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chieftain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:46 PM
Original message
How ironic is it that the party which tries to discredit evolution
is the party of Social Darwinism ?
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Very astute observation.
And I think there is a song in that.
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. I hadn't noticed that.
It's easy to believe in economic Darwinism when you're winning.
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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. I've been thinking the same thing!
They believe in survival of the fittest, but only in the political and financial realms. And they don't seem to see the disconnect between saying the strong should prevail (and pass their strength on to their offspring), and saying that Darwinian evolution doesn't happen. I don't get it. :shrug:
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Anakin Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. CONservatives are a bunch of double-standard nitpickers.
They conveniently apply or "believe in" certain scientific theories ONLY when it suits their purposes.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. It's like when they use the Bible
They claim to be Christians and followers of Christ but yet they ignore a lot of his teachings as in helping the poor, taking care of the ederly and children, loving neighbors, hate the sin LOVE the sinner, etc. They only talk about homosexuality and abortion but forget everything else. :eyes:
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. You could make a 1,000-page book...
out all of their contradictory stances. They are so two-faced. Have I mentioned how much I hate these people?
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ArchTeryx Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. Religion masks Social Darwinism.
Actually, there is a way to bridge the cognitive divide. Calvinism and Puritanism.

It's a pretty complex topic but what it boils down to is that rich are seen as divinely blessed and the poor seen as being punished for their sins. Mix that with a healthy dose of Calvanistic predestination, and you see how one can be a creationist and still believe in Social Darwinism. The fittest survive because, quite bluntly, that is God's plan to His chosen few.
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chieftain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. That's a nice piece of analysis .
I am Catholic and never spent much time understanding the various differences among Protestant sects . But I have had an extremely difficult time in understanding the " Christian " rationale for cutting taxes and the social programs which they support . Are the beliefs that you referenced contributory to the embrace by the " Christian Coalition " of destroying the social safety net or are Ralph Reed , Jerry Falwell et. al. supporting this without any doctrinal basis ?
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ArchTeryx Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I believe so.
Alot of the right-wing evangelical Christians have ALOT in common with Puritanism and Calvinism, though they never make that sort of statement publicly. The church that my mother used to go to in Kankakee, IL...Olivet Nazerine...is a classic example. It's mostly middle class as the base 'flock' but it's staffed with the wealthy professionals of the area. They openly pitched for Bush during the election and spend as much time praising his free-market reforms and the glory of social Darwinism as they do praising God.

www.theocracywatch.org is a very good start but doesn't really explore the nature of Calvinism and Puritanism specifically. Most of what you will find on Calvinism doesn't really explain how this influences modern theocratic Christians. Puritanism, especially as regards to economics and the use of sex as a Great Distracter, is a closer parallel, and IMHO influences them more.

Some columnists have digested this far better then I could, but I'm drawing a blank as to links to give. :/
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chieftain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Thanks , this is helpful and
it adresses a topic that I have wondered about for a long time .
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. It Boils Down To Materialism. Science Masks Biological Darwinism
Edited on Sat Feb-12-05 10:08 AM by cryingshame
or rather, Establishment Science and its underlying Philosophy of Materialism.

Fundy Science insists that its Philosophy of Materialism be accepted despite any lack of real evidence to back up the claim that the Material World is all there is and that Consciousness proceeds from inert matter.

Is the Universe at its base dumb, inert matter or is it comprised of Consciousness?

Establishment Science will not allow any mention of the flaws in the version of Evolution posited by Darwinism.

By the way, Darwin's theory was DIRECTLY BASED ON THE SOCIAL 'DARWINISM' OF HIS AGE.

Kind of pathetic how desperately so many Liberals cling to an outdated, flawed model of Evolution... one that's based on the very Philosophy of Materialism they profess to abhor.
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GreenPoet64 Donating Member (897 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think you are correct! n/t
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. It is not Social Darwinism, rather Utopian Capitalism the GOP preaches.
Do not confuse the two.
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chieftain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Well since I obviously have , enlighten me , please .
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Sweet Jesus, all right already.
Ideology is defined as a political belief-system that both explains the world as it currently is and suggests how it should be changed. While many take people to task from being “ideological”, this only masks the pervasiveness in which our social views are influenced by our own political ideology. Generally speaking, there are three dominant political ideologies in US politics today. These are Liberalism/Identity Politics, Market Populism and Reaganism. The first is mostly confined to the Democratic Party, while Market Populism and Reaganism are present in both, with the latter far more prominent in the Republican Party. All three are utopian political ideologies in that they each offer a plan for progress towards some distant far off goal. These ideologies described are also “ideal types” in that one may not find any one person who believes all elements of any one type. In reality, there is a good bit of crossover. In addition, it is the party ideologists, those intellectuals who define what the goals of the party are and the programs by means of the world-view provided by the ideology that they promote and develop.

