Foreign Born Presidents?

[simcha_6]

Nowadays, Republicans are crazy over the notion of amending the Constitution so Arnold can run for president in 2008 or 2016 or something. While I grudgingly admit he's better than many Republicans (policy-wise I prefer him to Bush, and he's apparently not TOO partisan) I really don't want him as our president. However, in principle, I'm for amending the constitution so certain foreign born American citizens can be president. I'm a college student, and from fifth grade on, have met two or three people who I'd like to see in office, one born in Peru and raised in Indonesia, the other born and raised in El Salvador. Both have lived in the states for years, one I even assumed was born in the states, both seem at least as intelligent as *. So how do I work out my progressive principles (foreign born citizens shouldn't be banned from the presidency because it seems xenophobic) with my practical concerns (heaven no don't let that man be our president)?

[The Backlash Cometh]

1. I guess Republicans are planning to outsource our democracy.

[Historic NY]

16. Can't you just hear the rumbling sound........

of all our founding fathers rolling over in their graves.

[dryan]

2. Will not support this....

[FreedomAngel82]

3. Not in my life time

or any others. I will not support this because it could be dangerous. It's not in the founding fathers plans either so why slap them in the face? No way for Arnold.

[Xipe Totec]

7. I don't support it either but technically...

...the Founding Fathers were all foreigners. They were born before the United States existed, therefore they were born outside the United States. There is a clause in the constitution to handle their special case.

Having said that, I see no reason to change the constitution to allow Ahnold to run for President. I'd rather eliminate the two term limit (which was not part of the original constitution) and let Bill Clinton run again.

:evilgrin:

[dryan]

19. Actually....

this was made a part of the Constitution to keep Alexander Hamilton from being President.

[liberalpragmatist]

34. Nope - Hamilton was specificaly allowed

The constitution said natural-born citizen or a citizen at the time of writing which would have applied to Hamilton.

[ZombieNixon]

39. It was written to prevent all that revolution from coming to naught.

Imagine having fought King George for years just to have him get on the ballot and win. How embarrasing would that have been?

[mordarlar]

32. can you imagine another bushco. election?

Edited to add: i heard a rumor a few mos ago that this was in the plans but did not add it as i could not confirm it. And left this thread to see another thread on the very subject.

[Sympleesmshn]

9. What about me?

My father was military(US) and he was stationed in Europe when I was born. My parents decided to have me off base because the care was better. This means I can never run for president. My father was born in Bermuda in 1948, so he can never run either. He was born there because his father was Navy(US).

I can't run for president because my family has defended our country. I think it is not fair, but I think it should only be open to Americans who are born to two Americans no matter where they may be at the time.

[dryan]

20. I am not sure that you are not....

I believe that children born to American servicemen when they are stationed abroad are American citizens. I would check into this if I were you.

[Sympleesmshn]

29. I will...

I am a citizen, but there is a technicality because I was born in a German hospital, not a US Army one.

[dryan]

31. I think you can .....

declare yourself an American citizen. I would check with an immigration attorney.

[Sympleesmshn]

33. I am a US citizen....

I carry a US passport. Next year, my 18th birthday, I have to give up my right to German citizenship. It is just our government dose not look the same at Americans, who are Americans at birth, who are born overseas. I father was given trouble getting into the Army and a friend, who was born in Ireland to American Navy parents, had the same problem in applying for Navy ROTC. It just seem that Americans born overseas, even if they are 5 or 6 generation American, are given a hard time. I am just saying I do not think I can run for president, because I was born in Germany and like there for 3 years. It is the same reason why Hamilton could not run for president, he was born in Bermuda.

[Silverhair]

25. Yes, you can. You count as native born. NT

[dryan]

10. This has nothing to do with "the Arnold" factor....

the President has the authority to send troops into battle. He/she cannot equivocate. What about this scenario? I can't send troops into ..... because 'mom and dad' live there? If you think that this can't happen this is one of the reasons that this law was put into the Constitution. You know, the GOP always floats these ideas to change the qualifications for President or to extend term limits when they have someone in there that they like but have you noticed there hasn't been much talk about a third term for Bush 43 since it was pointed out that that means Clinton could run again--and frankly would win by a landslide! The GOP is also fooling themselves if they think 'Ahnold' could win anywhere else by California.

