Kerry doesn't have what it takes to win

[rumguy]

Kerry won't play well in the general election. He will be Gored, and big time. He will not "wear well" - as everyone seems to be saying about Dean now.

But at least Dean has a passion that encompasses more than just being President.

In my opinion, Kerry feels he is "owed" the presidency.

Where's his passion? Where is his conviction? To me it all rings hollow.

On top of that, HE IS BORING...true that's just my opinion, but I find him uninspiring...

[sangha]

1. I am very susceptible to fact-free arguments

so please, do go on

[rumguy]

4. I come from the American West and the Mid-West

I know what plays there and what doesn't...

[sangha]

8. Don't stop now

You're on a roll

[Jacobin]

64. You are correct.

The south, southwest and midwest will reject him.

It's Gore, round two.

Gun control and all.

[Lorien]

109. Feels more like Bob Dole to me

You've hit on one of my primary concerns about Kerry (the "no Elvis" factor). Sadly, most Americans just vote for who they deem "likable" rather than the issues. Bush* is only popular because he's a "plain spoken guy that would be nice to have a beer with" (in other words: a drunken idiot). Will voters see Kerry as a Man of the people, as someone they identify with-or will he come off as a wealthy, ivy league,career politician? (never mind that Bush* is a Connecticut blue blood himself). Where's the Mojo? Where's the passion? Where's the all important charisma?

[Iverson]

77. haw haw haw!

... part of this complete breakfast!
:thumbsup:

[Guaranteed]

89. Hey, people are stupid enough to fall for the "Dean is crazy" bit. nt

[Guaranteed]

90. Dupe nt

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Paragon]

3. Yep

The ultimate standard is how a candidate will look against Bush.

I'm afraid John will put them to sleep at a debate before the first question is asked.

[THUNDER HANDS]

10. you know who else was dull

Jimmy Carter
George H.W. Bush
Al Gore

All three won national elections.

[JVS]

83. Your list is a weak illustration of the point you are trying to make

Carter won in 1976, but lost terribly in 1980. He was helped by anger towards ford for pardoning Nixon.

Bush I won in 1988, but lost terribly in 1992. He was helped by being the succesor of a popular president (god only knows why reagan was popular)

Gore's victory is highly arguable since he is not currently in the White House. I assume that you would not like Kerry to have the same type of win as Gore (i.e one which ends with Bush II in office).

[sangha]

14. Possibly, but they sure wake up when it's time to vote!

Sleeping, alert, passionate, bored, ...none of it makes difference. Votes are what counts, and Kerry has proved he can get them.

[liberalnurse]

15. Yep! It's going to be another 4 years of *bush.

Kerry is not very smart, just sneaky....I think if he went to Hogwarts School he would belong to Slithering.

He could never beat Al Gore......and Gore beat *bush essentially but not in reality. Its a loose-loose candidate.

[childslibrarian]

5. He was my senator for many years

and unfortunately, he seems incapable of giving a straight answer to anything, in a moderate amount of time. I was an early supporter WHO GAVE MONEY. He really angered me when he was unable to stand up for himself on his "regime change" remarks or on his stance on the Iraq War. I am sorry. I was willing to give him and chance and I gave up waiting for him to get a backbone....

[rumguy]

11. exactly, what is he afraid of?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

6. Kerry deserves it, just like Bob Dole deserved it

Prince Kerry wants to be king, or if not, he wants to at least make a go of it. He'll be Doled.

[poskonig]

7. If Dean cannot turn out the grassroots in a liberal primary,

then there really is no argument for him.

I dislike being that direct, but that is the brutal reality of the matter.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

12. Nice Avatar Switch

I respect your decision.

DTH

[shance]

34. How do you know he didnt Poskonig?

Plenty of room for deals made in the Iowa caucus....its ripe for influence.

I think Dean and Dean supporters may have gotten a taste of how unfair and biased politics can be.

I would wager Dean can trump any of the other candidates ten times over,

but first you have to have a fair election.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

42. "Fair" Election?

The rules of the Iowa caucuses were public information and experienced politicians and campaign managers knew exactly how they have worked for ages.

This was a fair election. If Dean's caucus chairs were too inexperienced to try to woo people, or if Dean himself was so divisive that no other candidates' supporters wanted to even consider him, whose fault is that?

"Fair" election. Please.

DTH

[Julien Sorel]

35. LOL

Nothing more need be said.

[dreissig]

43. The Brutal Reality

The brutal reality is that the Iowa process is screwed up. I'm calling the outcome a speeding pine tree in the sense of a defective radar gun that clocks the scenery at 35 mph.