Reaganism is best seen as an ideological/quasi-religious worldview.

While Reaganism has deep roots in American history it has only recently emerged in any coherent form and is today the dominant political movement in the US. While the Republican Party is the home of Reaganism, not all Republicans are Reaganists. While the Democratic Party offers the main opposition to Reaganism, it is influenced by it and some Democrats can even be labeled as Reaganists. While there are various traits and tendencies to Reaganism, I think we can say that Ronald Reagan provided a focal point to the movement along with some of its ideological direction. His years on the road as a spokesman for the National Association of Manufacturers obviously influenced his views. That Reagan provided the name and some of the direction of the movement is more historically bound than based on anything he actually did or accomplished. Reagan was the right man for the moment, the figurehead or prop the movement needed, the icon. The Iran-Contra scandal on the other hand provided the movement’s baptism, combining the survival of Reagan’s presidency with Anti-Communism and partisan defense and tolerance of clearly unconstitutional activities.

The Republicans who blindly followed Oliver North and his associates willingly crossed the line to radical and unquestioning support of their leader, thus providing Reaganism with its virulent character it still has to this day.

Six basic tenants or core beliefs of Reaganism, the elements that form the Reaganist worldview can be developed. One should keep in mind that we are talking here about a mass movement involving millions of people. While each and every Reaganist may not wholeheartedly support each of the following tenants, most will find them appealing.

The definition of a worldview does not so much define the individual as it defines a collective perspective.

1. America is the chosen nation, the light of the world, the city on the hill. Our system of government enjoys lasting legitimacy since our Founding Fathers were inspired in a Biblical sense. As Jerry Falwell says, “God promoted America to a greatness no other nation has ever enjoyed because her heritage is one of a republic governed by laws predicated on the Bible.” Therefore, if you complain or question the fairness of the US judicial system or the opening up of natural resources for economic exploitation for example you are the same as a heretic who falsely questions religious dogma. The Reaganist sees himself as the keeper of special knowledge, a Gnostic belief that he alone understands the true place of the country in history. Since the goals of America are above question, any means used to achieve these goals are allowed. Also due to this mystical/religious connection even those officials, who are elected, yet are unclean, dishonest, and immoral (such as the Reaganist view of Clinton) are to be expelled using whatever means necessary. Consider too Tom Delay wearing a
miniature copy of the US Constitution around his neck, the legal document reduced to a totem.

2. Capitalism is the chosen system of America since as Falwell says, “God is in favor of freedom, property ownership, competition, diligence, work, and acquisition. All this is taught in the Word of God in both the Old and New Testaments.” So with the end of the Cold War we have an America not only victorious and vindicated in an economic and political sense, but in a spiritual sense as well. That Americans are so successful and enjoy such luxury is based on this spiritual legitimacy we enjoy more than anything else. All means of “cashing in” are accepted with the exception of drug dealing that is permitted if the cause is just (The Contra and Afghan freedom-fighter drug dealing to fight Communism enjoyed the support of Reaganist administrations).

3. Thus carrying number 2 to its logical conclusion, government regulation (read as the followers of the evil FDR attempting to subvert Capitalism, a divine plan) is to be thwarted using any means available. Laws that help in this subversion of our Founding Fathers’ original intent are to be disregarded and stricken from the books. Notice how distrust of liberal government programs fits here so nicely, along with a Supreme Court or some Federal judge out of control (those pesky Carter/Clinton appointees). Capitalism, which provides us so many blessings will gain us true progress (utopia) if we allow it to proceed untrammeled. The best way to do this is by letting the chosen ones the best Capitalists) proceed without any obstacle since their success shows divine approval and will allow us to more quickly reach our ultimate (and unavoidable) goal. Where government can come in is in furthering US economic interests like corporate welfare, bailing out big business from bad decisions or economic strong-arm tactics and/or espionage against foreign governments/competitors. Notice here how privilege starts to equate with morality, the rich and well connected as the good. A return to pre-Christian master morality of which the best example is the current Reaganist occupant.

