believe Almost Anything)

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/rise_of_american_fascism.htm
(The Rise of American Fascism)

http://www.mackwhite.com/tv.html
(The TV Hive Mind)

http://www.tscm.com/CIA_PsyOps_Handbook.html
(1979 Army Manual 33-1 Psychological Operations in Guerrilla Warfare)
This weapon has actually been used on the American people as though they were the enemy of the White House. They are.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0712-01.htm
(Trading on Fear)
Wars and cars have been sold to us with this basic tool.

3) Public schooling was designed by robber barons in the early 1900s with the intention of turning out obedient worker drones and cannon fodder who are afraid of each other and welcome a police-state.
It works.

http://4brevard.com/choice/Public_Education.htm
(The Shocking Origins of Public Schools by John Gatto)

http://www.sntp.net/education/education.htm
(How Psychiatry & Modern Psychology Subvert
Education, and Harm Children and Society)


4) The mainstream media has been completely controlled to create a fascist mentality that blindly follows the fuhrer for over 60 years now. That's three generations of brainwashing to get to this point where they STILL have to steal the election.

Operation Mockingbird has had the CIA massaging and working in the ENTIRE MSM for over 50 years now! This is an old old story which is being minimized into the 'Few Bad Apples' technique of damage control due to the internet.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MOCK/mockingbird.html
(Operation Mockingbird: The Subversion of the Free Press by the CIA)

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-overclass.html
(The Origins of the Overclass)

>snip<

MOCKINGBIRD was extraordinarily successful. In no time, the agency had recruited at least 25 media organizations to disseminate CIA propaganda. At least 400 journalists would eventually join the CIA payroll, according to the CIA’s testimony before a stunned Church Committee in 1975. (The committee felt the true number was considerably higher.) The names of those recruited reads like a Who's Who of journalism:

* Philip and Katharine Graham (Publishers, Washington Post)
* William Paley (President, CBS)
* Henry Luce (Publisher, Time and Life magazine)
* Arthur Hays Sulzberger (Publisher, N.Y. Times)
* Jerry O'Leary (Washington Star)
* Hal Hendrix (Pulitzer Prize winner, Miami News)
* Barry Bingham Sr., (Louisville Courier-Journal)
* James Copley (Copley News Services)
* Joseph Harrison (Editor, Christian Science Monitor)
* C.D. Jackson (Fortune)
* Walter Pincus (Reporter, Washington Post)
* ABC
* NBC
* Associated Press
* United Press International
* Reuters
* Hearst Newspapers
* Scripps-Howard
* Newsweek
* magazine Mutual Broadcasting System
* Miami Herald
* Old Saturday Evening Post
* New York Herald-Tribune

>snip<

That's why there was a blackout on election fraud again. TOTAL CONTROL.

Has anyone talked about Operation Vigilant Warrior? The NORAD exercises 'simulating' multiple hijacked planes crashed into buildings the morning of 9/11? No. TOTAL CONTROL.

http://www.oilempire.us/wargames.html
(9/11 Wargames Before and During the Attacks)

The NYT just edited the transcript of Rice's damning tsunami remarks at her confirmation hearing out of the online transcript. Why? Someone at the NYT is helping out the neocons. TOTAL CONTROL.

Just before the Em-poor-er's Inaugu-urination recruiting speech TIME magazine ran a cover story about young men who still live at home with the shaming headline 'Why Won't They Grow Up?' This was intended to push them into the military. TOTAL CONTROL.

Does anyone think this is a coincidence? These MSM organs are STILL all part of the Mighty Wurlitzer of organized propaganda that shape the attitudes of Americans so they will drive around and buy crap or pick up a gun and kill on command. Americans have no idea what is going on and most of what they think they know is wrong.

This gives them the innocence of ignorance. Sad but true.

[zulchzulu]

16. So a movie that is one of the Top Five EVER is to blame?

http://www.opednews.com/kall_062604_fahrenheit_top.htm

Grossman has been drinkin' some of that Repug Kool-Aid. F 9/11 was not enough. We need more movies like it, not less.

Also, I've never heard any Repuglified talk show blaboid EVER give any reasonable debunking of what was in the movie. None!

[despairing optimist]

17. Michael Moore helped prevent a * landslide

He worked very hard to produce a documentary that even his critics grudgingly admitted was his best work to date. He gave up what likely would have been a second Oscar for best documentary so that he could distribute the DVD version before the election and persuade as many voters as possible. He toured the country nonstop for weeks, entertaining huge crowds and coming down with pneumonia because he was pushing himself so hard. What he did, and continues to do, speaks for itself.

What has Grossman done for the cause lately? Consider the source of the criticism, and move on.