My Republican boss: why Democrats lost the election

[talkinghand]

I was making idle chit-chat with my boss the other morning, and Bush's re-election came up. I remarked it was hard to believe he won, considering the state of the nation and the world, not to mention the highest gas prices in history.

A smoldering look came over his face which I'd never seen before. "Do you want to know why the Democrats lost? Do you really want to know?" he asked...

"It's because people want to vote for what's RIGHT. Everyone knows Democrats are for what's EVIL. Abortion. Homosexuality. That's EVIL. And as long as Democrats keep on being FOR evil, they will keep on losing. Sure, Bush screwed a bunch of stuff up. If the Democrats would have just been more like the Republicans, and quit being for EVIL, they would have won."

This is from a guy who knows virtually NOTHING about politics. And quite frankly, he isn't really too bright. But he's a hard-working homeowner with a 25-year career and a couple of teenagers. In other words, a typical voter. And yes, he did vote.

This is the kind of thinking we're up against. And I have to admit I'm at a loss as to how to break through. This guy, and people like him, aren't interested in anything remotely appearing to be a progressive agenda. I'm afraid we are going to ultimately lose the so-called "culture wars" due to this sort of perception.

I for one am tired of the battle. I didn't even argue with the guy -- I'm getting to the point of "What's the use, anyway?"

[coloradodem2005]

1. You have got to be kidding me.

He said that? God.

[Just Me]

33. "Sounds" like a personal DU LOUNGE post,....to "Just Me".

:shrug:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. what kind of work do you do?

your boss sounds like a total phillistine...

[smirkymonkey]

3. How is it that he's YOUR boss, instead of the other way around?

He sounds like a MORAN of the highest order.

Besides, we won.

[Nite Owl]

4. Sorry he's your boss and you

have to be in contact with that kind of thinking.

So what does he think of Gannon and the gay porn? Is it still evil if a Repuke does it? How do they bypass all the evil of this WH, something you really have to be brainwashed to accomplish.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. one of my bosses was 100% pug but he was pro choice and pro gay rights...

he just loved pug economics...

[Shredr]

36. That's how my boss is

Says he's fiscally conservative but socially liberal. Claims he voted for Kerry.

[leesa]

59. "fiscally conservative" I always hear that from very misinformed

Republicans. They are the ones who actually believe Republicans are fiscally conservative when the exact opposite is always true. They always jack up corporate welfare and military-industrial complex spending to obscene levels. The only thing they ever cut are social programs. Mean people.
Tell your boss to actually LOOK at the real data.

[wuushew]

5. Have you considered LSD in the coffee?

at this point only the world's most powerful psychoactive drugs could accomplish any degree of mind expansion.

[DancingBear]

6. Tell him you're gay

and volunteer on weekends at Planned Parenthood.

Then get his response on film, and send it to me. :evilgrin:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. Huh..couple of teenagers....poetic justice is right around the corner

his daughter will get an abortion and his son will be gay

[LittleClarkie]

9. Liberal Satanists for Aborted Homosexual

I don't think I'd have known what to say either. I wonder who he listens to on the radio. Or is it his church.

As for none to bright, are there certain Republicans who are trying to destroy public schools? I'm afraid I don't have a high opinion of home schooling, because I've seen a few dims trying to do it, and I shudder to think what the kids are learning. But sometimes I wonder if certain folk want us as dumb as possible.

[sandnsea]

10. My Republican friend disagrees

Kerry didn't stand up and explain his war protesting. Every Vietnam vet would have fought tooth and nail for him if he'd stood up for that now the way he did then. That's what he said.

We talked for a long time today, hadn't seen him in about a year. It was a great talk, I'm going to write up a piece on it. Abortion and homosexuality didn't even come up. He considers the haters fringe lunatics.

[politicaholic]

11. Great job!

No reason to lose your livelyhood over his ignorance.

