Who Do You Think Will Be The Democratic Nominee In 2008?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Poll question: Who Do You Think Will Be The Democratic Nominee In 2008?

Not who do you want to win but who do you think will win...

[latteromden]

1. Clinton, if she wants it, unfortunately.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. I Think So...

She could beat rudy but i don't think rudy can win the pug nomination

[Cuban_Liberal]

4. Hillary won't win a single primary. n/t

[marcologico]

16. maybe Arkansas or NY but I don't see her taking Iowa or NH

or the nomination.

[Clark2008]

23. And if Clark's running, she won't win Arkansas

Trust me on this one.

[marcologico]

26. No argument, but do you think they'd run against each other?

My understanding is that they're riding in the same train.

[Thrill]

3. Mike Easley or Phil Breseden

[PurityOfEssence]

5. Boy. Clarkies, like termites, never sleep

He's got a lot going for him, but jeez.

[faithfulcitizen]

14. lol, I'm a Clarkie, but voted Bayh ;)

but I'd really *want* Clark! :P

[cobaindrain]

6. whoever runs, the field will quickly narrow to Bayh vs. Edwards

flip a coin

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. With those choices my coin came up Green.

I've given up voting for pablum Democrats.

[Crunchy Frog]

22. Ha, ha!

Mine just came up Green too!

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

88. Excuse me, are you telling me that I'm not

a registered Democrat? Because I believe you're wrong about that. I've been a registered Democrat for over twenty years and have voted almost exclusively Democratic during that time.

[Placebo]

8. If Hillary wants it, it's pretty much hers for the taking.

No one will be able to beat her superstar power.

[Yupster]

10. Agree placebo

The media will be all Hillary all the time. The other candidates will be starved of coverage and money. If she wants it, it's hers.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

25. Doubt that.

The media's fawning all over her w/ attention these days but eventually, even they get bored and a candidate has to have more than name recognition to advance. Remember, Lieberman was the media's favorite going into '04 and definitely had the name recog status, but after a couple months of campaigning that's no longer useful and all bets are off. The media, as usual, conflates being "centrist" on a superficial level (and having name recognition) with having the ability to go the distance. With Lieberman, the bloom was off the rose when he capitulated hook-line-and-sinker on Iraq (something that Hillary's also done). Edwards may have a similar problem, though mitigated in his case somewhat by having that built-in support in the Carolinas and the South in general. I'd say either Bayh or Clark is in best position to pounce.

[CatholicEdHead]

9. Where's Kucinich?

Have to keep him as an option.

[lonestarnot]

19. He's looking for 8.8 billion stolen in Iraq. I LOVE HIM!

[tiedye]

94. Me too

I think Dean poses a reasonable threat if you read how Howard Kurtz's wife Sheri Annis (read:Anus) went after him in her article called "Muzzling Dean". Search "Sheri Annis" on ask.com

But, if I had my druthers, I'd pick Kucinich because he is smarter. Kerry was not a threat, obviously, that's why the republicans cowed the dems into selecting him. Anti-war sentiment was at an alltime high according to reliable PIPA studies. All the dems had to do was pick an anti-war candidate.

[Clarkie1]

11. I'm going to make a bold prediction here...

I think it will be whoever gets the most delegates.

[Obviousman]

12. It's gonna be lieberman guy, I can feel it!

3rd time's the charm

[98geoduck]

13. None of the above. The candidate should be from outside the beltway

and Not a Losing candidate in the previous primaries.

Hopefully the DNC can come up with someone with just a "little" baggage, unlike their nominations in the past and present.

[Clarkie1]

15. lots of presidents were "losing" candidates in a previous primary

FYI.

I don't think it helps to label any of our potential candidates as "losers."

The Republicans do plenty of that.

[lonestarnot]

20. Kerry just got cheated plain and simple...old goat rover nazi horned him

:evilfrown:

[msongs]

17. the election is already stolen unless the dems do something to

fix the fixed evoting fraud situation.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[lonestarnot]

18. I'm tak'n old howlin' Howie! The unity man! Brilliance in action! n/t

[googly]

21. Clark wins EVERY poll on DU, LOL, why even bother!

Clark would have been the nominee by ladslide in 2004 if
DU had the final say.

