An account: Wes Clark in Dallas (2.12.05)

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

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Clark in Dallas 2.11.05
By dell
Posted to dell's weblog on Sat Feb 12th, 2005 at 12:42:08 AM EST

From about 6:10 to about 8:20 tonight, Wes Clark was at the Dallas
Democratic Forum. This is a high-end group of Democratic supporters in Dallas.

The event was at the Preston Hollow home of Fred Baron. He's a toxic tort lawyer (http://www.baronandbudd.com /), and has done VERY well--the house is designed by Robert A. M. Stern, perhaps 20k sq. ft., art of museum quality, food tops etc. Its the finest home I've ever been in that is actually lived in.

Clark looked good--navy suit and tie--if a little wan. In repose, he seems greyer, even a little sad/depressed. I think Bush's re-election, against all that he knows, was a shock.

In the receiving line, I asked him why this administration doesn't do carrots. He answered that its all political--that being unilateral is perceived as stronger, and that's how they want to appear.

After everyone went through the receiving line, Clark grabbed some beef tenderloin and a bun, and then adjourned to the adjacent tent to give a speech and answer some questions. Here's the report of that. When introduced, there were a chorus of "oh eight" cheers--and he responded, laughing, saying he hadn't decided, hadn't ruled anything out and "I'm listening."



He pointed out that, with North Korea, Clinton had drawn a red-line at reprocessing the spent fuel in 94 and watched General Luck take the war plan to the White House. He stressed that "when Democrats draw a red line, they mean it."

He criticized Bush for naming Iran as part of the axis of evil, pointing out that it drove them to get a bomb. He noted that the Gulf states, during his December visit, were worried about Iran. Speaking of incipient Shia-Sunni conflict, he said he just hates it when people fight over religion. If Iran gets a bomb, the Saudis will be threatened, and are probably already dealing with the Pakistanis for nuclear matters.

Turning to the administration on foreign policy, he insisted that they had not a clue as to what to do next with/in the Middle East. He said that a large part of the reason he ran for the Presidency is that he knew Bush had failed us on 9-11. The FAA warnings showed that there was no excuse but command negligence--that there was a dereliction of duty and that was W. And then he took us to a war we did not have to fight; that was an abuse of presidential authority. We have a Commander-in-Chief who lacks strategic judgment. There is no road map for success in Iraq or the Middle East, and Bush must be held accountable (a recurring theme). And he does not see the Republicans with 08 aspirations with a road map either.

When, on election day, it looked like Kerry was winning, and cabinet speculation started, he was grieved by the very idea of a Republican for Secretary of Defense. The Democrats MUST be a full-service party--not just a party that cares for the people.

We are in Iraq, and withdrawing isn't the answer. We must define success: a stable, integral, democratizing Iraq. To achieve that will take military power, politics and diplomacy in the region. The administration has been bankrupt on diplomacy in the region--and they must be held accountable.

On terrorism, Iraq is a great training ground for the next generation of jihadists. Iran and Pakistan are still major state sponsors. Saudi Arabia is facing in incipient civil war, financed in part by Iran.

Democrats, on national security matters, have, in the Clinton administration, drawn red lines and stuck to them, using all the tools of American power, not just the military. But the Democrats must do more than address the immediate problems--they must look out 20 to 30 years, offering a security strategy that will give voters confidence in voting for them, and maken them feel safe.

There will, then, be 2 integrated markets, each bigger than the US. China and India are economic giants in the making. The question for the US: how do we guide the emergence of China into the international community, in a way that accomplishes that end and is in our interest too?

Bottom line: make Dems the full service party, so that you can trust your safety and security to Dems.

Q & A:
PNAC: After 91, recalling talk with Wolfowitz, when neo-cons realized that, with no more Soviet Union, no more Armageddon, US could actually use its mlitary might. Then, after 9-11, their agenda just plopped out there. Now we're living with their choices. Use all advantages, all aspects of American power.

Vision isn't just terror and Iraq. Dems aren't a pacifist party. Hold Bush accountable!

Against getting rid of Al-Jazeera. Beat them in the marketplace of ideas. Muslims know its biased.