Next time I suggest you personalize it and simply say:

"Bob, this isn't the great struggle between good and evil, it's simply democracy. I believe in a woman's right to choose and I certainly hope you don't view ME as evil. Come on, really, we're all in this together."

[liberal43110]

12. This is why it's useless for Dems to be Republican-lite

People like this guy (and a huge number of Americans are just like him) will NEVER vote for a Dem. We can have bright candidates articulate the issues intelligently, but these people will not vote for a Dem.

So it doesn't make any more sense for Dems to compromise everything to the point of being wishy-washy.

We need to stand up FOR what we believe. Period.

[uppityperson]

13. Sometimes you have to walk away from them. I am tired & afraid too.

He sounds like he's really angry. And yes, there are many people who think this way. And have bought into the fear mongering. And it may be hopeless.

My fear is that it will just fester along so long, and not get bad enough for change. My husband's fear is that it will get bad enough.

Sometimes you have to walk away, and sometimes take a break. And then come back and try again and again and again because everything we do positive does help in some little way.

[Generator]

14. He would feel mighty comfy with the Taliban

And you are right-you can't argue morality. That's why we have a constitution to save us from those that want to kill us and torture us and tell us how to live based on their GOD.

[Mz Pip]

15. Your boss is

an ignorant twit. That's what we're up against - ignorant twits who vote and refuse to listen to anything other than 5 second soundbites.

Just because the Repugs repeat stupid talking points over and over again doesn't make them true.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

34. They are not twits, just misinformed and misguided.

They are brainwashed.

It's the media. Until we break the stranglehold corporate weasels have on broadcast media, people will think like this guys boss, because it's being pumped into their heads 24/7.

[Mz Pip]

49. We watch the same media

and somehow manage to discern fact from spin. I watch Faux and know exactly what they are doing. IMHO anyone who can't see that what these RW media player put out is nothing but crap IS a twit.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[baldguy]

16. Bush won because fear is an easier sell than hope.

Irrational, unreasoning, unyielding fear comes straight from the reptilian emotional base of our brain.

Hope requires thought, and information to think with.

[Avalux]

17. It's a losing battle - cult mentality

No matter what you say or do, convincing these people their arguments are illogical does no good. They are completely under the influence and have lost the ability to think for themselves. Read up on how cults control people. The GOP is a cult.

[LostInAnomie]

18. That is the reason I think the Democrats are going to lose for awhile.

Absolute thinking.

There is no discussion arguing with people who think in absolutes. Just look at what he said: "It's because people want to vote for what's RIGHT. Everyone knows Democrats are for what's EVIL. Abortion. Homosexuality. That's EVIL." There is no debate with people who have formed concrete opinions about subjective subjects.

No matter how much you discuss they will never think abortion, and homosexuality are not evil. They are convinced of their own righteousness and nothing will sway them.

[Telly Savalas]

25. But people have been engaged in such absolute thinking for millenia

We can still win. Not every Bush voter is as mired in a 17th century mindset as the original poster's boss. Guys like that have always existed, always will exist, and at this juncture in history they form the GOP's base. Our basis for hope is that even though the Republicans win elections, their hardcore base like the o.p.'s boss don't constitute a majority of the electorate. If we have a clear and simple positive alternative to the GOP, then there's the potential to mobilize our base and win over swing voters. Clinton did it in the 90's and it's not like the dittoheads were any more nuanced back then. Newt Gingrich, head of the disloyal opposition at the time, wrote the book on absolute thinking.

[LostInAnomie]

29. Therein is the problem: nuance.

It is impossible to get any kind of nuance across if people don't have the attention span for it. We are a party of complex ideas where absolutes can't exist. Our message takes time to get across, and a willingness to understand. With the modern media being what it is their is no time to get a message across that can't be summed up is a succinct sound bite. That is why we are probably going to have to wait for something to really mess up, and I mean undeniably mess up before we are back in power.

Even when Clinton won there was always the ~40% who voted the other way. They were the absolutes. With the "War on Terra", and gay marriage the absolutes have added to their ranks and it is going to take a hard fought uphill battle to gain any of them back.

