Have you called your Senator today about Chertoff?

[genius]

Poll question: Have you called your Senator today about Chertoff?

Our Homeland Security nominee advocates "waterboarding" a particularly nasty form of torture. He has ties to the financing of 9/11 and to bin Laden. In other words, he belongs in jail. He was involved i the Whitewater witch hunt. He was also responsible for the round-up of all those thousands of Arab Americans after 9/11.

Under the new proposed immigration act (HR 418), the Secretary of Homeland Security can break any law (this would include allowing him to conduct a terrorist attack or create a death camp where everyone is killed) any time he wants and mo judicial review is allowed. Hitler's last pieces are falling into place with Chertoff and HR418. If Chertoff and 418 both get through, all Democrats better be making plans to get their families out of the country while they still can. While you're at it, also call your reps and tell them what you think of HR 418.

[indepat]

1. No need to call either of my Senators, both who will dutifully rubber-

stamp any nominee and vote for any desired legislation in to-to and lockstep like lemming rush out to sea.

[genius]

2. What state are you in?

[indepat]

3. Obviously a Red State

[Tigress DEM]

18. So look up all Democratic Senators and send them the same...

blanket statement.

Sort by party..

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?OrderBy=party&Sort=ASC

[Laceration5]

4. I'm in Florida and Nelson and Martinez's

offices both said they're voting YES.

[genius]

5. Nelson is a real slime. He's backed Bush all the way.

[Poppyseedman]

6. Did you actually read the Bill H.R. 418

I failed to find anywhere "allowing him to conduct a terrorist attack or create a death camp where everyone is killed"

SEC. 102. WAIVER OF LAWS NECESSARY FOR IMPROVEMENT OF BARRIERS AT BORDERS.

Section 102(c) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (8 U.S.C. 1103 note) is amended to read as follows:

`(c) Waiver-

`(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.

`(2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court shall have jurisdiction--

`(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1); or

`(B) to order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision.'.

It does give him great authority in constructing barriers and roads.


Chicken Little posts do nothing but tag this site as wacko.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.418:

[genius]

7. Ask any attorney if this provision would allow for it.The answer is "yes".

Attorney's will tell you about how the Commerce Clause has been construed to cover almost everything - even though this was not foreseeable at the time of the drafting of the Constitution. The truth is that provisions of a wide variety of laws are regularly used in ways the makers never intended. Yes, this provision absolutely does allow the Secretary of Homeland Security to create death camps and it allows him to get away with anything, including a terrorist attack upon Americans. It is a very dangerous provision. If Chertoff becomes the Secretary of HS, we will see him use this provision to break a wide variety of criminal statutes. Only a fortune-teller could tell you which ones he will break. But, given his predilection for rounding up thousands of people into detention camps, I wouldn't be surprised if people don't start disappearing again from our neighborhoods.

[Poppyseedman]

8. Any attorney???

I fully understand how the commerce clause is abused and misused for years to cover just about any conceivable federal or state law.

I don't agree with this amount of authority (HR 148 ) given to any politician or government agency.

But, How do you get from "constructing barriers and roads" to death camps and rounding people up? That's a pretty big leap, even for a genius

"given his predilection for rounding up thousands of people into detention camps,"

How do you know that? Has it happened in the past as to make you believe he would do it again?

"I wouldn't be surprised if people don't start disappearing again from our neighborhoods."

What do you mean by "again"? People have been rounded up and disappeared?

BTW, I'm not defending Chertoff or H.R.148, just trying to spread a little anti-hysteria

[genius]

9. Yes, any attorney. There doesn't have to be any real connection.

He could say that to ensure no problems with constructing these barriers, he needs to clear necessary dissidents (such as all Democrats) out of the United States or he needs to eliminate all the people living near the border (boom). It is not subject to judicial review so his decision and reasoning cannot be questioned. The lack of judicial review means that he can concoct any reasoning he wants and it stands. Chertoff is an attorney and, so he naturally knows how to argue that death camps and terrorist attacks are necessary to protect our borders. Even if we think his argurment is ridiculous, who is to question him. No one can, according to this law. Once you give someone the power to waive the law without judicial review, there is no limit to what he can do.

[Poppyseedman]

10. Okey Dokey

Nobody, regardless of any law on the books has absolute power without restraint in this country.

We have the press, we have a representative government. Both may be weak knee-ed at times or slow to react, but they are there as a balance to tyranny

So when are you moving your family out to avoid the coming death camps?

Where you going to?

[genius]

11. What we are seeing is the preparation for what they did in Germany

under Hitler. With HR 418, they are giving Chertoff the legal authorization to do as he pleases. To think he will be stopped is wishful thinking. Germans who were certain their leaders would protect them or that there must be some limit sadly found out they were wrong. Look at the people Bush is nominating and the legislation his people are pushing through Congress. So It is all part of a clear plan. It is better for us to be awake then to be awakened when we are loaded on the the trains bound for the camps.

[LARED]

12. Yes, I've heard the SS

got started by "constructing barriers and roads."

Of course this can lead right to an American Auschwitz.

[Tigress DEM]

19. WE have the press? What channel have you been watching?

If they pass this resolution it goes on to become a bill and a bill - good or bad - ammends the Constitution. Laws on the books determine what those in power can and cannot do. If we let this become a law it's there to be abused.