Jim Wallis/moral values: http://tinyurl.com/6c7vd is in his briefcase--he's reading it. But election wasn't won/lost on "values". It was security. Didn't make the issue prominent enough, soon enough.

Korea: Bungled from the start of the administration. Then, Bush, to get political cover, begs China for its involvement. He sold out American strategic interests for politics. We should have been talking to them 1 on 1. Instead, Korea just keeps kicking us in the shins. they want to be taken seriously.

Stolen elections: As Dems, we have to get serious about education to cope with world 20-30 years out. Health care: with better leadership and administrative tools, could cut out 1/3 of the cost. Go to evidence-based medicine.

The internet(s) allow restoration of small-town American democracy--the New England town meeting nationwide.

The Bush budget is morally unconscionable.

A good appearance, a good night, a few gems (like that illusion of peace bit), a luxe setting: it could hardly have been better.

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[TheModernTerrorist]

1. I love it!

this is why I love this man, and why I voted for him. Yes, a little green when it came to "politics", but untouchable in the arena of military. And besides... at least we knew where he stood on issues, and that he wasn't much for lying. :-)

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

7. "We have a C-in-C who lacks strategic judgment." - WKC

"The FAA warnings showed that there was no excuse but command negligence--that there was a dereliction of duty and that was W. And then he took us to a war we did not have to fight; that was an abuse of presidential authority. We have a Commander-in-Chief who lacks strategic judgment."

-------------------

Clark also said this during his rally in VA before the GE's that I attended. He said, "The others (candidates) may not want to say it, ...but I'm going to say it!,...this administration could have prevented 9-11!"

[AuntiBush]

39. Impressive!

I've been thinking more about Clark, wanting to check into him a bit more. I think I just found what I was looking for. The line you quoted got my attention, for certain.

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

43. "Change Hosses!,.. or' Drown!!"

This here pirate has an'ear fer'these words! These be spoken on the same night in VA before the GE's. (btw the first "qoute" be'taken from da'1st Democratic Debates)

GW may prance around in an aircraft carrier, but if you're in the Navy and your ship runs aground in a harbor,...

You're fired!...

George Bush let this country down before 9/11! He knew it! You can see it in his eyes the first night after 9/11! He---Knew! They got the idea that they could salvage the situation by going to Iraq!...

3 years later, and this administration STILL,...does not have a winning strategy on the war on terror!

Let me put it in Texas terms,

"Change Hosses!,.. er' Drown!! -Wesley K. Clark (Socas Rally, McClean, VA. 10.20.2004).

-------------------------

[acmavm]

2. I was a Clarkie before, settled for Kerry, now back to Clark. But damn

glad to have Howard Dean as head of the DNC.

[asjr]

3. I always felt Dean and Clark would really have been

a dream team. They told the country what it needed to know and never lied about it. But anyone on the Dem ticket would have lost due to the media and the rigged machines. The machines made the difference. We are sad we didn't win, but the deck was stacked against us.

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

5. If we stick to values, strengthened by our convictions...

Congrats to the Deanies, I hope they continue to make great strides for da'Party!

And though, I'll be keeping a keen eye (eh,..that be wit'me good eye),...a-Eye! Together, the Dems can kick Neocon ass in 06, ...and certainly in 08!!

[FreedomAngel82]

12. Awesome

I love all of them. :) Mr. Clark is great. I'm glad to have him on our side. :bounce:

[Leilani]

4. Thanks for that wonderful account

Clark understands the Repubs & what they are up to.

He's right that the Dems need to take back the issue of national security. And by taking back that issue, I don't mean running on the fact that he was in the military, & a General. But running on the issues he knows better than most, because he's brilliant, & because of his experiences.

Hope somebody is listening.

[Crunchy Frog]

6. Here's another person's account, posted on a Yahoo group.

From: xxxxxxxxx@a...
Date: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:58 am
Subject: Re: Yesterday / Clark's visit to Dallas on Friday night
Hello Everyone:

I was at the Clark event last Friday night in Dallas and it was really great. I shook Clark's hand, got my picture taken with him, and got to talk with him for a moment. It was also a great reunion for the Texas Clark campaign people!

