FURTHER PROOF: Bush immigration policy will split GOP

[mockingbich]

FREE REPUBLIC purges conservatives who speak against Bush Illegal Alien Amnesty

The shot heard around the Internet has been fired on FreeRepublic.com The owner Jim Robinson and his moderators have launched a sniper style purge against members that disagree with the President’s ‘guest worker’ amnesty or support more control of illegal immigration...

Full article: http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=206

Free Republic thread supporting the censorship (these guys sound like nazis) It's frightening how they defend their Fuhrer
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1341266/posts

[mockingbich]

1. Bush's achilles heel

It's time for a law and order democrat to support enforcing our border and immigration laws. IT will split the GOP in half

Do you think Dean understands this??? He better real quick

[fob]

4. For sake of disscussion won't that split the dems too? So the question

becomes what happens with the four pieces?

Bloc 1 bush* supporters For Guest Worker

Bloc 2 bush* supporters Against Guest Worker

Bloc 3 Dems For Guest Worker

Bloc 4 Dems Against Guest Worker

What are the relative sizes of the pieces?

Could Blocs 2 and 4 unite and outsize Blocs 1 and 3 who may agree on the single issue but would never go beyond that?

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT fully informed on the issue, so this is a cursory glance and quick question. I agree with the law and order part of enforcing our laws but I also know that sometimes laws clash with human rights so there's not an absolute to either tact.

[sandnsea]

7. Dems aren't for guest worker at all

None that I know of. Dems are for earned citizenship for illegals that are here, especially those with family here. And an immigration process that is much more targeted to real labor need and always preferential to immigrants that want to become citizens. Stricter on businesses that hire illegals too. NO guest workers.

[mockingbich]

8. Excellent questions - NO it won't split the Dems

Here's why...

The guest worker plan is a total fraud and only deals with the 10s of millions of aliens already here. NOT border enforcement. Bush has no intention of ever enforcing immigration law. It would piss off his open borders corporate free trade lobby. There is no plan to stop the next 10 million illegals from coming here.

This is why it is Bush's problem and not the democrats.

The dems only have to be for enforcing immigration law. It doesn't matter where they stand on guest worker programs. They need to come out tough on enforcing current immigration laws so we never have this problem again.

Look at the 2006 elections. This will be a hot issue for congressional seats and local elections. GOP incumbents will be extremely vulnerable if they side with the president.

[fob]

17. OK, so Dems can universally oppose Guest Worker (added bonus

that in initial form it's GW!!) and not catch any heat for deporting illegals? Can this be tied to the licensing of illegals that are here already? If security of the country and her citizens were a true bush*co goal, doesn't it make sense for illegals to get "licenses" from the state rather than on the black market? I mean if I have to give up my fingerprints to get a state license, wouldn't it give those that are left that may want to terrorize and therefore must stay out of the state's eye, that much more trouble when/if they do get confronted and are NOT in the system?

[Spinzonner]

2. Well the administration is really becoming a cult of personality

[mockingbich]

3. "Cult of personality" - so true

That's why it's important to hit Bush with the illegal immigration problem.

The entire party is identified with Bush. Who else can you name that is a prominent conservative?? None

Hit Bush hard with this - destroy the GOP - they won't recover for 20 years

[Clark2008]

5. lyrics for the 80s challenged

Look in my eyes, what do you see?
the Cult of Personality
I know your anger, I know your dreams
I've been everything you wanna be
I'm the Cult of Personality
Like Mussolini and Kennedy
I'm the Cult of Personality
the Cult of Personality
the Cult of Personality
Neon lights, Nobel Prize
When a mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set me free
I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your T.V.
I'm the Cult of Personality
I exploit you; still you love me
I tell you one and one makes three
I'm the Cult of Personality
Like Joseph Stalin and Gandhi
I'm the Cult of Personality
the Cult of Personality
the Cult of Personality
Neon lights, Nobel Prize
When a leader speaks, that leader dies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set you free
You gave me fortune, you gave me fame
You me power in your God's name
I'm every person you need to be
I'm, the, Cult, of, Per, Son, Al, Ity
I am the Cult of Personality

[sandnsea]

6. public benefits for illegals?

Are you serious? These people are actually supporting that????

Oh somebody go over and get some posts. I can't go there, makes my blood boil.

[Disturbed]

9. Open borders corporate free trade

The Bush Junata are not conservatives. They are Fascists. They are anti-labor anti Worker. They want to abolish unions and all worker's rights. They want to destroy the American Middle Class. The Dem Party better get back to being the people's champions and call for an end to all NAFTA and WTO globalization that oppresses the Working Class.

[mockingbich]

12. Disturbed is exactly right

The Bush Junta has found a way to play on our sympathies and compassions for illegal immigrants. Meanwhile, they are systematically dismantling the AMerican middle class..

We have to stop listening to the compassionate rhetoric and start looking at the hard facts of what is being done to dismantle the last 100 years of union and workers rights

[slor]

10. Krugman was on some show this week...

saying he was enjoying this showdown between big business and right-wing bigots, regarding this issue.

[mockingbich]

11. Krugman shouldn't laugh at the GOP - the joke is on Progressives

The anti-union and anti-worker corporate GOP is trumping us on this. WHile Krugman laughs at the right wing bigots who oppose Bush he might as well laugh at himself for falling into their trap.

The free traitors have figured out a way of calling you a bigot for protecting American workers. And we, the progressive pro-worker left, seem to be falling for it at the moment.