4. Considering the first three we conclude that this very special place called America must be protected at all costs against any potential enemy. Defense spending takes on a life of its own with any weapons system, which offers us even the slightest advantage, deemed as necessary and worth the expense.

The military itself takes on a mystical aura and receives unquestioned support. Failure to provide enough funding or support for the military is one of the mortal sins of Reaganism. The Federal government has after all few real responsibilities, providing for the common defense is one of them. The ability to return to our pre-Sputnik isolation and safety is worth whatever the cost (Missile Shield). In the same line, our so-called allies (actually dead beats and moochers) cannot be trusted since they lack the spiritual/political/economic legitimacy that we enjoy, not to mention that they are deeply jealous of our success.

5. Those who do not succeed in the US Capitalist system (the poor and other losers) have only themselves to blame since in the US system anyone no matter what their background, ethnic group, race, sex or disability can succeed (very broad definition of success) by hard work, diligence and following the rules. No one needs any special help since this only breeds laziness and dependency. People should not feel any connection to the Federal government in any socio-economic matter since this is Communism, which is the opposite of Americanism from a Reaganist perspective. In the same vain, drug addicts, alcoholics, even obese people have only their own weak moral constitution to blame for their problems. They justly deserve their fate.

6. Crime is the work of bad people. It has a bad smell to it, the smell of degeneracy, pot smoke and the ghetto. Only losers and moral degenerates commit crimes and thus are deserving of the harshest punishment, since only by employing the harshest measures will they realize their errors and turn their lives around. Notice here that almost any pursuit of money in the corporate arena, in the marketplace is morally acceptable, it is the low-class crimes, the violent acts against persons or property that constitute real crime, not “white-collar” offences against government oversight (which is illegitimate in any case).

This about this covers the six basic tenants. We can put an awful lot of what they do under these and it also explains the smug self-righteousness that they exhibit.

Based on these tenants we can make the following observations:

A) Reaganism is plagued by an extreme confusion of values since it has mixed up Christian (and Old Testament Jewish) values with Consumerist/Capitalist values to the extent that it can no longer recognize a difference. The problem here is that these two value systems are in reality contradictory and mutually exclusive which means that the former gets talked about continuously in effect providing the pretty wrapping for the latter which actually guides their actions. This confusion has been so long in coming about and is reinforced by their attitudes in so many ways that they are totally blind to it. It also explains the blatant opportunism so common among Reaganists who go about “cashing in” any way they can with a clear conscience.

In short, the Market has become their god, they need no other. Christianity provides the traditional backdrop or prop, but is discounted in any real way, in reality more a type of marketing a form of window dressing.

B) Since this belief system rests very much on faith alone, any objective facts, which contradict it, are rejected in a very morally uncompromising way. Unflattering historical episodes are explained away as brief lapses, characterized as the necessary means to a noble goal or are ignored altogether since they fail to “fit the pattern” or are the result of “liberal/leftist slant.”

Much of what is said against Reaganism is dismissed as disinformation trying to subvert the country and its noble foundations. In all Reaganism is an unhistorical, anti-intellectual, anti-scientific, undemocratic, oligarchic movement, which has always been able to provide an alternative view (which they pay well for) to reject any heretical outburst against it.

C) Since the Reaganist observes that most of those organizing themselves against him or committing various crimes belongs to various minority or interest groups any prejudices originally present against those groups are reinforced and in the course of defending his view against their attack become virtues by this process to the Reaganist. Thus, his original small mindedness is promoted, given legitimacy. There is no need for him to change his views, to be objective, since he already enjoys the Truth; no amount of argument is going to change that.

