How do Mississippi and Alabama have Democratic State Legislatures?

[Hippo_Tron]

These two states seem to solidly have Dem. state legislatures but seem to be have an impossible time getting Democrats elected Governor or Senator, not to mention they are two of the most red states in the country presidentially. Are all of the Dem legislators DINOs?

BTW, I guess the same question could apply to a state like Michigan. Fairly solid blue on the national/statewide level, both legislative chambers are GOP.

[DaveinMD]

1. these are relics of the past

these are remnants of the old dixiecrats.

[Hippo_Tron]

2. So basically, a majority of the dems sitting there are Zell Miller dems...

In that they endorse Republican candidates and what not?

[inslee08]

4. Not as bad as Zell,

but probably more conservative than Olympia Snowe or most northern Repubs.

[mark414]

3. as far as MS and AL go...

both are pretty poor states, and the democrats are better at speaking to social issues...but for some reason on a national level they vote republican, usually over moral issues...at least that's what i've heard, i don't know i live in wisconsin (with 2 blue senators, a dem governor, has gone blue for years, and has a GOP controlled senate and assembly)

[kris10ep]

24. You're correct about the moral issues part

As a liberal trapped in red Mississippi, I see it everyday.

A lot of the people here don't even know who they are voting for. They vote that way because their preacher told them it was the "Godly" choice.

I am currently in graduate school at Mississippi College - a Christian university. I did not choose it for that reason, but most students (all the undergrads) did. It's ironic that the very things they are against in terms of integrity are the very things those they vote for possess.

[paineinthearse]

5. Are all of the Dem legislators DINOs

I'm guessing a more appropriate term would be "Dixiecrat", please correct me if wrong.

[DaveinMD]

6. the African American legislators

would be the exception to the Dixiecrats.

[GOPBasher]

7. I assume they're socially conservative dixiecrats. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

16. So are Dixiecrats populsit or pro-business?

I guess that's my bigger question.

[GOPBasher]

22. I don't know much about that. What I think is

that the dixiecrats conform to the Dem tradition of economic liberalism/populism, but are very conservative on social issues. I could very well be wrong.

[R3dD0g]

8. Southern Dems are holdovers from the

FDR era. The south was a shambles during the Depression. There are a bunch of my daddy was a Dem, and his daddy before him.

They're also a reflection of the fact that Lincoln was a Republican and they're holding that against the local Repukes.

They're mostly very conservative big business boosters. You wouldn't confuse a southern Dem for a northern Repuke.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

9. The reason is selfishness

They vote for Republicans for president because they want to make sure that people around the country don't benefit from their taxes, but they vote for Dems locally so that their taxes are used for their own benefit.

[QC]

21. Wow! You sure do know a lot about Alabama politics!

How much time have you spent there?

[Blue_State_Elitist]

28. Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not.

I've lived in CA my whole life. Just taking an educated guess.

[GreenInNC]

10. NC also

Governor, Lt. Gov, AG and both houses of Leg. are Dem.

[Hippo_Tron]

15. Right but the fact that NC can elect a Dem GOV and Lt. GOV...

As well as a Democratic Senator (on occasion), makes it a different situation. In Mississippi and Alabama it seems like it's almost impossible for a Demcrat to get elected Governor or Senator.

[QC]

29. The most recent past governors in both states are Democrats.

Ronnie Musgrove in Mississippi and Don Siegelman in Alabama.

The last Alabama election was very close--Siegelman lost in a situation similar to Florida 2000. When we went to bed he was the winner and when we awoke we learned that an "error" had been "corrected" in Baldwin County, handing the election to Bob Riley. Interestingly enough, Riley turned out to be a pretty decent governor, for a Republican, meaning that his party hates him now.

Roy Moore is talking about running a primary challenge against him, and that promises to be a bloodbath, because the state GOP leadership doesn't like Moore very much, given what an uncomfortable position his grandstanding over the 10 Commandments put them in, but they don't like Riley much, either, since he tried to raise their taxes. So there's no telling how that one will come out. In either case, Lucy Baxley, the lieutenant governor, is expected to run on our side, and she's reasonably popular, while Moore and Riley are both pretty polarizing figures, so we might get a surprise there.

As for senate elections, it's been a while since Mississippi sent a Democrat. In Alabama, Jeff Sessions's immediate predecessor, Howell Heflin, was a Democrat and a good one--he had the good sense to vote against Clarence Thomas, for example. I don't know of any strong prospects for defeating either of them in the near term.

[ISUGRADIA]

11. Southern change to the GOP seems to go from the top down

president in the 60s, 70s; Senate seats, Governors, US House...the lower statewide offices and state leg seem the last to go if you look at the pattern in other states

[Freddie Stubbs]

12. They are conservative Democrats

The Democrats in those states are conservative, and the higher up the ladder they get (Governor, Senator) the harder it is for Democratic canidates to avoid being associated with the more liberal stances of the national party.

[IronLionZion]

13. Excellent question

good for you for asking the right questions.

Like some others here have said, those Dems are Dems for reasons like unions, social security, health care, education, and so on. Tennessee even has a state health care program. But these Dems are often more conservative when it comes to guns, God, gays, and abortion. And that is fine by me. These folks may disagree with you on some issues, but they tend to be good people.

The Republicans who hijack "moral issues" and then screw the people are the bad guys. Don't confuse the two.

[Hippo_Tron]

14. Mississippi and Alabama are pretty regressive states, though

I understand the concept that these people might be old populist on economic issues conservative on social issues Democrats, but Alabama and Mississippi have horrible school systems, healthcare, etc. Maybe this is the case in Tennessee, but Tennessee also has a Dem Governor, went to Clinton both times (and would've gone to Gore if his campaign hadn't been so bad), and is much less hostile to the national party than Mississippi and Alabama. I also understand that many of them are leftover Dixiecrats, but were Dixiecrats populist or pro-business?