Bush is literally creating a lawless and permenent underclass that will work for slave wages. I live in Vegas, you absolutely cannot get a job in the hotel service industry, construction, or entry level jobs like fast food because of this deluge of illegal aliens. 10 years ago Vegas was a middle class workers paradise. Everybody was in the union or gainfully employed in the services industry. Now its turing into a third world hellhole. There is only the super-rich and a permanent poor underclass literally building shantytowns below the shadow of the glitzy Las Vegas strip.

The illegal aliens are slowly bankrupting our social services. There is simply no way to provide for people who aren't earning enough to pay for their own programs. EVENTUALLY, the american middle class will be bled dry and the corporations will have an army of underclass in their pocket. THe rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer

Krugman shouldn't laugh at the GOP - the joke is on him

[BlueManDude]

13. I'm dying for a "tough on illegals" Democrat

If Kerry had differentiated dimself on immigration from Bush he would have won the election. A "tuff on illegals" Democrat would be a hard man to beat. Bush loves illegal immigration because it provides cheap labor for his corporate cronies and drves wages down for everyone else. It's also a security issue re: terrorism. It's not about being a racist - it's about maintaining decent standard of living. Michael Lind, a reformed RWer wrote a book call "made in Texas" and he writes at length about the GOP's modern day plantation mentality that stifles ingenuity and drives wages FOR ALL down.

[autorank]

20. Tough on illegals is like voting rights, a fundamental issue.

If you don't enforce your border laws, you can't call yourself a nation. Borders are the fundamental element of national integrity. All we do with the porous borders is subsidize cheap labor and give Mexico a safety valve to prevent real reform or revolution.

Get it straight, you enforce those laws that exist. If you want different policy, you change the law.

[Strelnikov_]

19. Deal With Illegal Immigration By Addressing Demand, Not Supply

Like the drug war should be pursued. The minute there is any discussion of tightening up immigration, a civil war revolving around accusations of racism breaks out, nothing gets done, and the Iron Heel (GOP Corporatists) laugh all the way to the bank.

As you described, all the current immigration policy of this country does is create a black market for labor, exploiting those who are here illegally, and driving down the wages and working conditions for legal residents. Uncontrolled immigrant labor fills a void that it perpetuates, low wages that make the jobs undesirable due to an oversupply of labor, the classic supply/demand relationship.

What we need a guest worker program to stop the exploitation of immigrants and end the flooding of the labor market due to uncontrolled immigration. Penalties for hiring undocumented workers would be severe. Foreign nationals in this country without proper documentation would be quickly returned to their home country.

Hiring of guest workers by businesses would be coordinated through workforce development (unemployment) offices. These offices would maintain a set of procedures/surveys to verify a shortage of labor in a classification before guest workers could be hired. A wage rates system would have to be maintained to prevent low wages from being used as way to create a labor shortage.

All labor laws, including minimum wage rates and social security payments, would be enforced for guest workers. After participation in the program over time, the guest worker would be eligible for a retirement SS annuity based on what they paid in.

Some thoughts on immigration policy from John Sayles which sums up my feelings on this issue.

John Sayles
From:A People's Democratic Platform
http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20040802&s=forum

"The Democratic platform should call for an end to the hypocrisy of our immigration policy. Our current policy, an enormously expensive cat-and-mouse game, most notably on our southern border, calls on the INS to enforce immigration laws that are openly expected to be ignored by countless US industries and private employers. Some sort of regulated guest-worker program is needed.

Once it is in place, if immigrants continue to enter the country illegally and can't find work, word will filter back and the numbers will decrease dramatically. While in our country, however, those guest workers need to be protected from exploitation--to be assured they will be paid for their work, that their working conditions will meet state and federal safety standards and that they will receive no less than the federally mandated minimum wage (which needs to be raised).

Employers would be required to withhold some percentage (perhaps the equivalent of federal taxes and Social Security) from wages to help defray the costs of the program. Penalties for hiring foreign workers outside of the program would be high enough (and sufficiently enforced) to end the black market in labor that is thriving now.

Protecting all workers in this country is an important first step toward the amendment or abolition of NAFTA and the protection of workers throughout the world."

[PROGRESSIVE1]

14. "Free"Republic is ONLY a mouth piece for George Bush.

FR will NOT tolerate ANY dissent againt him as he is their Furher!

[SoCalifer]

15. My Team!!

I believe that too many people harbor the "My Team!" no matter what mentality, especially the repukes, and will never vote for the other side.

IMO its the same as the person who harbors a racist mentality, they will never be able to bring themselves to join, in friendship, those who they hate.

And since I believe that the vast majority of repukes harbor this My Team mentality, I don't have much confidence that something like this would split their vote..

I wish more of them would come to their senses, but I am not counting on it.

[Senator Lamb]

16. it is a split in the GOP

racist xenophobes vs. allies of big business & cheap labor.

cant we as dems come up with a strong immigration policy that can appeal to the average joe who doesnt like illegals and also fight against the abuse of cheap labor and instead have fair policies?

[foo_bar]

21. I think you're on to something

Dems would rule if they became the "America Firsters" in contrast to the cheap immigrant labor party of corporations. Exploiting this fault line ("the economy, stupid", plus unspoken nationalism, plus "not in my backyard", plus the Ross Perot demographic) would separate the GOP from their hegemony in border states, namely NM/AZ/TX/SoCal.

[Dark]

18. "Free Republic is an amazing tool for those looking for a good debate"

WHAT THE FUCK?!

[Bake]

22. RimJob!

I swear, and I have to laugh every single time I see it, if my name were Jim Robinson, I would fucking CHANGE it just to avoid having it parodized as anything resembling RimJob!!!

Gotta laugh yet again!! RimJob is such a fucking TOOL!!

Bake