[dogman]

24. Then he would definitely be the candidate in '08.

The power of incumbency.

[Tinoire]

27. Not all of DU

Not even most. Most of the old DUers are so sick of this propaganda that we want nothing to do with these threads started by DLC supporters/Clark supporters with an obvious agenda. And it's like this all over the internet. Just ignore it. The Clark movement is going no further in 2008 than it went in 2004 ;)

"Antiwar" General who writes a book called "waging Modern Warfare" indeed! No one's buying that crap no matter how many times the propaganda is cut and pasted. Don't attribute this to DU; attribute it instead to a very determined, organized and most of all very loud minority that's getting exposed all over the internet for thick propaganda & poll freeping.

You want links? I got the proof out the yin yang. You really want to laugh? The same posters you see here are the same ones annoying places like KOS and myDD who don't even want to put Clark in their polls anymore because of the obvious freeping (they call it "c"reeping).

The entire movement is just plain LOUD and annoying. Ignore it and carry one about your progressive business refusing to get into the silly white-knight-hero-worship.

[FrenchieCat]

28. boy, you are a bold one!

TINOIRE SAID CLARK SUPPORTERS ARE just plain LOUD and annoying. Ignore it and carry one about your progressive business

Isn't this against DU rules? In this case you personally attacked every single Clark supporter on the entire net.

I'm not even going to waste my time with you. You're not worth it.

[KittyWampus]

48. Tinoire is on this thread trashing Clark? LOL! Go FIGURE!!!

[BootinUp]

29. Shame you can't take your own advice though

quote:
"The entire movement is just plain LOUD and annoying. Ignore it..."

I found your post to be quite insulting, discouraging, and it really pissed me off. So I guess you accomplished something Tinoire. See you around.

[Adelante]

33. Can you get more offensive than this, Tinoire?

Clark supporters pay the same damn dues you do and our "agenda" is no less valid than anybody else's, including yours, including that of all these DUers:

President Russell D. Feingold

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x119120


Consider Lloyd Doggett in 2008

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x119731


I'm officially on the Feingold '08 bandwagon.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3067177


Obama/Boxer '08!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x119615


Why Gore, Kerry, and Edwards Should Run in '08

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1572052


2008 May Have "Virginia v. Va." or "NY v. NY" or "Mass. vs. Mass."
Mentions Warner, Clinto, Kerry, and Gore

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1561203


2008 Presidential Hopefuls Test Water

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1569955


Howard Dean/Barbara Boxer 2008?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1568719#top


Feingold sizes up presidential race

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1566184


Bayh 2008?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1564399


The Media, John Kerry, and 2008

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1569484


E.J. Dionne on "John Edwards wager"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1544562


John Edwards's Gamble (Dems desparate for conviction)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=101756#top


Thanks, John, But No Thanks! (re: John Kerry running in 2008)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=101026


John Kerry Announces new PAC working up to 2008 Run for Presidency!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=99078

Great analysis of Evan Bayh (2008).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=119649

Join Me: John F Kerry-President 2008

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=119308

They Just Announced On Crossfire John Edwards Will Run For President

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=118593

GORE GORE GORE GORE

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=117181

KERRY '08: It all starts right here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=118032

Barbara Boxer '08 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=119412


Gore 08, Dean DNC
Just what is says

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1532848

Al Gore In 2008! Come and join the fun!
Pure Gore

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1545733

Suppose Gore is the '08 nominee. Who for veep?
Like it says

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1539674

The writing on the wall: Hillary '08

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1548978

An Edwards/Boxer ticket could be awesome!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1544997

Hillary will win in '08 - it's inevitable
(Clinton again)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1534808

Hillary is already running for President.. Dems should follow her lead
(and Clinton again)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1531717

Opinion on Hillary for President
(and again...)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?
az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1531201