I guess my bigger question is, are these Democrats in the Mississippi and Alabama state legislative chambers populist Democrats (as you claim) or pro-business Democrats (as others here claim)?

[quaoar]

18. Part of the reason

Is that Alabama and Mississippi have substantial black populations -- almost a third in Mississippi, about 25 percent in Alabama.

Another reason is that many of the Democratic state legislators have been in office forever, so they have been hard for Republicans to pick off.

Mississippi and Alabama also have had Democratic governor quite recently. Ronnie Musgrave in Mississippi and Don Siegelman in Alabama. Our lieutenat governor in Alabama is Lucy Baxley, a Democrat.

Are they populists or pro-business? They're both actually -- they speak the language of populism but they mostly vote pro-business.

[leyton]

17. Could be gerrymandering.

Someone mentioned NC above as also having Democratic legislatures; while this is true, I think this is maintained more through gerrymandering than through anything else.

[JI7]

19. Dixiecrats

this is why there are a certain percentage of Democrats that vote Republican in Presidential races and why we should not assume party registration itself means they are on our side.

in these conservative states it's often a race between conservative in the Dem and Rep party. they remain registered Democratic to vote in primaries in local and state races. but when it comes to national presidential elections they have voted republican regularly for a while now.

they are probably even more conservative than people like arlen specter,george pataki of new york and some other republicans.

i'm sure the average Republican in Michigan probably leans left to some of these Dems in Alabama.

[QC]

20. Those of you who want to purge impure Democrats from the party

should take heart--looks like Karl Rove is about to do the job for you:

Emboldened by a U.S. Supreme Court victory for their Georgia brethren, Alabama Republicans announced Saturday that they will soon file a federal lawsuit in Mobile challenging the district lines of the state Legislature.

Party Vice Chairman Jerry Lathan of Theodore explained the suit to members of the Alabama Republican Executive Committee as a key in the GOP's effort to win control of the Democratic-controlled Legislature in 2006. ...

The suit will assert that existing lines pack Republican voters into fewer districts, while creating sparsely populated districts that favor Democrats. The alleged pattern, Republicans argue, dilutes GOP voters' influence in the Legislature and violates the principle of "one man, one vote."...

Also among the next moves, Lathan said in an interview after the GOP gathering, is a meeting with Karl Rove, top political adviser to President Bush. Rove has consulted on Alabama campaigns before, most notably as the architect of Republicans' landmarks victories in several Supreme Court races in 1994. Rove also approved a direct-mail piece for the House District 65 race.

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/redir.php?jid=1ce80a187b31ef2f&cat=dc5bac5ce154af20

Of course, this will make it even more difficult to elect a governor in Alabama, and we can expect the brand new legislature to gerrymander our two remaining Dem reps out of office, but that's a small price to pay for a more pristine, if powerless, Democratic Party.

[Bridget Burke]

23. As a Floridian, you actually know something about Southern Democrats...

Unlike the "experts" on this thread--from Pennsylvania, California or the ever-popular "blank"....

[QC]

30. Native of 'Bama, lived in Miss. for 7 years, now in Florida.

And you're right--isn't it interesting how the habitual bashers leave their profiles blank about 90% of the time?

[DaveinMD]

27. partisan gerrymandering

is approved by the Supremes. If the court struck down this law, it help Dems elsewhere.

[dsc]

25. Another thing

Due to the fact that felons can not vote in MS or AL there are many black adults who can't vote but are counted when districts are drawn. Thus many black districts in those states have fewer voters while having the same population. For the legislature that doesn't matter much (since most of the district is black, the Democrat wins but with fewer votes) but for the governor and other statewide office it matters alot. When I lived in Mississippi the city councils of Greenville, Indianola, and Greenwood were majority black but the mayors were white. Lower turnout in black districts was the culprit.

[iamthebandfanman]

26. well i think its a combo

its a combo of the past and present.

people still recognise the democratic party as the fighter for the poor or under-priveledged , and rightfully so. i just think alot of people are ablivious to all our so called 'extreme liberal' ideas.

i really dont think it has anything to do with racism anymore, they are very aware of what party played a big role in the civil rights movement.

then again, sometimes people are just used to pushing a certain button ;)

[Sgent]

31. Its a mixture

First, I live in Mississippi, and grew up here.

The D's here are populist. That being said, they won't turn down a big sop to Nissan who wants to build a plant here. They are also not pro-union (more of a neutral). One of the most influential members of the legislature, Tommy Franks (D), is a trial lawyer who has made millions -- he is from an area which has consistantly voted republican for national elections since Reagan. His good friend, chairman of the HHS committee, is a funeral home director from one of the most R areas of the state.

As for the Senate and House seats, they don't vote for the national party due to guns, abortion, and (more recently) gays. In addition, once elected, a Senator or House member has no re-election worriers ever. It is one way for a small state to improve their influence on a national level. Jamie Whitten (1-st District MS), served for over 50 years, from the age of 21 until he died one year out of office at 79. Roger Wicker (R), his replacement, was elected in 1994. He garnered over 80% of the vote in this last election. Stennis served in the Senate forever. Cochran and Lott will be re-elected as long as they seek office.

Govenor is an interesting issue here. Barber is our second R govenor since reconstruction. Since Jack Reed (R) ran in the 80's, the governer's race has been very close regardless of who won. It can definately be won by a Dem, but not a gun control, pro-gay rights Dem. Pro-choice is ok if they don't talk about it.

Rant over, ask me questions and I will try to answer.

[QC]

32. Good post!

I hope some people will take you up on your offer to answer questions--this could be an interesting thread.