[ourbluenation]

19. this is a good question...

unfornately it cannot be answered in simpleton sound bites. That's our biggest challange.

Abortion - I'm a democrat and I believe, like Bill, that it should be safe, legal...and rare. The question is - how does one make it rare? Answer - by providing easy access to knowledge (sex education) and birth control (funding clinics). You want less abortions? Vote democrat because we work hard to make sure unwanted pregnancies are reduced. You wnat more abortions? Vote republican - they advocate abstinance programs only and less funding for social programs like public health clinics.

Homosexuality - Every tax paying, law abiding citizizen of this country is entitled to full and equal protection under the law. Period. Marriage provides many, many more legal benefits than civil unions and that is just not fair and frankly, unamerican. It's called discrimination.

You see - this would require some thought process and that is asking a lot with many americans.

[lady lib]

26. Nicely said. n/t

[TomClash]

20. You boss is the one who's evil

He's a Know-Nothing. That should be his nickname from now on.

If you don't know what that was - look it up - you'll have a good laugh.

Here's what's evil:

1. failing to protect the country on 9/11
2. denying health insurance to 40+ million people
3. paying people less than a living wage
4. killing Iraqi children
5. stealing from the poor
6. giving to the rich
7. locking up people without charging them with a crime
8. losing jobs
9. intolerance
10.lying

[Laurab]

39. Worst of all - lying to start a preemptive war

That has killed thousands of our own, tens of thousands of innocents, affected the entire world (and not in a good way), and, rather than figuring out how to get out of the mess with as little loss of life as possible, most likely plotting our next senseless war. Not to mention that his bullying tactics are being frowned on by quite a few nations with nukes, who are seemingly forming friendly coalitions. He won't be happy until he kills us all. Ahh the Rapture, I guess.

THAT'S evil!

[TomClash]

51. Agreed! nt

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. And then he went back to his office and sat down at his desk and

turned on his portable T.V....set to Fox News, of course. :eyes:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. he prolly went on the net and cruised the hot boys sites

eom

[Delarage]

22. I'm a Democrat. I'm not "for" abortion.

I'm for everyone being treated fairly and equally. I think we should do everything in our power to discourage abortions while keeping the procedure legal for extreme cases.

What I am seriously against is the TRULY IMMORAL economic policies of the Repukes--give money to the wealthy so they can piss down (sorry--"trickle") on us. Cut every social service in the budget but spend 1 billion dollars a week to kill (Thou shalt not...) Iraqis. Cut environmental regulations to destroy God's green Earth. Repukes are EVIL and they can suck my liberal ass.

[lady lib]

24. Say, "Hmmm...interesting, so if I'm a Democrat,

then I'm evil? What do you see in me that's evil - be specific." Then if he wants to get biblical on you, quote Matthew 7 verses 1-2
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Jesus didn't talk about abortion or homosexuality. He talked about not storing up treasures on earth, loving your enemies, praying for those who mistreat you, giving to those who ask of you, forgiving others, and NOT JUDGING them. See Luke 6 verses 20-45.

So if you want to confuse him, tell him you'll pray for him and then buy him lunch.

[Stinky The Clown]

27. Your boss is one of "The Lost"

"The Lost" will never vote for a Dem. Never.

Some Republicans, however, may well vote for a Dem.

"The Lost" are the ones who are really out there at the fringes, with thoughts and beliefs they cannot articulate from their mind, only from their heart and will never vote for a Dem. Never.

Some Republicans are capable of thought and critical thinking, and may well vote for a Dem.

"The Lost" get their views from one of two places - the right wing echo chamber or their preachers and will never vote for a Dem. Never.

Some Republicans have actually come to their beliefs honestly, and may well vote for a Dem.