KERRY 08? Are you kidding me?
(not a happy backer)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1518201

Did Hillary minimize her chances in 2008 yesterday....?
Back to her again

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1516899

Al Gore or John Kerry for 08! Why? I'll tell you why.
Two standards

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1498090

Gore / Obama 08 ??? Is there a chance?
Another for Gore

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1499843

Do you want Howard as the Head of the DNC or the '08 candidate?
(Poll before Dean decided to go for DNC Chair)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1483798


Good bet for 2008: a Hispanic named Richardson

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x117624

Gee, we're sorry for breathing. :eyes: But anytime there is a pro-Clark thread or even mention in a post, you pull this sorry shit. There's a mechanism DU provides its members, you get to block any thread you do not like seeing. Do you take advantage of this? No, because you might actually miss a chance to spew your anti-Clark propoganda. If you're so sick of Clark all the time, try not provoking one of these negative discussions.

But then you wouldn't be pushing your agenda.

Hypocritical. Totalitarian. Rude.

[Tinoire]

41. You're breaking my heart.

:cry: I'm so traumatized :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Adelante]

45. You can feel better

Go tell all those non-Clarkist DUers they are not allowed to post what they want when they want, because it does not fit with your agenda, with what you decide is progressive or not progressive. That's what dictators do and you are so practiced at defending dictators.

Go ahead. Maybe you can become the DU Dictator! Maybe we can have you and your cohorts ONLY on DU. That little bit of anti-democracy would very likely make you stop crying, Tinoire.

[ClarkUSA]

37. What's a poll at DU without insults and accusations aimed at Clarkistas?

Talk about propaganda. You just can't accept that there is a large and dedicated grassroots group outside of yours in the Democratic Party.

You know what's hilarious? That the same people are the Clarkhating bashers around here peddling the same ol' nasty stories. That the same people are the Clark supporter-hating bashers around here trying to get people to "ignore" Clark.

So sorry there are so many real grassroots Clark supporters! I guess that's what happens when a Supreme Allied Commander of Europe saves 1.5 million Albanians from genocide. Some of those people and their kids must have computers, po?

Oh, and I heard that there were some really sick people who hacked into DU Clarkies and stole ID info. Now I wonder what kind of obsessive nutjob(s) would do that?

That's a federal crime, doncha know?

:smoke:

[cobaindrain]

75. Clark failed miserably in the 04 primaries

that's enough, stop clinging to clark!

we have nothing against him, let's just move on to other candidates with a real shot of winning. Evan Bayh and John Edwards have a chance, Clark is finished.

[BootinUp]

78. No! ;-)

Is it ok to disagree with you?

[ClarkUSA]

79. Clark won #1 in OK; won strong #2 in AZ, NM, ND; won #3 in NH and TN

Please read on:

Gen. Clark did quite well in 2004, considering he won blood-red OK, and came in a strong second in red-trifecta AZ, NM, and ND on mini-Tuesday, results which was second only to Kerry, as well as third in NH and a third in TN before he withdrew. He was the ONLY candidate during the primaries to win a state that was not his home state other than Kerry, too and it was the very red Heartland state of Oklahoma.

And he was the only candidate who outraised Dean (in December 2003, only three months after entering the race).

His only big mistake in 2004 was not going to the Iowa caucuses. That won't happen IF he runs in 2008. And AR plans to move their primary up to the first Saturday in February, which means he'll win his home state in 2008 IF he decides to run.

braindrain, please see response #49 and my complete reply #52.

[Jai4WKC08]

96. And Edwards failed miserably in the '04 GE

Couldn't deliver his own state. Not even his home county. Even tho the Democratic governor carried it.

Tell me again who's finished?

[Crunchy Frog]

42. Bet you're hoping to get LOTS of flames

from this post.;-) Pretty cute!;-) ;-)

[marcologico]

46. Moral of the story: you can't buy votes.

The internet however is a commodity.

[BlueManDude]

30. Al Gore

[FreeStateDemocrat]

31. Richardson will be VP nominee.

[BootinUp]

32. My gut says he will be a strong contender

for POTUS some of my fellow Clarkies disagreed with me though. :)

VP, yea I could see that.

edited, missed where you said for VP.

