Blaming Micheal Moore

[erpowers]

After the election some people began to blame Micheal Moore for John Kerry's lose. Yesterday I saw an article that questioned whether liberals/Democrats should distance themselves from Micheal Moore. I do not think Democrats should distance themselves from Micheal Moore. I do not think he is the reason John Kerry lost in the election.

[Dogmudgeon]

1. Democrats should distance themselves from cowardice

Who the f**k are "they" (the Commentariat, no doubt) to tell me who to listen to and how much creedence to give him?

--p!

[tinanator]

2. theyre not blaming MM

theyre assassinating him.

[tinanator]

3. interesting account re Oscars

http://www.sacredcow.com/allnew/index_content.php?n=news_michaelmoore

[Vickers]

4. RWers are skeered of MM, which is why we should embrace him

MM didn't sway the election as much as an ill-informed (and truly a MISinformed) electorate.

He is trying to change that, and it scares the shit out of RW scumbag Constitution-hating shithead neocons.

[rocktivity]

5. How predictable

You can bet a conservative/Republican wrote that article. He or she should be more concerned with distancing themselves from Jeff Gannon.

:boring:
rocknation

[fasttense]

6. It is sooo obvious this is a Repuke thought bomb.

Repukes keep trying to infiltrated the Dem party in order to ensure their cheating ways are not attacked. They drop little gems like this every now and then in order to get us to attack each other.

The reason we lost the election has nothing to do with Michael Moore. The reason we lost is because Repukes and their machines counted the votes. The reason we lost is sooo obvious, so blatant, so evident if you would take a minute and do some research, the numbers are clear.
The Repukes cheated and the best cheaters won. Michael Moore had nothing to do with it.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

7. No good deed goes unpunished...

Michael is learning that now after putting in thousands of grueling hours traveling the country to inspire young people to vote. And not just vote for Kerry, but to vote, period.

[moez]

15. Um....

Michael was VERY well paid for his "good deed" ...

[primavera]

17. If money were his motivation as you suggest...

... he wouldn't give as much of it back to support progressive causes as he does. Sales of books and movie receipts generate income, no matter how altrusistic the motivations of the author might be. That's a fact over which he has little control. What he does have control over is how much of that money goes back into the causes we're fighting for and, in that regard, I believe you will find little grounds for fault in Michael.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

18. hmmmm

it was my understanding that his appearances were free, only taking in the money necessary to pay for the auditorium expenses, etc. It was also mentioned that MM didn't accept any fees for this and paid a lot out of his own pocket. Granted, it was free publicity for his movie and books, like he needed that.

[moez]

25. Uh...no....

He made $40,000 or more for speaking at the universities.

His message is fine. However, he cares much more for Michael Moore than he does for anything else....

[Bridget Burke]

28. The only fees I've seen are less than $40,000.

And he's been know to speak for free.

Edited to add a link to a free appearance: http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/10/05_ap_moore/

Why do you hate Capitalism?

[livinginphotographs]

29. So the guy is well-compensated. So?

You think Rush Limbaugh works for free? And the only causes he contributes to are his local oxycontin dealer.

[Wickerman]

8. I think Mike woke a lot of people up, atcually

many who wouldn't have voted, many who had not connected the dots. Had Mike not released F/9-11 it might not have been as close as it got. Mike gave a lot of people a feeling of hope and united many who otherwise thought they were the only ones who were seeing what was going on through a lens different than others. Let's not slime the man - he did some serious good.

[ebayfool]

19. Yes, he did. I have always been a dem, MM/F9-11 made me a pissed off,

more inquisitive, more activist dem. If not for the man's good work, there would have been a few less dem voters last cycle - I was much less shy @ political arguments after the emotional shake up I got from seeing F9-11. He gut punches w/his movies, that's why the right is terrified of him & keep trying to marginalize him.

Anyone that can provoke the emotion (on both sides) that MM can is doing something right - waking up the desensitized & unaware, bringing more opinion to the debate - I love the guy!

[Goblinmonger]

9. Calling Bullshit

I appreciate Michael Moore because he is one of the few people that have had the brass ones to actually stand up and call bullshit on Bush and company. We need more people like that in this country.

[Goldeneye]

10. I think we should start listening to unnamed commentators.

Get rid of Michael Moored, drop Dean and Kerry and Hillary and Reid. We should change our stance on abortion, education, the environment too. I bet Novak would give us a few pointers.

These losers are just scared of what a few outspoken people like MM will do. I'd bet the number of votes MM brought in far outweighed the votes we lost because of him. 2 of my friends site F 9-11 as part of the reason they voted at all, and they weren't voting for Bush.

[karynnj]

11. I think that Kerry did (and should have) distanced himself from MM

Michael Moore as an entertainer/ documenter/ non elected person (whatever he is)- performs a very different function than a candidate does. MM can make connect the dots type statements (that people may buy or not), but a Presidential candidate would be savaged if he came close to doing this.

I think that F911 may have energized some people to vote, but I think in general there was a lot of self selection, where the audience came in hating Bush. When it first came out, I went to a social group (Jewish women) where among other things we talked about the movie. This group was 100% pro-Kerry, but there were some who were offended by the tone and were really uneasy with the Bush/Bin Laden connection parts. A bit too much guilt by association. My point is not to get into an argument on the veracity of that part, but to point out that this charge is so serious, it needs serious substantial proof - that is not contained in the fairly snarky comments.