D) So what is the difference between a Reaganist and a Conservative? In spite of some outward similarities, Reaganism has in effect gutted traditional American Conservativism. It is hard today to find an actual Conservative in the traditional sense. Conservatives used to distrust credit for example, trusting in money in the bank. Savings were considered a mark of temperance and pride. Mindless quests for goods or luxuries were frowned on, considered a mark of avarice. Conservatives did not just pay lip service to self-discipline, company loyalty, setting time aside for family and community, government service without self- aggrandizement, or even promoting a stoic life style but considered these ideals. Try to image a traditional Conservative supporting legalized gambling for example. . . It is impossible. There is little of this tendency left today, rather only the close-minded intolerance of Conservativism remains, but this is hardly its essence, rather only a bare hide. In effect, we are left today with this hide and the label “Conservative” which has lost all traditional meaning.


E) As this mass, unconscious tendency develops further those Judeo-Christian traits that were positive to society will weaken even more. Notice that in spite of all the talk of spirituality, morals and “family values” we become more and more an unfeeling, atomized, spiritually dead society, which defines success in purely materialistic terms. The Reaganists are not alone in guilt for the triumph of Consumerism in America, but they have been shameless in their opportunistic exploitation of it. With their opportunistic use of important labels and symbols, they have also weakened the meaningfulness of those labels/symbols.

Cynicism is the result.

F) Even before the Selection of Bush the Reaganists had shown continuously that they would sacrifice any of their basic principles in order to achieve some tactical or strategic gain. There seems to be no intellectual conscience or brake to the most cynical opportunism (in this way they most resemble the Russian Bolsheviks under Lenin). These moves made by the movers and shakers of the Republican Party/Bush Administration/Rehnquist Court do not go unnoticed and continuously undermine the credibility/legitimacy of the movement. This combined with E above could lead to a sudden drop in Reaganist support among the mass of their followers. Already we see a split developing between the Busheviks (that is those Reaganists who are “cashing in” as the result of Bush’s policies) and the great mass of
Reaganists (the middle and lower-middle classes) who are economically losing ground.

Conclusions:

If Reaganism is ever to be vanquished it first has to be identified for what it is. It will have to be separated from the labels, such as Conservative and Republican (or Democrat) that it hides behind and confronted openly. We have here an intolerant, undemocratic ideology that masquerades as something it is not.

Perhaps it is time that we Americans started to evaluate our leaders and political movements by their actions, not by the pretty words and noble goals that they give mouth service to.

That we perhaps remember that we are the ultimate sovereigns of this country and that in the words of the old saying, that we deserve the government that we get.
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chieftain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Thanks , I am not at all certain
that you cleared up my confusion over the terms Social Darwinism and Utopian Capitalism , which is where you and I started this magical mystery tour . Nevertheless , that was a magnificent post and one that I have saved to reread since it gives insight to so much that is happening .
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chieftain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. It may be what they preach , but economic class war is what
they practice and that is as aggressive a form of Social Darwinism that there is . The research I have done while waiting for your response suggests that fairness is the key to CU and that hardly is the hallmark of these crooks . CU believes that when one company lays people off another company loses customers . This group of thugs refused to extend unemployment benefits to laid off workers , thereby depriving the economy of support .
The emphasis on accountability is mere window dressing for what W and his ilk have believed since they were kids : If you are poor its your fault and there is no obligation to extend a helping hand .In other words survival of the fittest i.e. Social Darwinism
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TrollhunterX Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. It's worse than that, Jim...
Edited on Fri Feb-11-05 11:19 PM by TrollhunterX
The religious right who theoret(crat?)ically believe in doing unto others as they would be done by, don't have to take a long term view on protecting the poor from the threat of climate change, as God will sort it all out anyway, in a few years. Which is a great comfort to us atheists...
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. Social Darwinism is their REAL religion, after all.
Edited on Fri Feb-11-05 11:23 PM by Raksha
They prove that over and over again. It may be the only aspect of Darwinism they accept, but they believe in "survival of the fittest" with perfect total faith. They only give lip service to their official state religion of Christianity.
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Obviousman Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
19. very interesting
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
20. Actually, The Notion That We're Nothing But An Array Of Atoms And
Edited on Sat Feb-12-05 10:00 AM by cryingshame
molecules and that the Physical World is all there is- in a word "Materialism"- is just as much a part of Darwinism.

Materialism is as much a part of both Darwinism and the Establishment version of Science as it is in Corporatism.

And MANY MANY people here on DU rabidly defend the Materialism that lies at the heart of Establishment Science.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yes, indeed. nt
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