[MoonRiver]

34. I really don't know, but I hope it's either Clark or Gore, in that order.

So I voted for Clark.

[WI_DEM]

35. Dean will not be running since he ruled himself out

to run for the DNC post. He might be VP if he is asked, but he will not seek the Democratic nomination. As for the rest, I'm officially undecided.

As for who I think will win? I think Hillary has an excellent chance to win the nomination--it's the general election I worry about. I'm also thinking that Kerry is making all the right moves in the post election and keeping his name before the public that he may turn out to be stronger than we think if he seeks a renomination. Then there are the dark horses--I think Bayh could be a serious candidate especially in the red states. But as of right now I think '08 is Hillary's to lose.

[googly]

71. In my book Dean is head & shoulders above others for Prez, but

I will settle for Chairman Dean.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClarkUSA]

38. Do some Dean supporters have anything better to do than bash Clarkistas

Um, don't you have some wild celebrating to do with Tinoire?

Gee, I can't wait for the next four years.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClarkUSA]

44. I count eight threads on GDP devoted to Dean and not one for Clark

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=132

"Mild celebration will be had when people confine their candidate advocacies to their candidate forums where like-minded people give a rat's ass about hearing that crap." Shouldn't you follow your own advice and tell these people to stop posting about Dean, then? :tinfoilhat:

This totalitarian hatred of all things Clark is so obviously motivated by irrational hypocrisy from an identifiable group of Dean supporters. Isn't it a little early to be organizing a Stop-Clark campaign at DU?

Progressive thinking is marked by tolerance. Your remarks are anything but tolerant.

[Tom Rinaldo]

53. It's just a small group of posters, no matter what the group, who get ugly

Whether or not they happen to support Dean or not is irrelevant, it is not representative of any big picture. Those few are the types who leap to demeaning generalizations about other people and their motives. Those few are the types who jump onto an innocent thread someone started about 2008 potential presidential candidates, and use it as a soap box, unprovoked by any comment made here, to smear all supporters of one Democratic candidate.

I would just leave Dean and all of his many supporters out of this and focus instead on the handful of DU posters who go looking for fights.

[ClarkUSA]

60. I said "some" and it is the truth

There is an axe to grind and for reasons only clear to those who perpetrate this constant Stop-Clark effort at DU, it's time to stop ignoring the source.

[Tinoire]

54. As much as I've never been a strong Dean supporter

Dean is current news right now since he's taking over the DNC. Clark isn't. Dean's all over the news and TV. Clark isn't. No one's thrusting Dean on anyone- just reporting/duscussing pertinent current events. IOW dealing with today's reality rather than trying to orchestrate a fantasy that doesn't sit well with many on the Left.

As long as people like Clark lack the support of progressive groups and people like Chomsky and Medea Benjamin, don't expect it to go over well.

[Tom Rinaldo]

55. I never tell anyone not to start threads. It's that simple

There can be 40 Dean threads running and I won't complain. I pick and chose what I want to read. And the supposed authoritarian powers you seem to suppose that I or some other active Clark supporters have is unreal. You may be surprised to know that quite a few core Clarkies here would gladly settle for less Clark threads right now because they only seem to invite those who push them toward flame fests. But we don't control the internet. Clark supporters are individuals just like everyone else. If one or more of them feel moved to start a Clark thread then they will and you and I can ignore them if we choose.

The majority of discussion taking place about Clark on DU lately is showing up on all of the candidate poll threads people seem compelled to post. It is rarely a Clarkie starting those.

[BootinUp]

57. fact check and some additional comments

Saying that Clark is not in the news or on tv just isn't accurate though. Obviously the DNC chair is the big story, but Clark has been making regular tv appearances since the general election right through to yesterday, discussing issues important to many democrats. Guess you missed him on his recent appearances on Fox (yesterday), and MSNBC (last week) for instance.