This litany could go one much longer. The fact is, "The Lost" are just that. Lost to us. Forever. Some Republicans, however, may well support our side for the right candidate or over some specific issue or set of issues. We can reach them. We don't need many. We can do it. If one comes to one's beliefs honestly, then they really will find themselves more in agreement with us than with the other side. We should not compromise. We should not move center or right. We should just find a way to articulate our message clearly and passionately. Small phrases. Ubermemes. Show passion and conviction. Don't waver. Don't do nuance.

Just fucking stand for something!

Some Republicans may well vote for a Dem.

[lavenderdiva]

28. my husband's aunt told me I had no morals

since I voted for Kerry, and that I also must watch Oprah. What in the world these two things have in common, I am at a loss to say. But she sounds just like your boss, and I too, am at a loss for a comeback. The utter moronic logic is baffling to me, and I am mystified by it.

[Geek_Girl]

30. Sounds like most of the Bush supporters I know

I've pretty much given up. Maybe one day they'll wake up but I doubt it.

[seaj11]

31. I just can't

tell you how mad this makes me. How did some Americans get to the point of vilifying people who don't think like them? Argh! :grr:

[Sparkle]

32. You should have mentioned Cheney's daughter.

The idiot.

[agincourt]

35. The democratic party knows politics,

but it doesn't know how to do cult de-programming. The republican party is just a respectable moonie-cult. Don't know what advice to give there.

[Jack Rabbit]

37. And torture and lying are virtuous

It must be that way, right?

[G_Moon]

38. I feel the same way about republician....

At least they have given me ample reasons for feeling this way. Even, that statement ... they have no morals, a blanket smear at best betrays Christianity. Case and point, they have supported the attack and invasion of countries, neighbors, without reason.

Actually, we lost because we played by the rules. The republican play the political game as a win - at - all - cost affair. Breaking a few rules for them is OK. Once in office, republicians stick together. They know a slap on hand does not matter as long as you possess the prize. And.. you can always change the rules to your advantage.

[lady lib]

40. Welcome to DU, G_Moon

[Cats Against Frist]

50. Welcome to DU!!

:hi: :smoke:

[TheOriginalAmerican]

41. Stand up for your values.

Religious Right values are immoral. Say that you think they're immoral and why. You won't win your boss, but you'll win others in life.

However, I wouldn't argue with my boss. In fact, I'd remind him/her that work isn't an appropriate place to discuss politics if I could do it in a way that I wouldn't be fired.

Self-righteous piece of dirt.

[marcologico]

42. Rush + Fox + "tax cuts" + bad religion = Bush voter

don't even try, you're way outnumbered.

[B0S0X87]

43. Ahhh... values voters

A little lip service towards a gay marriage ban and a "culture of life" and you've got thirty million votes in the bag.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

44. But the Democrats didn't lose the election...

guessing though that he wouldn't want to hear that.

[AP]

45. This is why Lakoff says Democrats need a values framework.

It's why Edwards said the one thing he regreted the most about the last three months of the campaign was that he didn't get to tell voters about his values.

[marcologico]

46. How could Edwards say that? That's basically all he talked about!

Two Americas? Hope is on the way? It was a pretty good pitch if you ask me.

[PassingFair]

52. Blah, blah, blah, Edwards never shut up about his values...

ma daddy was a mill worker, blah, blah, blah.

Here's how I handle these wankers, and it works just about every time.
"You're against homosexuality?"
"Should it be ILLEGAL"?
"What should the penalty be"?

"Death by stoning"?

They usually can't answer by this time. Then I hit them with this:

"You know, the Republicans USED to be the party of personal responsibility. Now you're the party of Big Brother or Big Daddy, peering into everyone's bedroom windows." "You've become control freaks".

I always harp on the "personal responsibility" thingy. Gets them sputtering like crazy.

[farmbo]

47. Self-righteous, censorious, and hypicritical...a typical GOP voter.

They have learned to compartmentalize their so-called moral values: abortion for a rape victim is evil, but torture and the slaughter of innocents in a war premised on lies is perfectly acceptable.

You need to stop him in mid-sentence and call him out on these faux "moral" issues. Disrupt his comfortable-cocoon world where mindless platitudes prevail.