And here's another piece of brutal reality for you: the number of Democrats who will refuse to vote for Kerry is indeterminate at this time. Some historical events are more important than politics - the Vietnam war was one of them. In 1968, Humphrey wrote off the anti-war Left as a captive constituency. Kerry's doing that now. It turned out that we weren't locked in, and we did not vote for Humphrey. Want to avoid another 1968? Don't nominate Kerry.

[Southsideirish]

9. It takes more than a red tie.

I am truly stymied in figuring out his appeal. His image is very cold, his droning speaking style is irritating and boring and his use of his military resume (the patriotic parts) and family members is very off-putting - not to mention his not too subtle attacks on Dean's family in Iowa on Sunday night.

[freetempe]

13. Kerry wont beat Bush

Lets list the "memes" that will be thrown around if Kerry gets the nomination:

-Kerry has no passion, he is a robot. (A complete 180 from the current "Dean is too angry, too passionate" meme being trotted around by DLCers and mediawhores)

-Kerry is a New England, tax and spend, latte drinking, liberal elitist

-Kerry will take your guns away (based on his previous remarks on gun control)

-Kerry is too aloof, not personal enough. He just doesn't "connect" to avereage Americans

Not to mention the fact that anti-Iraq voters won't be voting for him. Seriously, how will Kerry attack Bush for invading Iraq when Kerry voted to give Bush authority????

Not to mention the Dean voters, so angry by being submarined, who won't be coming to the polls or will be voting Green or writing in Dean's name.

Kerry is BAD news for REAL Democrats.

[bigtree]

24. Either you will sit and wish for these things to be proven true

or you will eventually work to defeat this slander if he gets the nomination.

Good luck to your candidate. ABB!

[freetempe]

73. Thanks, but I'll sit

If Kerry gets the nomination. After what OUR OWN PEOPLE did to Dean, working hand in hand with the whore media, I don't care if it happens to Kerry. In fact, when it does happen. I'll be there to say I told you so and that WE DESERVE IT.

[mikehiggins]

80. Whoa, Nellie!

The voters spoke in Iowa the same way they do everywhere else. They didn't buy into Dean's story, anymore than they bought into Gephardts.

That is the nature of a free people voting freely. It isn't as though Howard didn't have ample opportunities to make his case to the Iowa voters. Him and his campaign spent months on the ground working to get a good lead in Iowa. It didn't work.

Even so it worked better than Gephardt's campaign did and Dick has been around a lot longer than Dean. He was the boy next door.

Resenting the fact that your candidate has been rejected is normal, I guess, but I never blamed the voters when a candidate I worked for lost (and lots of them did). They were doing their job; my guy just didn't make the sale.

Ditto Iowa.

[polpilot]

85. Dean ran against the repubs and the dem establishment. Go to the DLC

site and state WHY Dean should continue to attempt to become a part of the democratic leadership in the U.S. They don't WANT him or HIS IDEAS. He needs to move on as we did over 200 years ago when the futility of reach-across-the-aisle with King George became clearly the wrong place to be.

Dean...Third Party...Just Say it.

[zulchzulu]

86. That's just great

Perhaps you should join another party.

[kerryistheanswer]

16. "Kerry feels he is "owed" the presidency"????

Obviously you haven't been paying attention to Iowa. Did you see the miracle he pulled off there? That was by talking to voters and campaigning non-stop - more than ANY other candidate.

I was in Iowa and his relentless fight and belief in himself and this country was truly inspiring.

So what if he won't make the Late Night jokes like some of the other candidates? I'd rather have an honest, thoughtful president that one that is exciting.

[rumguy]

17. I saw most of the speeches...what I heard from Kerry sounded "canned"

I heard about his legendary debates with Weld. But what I've seen so far has been to my ear, not very impressive.

[kerryistheanswer]

21. Well - there has yet to be a REAL debate in this primary

Watch Kerry in a real debate vs. Dean, Clark, or Edwards prior to Feb. 3rd and you'll change your mind.

The Weld-Kerry debates are on audio archive on PBS's site. Check it out when you get a chance.

Peace.

[leyton]

45. I want a better debate.

No offense to Sharpton, Kucinich, or Lieberman supporters. But I want a debate between those who have a good shot at the nomination - Edwards, Kerry, Clark, and Dean. I want four guys on a stage that was once crowded with nine. I want them all answering questions and better yet asking them of each other. And I want it to be polite, civil, presidential. I want the most acrimony to be "I respectfully disagree" because few can argue and still seem presidential.

And while I'm dreaming, if we could just get Bush to stand in between them, so he could be pummeled four times over.

[shance]

32. Gimme a break...yes, I tend to think that most DC establishment think

they are owed something. I like Kerry, but its the epitome of an insider. He may be a great guy, but show me what he has done THESE PAST THREE YEARS to prove he has any right to sit in the White House.