He is fighting the good fight, and I see no reason that people should not vote in little internet polls or not talk about what he is doing or has done.

Personally, I originally liked Kucinich for POTUS, after reading and learning about his record early in 2002. It was when I saw he was not a serious contender that I looked some more and started advocating for Clark.

I think you probably know already that Clark has been supported by folks covering a broad spectrum of political viewpoint. We are not mindless clarkbots, we are people like you fighting to turn our country around.

It would be nice if more posts around here focused on our shared interests and were not just petty name-calling, don't you think?

[ClarkUSA]

59. Oh, please! Tell this fairytale to someone who hasn't read your posts!

And now you are making up the rules as to whom gets to post what? Take a look at the Message Rules because I missed the part you posted above.

There are threads about Hilary Clinton and Barbara Boxer and Kerry and Edwards now but none on Clark on GSD now:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=132

Not that I mind at all because it's nice to see such enthusiasm from candidate's supporters. Just thought you might mind, though, from the way you are talking. :eyes:

You said: "As long as people like Clark lack the support of progressive groups and people like Chomsky and Medea Benjamin, don't expect it to go over well."

So now you get to arbitrate who "goes over well" at DU and who doesn't?

By the way, General Clark was endorsed in 2004 by the following: George McGovern, Michael Moore, Earth Day founder Senator Gaylord Nelson (as well as asked to run for President by President Jimmy Carter), Enron whistleblower Sherrie Watson, over 55 U.S. Ambassadors and diplomats (including many who quit rather than serve under Bush), the Lt. Gov. of Wisconsin Barbara Lawton (who campaigned in NH with George McGovern and Michael moore for Wes Clark), the 5-term Head of the Human Rights Commission Dr. Mary Frances Berry, the one-million hits per day online newpaper Native American Times, Latino Civil Rights Activist Herman Gallegos, and Vermont's tribal Abenaki Nation as well as several Native American tribal leaders' endorsements in OK.

Hmmm, sounds like he's got the backing of some pretty progressive groups to me. :smoke:

"There are a lot of good Democrats in this race. But Wes Clark is the best Democrat. He is a true progressive. He's the Democrat's Democrat. I've been around the political block - and I can tell you, I know a true progressive when I see one. And that's why he has my vote."

~ George McGovern, Manchester, NH on January 18, 2004

[JNelson6563]

64. Just this morning there were two

"Isn't Clark dreamy" sort of threads. It's getting out of hand. If I were a Clark supporter I would be embarrassed by some of the Tiger-beat crap that gets posted just to keep Clark "visible".

Julie

[ClarkUSA]

67. I have been on this board since 8 AM and have seen nothing of the sort

You must mean this thread topic:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1587364

Still not one Clark thread topic on GDP (it's 1:30 PM now) but let's ignore the facts.

Cultists tend to do that. :tinfoilhat:

[Crunchy Frog]

92. Nice find there ClarkUSA!

:toast: :yourock:

[Tom Rinaldo]

68. It helps nothing

to act catty. Is it that hard to just let go? Those supposedly silly threads would just sink under their own weight if so much derision wasn't constantly being posted about them, thus bumping them back to the top of the page until a spat ignites and guarantees another hundred posts back and forth.

[Crunchy Frog]

91. Could you post links please?

I didn't see them, but then I didn't go around looking for them. Is it possible that you made them up and are simply presuming people will believe they exist just because you said they did without providing evidence? Or were there a couple of threads that dared to mention Clark, and you interpreted them as "isn't he dreamy" threads? After all, one can interpret anything one wants any way one wants, especially if no one else can see the original to make their own judgements.

[Clark2008]

66. Actually, Clark IS all over the news

Why don't you get familiar with this:

http://www.u-wes-a.com/mediaclips-post.html

He's on the news almost nightly now - certainly several times a week.

[Adelante]

56. You know how it works

They say it enough times in enough threads -- cultists, cultists, cultists -- maybe people will believe them.

The Vast Clark Wing Conspiracy :tinfoilhat:

[ClarkUSA]

62. Bingo, bingo, bingo

It's pathetic that this happens in any thread where Wes Clark's name appears.