[simcha_6]

28. Should I not run for president?

You can make the case for anyone being biased. Should an Armenian born in Sacramento be allowed to run for president? Even if his/her parents are American born too, (s)he might have strong feelings for Armenia, support Nagorno-Karabakh's independence, and undermine the world order of territorial integrity, boycott Azerbaijani oil and force gas prices up 10%.

I'm Jewish and have a strong affinity with Israel. Should I not run for president?

My mom's got Irish roots. I hold Ireland in high esteem, and I might one day have an Irish cousin-in-law. Should I not run for president because of that?

My grandfather's Catholic. Should I not run for president because the Vatican might influence me?

I have friends in Spain, Azerbaijan, and Argentina. Should I not run for president because I might be influenced by my friendships?

We certainly need to consider these questions (for anyone, not just me). But I imagine the majority of people running for president would be honestly want to help the United States. They probably weigh their prejudices in order to decide whether they can function as president.

What if a kid's born in, say, Sarajevo but raised in the states from their first birthday on? They probably feel about as American as anyone else.

As for someone taking advantage of an amendment and sending a foreign operative to lead the U.S. First, I doubt this is much of a problem. Most of Israel's prime ministers were foreign born- Russians! And Russia was expansionist! They never bothered to send a good Communist Jew to Israel to get immediate citizenship and go for premiership. I doubt the threats that big.

Finally, note that, with the two party system and institutional safeguards, if Libya or some nation actually went to the trouble to send a family to Virginia, raised the kids to be presidential candidates, and through some stroke of luck got them into the White House, both parties, the courts, and congress would prevent them from doing anything against America.

I think if you come to the states before the age twelve and are raised as a citizen, you should probably be allowed to run, at least.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

4. It's not xenophobic at all.

There is one MAJOR reason why foreign born citizens cannot be President:

Let's say, for example, we have an Austrian born President, and then a conflict between Austria and Germany arises. How in the world would we ever be able to broker any kind of deal in a peace agreement? The perception of bias, no matter how much integrity our President has, there is no way in hell we could ever convince the Germans that we are not tipping the scales in favor of Austria?

Just a small example, but the perception of intrinsic bias based on nationality is a major reason why we could never have a foreign born president. It would make foreign affairs extremely difficult.

[eyesroll]

6. People use this reasoning when voting against Jews or Catholics, too..

That there will be a perception that they will be more loyal to Israel or the Vatican, respectively.

Should we never elect Jews or Catholics then, due to the perception of intrinsic bias making foreign affairs difficult?

[Goldmund]

15. Great point.

Also, what about a case in which a woman has a child here when she's on vacation? Then that child grows up and moves to the US... And can run for president.

The whole idea is absolutely ridiculous and it shocks me that any liberal could support it.

[Yupster]

36. What if we amended the Constitution, but

put a twenty year time period before it would go into effect so everyone would know it wouldn't benefit one particular person.

The Constitution fif that with the slae trade -- specifically ended it in 1818 I think the date was.

[forgethell]

26. there's a considerable difference

between voting one's own prejudices, and enshrining them in law, wouldn't you say?

People have an absolute right to vote for whomever they please, for any reason whatsoever, including bad ones. But should we say that someonecan't run for office because he's foreign-born?? Maybe. Throw Arnold out of the mixture and see what your answer is.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

30. Change "Arnold" with "Soros" and my answer is still no.

Sorry, but I think it's asking for trouble.

[forgethell]

42. Actually, I

tend to agree with you. But its not one of the issues that excites my passions at the current time.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

27. The Vatican hasn't exactly been the target of many wars these days.

Israel, on the other hand, has. Pretending that such a prejudice doesn't exist throughout the world or doesn't matter is flat-out denial. If we had a Jewish man or woman as President, every single move he or she made with regard to anything in the Middle East would be scrutinized beyond recognition. Funding could not be increased or decreased, military action could not be taken, and diplomacy could not be facilitated without extreme scrutiny if we had a Jew as President. The tight-rope a Jewish president would have to walk on right now would be mind boggling. Is it a fair bias? Absolutely not, but I don't control the minds of others, and I only have one vote for myself. And as much as I wouldn't vote for him based on politics, I don't doubt that Ahnold would always act in the best interests of our country. But that still doesn't mean it's the best idea to have him in charge of our country.

