So, can we call it civil war yet?

[PurityOfEssence]

Aw, come on. Shiites are getting hit right and left. The final announcement of the "election" results is being put off and off. It's a mess, and there are plenty of incidents yet to come, whether we hear all of them or not.

Tick tick tick.

Meanwhile, we blunder on with the destabilizing of Syria and Iran and muck around who knows where else.

Anyone care to predict?

[Kerrytravelers]

1. When I read the posting on the main page, I thought you were talking

about the US.

My answer would have been yes.

[babsbunny]

21. ME TOO!

I am estranged from my oldest Son because of this President! If this can happen to a Mom and her Son, yes, we can have a Civil War right here at home!

[A-Schwarzenegger]

2. I see a light at the end of the

[GoCubsGo05]

3. I hope you are not hoping for that to happen.

It would be terrrible for Iraq and for the region as a whole.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

5. Surely you aren't serious asking that question, are you??

[GoCubsGo05]

8. I am serious...

...only because of the way your post is presented. Forgive me, I am new here. I am not familiar with when some people are serious or not serious...joking or not joking...hoping for things to go wrong...not hoping for things to go wrong. I know many people who hope something goes qwrong in Iraq so they can use it as further evidence to hate a guy they already hate. (Bush). So forgive me if I somehow insulted you, but I am just curious.

And please quit calling me Shirley! ;p

[Laura PourMeADrink]

10. sarcasm. no - no one wants it to go badly. Just bring them home now -

and bring them home alive. Why do you know "many people who hope something goes wrong"?

[GoCubsGo05]

12. Perhaps many is a bit of an exageration...

...but some. I know them because I have known them as friends for my whole life. Some of them really want us to fail over there, a view I don't support. But they want us to fail because they think that's the only way we'll get out of there and they believe it will be the downfall of Bush and the GOP. IN other words, they want us to fail for political reasons. Again, not a view I support.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

13. Well, I would give it, IMO, about a 90 % chance of failing, so why

not get out now. That is what Kucinich said during the debates. If there is no good that will come out of this next year, or the year after, or the year after -- why not stop it now.

Trust me on this, though. There is nothing altruistic about the whole thing - since he lied from the beginning. Therefore, its garbage in garbage out. If B** really cared about those Iraqis, he would have done everything humanly possible to resolve the matter of getting rid of Saddam peacefully. Last time I looked 16,000+ est. Iraqis have been killed. If B** carried about people, he'd be in Rwanda or the Congo where millions are dying.

[infusionman]

17. King George is not gonna get out now...

He's going to use Iraq as a staging area for Iran, Syria...

Then one day he will use DC or New York as a staging area for taking over the country.

[buzzard]

25. I have seen references to over 100, 000 Iraqis dead. n/t

[RafterMan]

19. Actually

someone ran a poll here on DU recently and 2/3rds preferred that Iraq descend into chaos than Bush be credited with a successful policy.

So that hardly qualifies as "no one". At least not here.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

22. well 2/3 of the poll is not 2/3 of DU nor does everyone take a poll

here like a legal commitment, but your point is taken-- I shouldn't have spoken for everyone.

[leveymg]

15. Just feel that ball come across the plate and swing, Don't think about

it. That's how the game's played.

Welcome to DU, GocubsGo05. you support lost causes, so you must be a genuine Democrat.

;-) :D :+ O8) :hippie: :toast:

Take me out to the ballgame . . .

[GoCubsGo05]

18. And a genuine Cubs fan. (Speaking of lost causes!)

[leveymg]

23. You hit that one! n/t

[PurityOfEssence]

24. I don't WANT that to happen, I'm just a lil' ol' fan of reality

Reality is always our friend, regardless of the immediate pain. Embracing what is actually happening is the first step to correcting the dynamic or adjusting to it as a fait accompli.

Yes, in my heart, I don't want hugs and kisses and a smooth transition to a stable government that can be controlled and dominated by this administration and its allies in mineral extraction and further world dominance.

To the heart and soul of your question, I don't think a "real" representative government with fairness and enlightenment is the least bit possible. If it were possible, I'd be all for it. I'd be thrilled and reassured about humanity.

Holding the lid on horrible situations is much more horrible than letting it boil over somewhat. Letting it go completely is even worse.

The longer lies are buttressed as truth when obviously false, the more people give up on their government and society. The most dangerous thing facing the left in this country today is the cynicism and checking-out by those who can't abide the obvious misrepresentation of reality. Trust in a willingness to embrace reality is necessary in a pluralist society.

'Nuff said?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

4. I figured they were holding off the results so the US could rig it

somehow. Hey, but when the other side doesn't vote, that's pretty hard to do, huh. That would be piece of cake to pull off, I can envision now. "oh, we'll take care of those election ballot boxes -- you need to go out there and kills some insurgents"

[leveymg]

6. I'll give it a year before the bunker busters hit Bashere.

We've etablished the seeds of democracy in Iraq - I mean the future states of Shi'a W. Iran, S. Kurdistan and the Autonomous Republic of Sunni Central Iraq. Mission accomplished.

Which will be first to buy F-16s? NATO enlargement, anyone? They'll never get their oil production back up to where it was - add $1.50 to the base world price of crude. Permanently. Mission accomplished.

[noamnety]

7. I've been asking that for awhile

We handed over the government to them. We got a signed note from Condi saying they are sovereign.

So if there is fighting going on in Iraq, both sides are the Iraqis, though one has enlisted our support.

If it's not a civil war, what's the distinction?

[Chipper Chat]

9. Any chance that Condibush will declare Allawi the winner by a nose?

Do they have the balls & piano keys to attempt a crazy thing like this? Would Fox, Rush, Novak, and Blackwell stand behind them?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

11. good one ! that's why we need to have a 30+% lead next time

You can not rig an election unless it's relatively close.

[Al-CIAda]

14. Allawi wins 50.8% and declares himself as having a 'mandate'.

He immediately privatizes everything (or what is left),
Monsanto cracks down on farmers while the oil is sucked dry.


On to Iran but maybe Venezuala!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

16. Oh shit, Exits Wrong Again !!

[jjtss]

20. If G. Brish goes into....

Iran and/or Syria, he will be making a collossal mistake. He can't field enough army to hold Iraq, and his recruiting efforts are not making minimum quotas. He has spent all his manpower capital.

"You can lose a battle as long as you win the war "(I forgot)