To have such a real hate-on is .... :tinfoilhat:

So are we going to let it deter a few bad apples keep us from posting about our candidate of choice?

Hell, no!

:grouphug:

[JNelson6563]

65. Barely concealable disdain

I guess you're about to get well acquainted with the concept of hatin' life. With Dean chairing the DNC he'll be relevent and discussed ALOT. Ya'll can post all the Tiger-beat style Clark posts you want, the disparity will only be more apparent.

It woudl inspire sympathy in me if it weren't so...so...oh let's go with counter-productive so as not to make anyone cry.

Julie

[ClarkUSA]

69. Yep, that's all what you're about, Julie -- you put it better than I could

The difference: I don't care how many threads there are about whoever and neither does any other Clarkista here. What is getting tiresome is the constant uberpolicing of DU threads by self-righteous hypocrites.

I also am too young to know what you mean by "Tiger-beat" but it must be a term from the mid-20th century?

But thanks for the royal permission to "post all the Tiger-beat style Clark posts you want," Oh Queen of Dean! Maybe you should confer with Tinoire, who seems to have a different opinion.

[Clark2008]

76. And Dean won't be running for office.

He said he wouldn't if he won chair. So difference does it matter if people are talking about him?
And, I believe it was the Edwards fans who were the best at posting Tiger-Beat posts. :)

BTW, Clark is on television nearly every day. And, not once, has anyone shown him screaming. :P

[KittyWampus]

50. Just For Fun, I Voted For Kerry... And I LOVE Clark.

[bush_is_wacko]

82. I'm going with this one! I think it just MIGHT be a hell of a surprise!

An awful lot of Dem's are growing armor-plated backbones and some big brass balls! this is going to be fun!

[Moderator]

97. Locking.

This thread has deteriorated into a flame war.

[Dr Ron]

40. Don't underestimate Kerry

Kerry may or may not get it, but he has a much better chance than previous loser of general elections. A lot depends upon how effective he is at becoming a true opposition leader, and he seems to be working in that direction

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/?view=plink&id=358

[inslee08]

43. I like Richardson

His experience (D.O.E.) looks very good to a lot of voters, he will bring more Hispanics to the Dems side. He'll be a contender, although he may just end up being the VP nominee.

[mdmc]

47. GORE

anything else is devisive...

[Placebo]

49. I don't understand why Clark is leading this poll...

by such a huge margin. Why do people think he'll do better in 2008 than he did in 2004? There's going to be bigger names out in 2008 than he had to deal with in 2004; Clinton, Kerry (maybe), Richardson, Gore (maybe), Dean (maybe), the list goes on! How is he going to break out from a pack like that? Seriously.

[ClarkUSA]

52. National Security issues, as every single DNC Chair candidate has said

is what McAuliffe, Dean, Frost, & every DNC chair agrees is what mattered in 2004.
It dominated the 2004 election and was the Democratic Party's Achilles' Heel against the GOP right down the ticket. There was no coattail effect by Kerry in the South and Midwest/Heartland, either.

Gen. Clark did quite well in 2004, considering he won blood-red OK, and came in a strong second in red-trifecta AZ, NM, and ND on mini-Tuesday, results which was second only to Kerry, as well as third in NH and a third in TN before he withdrew. He was the ONLY candidate during the primaries to win a state that was not his home state other than Kerry, too and it was the very red Heartland state of Oklahoma.

And he was the only candidate who outraised Dean (in December 2003, only three months after entering the race).

His only big mistake in 2004 was not going to the Iowa caucuses. That won't happen IF he runs in 2008. And AR plans to move their primary up to the first Saturday in February, which means he'll win his home state in 2008 IF he decides to run.

And if we are fighting a three-front war with Iraq, Afghanistan, and Iran by 2008, I think voters will be looking for someone who can "keep them safe."

I agree that Hilary is a very strong contender (I am not a Hilary hater at all - I think she's very kewl), but she loses to McCain in every poll matchup and it's because of his national security/well-known military background/strong white male appeal to independents and moderates in both Parties.