I know one that does....Governor Howard Dean.

[creativelcro]

76. Then you should vote for Dean

[Feanorcurufinwe]

18. The people of Iowa seem to disagree with you.

[oasis]

19. Kerry's steady and sober style will be a welcome contrast to cowboy Chimp.

The people of America are yearning for real leadership from a real statesman.

[displacedtexan]

23. You said it!

The world is watching... and hoping for a president with some dignity.

[dansolo]

84. These words will not win over anyone

Especially those of us who still remember Bush's theme of "honor and integrity".

[dreissig]

27. A Steady and Sober Warmonger

Calling Kerry steady and sober is another way to say he's boring. But Kerry doesn't have the virtues implied in that characterization - he's not reliable. When hundreds of thousands of us were out in the streets protesting the war, "steady" and "sober" Kerry voted for it.

[bigtree]

36. He voted for the president to go back to the U.N.

No Democrat in the Senate, save Zell Miller, voted to "go to war".

The IWR did not authorize or mandate the rush to war. It did however, cause inspectors to be readmitted to Iraq with its implied threat of force. That team, headed up by Hans Blix, affirmed that Saddam posed no immediate threat. We use the information that Blix obtained at that time to bolster our anti-war arguments.

Bush disregarded the intent of the IWR and pushed forward with unilateral, preemptive invasion and occupation. None of which was encouraged in the legislation.

[dreissig]

57. Long Winded and Dishonest

Who are you trying to convince with this long winded explanation of Kerry's motives? The hundreds of thousands of us who were out in the bitter cold streets protesting the war looked to John Kerry to oppose the war. Instead, he voted for it.

I remember how angry and insulted we were. Because I live in New York, I'm more familiar to the reaction to Hillary's vote. We were totally outraged. She'll never live it down.

What is the size of the anti-war Left? Does anyone know? If the Democrats write us off as they did in 1968, the party may come up short in November, as it did in 1968. Want to avoid a repeat of that bitter experience? Don't nominate John Kerry.

[bigtree]

70. It's one thing to disagree with me, but to accuse me of dishonesty?

I was in the streets. Several times. I gave away t-shirts that said 'Support Our Returning Soldiers' with a peace sign on the back, unsolicited I supplied water and food during one march. I gave away rain ponchos at another.

I believe my arguments and I trust that you believe yours. I have no stomach for a debate with anyone here who has the temerity to call me a liar. Good luck with that.

[dreissig]

94. Dishonest Arguments, Dishonest People?

I didn't say that you personally are dishonest. I meant only that you've used an argument out of the Kerry camp that upon analysis can be seen as dishonest.

It's an interesting point whether honest people can innocently use arguments that aren't dishonest on their face. Take, for example, the argument that the world is better off without Saddam Hussein. There's a certain appeal to this argument, but when used to justify the invasion, it's dishonest. When Bush uses it, it's an outright lie.

No, I don't think you're dishonest. You sincerely believe something out of the Kerry camp which, if Kerry himself had used the same argument, would make him dishonest.

Of course, if you want to take offense by proxy because I implied that Kerry is dishonest, that's fair and reasonable. Good luck with that.

[bigtree]

100. Can't think for myself?

These are my impressions of his vote based on his statements before and after. I followed the debate and the vote carefully. I have formulated my own opinions. You are really off in your suggestion that I am merely spouting Kerry talking points. I have better things to do than shill for Kerry. I happen to believe my argument. There is nothing dishonest about it.

Careful of that sword. It cuts both ways.

[dreissig]

107. Kerry's Argument

Kerry's excuses for voting for the war are long-winded and dishonest. Your quoting them with approval doesn't make you a dishonest person, and perhaps it doesn't reflect on your political judgement. I'm bending over backwards to accommodate you here. You're not dishonest and your thought processes aren't necessarily defective. How much farther do I have to take this? Do you insist that I agree with you?

[oasis]

58. Bush failed to "exhaust every possible alternative to war". Not Kerry.

But, you knew that.

[dreissig]

65. No Escape There

You can't put it on Bush, we knew who he was and what he wanted. There was no surprise there. If Kerry blames Bush for deceiving him, he doesn't belong in the Senate, much less the White House.

Kerry has no excuse and there's no escape. If the Democrats go ahead and nominate him anyhow, there will be a huge defection of the anti-war Left, just as there was in 1968. Back then, Humphrey indulged himself in the fantasy that we were just a bunch of idealistic kids and that we'd return to the fold before the election. He was wrong about that, and so are the Kerry supporters today.

