When Churchill wrote that the Germans were hated by the

[EC]

world because they knew and were complacent to what was going on and that now we are doing the same, by being complacent about the deaths in Iraq from 91 and the sanctions. Are the Republicans starting to scream and trying to get him fired because he's hit a nerve. Does anyone think that might be guilt coming to the surface on the part of the ones screaming the loudest, or are they just dumb and don't get the gist of his paper?

[ltgod]

1. Churchill

Are you actually siding with this guy who said 9/11 victims were the equivalant to the Nazi, Adolph Eichman?

[Maraya1969]

2. He is talking about how the Repubs scream that we are doing the right

thing while we are killing thousands of innocent people in an illegal war. I don't think he is talking about 9/11/


Original Poster - you might want to re-write the first sentence. It is a little confusing.

[Stand and Fight]

5. I completely agree with you there...

Americans are refusing to acknowledge the very real possibility that we don't have any damn moral high ground to stand on -- especially the so-called "compassionate conservative chickenhawks."

[applegrove]

9. Exactly - but Bush and co invent 'reality' and have the sheeple

Exactly - but Bush and co invent 'reality' and have the sheeple that they actually invented "Democracy" and "Freedom" in the year 2003. And that nobody else - especially the UN - had been bringing these ideas out before. And their followers are stupid enough to follow it.

Myth building is an intricate part of fascism.

Replacing one set of assumptions with another is also important in controlling the heard.

[EC]

3. Easy to see you haven't read it....n/t

[Stand and Fight]

4. Amazing, isn't it?

So, few seem to really truly read anymore... I do agree that with you that even though the poster is asking a question, had they carefully read your post they would see the crux of your statement.

[Esra Star]

14. First Post

I can't believe it. I have finally seen a first post.
What am I up now? 13 I think.
I mostly just read and be amused.
Anyway welcome to the madhouse.

[newyawker99]

29. Hi Esra Star!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[EFerrari]

18. He didn't say that. That's the spin. Have you read the paper? nt

[newyawker99]

28. Hi Itgod!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Stand and Fight]

6. I don't think agree with Professor Churchill's view...

that the Germans were "hated" per se by the world; however, I do strongly feel that this is the very sentiment the world now holds toward America. It is as if we have gone and lost our collective fucking minds -- it's interesting to see people attempt to explain away the torture and war crimes of the Iraqi annexation and the unlawful detainment of people in Gitmo. The number of people who have given in to their fears in the interest of their "safety" is even more startling because they've yet to realize that the real enemy is within the very walls of their crumbling citadel...

[kaho]

8. Crapola.

..."the very sentiment the world now holds towards America"?

Don't be misled buddy.

Self hatred may rule your corner of the universe, but don't let the cheese slide completely off your cracker.

The real enemy as you say is not your conservative opponents. And if you really believe that it is, you betray the great ideals of most of your countrymen.

[neweurope]

11. Hm. I'm part of the world and believe me you are hated over here.

The poster's statement has nothing whatsoever to do with "self hatred" but with a correct sense for reality.

The great ideals of your country (which for the outside world have always been an illusion) have been betrayed by the Bushistas and by everybody blindly following them. Oh yes, the enemy is within.


------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[kaho]

13. What illusion is that?

[neweurope]

17. If you still think that your country's been the core of freedom

and democracy, humane and always wanting the good of all, a very beacon for mankind - dream on.

--------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Karenina]

23. I do not find Professor Churchill's analogy

offensive (when one reads his comment IN CONTEXT) or incorrect.
It's a bitter pill for Amis to swallow...

[T Town Jake]

34. And Germany has?...

...surely you jest...

[Phoebe_in_Sydney]

22. My country's your alleged ally

.. because we have a right wing suck-up as Prime Minister, but believe me, many Aussies seem to have adopted the attitude that Americans are so stupid they deserve an idiot for a President. And they've got one. A lot of them find it amusing.

I think the situation's a little more dangerous than that. I don't subscribe to the general Australian feeling that we're so far from the rest of the world that we can afford to sit back and be apathetic if bemused spectators.

But trust me. bush isn't liked here. A lot of people don't care that much, but I've never met anyone who thinks he's doing a good job.

And all the constant talk of freedom on the march, flag waving, bringing liberty to the world etc, is regarded as just a lot the kind of hype Americans love to indulge themselves with ... while torturing, imprisoning and bullying anyone who gets in the way.