The Democrats need to offer a candidate that can connect to ordinary voters in all 50 states the way McCain obviously can. In 2008, McCain won't be derailed by Bushie dirty tricks again the way he was in 2004 since he proved what a cowboy's bootlicker he can be when it's to his benefit. Veterans and their families are a large minority in many many states. We need a candidate who can appeal to them as well.

Breakdown polling among registered Democrats before the Iowa caucuses consistently showed Clark leading all other Democrats in the lower socioeconomic ranges and he came in second only to Dean in the upper-middle-class range and not by much, either. He also came in first in preference among the Independents and Republicans who were polled.

We need someone with all-around appeal across the nation who is a true liberal democrat in moderate's clothing and Wes Clark is the only guy that fits that MO in the lineup above, IMO.

[BootinUp]

58. just taking a stab at one of your questions

- Why do people think he'll do better in '08?

Did you know he started very late in the '04 race and in fact had no ground game in Iowa? Yet, he still won one primary and had a number of seconds and thirds. He also had the largest "grassroots" backing second to Dean. Many DO think he can do very well in '08, but opinions vary of course.

[Jai4WKC08]

73. I see no "bigger names" on your list

Clinton's maybe. IF she runs, there are a helluva lot of people who foresee the electability problems facing 1) a New Yorker, 2) a senator, 3) a woman (we will still be at war), and 4) anyone with the Clinton baggage. Personally, I think she's smart enough to see all that too and so will not run, or maybe run with an eye to being someone's VP.

But the others? Kerry and Dean can't be "bigger names" since they're the same. Kerry with his loss in '04, his unwillingness to fight it, the mistakes he made. Dean with perception problems of his own. Gore? Again, a prior loss, directly attributable to the poor quality of his campaign, at least to some extent. Richardson? Surely you jest.

And there are many reasons to be SURE that Clark will run a better campaign in '08. He'll start earlier. He's have a better choice of staff. It won't be his first try--he's learned a LOT, both in his own campaign and working with Kerry.

Besides, he didn't do so bad. Outlasted some very seasoned, popular and qualified contenders: Gephardt, Graham... Lieberman. Ok, say what you like about Lieberman, but he was the 2000 VP nominee, which gave him a serious starting advantage.

There are many cases of people who failed to gain the nomination the first time they tried and went on to win the nomination, even the general election, the next time around. And the Big Dawg, quite possibly the smoothest politician of our lifetime, lost a few campaigns along the way.

If Clark runs in '08, he'll be a contender.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. The Flames In This Thread Make Me Chuckle

eom

[FromTheLeft]

61. Here is a new Idea

Instead of backing a candidate 4 years before the election why not let them all go with the notion that he/she who acts in the best interest of the part for the next 3 years. The one that then, not now, then, truly represents the issues of the party gets the nod.

If the leaders of our party feel as though they have lost the nomination that they feel they deserve they may hold of on the high points of their agenda for 2012 when they feel they have a better chance at the nod. I know that is a terrible approach and we should all hope that our leaders are always leaving it all on the field but it would be naive of us to think that.

Political Posturing is part of Politics in general. By letting the people who want to run think it is up in the air until the moment the nomination is announced puts the pressure to show themselves as the front runner squarely on them and their actions.

[ThorsHammer]

63. I'd like to see Clark, but it's Hillary's for the taking

I'd like to see a Clark/Richardson ticket. IMO they could oppose neocon policies without being painted as a 'rich MA liberal' type to mainstream America. I also think they could easily win several red states, like AZ, NM, AR, CO, and FL.

[ClarkUSA]

70. I agree

and your reasoning for a Clark/Richardson ticket is very persuasive. They'd pull in two 2004 red states at least and dispense with the "rich Northeast New England liberal" label easily.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

72. So Many Flames In This Thread ....So Little Time....

It's very sad...


The net is an amazing thing but it's anonymity allows some folks to ignore the rules of civil discourse...

