Does Bush want to fix Soc Sec? Or does he want to raise Taxes?

[cthrumatrix]

Look at the quotes from Frist and Hastert. These clown would never say a negative word vs Bush. Bush also came out on Saturday and said he would "raise taxes" to fix the problem.

I think we are being played like a violin. This is a "classic Rove strategy" -- save Soc Sec by raising taxes -- something he could never say in the presidential campaign!

link: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=ay5...

<snip>

Feb. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Senate Majority Leader Republican Bill Frist said President George W. Bush still has ``a long way to go,'' to win public backing for his proposal to revamp the Social Security program.

``I agree wholeheartedly you can't jam change down the throat of the American people,'' Frist said on ``Fox News Sunday.'' ``We need to first make sure the American people understand there's a problem, engage the American people.''

Frist is the second Republican congressional leader to suggest the president still hasn't sold the public on the idea of letting younger workers divert some of their Social Security payroll taxes into private accounts invested in stocks and bonds. House Speaker Dennis Hastert of Illinois told the Chicago Tribune in an interview published yesterday that the voters won't accept the change ``unless they perceive there really is a problem.''

[chicagojoe]

1. This whole SS B.S. is an attempt to

make the upcoming tax increases look loke they're needed to "fix" social security.
The Radical Right will stop at nothing to keep the rich wealthy, and keep the poor right where they want 'em.

[cthrumatrix]

2. totally agree...look at what bush said this weekend (it's all about taxes)

As I shared weeks ago....this "private account stuff" is a SCAM --- the main goal always was "MORE MONEY". He is using Soc Sec "crisis" for a TAX INCREASE.

The US Budget Deficit, defense spending etc... require more $$$$. bush needs more money.

Read below

Bush warns of harsh choices if Social Security plan not approved

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Bush warned Saturday that if Congress does not act now to overhaul Social Security, the choices ahead will be harsh and painful. He repeated his call to add private accounts to the system.
As he has in visits to eight states, Bush emphasized in his weekly radio address that the system will soon run short of money, with more going out to pay benefits than is collected in taxes.

"If we do not act now to avert that outcome, the only solutions would be dramatically higher taxes, massive new borrowing or sudden and severe cuts in Social Security benefits or other government programs," he said.

snip

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-02-12-bush...

[w4rma]

3. No. They want to destroy social security. They've been trying to do it

since the 1930's. Anything else that happens is just a spin off from their attempts to destroy the program.

Keep it simple and don't look too hard for crazy plans that noone can keep track of.

[CornField]

10. Agreed -- they have been looking for a way to destroy the New Deal

since it began.

[cthrumatrix]

11. not true - they have been "using the proceeds from Soc Sec" every year

it's all about cash flow.... they are using $114B from soc sec surplus for 2005 budget.

A raise in taxes to "save soc sec" is just another scam.

[chicagojoe]

4. Hastert will have his ASS handed to him

in his District if he is part of an unpopular move with social security. I live in his District. This area is filled with folks who are now living on SS benefits, and folks who are at the leading edge of the huge "baby boomer retirement" that is coming up. This is his BASE. If he pisses THEM off, along with the older Dems, he's FINISHED.

Also-- from what I hear, even from R's in my neighborhood, Hastert wouldn't be so popular here if he weren't so highly placed in DC.
His position, and the clout that comes with it, help Hastert bring home the pork.

[FormerDittoHead]

5. He wants to reduce benefits toward crushing the whole thing

Bush will NEVER support raising taxes.

Increasing the deficit / debt is OK, which IN EFFECT raises taxes on the lower classes (as they eventually must be paid), but I simply see him as being too egotistical to allow any tax "increase", esp after the "read my lips" legacy his father still suffers from.

He is ALL FOR lowering SS Benefits by 40% right up front, however, by indexing to prices rather than wages, and that would be for starters including raising the retirement age (he remarked how much longer we're living) and means testing.