You will probably NOT sway him...most of them use "morality" as a smokescreen when what they really like are those fat tax breaks that re-distribute wealth into their hands.

But you will actually gain his respect, and he may be willing to entertain nuanced policy positions in the future.

[FreedomAngel82]

48. You should remind him

of the law and how there's freedom and liberty for ALL. As in the pledge says "Liberty and justice for ALL." Not just Christian white men/woman but for us all. And also in the Constiution it states that the government isn't aloud to promote one religion over the other. Remind him of all the good that happened in the economy and enviornment and the peace we had in Clinton's years and compare it to Bush. Maybe then he'd at least think about it some.

[GOPBasher]

53. That's what we're up against.

At this point, I don't even care. I can't stand complete stupidity. Let this moron lose his job and house.

[inslee08]

54. To be fair,

this is exactly what we (DUers) think about the GOP! They're for "evil" things like homophobia and war and corruption and too many other things to list.

[bunkerbuster1]

55. Well, yes and no. They are influential; but numbers-wise...

We are up against guys like that turd you work for. They wield a lot of clout. They seem like "winners" and they are extremely ostentatious in their housing (McMansions), rides (hummer H2s), and surgical enhancements for their trophy wives.

With them, there's no point in talking about social issues like the ones he graciously brought up. Truth is, plenty of republicans are pro-choice, and some are holding their noses and playing along as the gay marriage wedge issue is being driven. But forget that for the moment.

You need to think like a consumer advocate. Think about how people are getting ripped off. How decent WORKING people (not welfare cheats) are getting screwed. How it benefits an employer like him to have an educated workforce that isn't draining the system by getting thrown in jail and becoming a ward of the state for life.

If the culture wars shit comes up, just say "Ahnold. Rudy. They're with the Dems on those issues" and that'll shut him up quick, because talk radio is FILLED to bursting with talk of how those are their prime Preznit candidates.

You gotta talk moolah with these guys. It's the only thing they understand. Ok, that and "security," but presumably you can handle yourself there.

<on edit>

Forgot to add the "no" part. Those guys do not represent a lot of swing voters. They do have influence, but remember (Karl Rove certainly does) the Republican margins are usually quite small, and we just need to get people who CAN be got to.

Some folks are just writeoffs. Your boss is probably one of them, but you do need to appear informed and confident in your beliefs, and I'd suggest you stick to financial stuff when politics comes up.

[Skidmore]

56. An observation about what the Republicans have

successfully done. They have simplified the concerns of a complex society into simplistic binary concepts compatible with concrete thinking. By reducing all issues to black and white (for 'em or agin 'em type thinking) and associating them with an emotional tag, the message is easier for people to internalize. Nothing is required beyond acceptance. Thinking through the gray and trying to determine what level of control you can exercise over world and life events is no longer essential. Group think will carry you through. Thus the labels of "right" and "wrong" or "good" or "evil" become ways of ordering the world which does not demand anything from you as an individual beyond emoting. It is a lot harder for him to reconcile the lies and inconsistencies of *'s regime than it is to simply adopt and apply the groupthink label of "evil" to anything he fears or does not understand. When something is "evil", the solution is that you simply destroy it. It is a perverse way of controlling a universe in which you feel out of control.

[leesa]

57. He's really whacked! Way too much Kool-Aid for that fool!

[LinuxInsurgent]

58. you did the smart thing...

first, because he's gone already...only life persuasion will make him reconsider his positions....he's gone to the brainwashed Christian Taliban hordes..

and second...he's your boss...don't give him a reason to not like you...it could cause your "layoff" one day.

My policy: keep politics out of my employment. I used to display my ethnic national flag on my car, and speak publicly in my job...but someone broke my car side window (my car was the only one that had the flag marking...so...I suspect that's why it was)...and I lost my job for speaking out.

I will no confine my speaking out to online...and to MASS rallies...I got to live, you know...