Clark gave one of the most inspiring speeches that I have ever heard in
Dallas on Friday night. He told it just like it is about Bush, foreign policy, domestic policy, a positive vision for the future, he answered good questions from people, and he also challenged the grassroots to seriously get involved in responding to the extreme right wing media which I was especially delighted to hear him say!

Clark said that it is the "duty" of the grassroots to listen to Rush Limbaugh and to people like him and to call in on their shows and challenge them once a week to hold them accountable. I was thrilled to hear him say that because I have not heard Kerry or Edwards be that specific and blunt in all of 2004 about doing that.

One of Clark's top themes was that of accountability. He was strongly for Democrats holding Bush, his cabinet, and the extreme right wing media fully accountable for their actions and behavior and being very active about doing that at the grassroots level all over the country!

Kerry would probably be President now if he could have articulated and
connected his message to the country as well as Clark did in Dallas on Friday night. Kerry never even came close to having the level of articulation, specific details, credibility, and confidence that Clark had when he talked and I am not exaggerating at all when I say that!

I sure hope that Clark decides to run again in 2008 (and I think that he probably will based on the impression that I got) because his message and vision are exactly what this country needs!

I know for sure that Clark's message, his running on the theme of Patriotism and dissent, and the way that he presents himself would go over very well with open minded swing state and red state voters!

One of Clark's best political assets is that he is able to get a wide range of support from liberals, moderates, and conservatives alike while he is just being himself. That is a rare and unique quality for someone to have in politics and Clark definitely possesses that quality in my opinion. Clark would truly unite this country and put an end to the anger and division that is hurting this country if he is the next President!

I personally think that we should be especially known for standing up to and fighting back against the extreme right wing media who will try and define Clark like they did to Kerry (and are now doing to Hillary Clinton) if they view him as being a threat to them. That is an excellent way to really help set up Clark for 2008 in my opinion!

I also think that we can help Clark set up for 2008 by spreading his message to as many people, groups, media, and blogs that we possibly can.

Many Dallas and Texas Democrats were there who were not initial Clark
supporters or Clark campaign members. I know that Clark made an excellent impression with these people. If Clark keeps doing events like this on a regular basis going forward, he will be greatly helping the grassroots and he will set himself up very well among all Democrats in the grassroots for another Presidential run in 2008!

Xxxxx Xxxxxxx

[Leilani]

8. Wonderful report, Crunchy!

Thanks!

[Crunchy Frog]

9. Hey Leilani,

it's nice to see you around again.:)

[Leilani]

17. Thanks Crunchy!

I took a long needed sabbatical from the flame wars!

[Sparkly]

11. Interesting -- a recurring theme

He seems to be repeating that we should make our voices heard -- write letters, call into talk shows, etc... It's good to know he believes it can make a difference! :)

[Leilani]

18. He's a fighter

& he wants us to fight too!

No pink tutus for Wes Clark!

[ArkySue]

13. He asks alot of us

Wes Clark is asking alot of us to say we should listen to Rush et al...that will definately be "hard work!" Not sure if I can stomach it but I, for one, will try. <shudder>

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

15. Arhh,... I can prolly liposuck that basterts,...

...belly, ....smelter it,... and still make a hearty profit! But o'coursse, ...I be a morals abiding pirate! ;)

[car54whereareyou]

48. I hope you're right, Crunchy!

He really has to get started soon if he's going to run. The sooner the better! Thanks for your story!

[Sparkly]

10. Thanks for posting this

Such a great report!! :D

[loudsue]

14. In other words, Clark DID NOT address STOLEN ELECTIONS:

"Stolen elections: As Dems, we have to get serious about education to cope with world 20-30 years out."

Look. Until the leaders, and good speakers, in our party understand what we're up against with computerized vote counting machines that can EASILY be gerrymandered (and HAVE been), we're NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER going to win another election in this country!

Period!

Someone needs to get the election fraud information into Clark's hands.

:kick::kick::kick:

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

16. I agree, but imo, he was ascertaining the significance of the problem,..

So in the very least, this process can start by holding these "leaders" accountable. This value must resonate through the "consciousness" of our voters against everyone who feeds our culture of ignorance or those who support act on faith over FACTS! Only then can they begin to reconcile the intent by the neocons who betray America's trust.