If a group of liberal, New York City area Reconstructionist Jews who were already anti-Bush reacted this way, I would assume that some portion of the more conservative heartland would too. I do think the film had an indirect effect as the media brought up Bush reading in the school after the film showed it.

Kerry played it as well as he could by simply answering that he didn't see it. Kerry did not have much use for the Abbie Hoffmans of the 60s and its possible that he felt the same about MM. But if he criticized MM, a sistah soulja moment - there was danger of it seeming like he felt all of the criticism was unfair. Being more supportive of MM would have led to him being blamed for any parts of the movie MM felt were unfair. Remember that as it was some polls actually showed a higher % of people thinking Kerry was more quilt of negative campaigning as Bush - in spite of Kerry running a very clean campaign.

[MadHound]

16. Well, living in the land of heartland conservatives

I can assure you that Moore and F911 actually had a very positive effect on people's opinions. An example:

The first time I went and saw F911 I was in line in front of a couple of typical midwest moms, 'burbanites, center to right leaning in politics, who had voted Bush in '00. Yet they were intelligent, and searching for the truth that lies beyond the MSM. So they came out for F911, and for one of them, it was the only movie she had gone to a theater to see in four years.

After the film, I noticed that there was a Democratic campaign worker outside the theatre, working the crowd for donations and support. Suprise, suprise, these two midwest moms were huddled around this guy, getting out their wallets, and signing up to work on the Kerry campaign, all the while cussing out Bush. Amazing what two hours of truth will do to a person.

We shouldn't shun Michael Moore, he is one of the few people who can break through the stranglehold that the MSM has on this country and get the truth out to the masses. Yes, that truth can be uncomfortable sometimes, but living with a lie is eventually deadly.

[KurtNYC]

12. Let 1,000 Michael Moores bloom!

[DemocracyInaction]

13. Honey, there is now a full court press on because of his next

project.....the Drug Companies!!! They desperately need to destroy Moore. I feel sorry for him because I'll bet you anything something very bad is going to happen to Michael. They are going to try to get him on some income tax thing, or try to paint him as some sexual deviate, or a spy for N. Korea, or bin Laden who ate too many McD's burgers to disguse himself,..........you get the picture. I truly am afraid for his life because all they would have to do is pass off any attack on him as by some Christian right loonie. God protect him.

[global1]

14. I Posted This Last Night - Don't Think Many Caught It - Here's My Theory..

Scarborough had a piece on last night that dissed MM.

With The Potential of the Revelation of 52 pre-911 Warnings becoming news Michael Moore's F911 will take on a whole new life. Maybe some of those Repugs that refused to look at it before the election the first time it came around - will have a change of heart now. Scarborough and all the other Repug pundits will come out and start the discrediting of the documentary to minimize the damage that could be done if some Repugs start to see F911 and start asking the same questions we've been asking since 911.

What Scarborough is doing is pre-emptive damage control.

Why will the Repugs entertain viewing F911 this time? Well - look what's happened since the election. A SS looting by *Co. The phony budget. Rice, Gonzales, Negroponte. Saber rattling over Syria/Iran. Possibility of a Draft. Iraqmire. Gannon. 52 pre 911 warnings. Report ready in August - held off until after Nov 2 and worse yet after Jan 26 so Condi could get confirmed for SOS.

Need I go on. Many Repugs are beginning to think they were hoodwinked and betrayed. They will want to see for themselves now what they should have taken the time to see before the election.

[ewagner]

21. IMO Good Call

When is saw the MSNBC promo for Scarborough's show last night, I thought that the dissing of MM was out of context and totally "off the wall".

But I think you're right...Scarborough has his talking points and is launching a pre-emptive strike against MM......

now we need to "pre-empt the pre-emptive strike"....not sure how to do it.

[Al-CIAda]

20. I'd like to distance myself from the fucking COWARDS in the Dem party

who repeat these right wing assasinations.

[Bridget Burke]

22. Whenever Right Wing Nuts warn Democrats about something...

We need to do the exact opposite. As already pointed out, Mike is already working on his next film--about Big Pharm. There's lots of money against him--"journalists" have been selling themselves for a long time.

And Fahrenheit 9/11 remains relevant--& quite popular.

Interesting that MM's critics can't decide whether he's a wild-eyed radical or only in it for the money. How can you be both?

[twenty2strings]

23. Yeah,lets punish patriotism...Hmmm...

I love Michael Moore. They hate him. That's good. What, may I ask do we have to lose.:grouphug:

[fishwax]

24. yeah, we should shun anyone who hurts the feelings of the GOP

particularly if they insist on exposing truths that the mainstream media chooses to ignore. And if they put out movies that energize our base and rake in millions at the box office? How dare they? </sarcasm>

I agree with you. We shouldn't blame Michael Moore. Anyone who thinks we should is either horribly misreading the political text of the last four years or is simply a republican operative trying to sew dischord among the democrats.

[KissMeKate]

26. if Dems distanced themselves any more from Moore, we would be on saturn

eom

[LittleClarkie]

27. but neither is he St. Michael

It all figures in. He helped with F 9/11. He didn't help if some of it wasn't factual.

He helped get the word out on Bush. The ABB negativity in some ways didn't help.

He helped in that he was a good general who bolstered the morale of the troops. He didn't help in some ways because he'd been a Nader guy before and criticizing the Dems. It's hard to sell yourself as part of a group you were criticizing from the outside at one point.

He helped. He hurt. He's part of why Kerry got so many votes. And if you're not a fraud person, he's also part of why Kerry lost.

Running against someone doesn't always work terribly well. Ask Dole.