[NoPasaran]

77. I won't be surprised

If it's someone who's not even on our radar at the moment.

[jsw_81]

80. I will probably support John Kerry

But I think that Hillary Clinton will get the nod. Should she run, she'll be unbeatable, at least in the primaries.

I see the organized Clark fans are screwing with the poll again. Clark is popular in some circles, but he's not this popular!

[bush_is_wacko]

81. Clark?

I haven't heard many outside DU singing his praises. What do you like so much about the guy. I guess I need more information on him. Is it just his military background? He seems a little "under the radar-ish" to me. Clark supporters tell me about him please!

[BootinUp]

83. You might try

the DU groups forum for Clark. Good stuff there. There has been a few good threads in GD-Politics this week also. I'd get you some links but I got to jump on a server upgrade project. :)

edit: you gotta watch those colons in your text, some funny smilies pop up unintentionally.

[bush_is_wacko]

86. Thanks! I'll take a look!

[Tom Rinaldo]

84. An honest question deserves a good answer

There was a great DU thread started on January 31 st by someone asking just about the exact same question. The thread title was:

"Question for the Wesley Clark supporters......" and the lead post read:

"can you folks tell me what drew you to Clark? This is not meant to flame or stir things up, but I never understood his appeal. For me he was a johnny come lately in the primaries who offered nothing more than a uniform. He grew on me a little, but I'd like to hear more from thoughtful supporters. Thanks."

A lot of people gave long and sincere replies to that question. It is an excellent read if you want to know more about why Clark has many strong grass roots supporters. Here is the link to that thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1548301

In addition I suggest that you visit the Clark Supporters Group here at DU. Go looking for the "Favorite quotes by Clark" thread for some amazing ones that will give you a lot of insight. Plus you can ask this question in peace over there. It is sad but there is a small group here at DU that goes ballistic every time Clark's name comes up leading to the trashing of many threads.

Here's the supporters group link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=235

[bush_is_wacko]

85. Thanks! It was an honest question and I appreciate the info! I will read

it thoroughly and research what I can! I am a Kerry supporter but the Dem's are showing me many prospects for the next election cycle and I'd like to be able to choose wisely! I am always open to truthful information!

[bush_is_wacko]

90. Another question to you tom...

How do you think Clark can gain support? I read one of your posts and I do remember hearing almost the exact same thing about Clark from two people, both of whom were in the military. One is a veteran of Vietnam, the other was in the navy, I believe, he has since died, and they are both people I respect. Very liberal and truly OPEN to the world, not to mention they both seem to have a natural scholarly approach to things even though they never went to college. I love people that educate themselves just because they love learning!

Do you have any ideas to get Clark some publicity? Has he been involved in any legislation issues that could gain public attention. As I said before I am a Kerry supporter, but things are changing rapidly in the Democratic Party and I want all the info I can get on EVERYBODY to really get a sense of direction.

Feel free to PM me if you want to avoid a flamed thread.

[kodi]

87. hah! lotta' clarkies on site tonight! either Al Gore or Wes Clark

If Gore wants the nomination, I think he can get it. I do not anticipate the same kind of fight in the 2008 primaries we saw in 2004.

If Clark and Gore are running I do not think we will see the guttersniping usually seen in primaries. Voters wil find that Gore and Clark agree on so much, it will distill down to who has a better campaign organization.

Gore's pluses are that he is an experienced politician who gave his all to the party; Clark, that he is unencumbered by "politics as usual."

Negatives are the bullseye painted on on Gore's back by the media. Clark's are that that he has never held PUBLIC office.

Both negatives are superficial.

Gore was mistreated in the media in 2000, but the rise of the internet and blogs will not allow the same type of character assassination, and Clark as SAC-NATO held about as poltical a job as it gets without being an elected official.

I hope for a Gore/Clark ticket, but if either holds the top spot on the ticket, I feel the Republic is safe.

[martymar64]

89. What about RFK Jr?

Watch his star rise . . .

[seahawky]

95. Edwards 2008

[Darranar]

93. I have no idea. It is far too early. n/t