[loudsue]

20. Don't get me wrong. I love the General.

:loveya: I really do respect him. It's just that he's SUCH a good person, that it's really hard for him to conceive of the problem we've been handed...hard for him to wrap his brains around the fact that this mob has a REAL conspiracy going on with the voting machines and vote counting.

But SOMEONE needs to sit the general down and clue him in as to the research. And then, he needs to help us!

:kick:

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

22. Imo, Dean will be in the forefront in this issue.

When he hosted MsNBC McEnroe series, Dean's guest Bev Harris clearly demonstrated the problem... A strategy here will require a coordinated effort to make even the blue states like MD from even using tthese machines. Our own party even refuses to ban it's use due to lucrative exchange of favors and/or percieved costs in savings,...that hurt the Party in the long run

[capi888]

23. Wes knows, as every prospective Dem Candidate does!

My opinion is that until Arnebeck, Conyers, and the others bring this to the Federal courts, with "HARD EVIDENCE" not ANY prospective candidate for 2008 will elaborate on the election fraud. There is alot going on behind the scenes, that the public is not aware of, including us. Also, I am sure Dean as Chair of the Dem Party will be very active in leading the party toward resolving the fraud that led to the election of the present Commander in Chief. (I can hardly say his name) This election fraud is not going away. When "hard evidence" happens, it will be heard all over the world, then the leaders in the Party will speak out...

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

24. Our Dem leaders shy away from the Party's value to defend Truth

Clark made this remark during the 1st Democratic Primary debates, while all the other candidates shy'd away from "debating" or "discussing" issue.

"...This administration's preemptive doctrine is CAUSING North Korea and Iran to ACCELERATE their nuclear weapons development. Now there are some of us who aren't in Washington right now, but I'd like to ask all those who are...lets see some leadership in the United States Congress. Let's see you take apart that doctrine of preemption NOW. I don't think we can wait until November 2004 to change the administration on this threat. We're marching into another military campaign in the Middle East. We need to stop it." --Wesley Clark

The Dems needs someone as provocative and engaging as Clark and Dean to defend the issues that present the truth and strengths of our Party.

[Nothing Without Hope]

36. I really hope you're right on all counts. And try calling him the blivet**

This descriptive noun fits him miraculously well.

"Blivet" is an old military and computer engineering term, the two ** are for the two stolen elections of course. Read the whole thing, including the delicious dictionary meanings of "blivet" (I really don't want to spoil it for you by giving them here) and 10 reasons why the term is so perfect for the one in the White House, in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1518177

I introduced "blivet**" because I couldn't stand to say or speak his real name either. Once you read the reasons for calling hiim by this term, I guarantee at least a laugh and maybe even a leaning to using it yourself. He has earned every one of the 10 reasons in the linked thread and all of the dictionary meanings of the word.

[Clark2008]

42. BTW, I liked what you told me on the KOEB thread

that Texans were expected to be "cool" toward the General, but he ended up "Wowing" them with his speech.
I love it when people actual get to hear (and LISTEN to) Clark. They always end up loving him. :) This is why, I think, the media blackballed coverage. He's so reasonable, cognitive and speaks with the people and not to them. He can speak to the values of most Americans with a patriot's heart and a masterful mind. Can't have that against blivet, now can we?

[Nothing Without Hope]

52. Poor lil chimpy would look and act so pathetically next to Clark

They couldn't have that, could they? Absolutely no one could possibly respect the self-described "war president" with his pseudo-military dictator duds and his prompting through the "bulge" transmitter when he was seen side by side with the real thing.

I'm really glad to see Clark out and working and like what he was saying in his speech. It's what needs to be shouted until there's no hiding it even with the Kool Aid vendors doing their worst.

[ZootSuitGringo]

19. I think that he did address the stolen elections.

The media stole these elections probably more than the machines did. You see, the media is the one that controls the voters and is the one that controls the missing outrage with the machines. If we fight the media and make a dent, the rest will come naturally.