Don't want a re-run of 1968? Don't nominate Kerry.

[oasis]

71. "re-run of 1968" I doubt it. The Vietnam war was ongoing with no end

in sight. Kerry has a plan for getting us out of Iraq.

[JVS]

91. Didn't Nixon have a plan to get us out of Vietnam too?

Kerry's credibility as an anti-war candidate is very low.

[bigtree]

93. Now Kerry's Nixon

How low can you go in defense of your candidate? Who is your candidate, BTW?

[dreissig]

96. Kerry as Humphrey, Bush as Nixon

As I used the analogy, Kerry isn't Nixon, he's Humphrey. Humphrey wrote off the anti-war Left as a locked-in consitutency, because he never dreamed that the Left would allow Nixon to win. Late in the campaign, Humphrey tried to make amends to us by denouncing the war in Vietnam. It was too late because a large number of us (including myself) had decided that politics was an unwinnable game and we weren't part of it anymore.

To my knowledge there has not been a satisfactory history of the New Left. I'm not sure what the reason is . . . perhaps it's still too hot to handle. There have been narratives identifying the players and chronicling the events, but not communicating the geist of the times. (A great 60's word!)

However, the fact that the history of the 60's is still largely unrecorded does not make the lessons of that period unavailable. Trust me that we do not want to do 1968 over again. Don't nominate Kerry!

[JVS]

99. Kerry isn't Nixon damnit! But having a plan doesn't mean that it will...

work out that way.

Kerry's plan may just be fluff for the left in the primary season.

[bigtree]

103. The nominee of the Left may not win

Four years of animosity over the IWR vote if Sen. Kerry gets the nod will be wasted energy. Pragmatism in their words and actions will prevent stagnation and isolation of their agenda. Agree when you can, disagree when you must. Participate and the band together and see what can be accomplished. If the Left rails too hard against the Democratic party then they may become marginalized by their own obstinacies. Pres. Clinton was a moderate. But the Left had influence in his administration and a place at the table. Eight years. The Left had no national candidate who could win. But they didn't take their ball and go home. They fought, alongside Pres. Clinton and against him when they felt they had to. But they weren't shut out of debate. They had many voices in that White House.

John Kerry has proved himself to be a man of integrity and a caring individual. He has fought for Democratic values in the areas of the environment, health, civil rights, and international peace and justice. He has a clear record of standing up for Democratic principles in the Senate and in this campaign. The Left will find more than token representation in his White House if he succeeds. The Left will find John Kerry as he left the Senate: fully committed to a progressive agenda which respects the best interests and concerns of all of our society. I believe this. I draw my inspiration from his lifetime of service and his dedication to our party and its principles.

[oasis]

112. bigtree, that's telling it like it is. (eom)

[lastknowngood]

20. My opinion is Kerry is 48 state loser

Sorry but he's anti gun a northeast liberal and an uninspiring speaker no matter what you say unless you can say it with conviction you will not be believed. The shrub is a master to believing his own lies because he's to stupid to even know he's lying. Kerry will be painted as a elite left wing liberal millionaire with no connection to the "sheeple" it's so easy they don't even need kkkarl.

[bigtree]

28. If he happens to win the nomination . . .

these impressions will be discounted by our support and our defense. Sorry you feel so strongly against Sen. Kerry.

BTW some of my best friends are elite, left-wing liberals. Thank God for these people. Their opposition to Bush will be most appreciated in the upcoming election.

[Dimsdale]

47. Elite left wing millionaire...

as opposed to Bush (hallowed be thy name), a elite, extreme right wing millionaire connected only to those able to afford the price of admission. I'm so fucking tired of this same old shite. Chimpy can pass as a murdering, lying POS, but whoever the Dems nominate will be painted as tax and spend, unelectable....blah, blah, blah. And oh yeah. Smirk is a LEADER! Christ, enough already...

[poopyjr]

61. Who do you support?

Just wondering

[molly]

92. Who do you support?

[wyldwolf]

22. Are these "code words" in the Dean supporter camp?

I keep hearing from some of them that __________________ doesn't get "it" and that _________________ doesn't have "what it takes" to win like Dean does. :eyes:

But what I find most amusing is this: In my opinion, Kerry feels he is "owed" the presidency.

Sounds more like Howard Dean.

[lastknowngood]

26. interesting how you turn every post

to and anti Dean supporter slam.

[wyldwolf]

29. Since this was obviously a Kerry slam by a Dean supporter,

...we're just supposed to ignore that?

[rumguy]

31. actually I'm an Edwards man, but I won't stand on the sidelines

while a good man like Dean gets smeared...

Fuck that!

[wyldwolf]

41. so you combat it by smearing another good man?