I was watching my workmates as the SuperBowl pre-match stuff was being shown on our TV screens at work and everyone was just shaking their heads with a "Omigod, look at the bullshit they carry on with."

I often try to tell friends how many Americans feel trapped by the way their country's going, but the general perception seems to be that you guys all lap it up and you've got whatever's coming to you.

[kaho]

25. ...overblown Aussie hyperbole...

ignores the fact that Howard has a significant mandate from Australian voters, as does Bush and as will Blair.

Perhaps you should ask around a little more.

And your last paragraph is despicable.

And I'm from your part of town, not theirs.

[Pooka Fey]

33. Re: I try to tell my friends many Americans feel trapped - THANKS !!

Thanks for sticking up for those of us who are horrified and doing what we can. :toast:

[tkmorris]

12. I would be very interested

in knowing who you believe the "real enemy" is. I would somewhat agree that Conservatism as a whole is not our enemy. But who is?

You know, you can often tell a lot more about a man by examining who his enemies are than by examing his friends.

[kaho]

15. Who is/are our enemies?

...this question is the guts for a whole separate post.

[tkmorris]

21. I shall await it breathlessly (nt)

[kaho]

26. ...still breathless?

[LynnTheDem]

19. Ummm...not bothered reading any of the stack of world polls lately huh?

America is the #1 most hated nation on the planet right now, thanks to bush.

[Metrix]

7. I'm starting to think the essay was just ammuntion

It came on the heels of Caplis and Silverman being inflamed over the Columbus Day protest legal proceeding where Churchill was a defendant. They have done more than anyone else to stir this thing up. I think it's only a part of Caplis' right-wing agenda.

http://www.coloradoaim.org/blog/2005/01/report-about-khow-show-last-friday.html

Silverman was beat for Denver D.A. and is politically dead, but I think Caplis has higher ambitions and bears watching. He is something of a geek with no sense of timing or proportion, so hopefully he will trip himself up.

[applegrove]

10. Personally I am really upset that this Churchill has stole the meme

Personally I am really upset that this Churchill has stole the meme that accompanies the other Churchill's good name. Let us call this new guy Ward.

[kaho]

16. So am I...

..I came to this post thinking of a debate re Winston S., not so cloth brained academic...

[applegrove]

20. Exactly. Maybe we can start a motion to change his name to Ward

Exactly. Maybe we can start a motion to change his name to Ward!:shrug:

[Stand and Fight]

24. Kick...

Because me thinks there be scabies on the brains of some posters!

[Tinoire]

27. He's on C-Span NOW - U of C talk to students. A+. Lots of clapping n/t

[American Tragedy]

30. Well, that is a hell of a generalization

I'm an American, and nobody who knows me would say that I've been fucking "complacent". There happens to be a limit to the power of private citizens.

This isn't a movie, with a carefully devised happy ending and an inherent justice affixed to all participants. Sometimes evil triumphs, at least temporarily. That doesn't mean that nobody tried to stop it.

[erpowers]

31. Maybe Something Bigger

Criticism of Ward Churchill by Republicans may be something bigger than them feeling guilt. I do not think most of them feel that guilty about what happened the the Iraqis. I think for most of them this is another chance to say that all liberal and Democrats are unpartiotic and hate America.

[kaho]

32. ...very Astute observation that they don't feel guilty...

...I mean a dictator's been replaced. Elections have been held.

Why on earth should they feel "guilty" about those two facts?

[Disturbed]

35. Sometimes I wonder if some of the posters here are

Democrats. It feels like some are Fascists.

Ward Churchill is correct in his thesis. It has been stated before by others but they have not been attacked. I believe it is the "little Eichmans" phrase that has upset many. It is unfortunate that his main thesis has been buried beneath the phrase he used. What he said that he meant has been lost. He meant that the technocrats of the financial instituions in the towers were complicit in the oppresion of the general population of the ME. Just as Eichman was not himself personaly killing Jews he and his staff facilitated the slaughter. American policy in the Me caused the attack of 911 not because "they hate us for our freedoms" but because they hate the U.S. Govt.; the past Govts. as well as present because of their support for the oppression of the general population of the ME via the support of oppressive ME Dictatorships and Israel's policy towards the Palastinians.

Of course, none will hear the truth of his statement of the Corp. Media or papers.