Without the media falling in the line where it should be, even if the voting apparatus is fixed, we will still lose.

It's the media, stupid (no, not you).

[loudsue]

31. The media is certainly complicit!

But, I think that we won't be able to take care of the media UNTIL we take care of the voting machine issue, because those in power APPOINT the FCC, which regulates the media. Right now, the media IS the republican party... so first, we have to destroy the republican party advantage, and we can't do that without the vote.

That's why it's really important for us bloggers to get the word out on our own...we can't expect the republicans (media) to do it, because they have that vested interest to keep things like they are. We're the media now.

By the way... :hi::toast::beer: WELCOME TO DU!! :hi::bounce::party:

:kick::kick::kick:

[lyonn]

49. The MSM is as scary as Bush

They hammered Clinton, left no story untold. The only real coverage the media gave the Dem. candidates was negative, and boy did they hammer it. Swift Boats a great example, also the scream. Gawd I got in quite a state evertime the media analysed our Dems yet let Bush get by with his "misspeak". Sometimes I feel we are screwed no matter which way we go. Dean/Clark was my dream. How could the media hammer a team that covered the homefront AND military/security?

[julibriggs]

21. Stolen Elections

I will volunteer to do this, as I have been an expert on computerized tallying systems and their foibles as far back as 1988. And I'm very active in verifiedvoting.org and went to DC to lobby for them last April.

So, I'll begin to put a packet together, and also will work to get the General in touch with the most knowledgeable journalist in the U.S. on this topic.

[loudsue]

27. Thanks, Juli! And WELCOME TO DU!! WE'RE GLAD YOU'RE HERE!

:hi::toast::beer: Thanks for joining! :party::beer::hi:

verifiedvoting.org is a wonderful organization, and I fully support their efforts. There is so much work to do on this issue, and so little time before the 2006 elections. Frankly, I fully expect 2006 to be stolen, as well. After all, the republicans have already said that they will have a filibuster-proof congress in 2006. You can believe they mean it, and KNOW they will.

I appreciate you offering to provide Clark with the information. He's a really good man, and in his hands, I hope that something will be said publicly, in the way the General does it best: straight and to the point, with enough charm to melt chocolate!

:kick::kick::kick:

[Texas_Kat]

25. Stolen elections:... the poster did not transcribe the complete text

of what Clark had to say about the elections.

He is quite aware of the issues in the 2004 election (and being highly technologically aware) he's probably got a deeper personal understanding of it than most candidates.

We'll have a more complete report of what he said in a few days.

[loudsue]

28. Thanks Kat!

I look forward to the report! Can you post it on DU when you get it?

This is the first time I've seen you around!

:hi::toast::beer: Welcome to DU! :hi::party::silly:

:kick:

[JNelson6563]

33. I hope so

I hate to see emotions assigned to a public figure without quotes to accompany. Look forward to a transcript or something, sounds like a fine speech.

Julie

[CarolNYC]

37. thanks Kat...

I thought there was actually more to the question/answer sequence than what was posted....although I wasn't there .

[Lena inRI]

26. Agreed 100% loudsue. . .

however Clark's not "addressing stolen elections" does not mean he hasn't seen election fraud information. Non sequitur.

As a matter of fact, I can assure you Clark's analytical mind has already made suggestions on strategy for Dems to follow, particularly for Senators/Reps who should propose bills/amendments or grassroots election watchdogs trying to ban or reform e-voting. . .down to tactical levels.

Take a look at his position papers from 2004 and you'll get a good idea of his synthesizing, analytical mind: http://clark04.com/issues/

Last Friday in Dallas, Clark had much on his plate to digest. . .so you'll be hearing from him on election fraud without pulling any punches.

"If you can do good, you should." Wesley Clark
:thumbsup:

[loudsue]

29. Yep...Clark's mind is ....well, it's amazing!

And he articulates things so very well. I'm a fan, and I'm real familiar with his position papers...have been since the primaries.