[rumguy]

46. there's a monumental level of difference between DU and the whore media

The whore media is smearing Dean, all the while smirking, smiling, and high-fiving while they do it.

What did Dean do? He dared to show some real passion and emotion about his goal. They hate that worse than anything.

Fuck that corporate whore media mindset!

They are nothing but emotional prudes with stunted souls.

And you expect good Democrats to just accept that?

No god-damned fucking way!

[wyldwolf]

74. So the "whore media" has never published negatives on anyone else?

[dreissig]

25. He Can't Fake It

Kerry doesn't connect with people. It's a quality that a politician has to have, and he doesn't have it. People will be looking for reasons not to vote for him, just as they did with the similarly unappealing Al Gore.

If Kerry gets the nomination, it will be the second time running that the party has nominated a stiff. If Iowa is not an anomaly, there's something wrong with our nominating process. The late Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it simply, Gore can't win.

[bigtree]

30. He connected in Iowa

with all of the demographic groups. Give him a chance.

BTW, Gore won.

[dreissig]

33. Giving Kerry a Chance

Kerry's a United States senator. He's had lots of chances. His vote on IWR is unforgiveable.

Iowa is an anomaly. Dean's inexperienced people were outmaneuvered by the experienced professionals working for Kerry and Edwards. It's a limitation of the caucus process, and we'll find that out in New Hampshire.

Don't write off the anti-war Left. Humphrey did that in 1968, and didn't realize his mistake until it was too late to correct it. By the time Humphrey got religion, we'd already settled on alternatives. Want to avoid a repeat of 1968? Don't nominate John Kerry.

[David Dunham]

38. Cong. Guitierrez: "Dean's Candidacy Is Dead."

Congressman Luis Guitierrez yesterday threw his support to John Kerry and away from Dean, stating after Iowa "Dean's candidacy is dead."

[JaneQPublic]

52. Overheard on a plane

You got that from a conservative news source:

http://www.illinoisleader.com/news/newsview.asp?c=11521

Fox News reported today that U.S. Congressman Luis Gutierrez (D-4th) was overheard on a plane that he was planning to switch his endorsement from Democratic presidential candidate former Governor Howard Dean to U.S. Senator John Kerry, who won the Iowa presidential caucus on Monday.

============

Well, if it was overheard on a plane, and then reported by Fox News, it must be true!

[Andromeda]

115. Congressman who?

:P

[bigtree]

44. All of the rest who voted for the bill must be abhorent to you

But I won't blame them for the sins of Bush. Nothing they did caused Bush to act up. I'm certain that he would like cover for his arbitrary actions, but he won't find justification in the IWR, which counsels restraint and argues for the involvement of the international community before Bush would act.

That attitude, that Iowa was an anomaly, probably sunk Gov. Dean. We all know how he feels about caucuses.

The left abandoned Humphrey and got Nixon. Good luck with that.

[dreissig]

63. Punishing Humphrey

I don't remember any regrets about Humphrey's defeat. People hated Nixon, but there was never any second-guessing about what might have happened if we had swallowed our pride and voted for Humphrey.

Even knowing how odious the Nixon presidency turned out, nobody would have changed strategy. It didn't help Humphrey that Chicago cops beat the shit out of demonstrators, creating a clash of generations that added to our sense of alienation.

Don't want 1968 again? Don't nominate Kerry.

[bigtree]

67. Humphrey had the protesters beaten?

That's a new one. What a statement of your aims though.

"I don't remember any regrets about Humphrey's defeat."

"Even knowing how odious the Nixon presidency turned out"

You would stand by and let Nixon win over Humphrey. Good luck with that.

[dreissig]

97. No Regrets

In 1968 there was a clear difference between the terms "Leftist" and "liberal" which today are used interchangeably. Democrats today are about to make the same mistake Democrats made in 1968, i.e., assume that the Left is locked in. We weren't locked in then, and we're not locked in now.

I'm a moderate Leftist in the sense that I don't look for third party alternatives. I vote a straight line Democratic ticket with the exception of pro-war thugs like Hubert Humphrey and John Kerry. If Kerry is the nominee in November, I will vote for every Democrat on the ballot except him.

I don't regret the Left's role in Nixon's victory in 1968. The Democrats shouldn't have been surprised that Leftists would refuse to vote for Humphrey. Jerry Rubin and Abbie Hoffman, members of the Youth International Party, nominated a pig for president. The same establishment Democrats who nominated Humphrey also encouraged the Chicago cops to beat the shit out of antiwar demonstrators. When the election came around, Humphrey found he had no support on the Left. Well, DUH.