Denying the problem's existence is also ignoring examples from recent history. No, we don't have a Jew in charge now, but we DO have a President that just LOVES to spout uber-Christian rhetoric whenever he pleases. Do you think we made any friends when he referred to the war on terrorism as a "crusade"? Do you think it makes our diplomacy situations any easier when he continually shoves an extremist Christian agenda and refers to the spread of democracy in a religious context? Of course not, and there is most definitely a price to be paid for all of that. For every two Bible references he makes, he probably converts another Muslim to terrorism.

I have no doubt that Joe Lieberman, Paul Wellstone, Barbara Boxer or any other American Jew would ONLY ever act in our own best interests. Hell, even WITH the bias, I'd still vote for Wellstone or Boxer for President (and I'll hopefully get the chance with regards to Boxer). But you can't even begin to pretend that the problem is very real and most definitely exists. How you choose to deal with said problem is up for every person with a vote to decide. Personally, while it's not a deciding factor for me, religion is definitely a part of the pro/con equation I use to vote for President of United States. It is not a factor for me for any other elected office.

[TwentyFive]

11. Good point. This was NEVER an issue before MuscleHead became gov.

[dryan]

21. That's a good argument...

I never thought of that.

[XNASA]

5. What practical concerns are you talking about?

Let's say we're talking about a person born in Mexico, since many Americans are Hispanic, and many Americans are Christian.....A Mexican POTUS doesn't sound all that far fetched.

Could a person like this be trusted to put America first? Not just in issues of war, but in issues of trade, etc.?

Then again, the current POS POTUS doesn't seemed to be too concerned with putting Americans first. Rich, white, Christian Americans, yes.....but what about the rest of us?

[TwentyFive]

8. MuscleHead will become anti-choice and anti-gay.

If he runs for prez as a repug, I guarantee he will 'modify' his views on women & gay rights.

[AlCzervik]

12. Anything that opens the door to let Henry Kisinger run for pres

i'm against. So he wouldn't run but just the thought that he could if he wanted to is scary.

[Laceration5]

13. John Conyers is supporting this ammendment to the

Constitution also. He's all for it.

[jswordy]

14. I vote no. The law avoids the possibility...

...in any way of our country falling under foreign influence via the presidency through a foreign operative gaining the office.

Nuff said.

[Telly Savalas]

41. I'm a lot more worried about Texan operatives than foreign ones.

[candle_bright]

17. I'm against it

and I think the chances of this type of amendment ever being passed is slim to none.

[MajorFlaw]

18. We have approx. 300M American born citizens. That should be a large

enough pool to find one qualified candidate every 4 or 8 years. Nothing whatsoever against naturalized citizens, but is this really necessary.

[Silverhair]

22. I am against it.

The potential for conflicts of interest are just too great.

Aside from that - it won't happen anyway. Any 13 states can block a constitutional amendment.

[Dr Ron]

23. I'm not going to worry

If they ammend the Constitution so Arnold can run, that means we can run Jennifer Granholm!

[forgethell]

24. You have to make up your mind.

The rules apply to Demcorats as well as Republicans, so which do you want more??

[ElsewheresDaughter]

35. not a good idea

[Hippo_Tron]

37. 100% for the ammendment

I see no reason that an immigrant can't be loyal enough to the USA to be President. BTW, I'm not really in the business of judging somebody's loyalty to their country considering that conservative assholes always try to portray us as "un-American" all the time.

I think that the clause was written in there for one of two reasons.

1) If the people suddenly decided that they didn't like the new country, then there could be a legal coup d'etat by the British. Somebody from Britain could just come over and run for President and the new nation would almost no longer exist.

2) Somebody didn't want Alexander Hamilton to be President.


Oh yea, BTW, if we can't beat Gropinator, then the Democratic party is done for.

[B0S0X87]

38. I'm with you

Honey Fitzgerald, the first Irish mayor of Boston and JFK's grandfather, once called the difference between someone whose ancestors came over on the Mayflower and one who came to the country last year, "a matter of a few boat rides."

I see no reason why someone like Jennifer Granholm, the Canadian-born and very popular governor of Michigan, shouldn't be allowed to run for president.

[DistressedAmerican]

40. I'll Support It After Arnold Is Dead Not A Day Sooner!