By the way,

:hi::toast::beer: Welcome to DU! We've got some really good, knowledgeable newbies coming in here! YAY!! :bounce: :hi::beer::toast:

:kick::kick::kick:

[Adelante]

32. I'm just not sure

There looks to be a disconnect between "Stolen elections" and the following sentence. I wasn't there and didn't hear him, so I can't be sure what he was saying there. Perhaps the person taking notes or someone who was present can tell us more, if they come into the thread.

In any case, Clark has been deeply angry about election fraud since 2000, and he spoke out forcefully before and after the '04 election for 100% transparency, standardizing the process nationwide, and making sure the machinery operates fairly. I also know a Clark supporter who is deep into Black Box research has been in touch with Clark and his staff. So, he is certainly aware.

But at this particular event, I dunno if he said anything about it. Of course, he can't say absolutely everything in every single speech, but we can let him know how important we feel it is he address this whenever he can. I do feel this is something Dean can push with all party leaders as chair and I hope he does.

[Maestro]

30. Great report

and as a Texan I am very glad to see national Dems supporting this state. We are not a lost state. We need more national Democratic support than ever to turn the poisonous tide of freeper thinking in which we find ourselves.

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

34. Today, Clark reiterated some of these remarks on CNN

Clark appeared on Inside Politics w/Wolfe Blitzer:

As always, Clark's appearances and statements can be viewed and downloaded at http://www.u-wes-a.com/mediaclips-post.html

He also indicated he is working in the private sector, yet enjoys every opportunity to address issues on national security and foreign policy, esp on behalf of the Democratic Party...

[Gloria]

38. He certainly did! His positions are being pulled into greater focus as

he links N. Korea and Iran as part and parcel of the same failed policies. Clark was sharp as a tack today with Wolfie. Awesome. Be still my heart...

[geniph]

35. God, this hurts, every time I read something like this

because I am 100% convinced the outcome on November 2nd would have been very different had the ticket been Kerry-Clark. Nothing against Edwards, but I think that would have been a much stronger ticket with those uneasy about the whole "wartime President" thing.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

41. ditto - he could have held his own better w/Cheney in debate

But, on the hand, I would rather have had it the other way around - Clark-Kerry

[Clark2008]

40. Thanks for posting this!

I really miss you all since the blog is down.
This makes me feel at home.

Is this my Knight in shining armor? :)

[CarolNYC]

44. Clark on Dean

Little blurb from The Dallas Morning News columnist:

Retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark was in town Friday for a gathering of the Dallas Democratic Forum.

Gen. Clark told me that he was optimistic about the prospects of former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean reshaping the Democratic Party.

Some Republicans have mocked the choice of Dr. Dean as chairman of the Democratic National Committee because his presidential campaign appealed to liberals.

"Democrats have to give him a chance," Gen. Clark said.

He offered advice for his former rival in last year's Democratic presidential primaries.

"We have to be a full-service party," he said. "And you have to have a vision of how to protect the country and America's security."

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/localnews/columnists/gjeffers/stories/021505dnmetjeffers.22d66.html

[Clark2008]

45. Good. Now maybe some of the fights between supporters of each

will stop.
Dean's said we need to pay attention to national security as a party and now, Clark's saying we should give Dean a chance, while echoing the security statements.
Get us grassrooters together and the Republicans won't know what hit 'em.

[Leilani]

50. Wes Clark Jr posted here recently

& said the in-fighting between Clark & Dean was a bunch of garbage.

All the problems come from a few flamers & some Freeper plants.

[Dread Pirate KR Read]

51. Flamers and Freepers...be damned!

In truth, they be Ste(i)ffen around for Dick, proclaiming, "Gannock yer'self", to democracy, as well!

Aiye,...they be Erlich's pimps and Bushie's Master-baiters,...

neocons prancing in their underalls, stitched of the finest linens,...but torn from our American flags!

Aiye, I smells,...a Rove;...and they who rot this country to its core!!

Neocons be scallywags,...traitors all!

[oasis]

46. Bush's "command negligence" was a "dereliction of duty" on 9/11. Clark

is tellin' it like it is. He always has.

Good report.

[car54whereareyou]

47. Republican Secretary of Defense

McCain? Was Kerry planning to make McCain Secretary of Defense? If so, I think Kerry would have been a really lousy president.