We won't necessarily see this again if mainstream Democrats do what's necessary to keep the already-restive Left from bolting the party. And here's a suggestion: Don't nominate Kerry.

[bigtree]

101. Hmm. If Humphrey had become president . . . how would he have . . .

dealt with the war?

A parody:

In his second and last attempt at the Presidency, Richard Nixon came closer in terms of Electoral Votes to winning than he did in 1960. Charges were brought of voter fraud in New Jersey, Missouri, and
Illinois by the Republicans. After publicly accusing the Democratic Party of conspiring to deny him the Presidency in both 1960 and 1968, public opinion of Nixon dropped and the Republican leadership began to distance themselves from Nixon. Legal action by Nixon lead to nothing and Hubert Humphrey was sworn in as President on January 20, 1969.

First Term

The Vietnam War-
By far the most important issue facing President Humphrey was the Vietnam War, which had been going on since 1959. By 1968 there were more than 500,000 US troops in Vietnam. Anti-war movements had developed at home, and demonstrations had became a daily occurrence, especially on university campuses. Standing for the 'Moral Majority,' the 60% of Americans opposed to the Vietnam War, President Humphrey began to pull out troops and attempt to bring the war to an end.

President Johnson had ended the bombing of North Vietnam, a policy that Humphrey continued. At the same time, US troops in Vietnam took a more defensive role. The urgings of Secretary of State Clark Clifford and Secretary of Defense Cyrus Vance prevented Humphrey from committing troops to an invasion of Cambodia and Laos.

Before the election, South Vietnam President Thieu had been persuaded by Nixon to stall peace negotiations until Nixon was President. This put President Thieu in a bad position when Humphrey became President, and South Vietnam was rarely consulted in the secret peace negotiations between Vance and North Vietnam.

In the fall of 1970 peace was worked out in Paris without input from South Vietnam. The United States would withdrawal all their troops, accept 10 North Vietnamese divisions in South Vietnam and recognize the legitimacy of the PRG. Thieu came out against the treaty, accusing the US of selling him out. In a US backed political coup, Thieu was forced out of power and Duong Van Minh, who had been one of those who helped overthrow Diem, replaced him. Early 1971 had all members of the Vietnam War sign the Treaty of Paris, ending the US involvement in the Vietnam War.


. . . What? It coulda happened.

http://spiritualist.alternatehistory.com/hhh01.html

[patricia92243]

37. The "establishment" assumed he would be #1. That tells me something is

wrong right there. He is uninteresting, and I know this is a mean thing to say - he is so homely that he is almost scary looking. This IS the age of television, and someone that looks like Lurch is not going to play well when it gets down to the real nitty-gritty.

And if anybody thinks Bush will not use Kerry's recent bout with cancer against him is living in la-la land.

I will vote Dem - no matter what - but Kerry will loose the Presidency for us - period.

[kerryistheanswer]

40. Well the establishment supports Dean and Clark now

Gore, Hawkin, Bradley, Rangel, CLinton -

sounds like the establishment to me....

[bigtree]

48. So you're judging him on his looks

and the fact that he is a cancer survivor.

I don't know that I would seek your support.

[arewethereyet]

39. Kerry is a great candidate but he's from "that" state

I think you all know where the right will take that. He's no John Kennedy either.

[bigtree]

51. Close, though.

[arewethereyet]

59. close, yes but JFK is my hero and I'm not alone

point is JFK had far more charisma and human appeal. Not unlike my boy Edwards but he's not a JFK either. But close...

[bigtree]

62. Was he your hero before he became president?

Was he your hero when he was a senator from Massachusets?

[arewethereyet]

66. not quite that old, picked him up as he began to campaign

and the rest is history.

So I guess technically yes, but not exactly.

[bigtree]

69. Kerry will be Kerry

If he is the nominee, then that will suffice. ABB.

[dreissig]

98. Kerry Can't Win

Kerry can't win without the Left. The strength of the Left is unreported in mainstream press, no suprise there. The Democrats foolishly interpret the silence of the Left as evidence that we're not here. We are.

Kerry is unacceptable among Leftists. Democrats, don't take chances on this questionable candidate. It will be 1968 all over again, and you don't want that.

[bigtree]

102. The Left is not a monolith

They will hate Bush more than they will dislike Sen. Kerry.

On most issues, Sen. Kerry supports the liberal position.

[Kat45]

49. I like Kerry, BUT I don't think he can win.

He's my senator and I think he could make a good president. His voting record is quite liberal. BUT, I don't think he can win the general election. He will be painted as a Massachusetts liberal, which is the kiss of death for many voters. He's viewed as a Washington insider. Even in Mass, where he consistently wins his elections, he doesn't 'excite' people. He just doesn't have that charisma to get people all jazzed about him.