[genius]

22. Laws don't amend the Consitution but the Bush gang controls the High Court

They have been passing on the Constitution since 2000. Most of what the Bush gang has done violates the Constitution. It's as if the Constitution went out of existenace on 12/12/00. I can see them refusing to answer any questions on the grounds that the law says no judicial review. If Scalia needs convincing, Cheney will just take him duck hunting again.

Fox is taking over Clear Channel's news. We don't own one TV news station. The newspapers are consolidating, too. The only thing we can count on is the Internet and they are trying to take that away from us too.

[Tigress DEM]

17. First they get permission to build barriers....

Then if someone breeches the barrier, the need to build a detention area, only for Jews.... I mean illegal immigrants, then for anyone who voices an opinion that the treatment of the ... illegal immigrants is inhumane or unjust...

I'm sorry if it sounds hysterical. Think of how each ridiculous step this administration has taken has seemed so crazy that a logical person would have to say, "They really aren't doing that, are they?"

So don't freak out about hr418, don't get your undies in a bundle about Chertoff, but DO write your reps and say, hr418 has a section that violates our constitutional rights and this Chertoff is not the kind of person who should be in charge of homeland security.

[Tigress DEM]

16. Did YOU read this? What part of sole discretion and no judicial review ...

don't YOU get?

It is not "chicken little" to understand that allowing THIS administration to run a bulldozer through our Constitutional rights is stupid. Carte blanche authority is not to be given to ANYONE if we want to make sure there is no room for abuse of total power.

The commander in thief has a habit of appointing the absolute WRONG person to a post on purpose.

His EPA appointee is on record saying that a higher level of arsenic really isn't a problem.

His AG wrote a memo to have Bush authorize torture.

I could look up about 6 other "fox guarding the henhouse scenarios" that aren't a fairy tale - well maybe a Grimm Fairy Tale where if you don't watch your ass the bad guy eats you.

It isn't paranoid to think this administration might do anything. They have defied the Geneva conventions, they took us to war on false pretenses, tortured people not even convicted of a crime, covered up their mistakes, "lost" 8.8 million dollars etc ....

How much more do you need to see before you believe that giving this administration MORE power is just plain stupid. Whether YOU think that they WOULD abuse this power is beside the point.

NO ONE in a position to declare a state of EMERGENCY should have carte blance authority. That equates to martial law and is one of the first provisions most dictators establish. Regardless of whether YOU think the Bushits have our best intentions at heart THE POINT IS .....

NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THAT MUCH AUTHORITY THAT ISN'T SUBJECT TO ANYONE's ABILITY TO REVIEW AND RETRACT. IT's called checks and balances and if you had paid attention in history class you'd know.

[Poppyseedman]

20. I get it,

I also can read. Let me help you here understand why I paid attention to history class.

The bill, which still is not law and subject to a floor vote.

(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.

`(2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court shall have jurisdiction--

`(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1); or

`(B) to order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision.'.

In English it says the Secretary of Homeland Security can waive all laws necessary to ensure construction of the barriers and roads under this section.

No court can take any action or claim arising from the Secretary of Homeland construction of the barriers and roads under this section.

Please read up on what martial law is and isn't and what a state of emergency is and isn't. This bill authorizes neither.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't like any of this, but it pure unadulterated cow piles to think that the current administration is going to send democrats and the likes to death camps and people disappearing off the streets because the Homeland Security Chertoff can waive court battles and nuisance law suits to secure the San Diego border fence.

That's right, the San Diego border fence.

[genius]

21. Some day attend a law school class. You'll discover this is enough auth

You see, given that there is no judicial review, he could say that all citizens in San Diego or within 5,000 miles of San Diego need to be put in death camps so they don't interfere with the barriers and roads at any point in the future. And that's a conservative reading. I've seen much more liberal extensions of laws. He could claim that all Earlings have to be nuked to protect those roads and barriers. But it doesn't matter what the excuse as there is no judicial review. He could find a excuse to blow up London under this law. I kid you not. Check with someone who has experience with how laws may be construed. You'll find out that this provision could easily authorize death camps. I've already seen elsewhere that Hitler went about setting up the death camps with a similar excuse.

[Guaranteed]

24. Yeah, but San Diego people suck anyway! nt

[Poppyseedman]

25. You see, I kid you not

I have concluded that you must be a troll or so blind in your paranoia that you actually believe that the Homeland Security chief could by out right fiat put people in death camps in NYC or Boston because of a security fence being built in San Diego. He is limited to the wording of the law.

Do you actually believe that he could put people in death camps and not hear a peep from anyone? The media will sit on their hands? The military will willing follow illegal and immoral orders? The people of this great country will nod their heads in agreement while families are marched off to death camps?

It must be bizarre to live in your world.

[Just Me]

13. I emailed ALL my representatives two weeks ago.

I would STRONGLY URGE networking our opposition.

Wish I could post my opposition email here which included exceptional information provided on this blog.

Maybe, the "activist" threads should consider appointing a coordinator that posts on the "General" and "General *dash* Politics" threads. It seems to me that we are getting a bit too "compartmentalized" and way too thinly spread.

[genius]

15. I generally just go to the politics, elections and LBN threads.

You are right. There does need to be some coordination.

[IronLionZion]

14. My Senators are Santorum and Specter

But I've asked Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer to vote no.

Your poll is loaded and a bit paranoid. get a grip

[snowbear]

23. Call my senator... Have you seen my senator!?

He can't hear... he can barely even speak in coherent sentences any longer..

Good gawd - what is he.. 89-ish? Ted Stephens... :eyes:

By the time he shuffled all the way over to the phone, it would be time for a nap for the ol' boy! x(