Remember too, that the OTHER "agenda" is to funnel TRILLIONS of our dollars into the hands of investment bankers and stock brokerage houses (usually one in the same) in the effort to gain what is *hoped* to be a minor increase in return in exchange for a MASSIVE increase in risk. Please remember that ALL FUNDAMENTAL ANALYSIS of the stock market reflects that it is CURRENTLY oversold and so we'd be paying too much for that stock from the get-go.

Americans like to play the lottery, however. They don't understand how risk effects return. As such, he's been able to sell this plan so far.

I don't believe any Senator will want to touch it with a 10 foot pole unless they're given an iron-clad golden parachute job by a brokerage house when they get voted out in a landslide...

Too bad those kinds of deals go on so frequently.

[cthrumatrix]

6. read what HE said "raise taxes"

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Bush warned Saturday that if Congress does not act now to overhaul Social Security, the choices ahead will be harsh and painful. He repeated his call to add private accounts to the system.
As he has in visits to eight states, Bush emphasized in his weekly radio address that the system will soon run short of money, with more going out to pay benefits than is collected in taxes.

"If we do not act now to avert that outcome, the only solutions would be dramatically higher taxes, massive new borrowing or sudden and severe cuts in Social Security benefits or other government programs," he said.

snip

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-02-12-bush ...

[FormerDittoHead]

7. I read it, you're inferring something he's not implying...

You infer that HE will raise taxes. I read the sentence. He doesn't say that. You have to emphasize the word "now" to understand what he said.

Reread the sentence with this in mind: The *point* of the sentence is not that HE will raise taxes, etc, but rather, the time to do something about S.S. is NOW rather than later, when a tax increase would be among "the only solutions". It's quite clear.

PLEASE understand I'm not defending him, it's just that raising taxes (during his administration) has NEVER been a proposal, and in fact, he FLATLY said he wouldn't support any tax increases (during his administration) to handle this social security 'crisis'...

AGAIN, by NOT raising taxes, and financing his proposals through deficit spending, he IS raising taxes, but not DIRECTLY, nor during his administration. It's a con job, yes. Taxes WILL need to be raised if his proposal goes through, YES. But he is NOT SUGGESTING a tax increase as you have inferred.

[cthrumatrix]

8. my opinion ...this is Reagan part II when he raised taxes second term

let's watch how this plays out.

Thanks for your views

[FormerDittoHead]

9. But he IS ALREADY raising taxes via the AMT (link)

Under his term I tax packages, the Alternative minimum tax will apply to more and more people, who will end up paying a higher and higher taxrate.

It's a little complicated, however, so the (bulk of the) MSM and Joe Public have overlooked it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4660655/
"Behind the promises to save you money, a hidden agenda is at work, with a stealth tax to pay for it all..."

Of course, the already-wealthy need not fear these increases...

[Cats Against Frist]

16. I agree - it could easily be seen as something to

whip up people -- like -- wow, we'd better vote for the destruction of SS now, before we get our taxes raised.

That's what it sounds like to me. THOUGH, I am waiting for the tax increase and the excuse they will give. Personally -- I'm betting on "supporting the troops," which was what the Democrats screamed all through campaign season.

[sadiesworld]

12. When this started, * said he was open to any ideas on how to

save SS EXCEPT raising the payroll tax. Yup, he wants to raise the tax--just doesn't want to take the fall for it. He can be pretty obvious at times.

[Festivito]

13. Destroy SS, destroy Democracy, turn US into war bodied trubute payers.

The borrowing being done now, sending the proceeds to the rich is what is destroying SS. The destruction will be completed later, when the interest payments cannot be made while repaying SS the money we borrow today.

As our economy worsens, the only available good jobs for many will be in the military, the rest can die.

The government so strapped will only function to pay the debt interest (tribute to the rich) and to stop the voters from stopping wars. After all wars are what give us our economy, at least by then that will be true.

A democracy with no available money won't be able to accomplish anything of importance. The rich will thrive anyway.

[cthrumatrix]

14. well well.... look at another story coming out --- here comes a tax incr.

all to save soc sec....the scam is on!

[FormerDittoHead]

15. I WAS WRONG!!! BUSH WILLING TO RAISE SS TAXES!!!

flip, flop! flip, flop! flip, flop! flip, flop! flip, flop!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4804677,00.html