And there are a lot of folks, even around here, who really can't stand him (for various reasons). I think something about him rubs people the wrong way, although I don't know what. He has an aloof, patrician air about him. Folks talk quite negatively about him marrying a rich woman. My father, a WWII veteran, hates him because he turned antiwar when he came back from Vietnam; I wouldn't be surprised if other vets my father's age feel the same way. If my pro-gun friend is any indication, those folks will not vote for him.

Don't flame me about this: I don't share the opinions I'm presenting here, I'm just telling you what I've seen and heard--and I'm on Kerry's home turf.

[bigtree]

56. He will make his case

If he is the nominee we will defend him against these slanders:

liberal

insider

doesn't 'excite' people

doesn't have charisma

can't stand him

rubs people the wrong way

aloof, patrician air about him

marrying a rich woman

turned antiwar when he came back from Vietnam

pro-gun friend will not vote for him.


:eyes:

[poopyjr]

50. YAY! Let's sit around and think up reasons why Kerry won't win!!

THAT'S THE SPIRIT


Hell, Bush doesn't even need Rove. He's got you people.

[Kat45]

53. I'm just mentioning some weaknesses in his candidacy

Forewarned is forearmed. I have nothing against the man--as I said, I'm happy to have him as my senator. But we have to be aware of these things in deciding who, out of many good candidates, will have the best chance of beating bush, because getting bush out is THE most important thing to be done. And if Kerry does end up getting the nomination, it helps to know what he will face so that we can fight against it.

[JaneQPublic]

54. LOL! Fellow Dem bashing wasn't a problem until...

The target moved from Dean's back to the back of a Washington Insider!

[paulk]

55. It would be nice

if the Kerry bashers on this thread could come up with some real policy based reasons for their dislike of John Kerry, rather than the playground name calling I've seen so far.

[rumguy]

60. Well in the policy realm what has Kerry offered different from anyone else

He's running on his 'Nam record and his being a Senator...

[Stuckinthebush]

68. Of course he does!

He is a master politician who will rally the base and get many disgruntled Republicans to vote for him.

Perhaps boring is what the country is yearning for right now.

[Old and In the Way]

72. John Kerry is the right man for the right time.

He showed leadership and courage when he took a very high profile anti-war position in the 70's. I credit John and the VVAW as the primary catalysts for bringing an end to our VietNam folly.

I take nothing away from any of our candidates, they all have excellent qualities to lead this country.

But I particularly think that John has the ability to hold our base and bring the undecideds/independents in voting out the unelected fraud. The Republicans want to make national security the issue to run Bush on....Kerry will be bulletproof with his credentials.

Smear his character and his record if you must, you won't see me taking down any of our candidates...real Democrats don't do that.

[creativelcro]

75. Heh, but he IS Gore, without the VP experience and pedestal...

[cryofan]

78. I haven't really chosen a firm candidate yet. However, I find kerry to be

....a excellent stump speaker and interviewer. A master, really. Not quite as good as Edwards in many circumstances (like the debates), or as good as Dean in some circumstances. But pretty damn good. And far far better than Bush. Kerry could easily beat Bush.

[adadem]

87. You're right n/t

[molly]

88. Kerry was debate champ at Yale

and you are correct - he can easily beat Bush! :toast:

[mikehiggins]

79. We OUGHT to give Kerry our votes

At least that seems to be his approach to things. Aloof is a word that comes to mind the most frequently.

I know he's just a warm, cuddly puppy in person with the people who really know him but on the road he is stiff and cool, if not cold. His voice approaches a monotone and he appears to stalk around the stage like some poorly controlled automaton.

Whenever I see him I get the impression that he is slumming, that he will deal with the masses every so often as his chosen field requires but that once that messy ordeal is done, everyone should just accept that he knows best what should be done. It is, in my opinion at least, the arrogance of wealth and privilege and, in the long run, it is the most obvious characteristic that will work against Kerry in the general election. Even his attempts to appear macho speaks to the insecurity he feels relating to the average citizen. Motorcycle up to the stage on Jay Leno?

Al Sharpton doing James Brown on SNL is one thing; John Kerry playing a regular guy is something entirely different. It's a role, he isn't comfortable playing it, and it shows around the edges.

He is a rich man from the Yankee northeast, and Teddy Kennedy's buddy. That doesn't even constitute a credential on DU and it will prove less valuable in November.

Cowboy Bob will shine in comparison, and Kerry on the debate stage will either have to show his superior intellect, which will turn off a lot of people, or act like one of the guys, which will be even worse.

Kerry would likely be a great President. In an election like this, he will be a lousy nominee.

[cryofan]

81. Yeah, Kerry really IS hitting all the grace notes of campaigning, aint he?

He is pulling out all stops, and he and his advisors are really MASTER campaigners: The motorcycle on Leno, the profanity, the toking gesture, the Nam vets reunion, the fatherly/authoritarian cadences, etc etc. And he is tall, but as they say in b-ball, you can't teach height, so I guess he was just fortunate there....

Whether I should vote for Kerry, or how good a president he would be, I am just not sure. Probably, he would be pretty good. Right now, I would go for Clark, because he promises to fund healthcare for vets, or for Edwards, because of his promise to make the tax code more progressive.

Kerry has not really given me the issues that would make him my first choice. And I am primarily an "issue" voter, not a "candidate" voter. But I would not feel uneasy if I have to vote for him. Can't say the same for Dean.....

[Meshuga]

82. We all have opinions

And I think Kerry will do just fine in the GE. Better than Dean at least...

[Cocoa]

95. He told Koppel where to stick his polls

he did the same to Anderson Cooper way back when, when Kerry was nowhere.

He shook up his campaign back in the fall, and when people asked him if he was out of it, he said "nonsense."

When whores try to dumb down the issues, Kerry very correctly tells them that the American people aren't that stupid.

That's what it takes to win. :toast:

[Woodstock]

104. Of the top 4, I have most reservations about Kerry

and how he will play to the sheeple.

I wish I didn't have doubts, since it seems the media/Republicans have annointed Kerry as the Democratic nominee. I'm just thinking about how he will play out in the media, once the media/Republicans have him where they want him.

As a candidate, he seems like a very well-qualified person I'd feel good about backing. I'm just thinking about the sheeple's perceptions. That's where I think Edwards & Clark have the biggest advantages - they play best on camera.

[Old and In the Way]

105. You can take it to the bank.

The SCLM will be pumping the Wurlitzer for all it's worth in this election. The short meme on each:

Kerry - Pro-War in Iraq and has Jewish hair.
Clark - Republican Lobbyist, fired General
Dean - Insane and crazy, too.
Edwards - Evil, rich trial Lawyer

They are all superbly qualified. Really, put the Dimson's biography beside each of these men and it simply is a joke.

Only in this alternate universe would a person with the following resume be considered for President:
*drunken frat boy (2 OUIs)
*AWOL'd from a cushy TANG assignment (thanks to his father's contacts),
*busted for Coke,
*documented inside trader
*stealing private land to benefit his baseball stadium.

A real history of character here :eyes:

So you are right, it becomes which will sustain the least amount of damage on a full scale media assault...and which can grab more of the undecideds, indies, and unhappy Republicans. We should choose our candidate with these criteria foremost.....

[Woodstock]

111. Whoo hoo!!! You got it!

Word for word, I bet that is on a chalkboard in Rove's office:

Kerry - Pro-War in Iraq and has Jewish hair.
Clark - Republican Lobbyist, fired General
Dean - Insane and crazy, too.
Edwards - Evil, rich trial Lawyer

I'm sorry I said anything about Kerry. I'm sick of us buying into their BULL. He's a good man and they can all go to hell.

[mitchum]

106. Hey Rip Van Winkle, those are Old Talking Points...

from a long time ago. Your compatriots have concocted brand new smears while you were asleep

[newsjunkie]

108. wow I couldnt agree more

because it's my sentiments exactly. I cant stand the guy...he is offensive to me and I'm sick of him already...he is as exiting as watching paint dry on the side of a barn. I hope we can do better than that. Fortunately we arent signed off on him yet.
Hey!I know what we should do!
Lets elect HOWARD DEAN.

[jpgpenn]

110. couldn't agree more!

:toast:

[DoNotRefill]

113. Unfortunately...

his anti-gun stance is the kiss of death everywhere except the Northeast and California...

[oasis]

114. Anti-gun? please explain.

[DoNotRefill]

116. Haven't you heard him talk about guns?

I have. He can say "I support the Second Amendment" all he wants, but that doesn't make it so. People know this, and he's gonna be SOL come election time with a big part of the 100 million legal gun owners in the country. The Second Amendment ain't about pheasant hunting, and Kerry is as "pro Second Amendment" as Josh Sugarmann.

[oasis]

117. A military hero, hunter and supporter of the 2nd amendment. Good

enough for most folks. Fity one percent is all we need.

[DoNotRefill]

118. Kerry will motivate the NRA membership to vote en masse for Bush.

that's 4 million votes. How many people normally vote in a presidential election?

Dean would NOT motivate NRA voters to vote for Bush, since his position turns gun control into a non-issue.

And Kerry is somehow supposed to be MORE electable than Dean????